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Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:03 am

Emirates today announced the largest Order / Commitment to date for the A350XWB and in addition increased their firm orders for the A380 to 58 frames.

This is an order / commitment of magnitude which warrants it's own thread so as to not overwhelm the Official Dubai 2007 Airshow: Airbus Thread

The order was announced at the Dubai Air Show by Emirates Chairman Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al-Maktoum and initial reports state the following;

3 x A380 Firm new orders
8 x A380 Commitment made at Le Bourget 2007 firmed.

70 x A350 Firm Orders ( Currently MoU until appears on Airbus O&D Spreadsheet )
50 x A350 Options

This takes total A350 LoI, MoU, Commitments and Firm orders to over 300.

Emirates also announced an order for 12 further 777-300ERs

This leaves much to be discussed once more details become available;

1: What is the breakdown of the 70 firm A350XWB orders? Primarily -1000s?

2: What variants do the Options cover?

3: When is the delivery schedule expected to commence and what will these replace in the fleet.

4: What influence on GE to provide power for all variants of the A350 given EK will also be the largest 777 operator

5: What routes should we expect these to be deployed on.

6: Prior to the final design freeze what influence will they have in relation to QR

7: Finally at list prices Emirates quite the Airbus component at US$31.1bn and Boeing component at US$3.2bn and a backlog with both OEMS of 246 frames.

Emirates Homepage Airbus Homepage

By Massoud A. Derhally and Andrea Rothman

Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest planemaker, won an order from Emirates for 70 of its long-range A350s, another 50 options for the aircraft, and 11 superjumbo A380s, with a total value of as much as $31 billion.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=aopfnzNjDKXg&refer=home

2 related Airliners.net threads that may be of note / interest follow:

Emirates' Australian Expansion Plans

Emirates To Be No.1 In Passenger Load By 2015

This is an order of substance, thoughts and opinions would be appreciated, let the quality discussion progress. Thank you.
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ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:06 am

I would imagine the 350s will end up replacing the 777s over time. Thus they order today isn't really for expansion. The options are for expansion, should they be exercised.
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Emirates also announced an order for 12 further 777-300ERs

This takes their total 777 fleet into three figures. (110, by my reckoning.) That's a significant milestone for both the 777 programme and for Emirates.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:13 am

How many aircraft do EK have on order now from both manufacturers? there is 128 just between the a380 and A350
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:17 am

interesting to note too that EK has also signed a contract with RR to power their huge A350 fleet!

Looks like GE will be the long term looser, for hanging on to their GE90 for too long.

Sure, it IS a great engine, but its time has come....
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
1: What is the breakdown of the 70 firm A350XWB orders? Primarily -1000s?

2: What variants do the Options cover?

3: When is the delivery schedule expected to commence and what will these replace in the fleet.

1. 50 A350-900s and 20 A350-1000s

2. The 50 options are for the A350-900s.

3. The first A350 will be delivered to Emirates in 2014.

Source: http://business.maktoob.com/News-200...irates_makes_aviation_history.aspx
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting Ants (Reply 5):
20 A350-1000s

Could these be as substitute for the rumoured 748i order which likely isn't going to happen now that Boeing refused to give EK what they wanted?

I mean, the A350-1000 probably gets close to the 748i capacity and range wise and the number of orders is correct too, not to forget that the original rumour was the order would be 50 + 50, which it is, if we take out a 'last minute' upping with the 20 A350-1000...

Just my personal first minute analysis of the order ...
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:40 am

Unless Airbus has modified it's production schedule for the A350 variants (2013 -900, 2014 -800, 2015 -1000), this report suggests they're taking more than just the -1000.

http://www.ameinfo.com/137827.html
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
Could these be as substitute for the rumoured 748i order which likely isn't going to happen now that Boeing refused to give EK what they wanted?



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
not to forget that the original rumour was the order would be 50 + 50, which it is, if we take out a 'last minute' upping with the 20 A350-1000...

I'd say you are dead right.  bigthumbsup 
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:47 am

Didn't the rumours also say that there would be 20-30 A330s as well? Instead we get 20 more A350s. Seems to fit.

