Cubsrule
Topic Author
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FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:33 pm

(Fair use excerpt)

Quote:
In an about-face, the Federal Aviation Administration said Friday that a 3-year-old cap on flights into O'Hare International Airport won't be lifted in November 2008, when the first new runway is scheduled to open.

The rest is at http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel...443834.story?coll=chi_breaking_500 (sorry, registration required).

The FAA had said that it would permit 10 more flights hourly when the new runway opened. Apparently they've changed their mind.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:56 pm

Probably a good decision on the FAA's part, although it does seem a bit unfair to the airport authority.

Maybe the FAA will reconsider after they see the considerable reduction in delays.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
The FAA had said that it would permit 10 more flights hourly when the new runway opened. Apparently they've changed their mind.

That is probably the best thing the FAA has done in a while. It would be silly not to allow this added runway to absorb some of the delay issues before adding more flights.
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highliner2
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:38 pm

Agreed, fix the problem and then revaluate.
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airportplan
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:18 am

Most likely the City of Chicago Department of Aviaiton, the airlines and the FAA will negociate a higher arrival and departure rate cap as an intim measure until additonal new runways come online. The current rate is 89 so I'm guessing that the rate that is settled on will be around 100 ops per hour.
 
HPAEAA
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting Airportplan (Reply 4):
Most likely the City of Chicago Department of Aviaiton, the airlines and the FAA will negociate a higher arrival and departure rate cap as an intim measure until additonal new runways come online. The current rate is 89 so I'm guessing that the rate that is settled on will be around 100 ops per hour.

I hope not, flying Via ORD is miserable enough... let's prove that it can operate ontime the majority of the time before we raise the caps... this is the right call imho
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contrails
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Thread starter):
In an about-face, the Federal Aviation Administration said Friday that a 3-year-old cap on flights into O'Hare International Airport won't be lifted in November 2008, when the first new runway is scheduled to open.

Someone please bring me up to date. I thought the new runway construction was being held up with legal proceedings by the NIMBY crowd.

Have I missed something?
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apodino
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 6):
Someone please bring me up to date. I thought the new runway construction was being held up with legal proceedings by the NIMBY crowd.

Have I missed something?

In a nutshell yes. Construction has already started on the new 9L-27R, and the runway should be operational by the end of 2008. Also work is underway to lengthen runway 10-28 (The former 9R-27L) to about 13000 feet, which would allow
that runway to be used for Japan departures and possibly allow 32L to be shortened to 8800 feet, which is what it is now from the T10 intersection.

The 9L-27R construction can be seen on the right side of the airplane on takeoff from 32L or on a 22R landing. It can be seen from the Left side on a 14R landing or a 4L takeoff.
 
airportplan
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:20 pm

The FAA has already soften it stance. The FAA had to. The new runways are paid for with PFC revenue that is generated from additional traffic. The FAA approved this payment plan. Now the FAA has a choice. They can raise the cap at least slightly or they can write a check for a billion or so to the City of Chicago to pay the difference. They will raise the cap, most likely in phases as new runways come online.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel...681238.story?coll=chi_tab01_layout

[Edited 2007-11-11 06:21:16]
 
flightopsguy
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:33 pm

The 32's eventually will be taken out of commission. The new 9L opens in Nov. 2008.
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Tango-Bravo
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 1):
Maybe the FAA will reconsider after they see the considerable reduction in delays.

So long as the cap on flight movements remains in effect, delays should indeed be reduced, but only because of the additional runway capacity plus the cap. Given past, present and foreseeable future behavior of the legacy airlines, if/when the cap is lifted, there is little doubt they will almost immediately clog the "new improved" ORD by expanding on their practice of replacing 1 mainline movement with 2-3 RJ movements, putting ORD right back to its "delays 'r us" status along with the RJ-beseiged NYC area airports.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 8):
The FAA has already soften it stance. The FAA had to.

I think you're right, and it's interesting what a little bit of behind the scenes lobbying can do. We can hate on Mayor Daley all we want for what he did to CGX (and most of it is justified), but his leadership on ORD and MDW has been visionary. MDW has been transformed from a dump into one of the nicest passenger experiences in the country, and ORD is slowly improving as well.

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 10):
Given past, present and foreseeable future behavior of the legacy airlines, if/when the cap is lifted, there is little doubt they will almost immediately clog the "new improved" ORD by expanding on their practice of replacing 1 mainline movement with 2-3 RJ movements, putting ORD right back to its "delays 'r us"

I'm actually not so sure. UA is flying some BIG narrowbodies on some short routes, to places like CLE, OMA, and DSM. They're not going to replace a 75 with 3 RJs just because they can, and AA's pilot issues are such that there's not going to be a whole lot of MQ expansion at ORD (or anywhere else) in the foreseeable future.
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airportplan
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
I'm actually not so sure. UA is flying some BIG narrowbodies on some short routes, to places like CLE, OMA, and DSM. They're not going to replace a 75 with 3 RJs just because they can, and AA's pilot issues are such that there's not going to be a whole lot of MQ expansion at ORD (or anywhere else) in the foreseeable future.

I agree with you. Because of fuel prices you will soon begin to see upgauging and a reduction in frequency to high frequency markets and even some small markets. At ORD during the past couple of years UA Express has already converted many of its CRJ flights to E70s or CRJ-700. AA Express would convert more but because of the piliot issue that you mentioned they don't have the aircraft. They also don't have enough gates with the right depth at G concourse (AA RJ Concourse).
 
Cubsrule
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 12):
They also don't have enough gates with the right depth at G concourse (AA RJ Concourse).

I suspect in the not so distant future we'll see further MQ 'encroachment' into H and K; the utilization on G is significantly higher than mainline gates, some of which will sit open (or with a 'resting' airplane) for hours at a time.

Quoting AirportPlan (Reply 12):
At ORD during the past couple of years UA Express has already converted many of its CRJ flights to E70s or CRJ-700

Perhaps more than any other carrier, UA is over the 50 seat jet because it has realized that it can significantly improve revenue with the Ex-Plus product. A change from a regular CRJ to an Ex-Plus CR7 or 170 is only a gain of 16-20 seats, but the revenue potential is much higher.
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contrails
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RE: FAA To Keep ORD Restrictions

Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 7):
Construction has already started on the new 9L-27R, and the runway should be operational by the end of 2008

Thanks, Apodino. I haven't been through ORD in a while and I must have missed the posts here about it.
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