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falstaff
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Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:37 pm

I was driving around Willow Run (YIP) today and like usual there were seven Zantop L-188s on the ramp. I have not seen any of these move in a long time. Is Zantop still in business? If not who owns them? Are there any plans for them?
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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:33 am

I don't know they just chopped that one up and I am sure the green one and the one next to it will come soon. I heard some guy in California bought them and was going to do something with them. Maybe firebombing? I think it's on this site somewhere. They were working on them a lot more than they have been lately. You didn't happen to be one of the guys that walked out to the nose of that one on Friday to look at it were you?
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falstaff
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
You didn't happen to be one of the guys that walked out to the nose of that one on Friday to look at it were you?

That wasn't me. I wouldn't walk out on the ramp without permission. I just drive around the airport and look at stuff. Sometimes I ride my bike around.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
they just chopped that one up and I am sure the green one and the one next to it will come soon

Did they cut it up right there? Or did they move it?

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
They were working on them a lot more than they have been lately

Who is they and what kind of work are they doing?
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jetjeanes
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:02 am

Did they get rid of all the Dc-8,s they had years ago,, There was a dave Zantop that was one of the owners, One of the gals in their Mem station met one of them at a station visit and married him,,,

I wish they would make a come back there is a need for freight like that here in the states for oversize pieces.

I was up there years ago, it looked like they were doing most of the sorting out on the tarmac in the weather.
also was that a ford or Gm plant next to it.
i can see for 80 miles
 
2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 3):
I wish they would make a come back there is a need for freight like that here in the states for oversize pieces.

Unfortunately, there is less of a need for on-demand shipping of auto and assembly line parts...

2H4
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masseybrown
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:17 am

I believe the FAA cancelled Zantop's operating certificate sometime this year.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:12 pm

I think those have been parked there since the mid-1990's. Sad they have been left to rot for so many years. I guess if any of them had been any good as parts donors, they would have been snatched-up. That is, of course, unless the owners were overly-greedy.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
hangarrat
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:28 pm

I remember when Zantop used to send those into PHL when I was a kid. I used to go down to Cargo City with my dad when he missed the last Fed Ex pick up and usually there was an Electra parked there. They used to depart over our house too.
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ImperialEagle
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:32 pm

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 7):
I remember when Zantop used to send those into PHL

Yeah, there used to be an occasional "line-up" of them over at the North-Cargo building (ATL) from time to time back in the '80's.
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:44 pm

I remember seeing them at LAX in the mid-90s, on a fairly regular basis. Once in a great while there would be 3 Electras at the old, original Eastern's freight building on the southeastern side, near runway 25R.
Can anyone at YIP get the tailnumbers of these birds rotting away there? I'm curious to know if any are ex-American.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 9):
Can anyone at YIP get the tailnumbers of these birds rotting away there?

I'll be in the neighborhood next week. I'll see if I can find out. The staff at the FBO near Murray have been jerks in the past, though.

2H4
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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:36 am



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 2):
Did they cut it up right there? Or did they move it?

Yep, right there. That green one has been sitting as long as I have been here, I learned to fly at YIP in 99 and I have been working and based here since 2000. We had that AA 727 chopped up right there on our ramp too last year. Judging on what we got for that, I bet an L-188 will fetch about $25,000 in scrap, maybe a little bit more.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 2):
Who is they and what kind of work are they doing?

I am not sure who all was working, but they were getting some of them airworthy to fly them out to California from what I heard. It was really strange but nice hearing the Allison engines whirling over there from time to time.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 10):

I'll be in the neighborhood next week. I'll see if I can find out. The staff at the FBO near Murray have been jerks in the past, though.

Yeah Avflight is mean. I thought Signature was bad, they are pretty much the same. There isn't anything on the West Ramp any more anyways, if you come over by Kalitta on the South Ramp, I bet you could see all the tail numbers just about. I wish I would have read this earlier, I just flew a Lear in a couple hours ago and taxied right by all of them! I am off this week but have a trip Friday, if I remember, I will see what I can do about copying some down. I know a lot of them were Delta and Hawaiian birds at one point in their lives.