The 748i has never been in serious play at EK.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:59 am

Largest? Surely the Qatar order for 80 aircraft was larger?  Smile
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
Largest? Surely the Qatar order for 80 aircraft was larger?
Depends on how you count. If you add the 70 A350XWB and the 11 A380 firmed up together, its larger than QRs order.
Almost makes me think that they ordered the extra 3 A380 for beating QRs Paris order.

Another reflexion. No A350-800 ordered.
Does that mean that EK don't wont a plane of that size, or is the door still open for a B787-9 order later?
Maybe together with a B787-10, when it is offered by Boeing.

[Edited 2007-11-11 02:15:36]
SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
Largest? Surely the Qatar order for 80 aircraft was larger?

I think 70+50 A350s and 11 A380s (the original 8 at Paris was an LOI) would be seen as a larger order by most people. Plus all EK's A350s are the larger models, no -800s for them. I'm sure in value terms, it's a bigger order.

Good to see they've gone straight for RRs on their A350s, no waiting around to see if a GE option becomes available (PM must be very happy wink  ).
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 10):
Largest? Surely the Qatar order for 80 aircraft was larger?



Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
Emirates today announced the largest Order / Commitment to date for the A350XWB

Total A350 commitment by EK = 70 firm + 50 options for a total commitment of 120 A350s.

Total A350 commitment by QR = 80 firm
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:34 am

The Dubai-based airline has ordered:

50 Airbus A350-900 XWBs and 20 Airbus A350-1000 XWBs
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 13):

Total A350 commitment by EK = 70 firm + 50 options for a total commitment of 120 A350s.

Total A350 commitment by QR = 80 firm

Options should not be counted - they are not orders.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 12):
I think 70+50 A350s and 11 A380s (the original 8 at Paris was an LOI) would be seen as a larger order by most people. Plus all EK's A350s are the larger models, no -800s for them. I'm sure in value terms, it's a bigger order.

If you include the A380s, then yes, but thats not the deal we are talking about here  Smile The thread title is 'Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment'.

Now, we don't know the actual order value, but I would be inclined to believe that 20 A350XWB-800s are worth more in list price than 10 A350XWB-900 aircraft, and that's the real difference between the two orders!
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 15):
Options should not be counted - they are not orders.

The options form part of the commitment to the A350XWB. As you recognised in an earlier post:

Quoting Moo (Reply 15):
The thread title is 'Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment'

The thread title is not Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Order - so counting options along with the firm orders is correct in this instance.
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 15):
The thread title is 'Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment'.

OK, it's not worth arguing the toss over. But to be pedantic, the thread title does say "Largest A350XWB" commitment", which this clearly is. Yes, the QR A350 order may actually be worth more.

Either way, one thing we can all agree on, this is one honking big order! bigthumbsup 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:25 am

At the Emirates press conference naturally much was spoken of. I can add the following information, which may come as a surprise to some. I have no link so therefore I offer my opinion.

Emirates have not finished! They are tendering an RFP for the A358XWB vs the B787-8. Stated by the Sheik himself though he did not mention how many frames it was for.

Also for those who may have missed it. The 77Ws are already booked as Unidentified on Boeings site.

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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:37 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):

Another discussion point: Where is the rumored 747-8I order? Has that really been changed to the 20 A350-1000, as some have suggested here? Or can we expect it later, when more is known about the aircraft?

I am hoping for some more 747-8I orders, mainly for the sake of diversity. One can't have just A380s, that would be boring at some point.
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:38 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 18):
Emirates have not finished!

I didn't doubt it for one minute!

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 18):
They are tendering an RFP for the A358XWB vs the B787-8.

That's interesting. I was wondering if they wanted a plane smaller than the A359 in their fleet, and it seems they do. The only slight surprise is that they're looking at the 787-8 vs A350-800.

There have been lots of rumours that EK was looking to take A333s as "interim lift" and to start replacing A332s. Maybe they've decided to keep the A332s until they can replace them with A358s or 788s.

