JewPilot
Topic Author
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Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:55 am

Hey Everyone,

I am wondering if you can help me out. My AP European History teacher just unleashed a massive project upon my class. We have to create a Document Based Essay Question (an essay in which one analyzes 12-15 historical documents, charts, pictures etc and uses them combined with outside knowledge of the subject to answer the question), and write a four to five page paper answering the question we create with the documents we find. My teacher knows that I have a job in the aviation field and that aviation is..well...my life. He suggested to me that I do my DBQ on something aviation related. So I am wondering, does anyone have any suggestions as to what airlines contributed to Europe in the 20th century (WWII and later if possible), particularly in the aspects of cultural, economical, and political change?? If I am being confusing, let me know, and I will try to break it down a little further. Thanks for all of your help!!

~JewPilot

P.S. I was thinking about Laker Airlines (Airways...?) and how they revolutionized the European LCC field, or something concerning Lufthansa during and post WWII. Any ideas would be wonderful!!
Go Sioux!
 
vv701
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:39 pm

One of the most significant contributions to European Commercial Aviation was the Berlin Airlift. Without trying to go into too much detail the four post World War II allied powers, France, UK, USA and USSR agreed to divide both Germany and Berlin into four zones, each controlled by one of the powers. Berlin was situated in the Soviet zone of Germany. The Soviets agreed that certain roads and railway lines from the other three German zones could be used for supplying the western controlled sectors of Berlin.

Post WW II relations between the western powers and the Soviets rapidly deteriorated from that of allies to that of enemies. And on 24 June 1948 the Soviets effectively blockaded the land routes from what later became The German Federal Republic to what was to become West Berlin/

From the start of the blockade until 11 May 1949 when it was lifted by the Soviets every lump of coal, every mouthful of food, every stitch of clothing, every implement, toy or other item used or sold in the American, British and French zones of Berlin had to be airlifted in.

Of course following the end of the war there was a huge surplus of ex-military transport planes in Europe, particularly C-47s. And there were a large number of similar aircraft still operated by the military. They were pressed into service for what started on 26 June - the Berlin Airlift.

By the time the blockade ended 278,000 flights including a peak of 1,398 in a single 24 hour period had been made along the three air corridors linking the west of Germany to the west of Berlin. A total of 2,330,000 tons of goods including 1,500.000 tons of coal had been airlifted to Berlin/

What was the impact on commercial aviation? While many of the flights were by military aircraft crewed by military personnel many were by entrepreneurial ex-military pilots flying ex-military transport aircraft. After the blockade these operators often sort to establish their own airlines.

Aircraft used by these often short lived airlines included not just the C-47 and the C-54 but, for example, the Avro York (a civilian derivative of the Avro Lancaster bomber that was still to be seen operating freight flights for Skyways from LHR in the mid 1960s).

A good source of original documents on the Berlin Airlift is the Harry S Truman Library and Museum:

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistle...ions/berlin_airlift/large/docs.php
 
vv701
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:03 pm

If you do a search in the photo section of a-net for "Berlin Airlift" you will come up with a large number of photos like these:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Den Pascoe
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Photo © Den Pascoe



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Photo © Colin Zuppicich
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Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen



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Photo © Malcolm Clarke
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alistair Bridges [Airplane-Pictures]

 
columba
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:19 pm

I would also mention Pan Am and their Intra-German Service maybe a topic most Americans that are not very familar with Germany and/or aviation will not know about.
The situation in Berlin with only allied airlines being allowed to land there.
The East/West Situation in general would be an interesting field - you could mention that LOT although belonging to the Eastern part had western aircraft in its fleet (Convairs and Viscounts if I recall correctly) and one West-German airline flew Yak 40s (General Air).
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
OHLHD
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:27 pm

You should for sure mention LCC´s like Ryanair who were the first conquer the LCC market and followed by others.