There is or at least was, a picture in the Zantop lobby in the main hanger on the South Ramp where the Yankee AF museum is currently of a night shot back in the hayday of Willow Run from the top of that hanger during a push. It was so cool, DC-8's, DC-6's, and L-188's all being loaded up just like a mini SDF or MEM. It's still pretty neat when we go to drop off freight on freight ramps in places like BUF and CLE and some other places I can't remember off the top of my head, some of the buildings still have the classic Zantop with the Electra tail sign up on the building.
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jetjeanes
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:53 am

I think all those planes looked like someone had beaten them with hammers as far back as the early 80,s.. They
were always rough looking but pretty reliable.. The dc-8,s seemed to have more mx,s
i can see for 80 miles
 
2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:07 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
I know a lot of them were Delta and Hawaiian birds at one point in their lives.

I can confirm the Hawaiian lineage of some of them....a friend of mine used to fly them, and I got to check out the inside of one of the green ones:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ed Groenendijk
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Photo © Ed Groenendijk




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Photo © Gerard Helmer
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Photo © Craig McCorriston




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Photo © AirNikon
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Photo © AirNikon



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
some of the buildings still have the classic Zantop with the Electra tail sign up on the building.

Man, those signs should be taken down and preserved.

2H4
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:36 pm

Here's a fleet listing of Zantop's aircraft, updated to mid-1999. Hopefully some of these Electras are still flight-worthy at YIP, albeit with some heavy maintenance. Regards.

http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/zantop2.html
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2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:43 pm

Well, I went out to YIP today and got several shots of the remaining Electras. As soon as I resize and edit them, I'll post them in here.

According to a worker in the old Zantop hangar, a company called "Turboprop LLC" or "Turboprops LLC" purchased the Zantop Electras. This company intends to refurbish them, acquire ferry permits, and sell them to cargo company(ies) in China.

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Tornado82
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:06 am

Learn something every day here if ya try I guess...

I was just talking about Zantop with a friend of mine over this http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19840530-0 a few weekends ago. "Home" is about 10 minutes from Chalk Hill (not Chalkhill), and the aforementioned friend owned property where some of the wreckage landed. He was asking me if they still fly, and I said I didn't think they had flown in at least a decade.
 
2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:37 am

Well, here you go, Zantop fans:

Big version: Width: 1600 Height: 1200 File size: 952kb
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I love this letterhead
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The only registration numbers I was able to pick out were N282F, N290F, N343HA, N344HA, and N5512.

Also, I saw an interesting sight on the way to the airport:

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 182kb


Big version: Width: 1600 Height: 1200 File size: 692kb



2H4
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FlagshipAZ
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:48 am

Based on 2H4's replies & info I have at home, these birds were originally ordered by Capital, Eastern and National Airlines.

N282F is L-188A c/n 1084 ordered/operated by National Airlines as N5006K.
N290F is L-188C c/n 1133 ordered by Capital Airlines as N182H, but not delivered. Sports Aloft Inc was the first operator in 1962, then the bird was sold to PSA in 1963 as N376PS.
N343HA is L-188A c/n 1053 ordered/operated by Eastern Air Lines as N5530.
N344HA is L-188A c/n 1038 ordered/operated by Eastern Air Lines as N5525.
N5512 is L-188A c/n 1017 ordered/operated by Eastern Air Lines as, what else...N5512.

Thank you 2H4, for your work. Much appreciated.
Interesting to note that the original buyers of these birds are long gone, and now the birds themselves are fading into history as well.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:59 am

Holy crap, I was up there today and didn't even notice that Beech missing. It's only been sitting there for at least 8 years. That was a PT-6 powered one too, all the ones Kalitta operated were TFE-331 powered so 355C was a pretty rare one. I thought one of the Zantop boys or Rousch had bought that thing. Nice jobs on the pics! You didn't get any pics of the Kalitta ramp did you? I might be in one of them! That hanger is so damn cool! Did you happen to see if that picture was still up in the lobby with the picture of that ramp from the roof? I wonder if N346HA was one of the ones that flew away? That one had just gone through a big inspection and was the queen of the fleet back right before they ceased operations. I went up in it one night with their dispatcher to take a look around. Cool planes though.
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hangarrat
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:47 am



Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 18):
These birds were originally ordered by Capital, Eastern and National Airlines.

How long were these aircraft in passenger service? I noticed the plane involved in the Chalk Hill, Pa., crash was sold by Eastern in 1977.
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2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:49 am



Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 18):
Thank you 2H4, for your work. Much appreciated.

