jamesontheroad
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:52 am

Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:56 am

Some nice spin from bmi, from an article in yesterday's Independent. The 12 month delay on launching LHR - US services obviously has nothing to do with the lack of available A330s...

Quote:
Next stop for long haul: airlines set a course to the East
Source: http://news.independent.co.uk/busine...is_and_features/article3149923.ece

By Rupert Steiner
Published: 11 November 2007

The entourage, including Egypt's first lady, that rocks into town this week with Tutankhamun will not only have walked like an Egyptian, but flown like one.

The exhibition on the life of the boy king at London's O2 Arena is the latest example of new links between the two countries, which include the recent expansion of UK airlines' capacity in the region.

Forget the "open skies" agreement set to unlock transatlantic travel next April – airlines are shunning the US to go East, drawn by the promise of strong market growth, a relative lack of competition and bigger margins.

.....

"Our niche is in the Middle East," says Mr Turner. "We would love to do trans-atlantic, but quite frankly we have been waiting 10 years, so another year ain't going to make a difference.

"I would rather watch what happens and see how competition develops, and if there is a blood bath it can happen while we are not there. The global economy is changing and there is a greater emphasis on developing economies and large populations where there is a huge latent demand."

 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18093
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Jamesontheroad (Thread starter):
Some nice spin from bmi, from an article in yesterday's Independent.

I wonder why you think this is "spin"?

I thought it was a pretty good article. There's likely to be a bloodbath on the trans-Atlantic routes, it will be tough for some of the smaller airlines.

I know BMI have had some problems, but the strategy stated here makes sense to me.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
cainanuk
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:05 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:09 pm

Cracks me up though that nobody whinged and moaned louder about not having Open Skies than bmi. Now that they have it they don't want it??!! I really wish somebody would just come in and buy bmi and either run it right or get rid all together. They are a joke!
Cainan Cornelius
 
vv701
Posts: 5773
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 1):
I wonder why you think this is "spin"?

The spin is that what Mr Turner is really saying is explaining the claimed advanages of dropping the until now consistent BD long term long haul westerly focus and substituting a medium haul easterly focus. This about turn in future strategy has been brought about by the opportunity for BD to buy BMED.

KJ's operations are, of course, almost 100 per cent to the east. They have no trans-Atlantic presence. So to maximise the value of BD's purchase of KJ, the new, larger BD needs to focus on integrating KJ's operations and also further develop the synergies from the existing BD presence on medium haul routes to the east that started when BD took over the UK-Saudi routes from BA.

The integration of KJ into existing BD operations and the development of the synergistic opportunities that BD and KJ together create will take significant resources. BD are therefore turning their back on what the airline has been clamouring for for ten years, namely Open Skies on the north-Atlantic and access to the USA from its main hub at LHR.

Of course this total about turn in long term strategy was forced upon BD as, on the calendar, the opportunity to purchase KJ almost totally coincided with the new North Atlantic Open Skies agreements (UK/Canada as well as EU/USA). But this is could be a temporary situation. Be sure that BD will return to refocus on opportunities to the west soon / sometime / never (delete as appropriate).

In other words it is an explanation of a total change in future focus for the airline. Oh! And by the way, it means that BD will not be part of the inevitable Noirth Atlantic blood bath that until recently they had been so anxious to be part of. If that is not spin, what is? Turner certainly was not going to stand up and say that BD had got it all wrong for the last ten years but that at last they have got it right.
 
OB1504
Posts: 2985
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:53 pm

Speaking of which, why hasn't BD tried to develop MAN into the next Heathrow?
 
ManchesterMAN
Posts: 1040
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 10:57 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 2):
Cracks me up though that nobody whinged and moaned louder about not having Open Skies than bmi. Now that they have it they don't want it??!! I really wish somebody would just come in and buy bmi and either run it right or get rid all together. They are a joke!

BD are actually going to make very good use of open skies as it had opened the door for their comprehensive codeshare agreement with UA whereby BD codes will be placed on all of UAs flights from LHR to the USA starting in March.

I actually think this more considered approach from BD is sensible. Yes it does have something to do with aircraft availability but they will have 2x A330s delivered next year so this is no reason to delay until 2009.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:27 pm

The A330s have been deferred until 2009.

Regards

Mike
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:24 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:27 pm

BD is doing what a well run company needs to do. Constantly look at the market as it develops and respond appropriately. BD was vocal about open skies before the became a *A member. Now that they aren't going it alone refocusing ops is appropriate. BD has made some really incredibly stupid missteps. This time though they are being a bit more realistic. That is what a well run airline or any company needs to do.
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:36 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 4):
why hasn't BD tried to develop MAN into the next Heathrow?