So maybe their strategy now is:
Use A358s/788s to replace the A332s.
Use A359s to replace A343s, 772s, non-ER 773s.
Use the A3510s instead of 748is for flights to West cost USA.

Plus 50 A350 options for expansion and adjustments as required.

Not to mention a large fleet of 773ERs and A380s.  crazy  faint 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:42 am

Do you think A359R has any role in Emirates' plans in the future?
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:43 am

Fantastic news, and a superb start of the Dubai Airshow.
 bigthumbsup 
I am amazed how Airbus positioned the A350 as a little bigger than the B787. They really seemed to have done it right.
With this amazing order, and with October month, Airbus must be back on top of the order throne, in both narrow and widebody segment?!?
I remember someone suggested that Airbus should quit selling widebodies and leave that segment to Boeing.
 Big grin
Anyway ... all commercial products seems to be going ahead nicely now.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:01 pm

Confirmation from Airbus that EK's A350 order is firm:
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...s/07_11_11_emirates_a380_a350.html
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:11 pm

Amazing. It was a fantastic day for Airbus and RR, congratulations both.  bigthumbsup  How many engines would that make? I guess about 160 Trent XWB and 50 EA GP7000?

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 18):
Emirates have not finished! They are tendering an RFP for the A358XWB vs the B787-8

This one could go for the 787, as the A358 will suffer from the shrink and may will not be able to match it.
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columba
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:39 pm

This is really great, I was hoping for the A350 and the 747-8I but still a great order and good news for the A350 programm.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 18):
Emirates have not finished! They are tendering an RFP for the A358XWB vs the B787-8.

I think that is Airbus' order to lose. Fleet comminality is such a strong point, and therefore I think the A350-800 will be a better option for EK. But then again, I'm no expert.

Great to see that the A350XWB is doing so well, two huge orders now in the books, who will be the next?

.....probably EK, again....

-CXfirst
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:08 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 26):
I think that is Airbus' order to lose. Fleet comminality is such a strong point.

Only up to a point. EK have 70 A350s on order with maybe another 50 to come. They will necessarily have a vast pool of flight crew and spares and what not with or without a further order.

They could perfectly easily order 30 or 50 or 100 787s to sit alongside their A350s with no appreciable financial penalty.

An airline with 5 A330s with RR and 5 777s with GE should worry about "commonality". An airline with 50 of each probably couldn't care less.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting EGNR (Reply 16):
Quoting Moo (Reply 15):
Options should not be counted - they are not orders.

The options form part of the commitment to the A350XWB. As you recognised in an earlier post:

Quoting Moo (Reply 15):
The thread title is 'Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment'

The thread title is not Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Order - so counting options along with the firm orders is correct in this instance.

Agreed. Options should be counted here as well, making this the largest A350XWB order (commitment) so far.

A388
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 54):

Heck, if a ~450-seat A388 can do it, no need for the 747-8I.

 rotfl  Alas, for LAX, EK has noted they require a 8500nm range. The current A380 won't do LAX. Maybe SFO, but LAX would be far to load limited.  Sad Trust me, I'd love to see a huge fleet of A380's at LAX from all over the world. LAX/SFO/SEA are all begging for more seats connecting to India, so its not like there isn't a market for EK to tap into.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 55):
since by the time the A350-1000 enters service boeing may be in talks with EK on a new 777, which would allow EK to decide

Which is a very good place to be for EK.

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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 57):
They've stated they've issued an RFP between the 787-8 and A350-800.

What exactly is an "RFP"?
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:40 pm

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Wow, not quite what many of us expected, but even better for Airbus as the closest number to today's order for 120 was 100. The voracity of Emirates is surprising regardless of what's behind it. However, congratulations to both companies, Emirates and Airbus. Also to Boeing as the 777 is seen as another winner of the airshow. I didn't know EK had so many T7s on order.

Note too that they have the 787-800 capacity range still open. Are they not yet sure they should take this aircraft?

[Edited 2007-11-11 06:46:23]
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kaitak
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 26):
I think that is Airbus' order to lose. Fleet comminality is such a strong point, and therefore I think the A350-800 will be a better option for EK. But then again, I'm no expert.