Another example you could use is Swissair especially what the disastrous end meant to Europe and especially Switzerland.
 
windowplease
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:12 pm

If this isn't too recent, I'd look at the impact LCCs like Ryanair and Wizz have had bringing Eastern European migrants to the West. There are maybe 600,000 Poles in the UK who have arrived in the last few years. Italy has attracted a similar number of Romanians...

This may shock US readers, but in cities like London there is now probably a bigger proportion of E. Europeans than the proportion of Mexicans and other central Americans in cities like LA or Houston.

It's a huge change. Good news if you''re looking to hire a plumber, less good news if you're a British plumber suddenly faced with an onslaught of competition.

All this has been made possible by the incredible number of flights between E European cities and provincial airports in the UK. A decade ago, who would have ever dreamed that there'd be a daily service between BRS and Poznan. Let alone a market for flights like DSA-Wroclaw.

In other words, cheap air travel has had and is having a huge change, especially in the UK.


another thought - you could look at what Iberia and charter airlines like Dan-Air did in converting Spain from an incredibly backward place in the 1960s to a much more modern society - all through the magic of package tourism.

[Edited 2007-11-12 08:15:41]

[Edited 2007-11-12 08:24:02]
 
JewPilot
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:51 pm

These are good suggestions everyone. Are there any more airlines that have reformed Europe? I like the Ryanair thing, but I was hoping for something more 1960s, 1970s around there. The Berlin Airlift thing is good too, but does anyone know where I can find historical documents from the British and French side of things? Thank you so much!!

JewPilot
Go Sioux!
 
Gemuser
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:58 am



Quoting JewPilot (Reply 6):
The Berlin Airlift thing is good too, but does anyone know where I can find historical documents from the British and French side of things?

Try the RAF Museum & the UK Public Rrcords Office for British docs.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
NG1Fan
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:43 am

Wasn't Austrian Airlines one of the first to use twin-engine passenger aircraft to cross the Atlantic Ocean? Not sure this is that revolutionary compared to the Berlin Airlift though.

NG1Fan
 
PavlovsDog
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:56 am

Concorde would be another interesting topic seeing as how it put Europe back in the forefront when it came to public perception of technological advancement. As it was a bi-national effort it did a lot to promote the concept of Europe and was a forerunner to the Airbus consortium which is a true pan-European symbol.
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:59 am

Although the airlift is a important component of German post WWII history, it surely didn't change Europe and hardly could be called an airline.

Beside of the bigger national carriers, like BA (BOAC, BEA etc), AF, LH, KL, and AZ and their contribution to European aviation, and, as Windowplease mentioned: Ryanair and some other LCCs who changed the aviation industry in the last decade, I only would see European charter airlines as important for European societies.

Specially in Germany and in the UK (and also in Scandinavia and the Benelux states), these airlines (e.g. like in Germany: Condor, LTU or Hapag Lloyd) made the mass tourism possible. The transfer of millions of people every year from the north to the south (countries around the Mediterranean Sea) and two or three weeks later back, is an important part of European history and for many people the beginning of the possibility to get to know other nationalities and mentalities. It helped the understanding of other people, helped the economical development of the poorer south of Europe and was also, among others, a important contribution for the European unification.

Axel

[Edited 2007-11-13 00:04:29]

[Edited 2007-11-13 00:21:13]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:04 am

Definitely Concorde, with BAC and Aerospatiale. There was nothing such as Airbus at the time (60's).

Quoting PavlovsDog (Reply 9):
Concorde would be another interesting topic

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Definitely Concorde, with BAC and Aerospatiale. There was nothing such as Airbus at the time (60's).

Pardon Madame, how far did the Concorde changed Europe? Indeed it was a grandiose technical product and it had so much grace, but actually it was only an expensive toy for a few very rich people and nothing else.  Smile

Axel

[Edited 2007-11-13 00:16:36]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
columba
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:21 am



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 10):
it surely didn't change Europe

If something aviation related has changed Europe than the airlift.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 13):
If something aviation related has changed Europe than the airlift.

Isn't it a bit Germancentric to argue that it changed Europe? It was part of German history and perhaps changed Germany, but how did it change Europe?