A question that's been asked many times???!!!

And with CO, NW, DL arriving in the foreseeable future, I'm not surprised BD are running scared...!!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18093
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
The spin is that what Mr Turner is really saying is explaining the claimed advanages of dropping the until now consistent BD long term long haul westerly focus and substituting a medium haul easterly focus.

Thanks for that. Put it this way - if it is "spin" it seems sensible to me.

Times are changing in airline land. Routes that may be profitable with oil at, say, $70 may be dodgy with oil at $95. The smaller US airlines are all revising strategy. At least one major airline - United - is talking about grounding 100 aircraft its fleet.

It seems fairly clear there is going to be blood over the Atlantic, so add into that an opportunity for BMI to buy an airline "with an easterly focus" and I'm not surprised there has been a change of thinking.

I hope it works for them. I first flew BMI back in 1990 (and several times since) and very much enjoyed the experience.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
BCALBOY
Posts: 102
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 4):
why hasn't BD tried to develop MAN into the next Heathrow?

For the same reason that BA hasn-t .

There are very few longhaul services out of MAN that have sufficient profitable point to point traffic to
support a service.

JFK , MCO ( profitable ? ) are already served.

Of the Star hubs , BMI already serve IAD ( UA ) , they-re tried IAD and it didn-t work.
US serve MAN themselves so probably don-t want any help from BMI.
SQ serve SIN themselves.
LH/SK/LX are sending traffic on to their networks over FRA,MUC,CPH,ZRH .


Where,s the gap for BMI ?
 
Humberside
Posts: 3223
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:51 pm

When bmi do eventually do LHR-US service, how likely is IAH - it would enable them to tap into the oil market between Houston and the Middle East/Central Asia
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
AndyEastMids
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:24 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:54 pm

bmi has banged on and on about going across the Pond from LHR for years, and now they've finally got the opportunity to do what they wanted they're ducking out. Sad, because it didn't need a rocket scientist (not that Turner comes anywhere close to that) to foresee that the trans-Atlantic market would be a challenging market in which to establish operations once the bilatteral was squashed. What did they expect - to enter the market unhindered by new entrant US/European carriers or by BA and VS looking to protect their position? Don't make me laugh bmi. I hoped that they'd have the courage of their convictions and go for trans-Atlantic, based on an expectation they should have had when they were doing all the shouting that they'd have to work hard for their market share. Clearly their bleating on about being allowed into the market wasn't substantiated by an understanding of what they were really asking for.

A
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:24 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:57 pm

BD is doing what a well run company needs to do. Constantly look at the market as it develops and respond appropriately. BD was vocal about open skies before the became a *A member. Now that they aren't going it alone refocusing ops is appropriate. BD has made some really incredibly stupid missteps. This time though they are being a bit more realistic. That is what a well run airline or any company needs to do.
 
LHRBlueSkies
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:23 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting AndyEastMids (Reply 12):
Clearly their bleating on about being allowed into the market wasn't substantiated by an understanding of what they were really asking for.

I agree to a degree - but times have changed since their campaign started and they realise that - would you enter the race across the pond given the oncoming slaughter?

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 13):
BD has made some really incredibly stupid missteps. This time though they are being a bit more realistic.

They certainly have, and it's a nice surprise to see them being thoughtful for once, although it would be nice to fly them over the pond from my local airport!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
Flight209
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 8:07 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 5):
BD are actually going to make very good use of open skies as it had opened the door for their comprehensive codeshare agreement with UA whereby BD codes will be placed on all of UAs flights from LHR to the USA starting in March.

I actually think this more considered approach from BD is sensible.

Even with "this more considered approach" to the U.S. market, might BD still be passing up a few good opportunities to fly its own craft to the States? I'm thinking specifically of:

1. LHR-JFK and/or LHR-EWR -- UA, a weakling in the NYC market, seems to be in no hurry to restart service between that area and LHR. Thus, even with the upsurge in LHR-NYC competition, wouldn't BD do well to reestablish a *A presence between London and the Big Apple, not to mention attract whatever travelers are craving an alternative to BA, VS, and U.S.-based airlines for that city pair?