I always thought that EK's looking for a 787-10 and A350-900/1000 indicated that they were looking for something a little bigger than the A330-200. I am disappointed that EK didn't order interim A330s, but there you go; I guess they couldn't afford them  Wink.

Still, there's always Farnborough, next year!
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:51 pm

I wonder has Emirates Airways talked with Airbus about higher-MTOW A350-900's that could be used for very long range flights. That will allow EK to fly from Dubai (DXB) all the way to San Francisco (SFO) and Los Angeles (LAX) non-stop on a year-round basis. EK will probably assign the 777-200LR to the DXB to US West Coast routes once they get the authority to fly the routes.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:54 pm

First off, congratulations to Airbus. Not a surprise, but still a solid statement of confidence in the A350 program.  champagne 

Second, congratulations to Boeing, who now have another year's worth of uncontested 777 and 787 sales thanks to another year of A350 availability being soaked up between QR and EK.  champagne 

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
interesting to note too that EK has also signed a contract with RR to power their huge A350 fleet!

Looks like GE will be the long term looser, for hanging on to their GE90 for too long. Sure, it IS a great engine, but its time has come....

Which is why they just sold a few score of them to CX and EK this weekend...  Yeah sure

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 6):
Could these be as substitute for the rumoured 748i order which likely isn't going to happen now that Boeing refused to give EK what they wanted?

For the last time, EK didn't want the 747-8I. I am quite confident in my view the only reason EK kept talking up the 747-8I was to talk down the price of the A350-1000. That EK ordered the A350-1000 just reinforces my belief in that view.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 18):
Emirates have not finished! They are tendering an RFP for the A358XWB vs the B787-8. Stated by the Sheik himself though he did not mention how many frames it was for.

Well if they are tendering the 787-8 against the A350-800, then they must want a true A330-200 replacement which realistically means the 787-8. I would think they'd prefer the 787-9 and 787-10, be it an LGW or HGW model (or even both).

Quoting Thorben (Reply 19):
Another discussion point: Where is the rumored 747-8I order? Has that really been changed to the 20 A350-1000, as some have suggested here? Or can we expect it later, when more is known about the aircraft?

I am quite confident there never was a 747-8I order and the 20 A350-1000s are a reflection of Airbus' "falling for" the threat of such an order and agreeing to EK's terms on the A350-1000.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:04 pm

Congratulations to Airbus!

Quoting Moo (Reply 30):
*sigh* same old crap yet again, probably from someone who hasn't gone through puberty yet either.

  

Ya, typical Ignorant Jingoism.

[Edited 2007-11-11 07:05:59]
 
columba
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 26):
I think that is Airbus' order to lose. Fleet comminality is such a strong point, and therefore I think the A350-800 will be a better option for EK. But then again, I'm no expert.



Quoting PM (Reply 27):
Only up to a point. EK have 70 A350s on order with maybe another 50 to come. They will necessarily have a vast pool of flight crew and spares and what not with or without a further order.

They could perfectly easily order 30 or 50 or 100 787s to sit alongside their A350s with no appreciable financial penalty.

An airline with 5 A330s with RR and 5 777s with GE should worry about "commonality". An airline with 50 of each probably couldn't care less.

I agree with PM but since the A350 will very likely replace the 777s in EK´s fleet at some point I can see the need for another Boeing aircraft. Like AF, BA and LH EK does not want to be dependant on one manufacturer so 787-8 could make sense for them. That is also why I thought that they would order the 747-8I.
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:24 pm

According to Flightblogger, this is the order brake down:

Quote:
Just broke a little while ago here. Emirates is stocking up on 93 new firm aircraft (plus 50 options), this time with a massive combination of A350s, A380s and 777-300ER.

The order breakdown is as follows:

11 A380-800
50 A350-900
20 A350-1000
50 A350 (options)
12 777-300ER

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/
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Thorben
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:39 pm

Quoting Columba (Reply 38):
I agree with PM but since the A350 will very likely replace the 777s in EK´s fleet at some point I can see the need for another Boeing aircraft. Like AF, BA and LH EK does not want to be dependant on one manufacturer so 787-8 could make sense for them. That is also why I thought that they would order the 747-8I.