Call me a historian, who said this.

Axel

[Edited 2007-11-13 00:27:17]

[Edited 2007-11-13 00:35:10]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:37 am

Hi!

I would also think about airlines like AF, SN, BOAC and TP and their contribution to open Europe to the African Continent. SN and AF for example had already networks serving some parts of Africa, TP for example started a long african route around the coast from Lisbon to Lourenço Marques - now Maputo - flying with the C-47. This flight took 1 week and it had stops al over Africa.
AF also pioneered flights from Europe to South America in the 30's!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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bwest
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:40 am

I would say that the liberalisation of the EU skies has changed the face of Europe(an aviation). Well established carriers went under (Sabena & Swissair, Alitalia is struggling) or were taken over (KLM) or had to "redefine" themselves. Also, state owned carriers had to be privatised, which caused for considerable unrest among many of their workers. As such, you can take the aviation world as an example for the other sectors that were liberalised under EU pressure.

The liberalisation also allowed the massive growth of several LCC. It made the European market more competitive and allowed for a massive growth of routes. But at the same time, one could argue that the quality of service has dropped considerably and it made the idea of traveling by plane almost as common as taking a bus.

I admit that the EU is not the whole of Europe, but its decisions do influence even the non-european countries. Afterall, one of the reasons why Swissair took a share in Sabena was because it allowed them to enter the intra-EU market.
I love my Airport Job! :)
 
columba
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:06 am

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 14):

It was a clear sign to the Soviet Union that the US stands to Berlin and West Germany. If not for the airlift the Soviet Union would have had much more influence on Western Europe. If the Soviet Union would have taken Berlin and West Germany the border of the iron curtain would have been different and who knows if Stalin would have not taken the chance to take all of Western Europe if he had all of Germany.
When it comes to aviation and its influence on Europe I think the airlift is the most interesting part.

Another proposal for the topic but not related to airlines would be the history of Airbus as a multinational project.

[Edited 2007-11-13 01:13:45]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
odafz
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:47 am

Laker airways and its Skytrain concept in the seventies.
First airline in Europe to try to break the monopoly of BA on Northern American routes..

British AW introduction of the first shuttle services in the UK in the mid-seventies, hourly links to Belfast and EDI

SAS and the conception of consortium airline which after 60 years is still alive unlike the demise of Air Afrique and the disappearance of Gulf Air as a Gulf Airlines, being now the airline of Bahrain (Oman withdrew this year).

British Airways and franchise airlines .

Just some thoughts
 
kl911
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:01 pm

How about the oldest airline in the world, KLM? KLM was already flying to Asia and Australia post WWII. ( The flights took forever, but still... Smile )
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:03 pm

Hey. Great topic to write about. Could I rejoin school and do fun things like this? I think most of the topics you will find would be super political and you have to be careful to highlight both sides of the debate. Personally, if you want to talk about pan-European change, I would focus on the what others have mentioned and talk about phenomenons such as deregulation and/or advent of LCCs which changed the composition and face of air travel. Otherwise, you could talk about how airlines were the tool of Euro foreign policy ... perhaps talk about say airline timetables and destination in the 60s serving political ideologies (perhaps include espionage flights of Aeroflot, Interflug), etc.

Some of the ones I personally did not like ...

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 12):
Pardon Madame, how far did the Concorde changed Europe? Indeed it was a grandiose technical product and it had so much grace, but actually it was only an expensive toy for a few very rich people and nothing else.

Axel

= Completely agree with Alex. The Concorde was like the Titanic ... I don't think it changed the way of life for most people.

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 14):
Isn't it a bit Germancentric to argue that it changed Europe? It was part of German history and perhaps changed Germany, but how did it change Europe?

Call me a historian, who said this.

Axel

= Again, would have to agree with Alex here.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 15):
Hi!