My pleasure. If you'd like any larger versions, just let me know.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 19):
Nice jobs on the pics! You didn't get any pics of the Kalitta ramp did you? I might be in one of them!

I saw three or four Kalitta guys talking on the ramp. I was half-expecting them to come tell me to buzz off in the name of security...  Wink

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 19):
That hanger is so damn cool!

Absolutely. There's just so much history in there. I enjoyed walking around and wondering whose paths I was crossing.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 19):
Did you happen to see if that picture was still up in the lobby with the picture of that ramp from the roof?

I looked around, but didn't see anything. I think all the Zantop stuff was either claimed or stolen, unfortunately.

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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:11 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 21):
I saw three or four Kalitta guys talking on the ramp. I was half-expecting them to come tell me to buzz off in the name of security...

Nah, they don't care, unless you were trying to climb the fence and it looked like you were gonna make it, they are too busy fixing stuff I break.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 21):
I looked around, but didn't see anything. I think all the Zantop stuff was either claimed or stolen, unfortunately.

That's too bad, hopefully Dave or one of the other Zantop's got it. He's a nice guy and last I heard he was flying Rousch's 727's.
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2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:15 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 22):
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 21):
I looked around, but didn't see anything. I think all the Zantop stuff was either claimed or stolen, unfortunately.

That's too bad, hopefully Dave or one of the other Zantop's got it. He's a nice guy and last I heard he was flying Rousch's 727's.

On second thought, there might be an L-188 cockpit procedure trainer upstairs in the former Zantop offices, complete with old training posters and materials. Then again, I might be making that up.

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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:31 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):

On second thought, there might be an L-188 cockpit procedure trainer upstairs in the former Zantop offices, complete with old training posters and materials. Then again, I might be making that up.

Hmmm I do have a pickup truck....

N346HA was out on the line. I forgot, when I taxied out on Wednesday it was sitting there so I am not sure if they have flown any out since they ceased ops. They might need all that training stuff if the time to fly them out ever comes.
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2H4
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:43 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 24):
Hmmm I do have a pickup truck....

If you're not single now, you will be when she sees you dragging that into the driveway....  biggrin 

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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:43 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 25):
If you're not single now, you will be when she sees you dragging that into the driveway.... biggrin

Ahhh finally, it's good to be single!
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Viscount724
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:20 am



Quoting HangarRat (Reply 20):
Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 18):
These birds were originally ordered by Capital, Eastern and National Airlines.

How long were these aircraft in passenger service? I noticed the plane involved in the Chalk Hill, Pa., crash was sold by Eastern in 1977.

Eastern kept a dozen or so of their 40 Electras (delivered 1958/59) until 1977/78. The rest had been sold by the early '70s. National had 15 Electras, 12 delivered in 1959 and another 5 in 1961/62 (3 acquired used from AA). They were all sold in 1968. Capital ordered 5 but never took delivery as they were in financial trouble by then which prompted their merger with UA in 1961.
 
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tb727
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RE: Zantop L-188s At YIP, Whats Up With Them?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:11 am

Crap, I forgot to mention this earlier, I thought of it the other night and just remembered again. Ok, technically 2 airlines were operating the Electras at the end of the Zantop era. Zantop was Part 121 and had Zantop painted on the side as well as the red stripe on the tail. TMC, which I can't remember what is stands for at the moment(I'll probably wake up in the middle of the night in a week and remember) but anyways, they were Part 125. They had the same looking planes, just no title and no red stripe on the tail. Most of the charters when I would sub-charter them back in 2000 or so were TMC flown, they had older pilots generally since there is no age 60 rule for 125. I still called Zantop and they dispatched it, they just used TMC planes sometimes. I thought it was interesting, it may be because duty days were longer for 125 as well, but I can't remember, I think the feds have done away with part 125 for the most part so don't quote me. Murray's DC-8's are now 121, they used to be 125 when they started as well.

Anyways, that is all. I would usually choose the Electra for a trip because they hauled a similar payload compared to a DC9 but could non-stop Seattle or popular freight areas of Mexico from Detroit at a darn good price. I wonder what ever happened to old Gus over there. I sure do miss the sound of the Allison's whirling and watching those things takeoff. Power to weight ratio equal to or better than most WW2 fighter planes Smile
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