I don't think the A350s will replace all 777s. A lot of EK's planes are too new to kick them out like that. I expect the 70 A350s to replace:

29 A332
8 A343
3 77A
3 77E
12 773

56 planes that need to go,

I expect the following to stay for a while after 2015

77L
77W
A345
77F

The 744Fs will probably go when the 747-8F arrive.
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):



Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Looks like GE will be the long term looser, for hanging on to their GE90 for too long.

Sure, it IS a great engine, but its time has come....

I'm certain GE knows it can't hope to capture every order and the billion dollar price tag was too much for the ROI they would receive otherwise. The key to failure it trying to please everyone.
 
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting Douwd20 (Reply 41):
I'm certain GE knows it can't hope to capture every order and the billion dollar price tag was too much for the ROI they would receive otherwise. The key to failure it trying to please everyone.

GE has still sold almost twice as many GE90-11xBs then RR has sold Trent XWBs - even with EK's Trent order today. Even if RR lands all the uncommitted engine orders still available on the A350, that would almost get them parity.

Unless the total market for the A350 is under 1500 frames, GE has plenty of time - and incentive - to join the A350 program. And instead of rushing some half-arsed refresh of the GE90 to try and win a handful of initial orders, they're far better off developing a solid engine with superior economics to the Trent XWB which will allow them to win a larger share of the future - and total - A350 order book as well as the major share of the 787HGW/Y3 order book.
 
ilikeflight
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 11):
Does that mean that EK don't wont a plane of that size, or is the door still open for a B787-9 order later?
Maybe together with a B787-10, when it is offered by Boeing.

I could see this happening I think for many airlines the 350 and 787 can work very well beside each other
Think Different
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:17 pm

That's great news for Airbus, when they definitely need it! As much as Boeing would like it, the airline industry can't be dependent on just one large aircraft supplier.

Let's just hope Airbus doesn't get into the same kind of trouble on the A350XWB's as they did with the A380's. I'm sure the weaker US dollar is punishing enough.
 
ronerone
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:41 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 44):
That's great news for Airbus, when they definitely need it! As much as Boeing would like it, the airline industry can't be dependent on just one large aircraft supplier.

I totally agree here. Boeing, with or without EK have practically nailed it with the 787 (not factoring in the recent delay). I believe Airbus needed that EK support for the A350XWB, and they got it.

Congrats to Airbus on this.

As stated above, the 70 A350 orders will most likely replace several older aircraft. However, what will EK do with 58 A380's? I still find it hard to believe they need all that.

Would they be going to DAE for leasing perhaps?

EK has HUGE plans apparently. They want to rule the skies, and that is a scary thought  Smile

Regards,
Roni
Fly Roni. Aviation Journeys. Photos. Videos.
 
Thorben
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting Ronerone (Reply 45):
As stated above, the 70 A350 orders will most likely replace several older aircraft. However, what will EK do with 58 A380's? I still find it hard to believe they need all that.

Would they be going to DAE for leasing perhaps?

The A380s? It is rather so that EK is actually leasing some from ILFC. And if you look at how many flights EK offers to London daily, you can see what they'll do with A380s.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting Ronerone (Reply 45):
However, what will EK do with 58 A380's?

They will use it to establish a beach-head on new routes and reinforce them to the point (they hope) nobody else will be able to get a serious foot-hold there as well as to try and chase SQ, BA and QF off the "Kangaroo Route" as much as possible.

I have said it before and I will say it again - EK is the best A380-800 sales tool Airbus has. All they need to do is go to any 747 operator and show them an EK A380 and the deal pretty much seals itself.

JL's strongest sales tool for the A380-800 is this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



This is why I believe the 747-8I has no traction. It doesn't matter if an A380-800 is too big for you now. If EK competes on your route, you will need an A380-800 just to stay in the game...

SQ's Chew has said as much, and since his airline is the one most at risk by EK, I do not think he is talking out his bum.