I would also think about airlines like AF, SN, BOAC and TP and their contribution to open Europe to the African Continent. SN and AF for example had already networks serving some parts of Africa, TP for example started a long african route around the coast from Lisbon to Lourenço Marques - now Maputo - flying with the C-47. This flight took 1 week and it had stops al over Africa.
AF also pioneered flights from Europe to South America in the 30's!
Regards

= This is an interesting topic ... but you MUST look at how these airlines help sustain horrific colonizations and was perhaps another tool by the colonial powers ... otherwise, these airlines would never fly to the destinations outlined above.

Cheers and good luck,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
vv701
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:58 pm



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 10):
Although the airlift is a important component of German post WWII history, it surely didn't change Europe and hardly could be called an airline.



Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 14):
Isn't it a bit Germancentric to argue that it changed Europe? It was part of German history and perhaps changed Germany, but how did it change Europe?

Let's take it a stage further.

In the post World War II years European commercial aviation was dominated by national, government owned flag carriers. No one was allowed to compete with them on scheduled services. They had the market cosily tied up with governments controlling everything from flight frequencies to fares.

But the Berlin Airlift had established a new breed of ex-servicemen pilots flying ex-service transport aircraft seeking the opportunity to continue to fly. Unable to compete with the likes of BEA, BOAC, Air France and all the other national, government owned airlines - one for each country except for Denmark, Norway ans Sweden who joined together - they had to find another area to operate in. And so was born the inclusive tour holiday with so called European charter airlines flying holidaymakers from northern Europe primarily to the Mediterranean.

Cheap, inclusive tour holidays significantly changed Europe. The economies of many Mediterranean countries became heavily reliant on tourism instead of being almost entirely agrarian. Development along the coasts at places like Torremolinos and the rest of the Costa del Sol altered the entire character of the Mediterranean coastline. Sleepy fishing villages turned into vibrant tourist towns which woke up when they used to fall asleep. Bars and night clubs opened where before there was just a small occasional cafe. And in northern Europe the economies of traditional local seaside resorts such as Blackpool, Southend and Margate had to adjust as many of their previous holidaymakers flew south using the new cheap charter flights. The social and economic fall out in many parts of Europe was more than significant.

Of course it can be argued that this would all have happened without a Berlin Airlift. But it is a fact that the European charter commercial aviation business originates in the civil aircraft supplemented by sold off parts of the military fleet that sought gainful commercial use after the airlift ended.

So the ramifications of the German Airlift were not Germancentric but very wide. And they initiated almost unimaginable economic and social changes for new holiday resorts on the Mediterranean and old traditional resorts in northern Europe changing many of their residents lives for ever.
 
JewPilot
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:25 am

Well, here's the scoop. I sincerely appreciate your help, all of you. I am going to talk to my teacher tomorrow about whether or not I can tie in some aspects (again, political, cultural, and social) of the ongoing competiton between European and North American airlines. If he says yes, I am probably going to venture down that road towards choosing a topic. But, if you choose to, I encourage you in your spare time to shout any topic on this thread that comes to mind when thinking about European airlines (and again, during/post WWII if possible). Your help has been awesome so far, so don't be shy. I know that in your lives, my project is about as relevant as a grain of sand that you walk on, but to me, your advice has kept my mind on this topic for the past few days non-stop, AND THAT'S A GOOD THING!!

JewPilot
Go Sioux!
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:06 am

Hi!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 20):
= This is an interesting topic ... but you MUST look at how these airlines help sustain horrific colonizations and was perhaps another tool by the colonial powers ... otherwise, these airlines would never fly to the destinations outlined above.

Colonization was a political issue mostly, it's already part of history and either we like it or hate it it's there, unfortunately! Looking merely to facts and looking into aviation perspective I think it help to develop and strong tie between Europe and Africa....being shallow I would say "without the colonialism we would probably wouldn't have any aviation infrastructures in Africa now"!
The problem in my point of view is also another, most of Africa, when the "white people" left didn't received a lot of investment, and that's why things are the way they are right now. But don't forget one point, maybe you don't know but there is a "new class" of colonisers emerging in this continent....the chinese, the indians, the middle eastern people...they are too colonizing Africa right now!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Fairchild24
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:01 pm

Another thing that changes the way of Aviation not only in Europe
is the 7 freedom of rights concerning Aviation and also Shengen, this is perhaps not
Aviation related only but it contribute to Aviation industry.
And also ECAC.

Good luck with the homework Jewpilot.

Cheers
Radial engine does not leak oil, they only mark there territory
 
OzTech
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:51 pm



Quoting JewPilot (Reply 6):
but I was hoping for something more 1960s, 1970s around there

What about Britannia Airways.. They were at one point the largest charter airline in Europe.. Bringing Europe to the doorstep of 10's of 1000's of working class people from the early 60's. Cheap flights and accommodation all over Europe.. Something that BA and LH to name but two could not do.. Commercial full fare aviation in the 60's was for the rich and famous or business travellers only.. Britannia changed all that...
No defect too big, no defect too small, nothing in the log --- No defect at all !!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:13 pm



Quoting CV990 (Reply 23):
Colonization was a political issue mostly, it's already part of history and either we like it or hate it it's there, unfortunately! Looking merely to facts and looking into aviation perspective I think it help to develop and strong tie between Europe and Africa....being shallow I would say "without the colonialism we would probably wouldn't have any aviation infrastructures in Africa now"!
The problem in my point of view is also another, most of Africa, when the "white people" left didn't received a lot of investment, and that's why things are the way they are right now. But don't forget one point, maybe you don't know but there is a "new class" of colonisers emerging in this continent....the chinese, the indians, the middle eastern people...they are too colonizing Africa right now!!!
Regards

= I am not bringing my judgement into play right now. All I am saying is that the aforementioned debate for a paper will only be strenghtened by mentioning the role that aviation did play in continuing colonization. And the legitimacy of your claim of "new class" is for a debate in the non-avs.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:05 pm

Hi!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 26):
= I am not bringing my judgement into play right now. All I am saying is that the aforementioned debate for a paper will only be strenghtened by mentioning the role that aviation did play in continuing colonization. And the legitimacy of your claim of "new class" is for a debate in the non-avs.

Well, then all this issue about "colonization" should be there too right?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:14 pm



Quoting CV990 (Reply 27):
Well, then all this issue about "colonization" should be there too right?
Regards

= Not really. The OP wanted an aviation topic that changed Europe. AIRLINE links with Africa and/or others were done primarily to aid in maintaing colonial times. Your apparent new-wave "colonization" is not being synchronized with an influx of political airline routes. If you do not see the difference, I apologize. I am not willing to take this topic into a downhill tangent.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:25 pm

Hi!

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 28):
= Not really. The OP wanted an aviation topic that changed Europe. AIRLINE links with Africa and/or others were done primarily to aid in maintaing colonial times. Your apparent new-wave "colonization" is not being synchronized with an influx of political airline routes. If you do not see the difference, I apologize. I am not willing to take this topic into a downhill tangent.

I'm sorry, but you were the one that brought the "colonization" issue to this topic, not me! So if you think that we cannot discuss the new-wave "colonization" here, well then we should be coherent....just keep this issue in the topic you came with...and that's fine with me!!! The only thing I did was to follow your thought! Simply has that my friend!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:32 pm



Quoting CV990 (Reply 29):
I'm sorry, but you were the one that brought the "colonization" issue to this topic, not me! So if you think that we cannot discuss the new-wave "colonization" here, well then we should be coherent....just keep this issue in the topic you came with...and that's fine with me!!! The only thing I did was to follow your thought! Simply has that my friend!
Regards

= I MUST try one more time because I love the fact you dont get it. Here are some logical steps to aid.

Op Wants: Topic on Airlines CHANGING Europe.
Your Suggestion: "AF, SN, BOAC and TP and their contribution to open Europe to the African Continent. "
My Take: RIGHT. However, these happened due to colonization. TP would not have developed African routes if there were no colonization. Demand driven by POLITICAL motives.
My Analysis: Great topic as these airlines definitely changed Europe ... but within the framework of colonization.