[Edited 2007-11-11 08:54:57]

[Edited 2007-11-11 09:29:04]
 
dl767captain
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:11 pm

I don't think EK was ever serious about a 787-10, i think it was all a ruse to get airbus to either lower the A350 price, or get some improvements out of it. The A350 is honestly a good 777 replacement, but the fact that there was no order for the A350-800 makes me think that we could still see the 787-9 as an option, and even the 787-8 to replace A330s. I am a little shocked they signed RR, they must have really tried to force GE to make an engine for them, but i guess with that large of a fleet they can sustain a different engine type, plus if they order the 787 i guess they could still get the RR engine and make it a little more complimentary. These A350s are probably a 777 replacement, by the time the first ones arrive they will probably replace the non ER 777s, and as deliveries continue will replace the other 777s. What is surprising is the low number of A350-1000s, that would be a good 773 replacement which EK seems to really like, maybe they are waiting for Boeing to bring out a 777 replacement until they convert their options for more A350-1000s?

I am also guessing this makes the 748i order dead, even though there was an article about Boeing allowing a shorter 748, but it could be that those 20 A350-1000s, and 13 773's are to make up for that (the 773's will get here sooner and the A350-1000 will be for later expansion) (and wow we really need a shorter way to type the A350-1000!) I don't know if they even wanted the 748, but if they really need the capacity and range that the 748 can offer then i think they could still order it.

This order is probably great for Airbus, the money from this order probably helps a lot with money they lost with the A380 and A350 redesigns, as much as it pains me to say.... good job airbus.... ouch that hurt!
 
CJAContinental
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:18 pm

What are they going to do with all those A380's?
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 48):
I don't think EK was ever serious about a 787-10, i think it was all a ruse to get airbus to either lower the A350 price, or get some improvements out of it.

I believe EK were very serious about the 787-10. EK just wanted it to do as much as the A350-900 and EIS at the same date. Alas, Boeing didn't believe they could meet the first target in the timeframe required by the second target. So EK went with the A350-900 because it did the job and met the delivery schedule.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 48):
The A350 is honestly a good 777 replacement, but the fact that there was no order for the A350-800 makes me think that we could still see the 787-9 as an option, and even the 787-8 to replace A330s.

EK has said the 787-8 and A350-800 will go head-to-head in a separate RFP. I want to believe this means EK wants the 787 and is going to choose it as their A330-200 replacement. That EK did not take the rumored 30 A330-300s may be an indication that they are not in the market for a 787-9/A350-800 aircraft and instead prefer to operate a ≤200 seat model to open new markets and a ≥300 seat model to expand that market or service established markets.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 48):
I am a little shocked they signed RR, they must have really tried to force GE to make an engine for them, but i guess with that large of a fleet they can sustain a different engine type, plus if they order the 787 i guess they could still get the RR engine and make it a little more complimentary.

They need to secure engines now, so better to go with RR. They can always add GE to their 787s and even their A350 options should GE's engine become available prior to the conversion.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 48):
These A350s are probably a 777 replacement, by the time the first ones arrive they will probably replace the non ER 777s, and as deliveries continue will replace the other 777s.

Yes, EK is looking to replace their 777-200s, 777-300s, and A340-300s around 2013-2014 which is when their first handful of A350s would start arriving.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 48):
What is surprising is the low number of A350-1000s, that would be a good 773 replacement which EK seems to really like, maybe they are waiting for Boeing to bring out a 777 replacement until they convert their options for more A350-1000s?

With EK adding to their 77W fleet, I think they feel this is the backbone of their fleet for the next decade. The 20 A350-1000s will likely be used to replace their 20 oldest 77Ws or even their A345 fleet, which I expect to continue operating in the interim alongside their new 77Ls.

EK can wait a few years to see what Boeing has up their sleeves as a 77W replacement. If they like it, they can go that way. If they do not - or Boeing does not yet have a 77W replacement - they have plenty of A350 options they can convert into A350-1000s.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Place Largest A350XWB Commitment

Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:23 pm

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 49):
What are they going to do with all those A380's?

See Reply 47.  Wink

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