Your Random Musing: Apparent "new wave" of colonization.
My Analysis: a/ "New wave" has NOTHING to do with Europe (main issue of topic) ... AND b/ "New Wave" has no major instument of aviation.

See the difference? Aviation plays a strict role in the former (hence a linkage), and doesnt in the second.

Feel free to PM me if you want to further explore the same.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
AndyEastMids
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:32 pm



Quoting ODAFZ (Reply 18):
Laker airways and its Skytrain concept in the seventies.
First airline in Europe to try to break the monopoly of BA on Northern American routes..

Not really - Laker was only challenging the encumbant carriers from the UK to the USA. In the wider European context, Loftleidir was the pioneer of scheduled low-cost trans-Atlantic travel.

A
 
CV990
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:16 pm

Hi!

Sorry mate, but politics and aviation don't match with me....so I'm not going even bother to answer what you said, simply because you keep trying to follow the topic to other areas. Another thing is the fact that you don't know nothing about portuguese colonialism, so the way you connected your first answer with this would take a long time...and I simply don't have it right now...maybe one day I can explain you a bit about that, but not today!
Regarding PM messages...noop, I really don't think I will send you one either...simply because is not worth of it!
Regards and I'm done arguing with you! Looks that lately colonialism is a very popular word coming out from the politicians!
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
dstc47
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:26 pm

The civil component in the Berlin Airlift was relatively modest.

What about the creation of Eurocontrol and the coordination of European ATC as a significant development?
 
vv701
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:19 am



Quoting Dstc47 (Reply 33):
The civil component in the Berlin Airlift was relatively modest.

For more than a year the small civilian component of the Berlin Airlift had been able to fly and earn a living around the clock. When the airlift finished so did their living. They were not allowed to compete directly with the national flag carriers operating scheduled flights. So European air charter was born. Like many innovative ideas it could have happened with just one aircraft and no more than a handful of pilots. In fact it happened with a lot more than one aircraft and many more than a handful of pilots.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:46 am

I know you were hoping for 1960's etc, BUT

11/09/2001 changed the face of Europe. It pushed the LCC growth through the roof, allowed them to build expansions around bargain basement new build aircraft and sent the state/flag carrriers scrambling to stem the flow of traffic. It also brought about the reality of low fares, on-line. Ryanair were especially good at this, they were literally screaming about their low fares, available to book online, and online only. Had 9/11 never happened, the LCCs in europe would be nowhere as strong as they are now, FR would be flying a fleet perhaps half the size it is now (if that) comprised of 737-300/400 and some -800s. Easyjet would probably still be flying 737s, but its hard to say. What is certain though is that day, and they way the LCCs delt with it started a new chapter for connectivity within the skies of Europe.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Airlines That Changed Europe, Help?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:50 am

I was going to post this yesterday or a couple of days ago but it's still sticking in my mind: Why not look at Airbus itself? It's yet another in a long line of Franco-German (now pan-European) project that has contributed to the economic unification of Europe, the coordination of work forces, it has been a player in a pan-european sense of pride and has become the only true direct competitor to Boeing and the American aerospace industry...

Another idea: the concept of "flag carriers" being vessels of national pride and extensions of nationality. Italians generally travel on Alitalia. The British- BA. French- AF. Germans- LU etc. The concept of flag carriers has kinda fallen away now that many of them are privatized but at one time they were almost all government owned. In their own ways, each airline contributed to the cultural development of their own country- as they saw it....

Yet another: The influence of the airlines on High Speed rail. IIRC, France had (still has?) an overt government policy to ensure that the TGV is a viable, even preferable, alternative to flying. How have airlines managed to not only survive in such a hostile taxation and regulatory environment, but actually grow?

As for the Berlin Airlift, did it not contribute to the foundations of NATO? If so, that has had quite the significant cultural (ie Spheres of Influence- Western Europe versus Eastern Europe.... even today), economic (ie Military procurement), and political- the creation of NATO among other things....

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