2. Service to US Airways hubs PHL and CLT -- Right now, the only BD route to any major station for US is MAN-LAS. That route, particularly given LAS's summer heat and relatively high altitude, is probably pushing the limits of the A332, so BD flights to PHX (from either LHR or MAN), or even LHR-LAS on BD, might be out of the question in the near future. However, PHL and CLT and definitely close enough, and potentially lucrative enough, for BD to serve from LHR with its A332s. True, BA already flies LHR-PHL, but that route may nonetheless have enough O&D traffic for BD to be an effective competitor to BA, and especially to complement US's PHL-LGW route well. LHR-CLT would have to depend more on connecting traffic on US than would LHR-PHL, but again, such a route could be an ample complement to US's CLT-LGW service (much the same way that LH flies MUC-CLT while US operates CLT-FRA).

[Edited 2007-11-12 11:35:04]
I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:48 pm

I love it when bmi comes up on this board, as they are clearly damned if they do and damned if they don't!

Obviously bmi have campaigned for transatlantic open skies for almost 10 years, however when it finally happened they faced some very clear difficulties that would not necessarily have been there had it happened 5 years ago! With oil at record prices and a free for all on LHR now that not only US carriers but also European carriers can launch flights from LHR to the US surely it makes sense to concentrate on the intergration of BMED and the strengthening of their position in the new markets to the East, whilst at the same time sourcing bmi fleet common A330s ready to launch US flights in 2009 when the LHR-US market has settled somewhat.

Even then, bmi may decide that the US market is no longer what they want to do if they decide to pursue other opportunities elsewhere, as they have done with the BMED opportunity at present.

I can imagine how much of a slating bmi would get if they attempted to launch LHR-US flights whilst still trying to integrate BMED and it all went t*ts up!!!!
 
9252fly
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:19 pm

I have to give BD credit for showing prudence. As stated,they've wanted access for many years to fly from LHR to various USA destinations. Now that they have it,so does every other European and US carrier. That's not what they anticipated years ago,rather,I suspect they expected Bermuda II to disappear and that they would have the ability to fly to any destination of their choosing in the USA from LHR. The reality is that yields on the trans Atlantic are down now(Just wait and see what happens when open skies starts). There are better yields to be found elsewhere.
 
jamesontheroad
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:24 pm

Don't forget that bmi were all set to start

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 17):
I have to give BD credit for showing prudence.

I'm just wondering whether they would be showing the same prudence if they had managed to get hold of the A330s that they had originally wanted to have for next March... I can quite imagine BD getting slaughtered in this predicted bloodbath if the necessary frames had been available.
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 8):
And with CO, NW, DL arriving in the foreseeable future, I'm not surprised BD are running scared...!!

Nope..wrong, I dont believe they are running scared, far from it..makes sense to me, with the recent aquisition, they need to concentrate on all the new routes they now have and develop those, meantime, they can enter into a broad co-operative code share with UA and share revenues over the Atlantic. Let the others come to the party and let the dust settle. When they do go for it BD will be more than able to hold their own what with their feed at LHR. Of course they need to choose their routes carefully when they do start ops, but JFK is a sreaming whole in the *A on this route so IMHO BD will gor for that, althouth of course we have AI possibly joining the *A who will also operate on that route as well.
Either way, BD I think have got it right this time, time will tell.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Jamesontheroad (Thread starter):
"Our niche is in the Middle East," says Mr Turner.

This week, anyway. Next week it's back to LBA-LIL. Or LSY-MSQ. Or wherever the darts lands on the map up at Castle Donington.  Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:59 pm

"Our niche is in the Middle East" says Mr Turner.

Or did he mean the East Middlands? How good is his geography?
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 15):
to complement US's PHL-LGW route well.



Quoting Flight209 (Reply 15):
such a route could be an ample complement to US's CLT-LGW service

...both of these assume that US continues to serve LGW from either destination, and seemingly to the exclusion of LHR.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
daron4000
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:17 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:25 pm

You guys need to give BMI a break here. For one, when they began clammoring for open skies, oil was not at $100 a barrel. Trust me, it is a lot easier to open up a new network when oil costs 1/5 of what it does now because it means that you need to fill far less seats than you would have to in the current environment. On top of that, the US dollar is very weak so it makes the US more expensive since BMI operate on the British Pound and then there is going to be a recession in the US too. Finally, had BMI started service to LHR, how many of you who are claiming this is such a dumb move would actually transfer from your current transatlantic carrier to fly on BMI?
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting BCALBOY (Reply 10):
There are very few longhaul services out of MAN that have sufficient profitable point to point traffic to
support a service.

Now why does MAN have to rely on point to point traffic to make it work? BA relies on feed from the regions to make LHR routes work so why couldn't BD decide to do a radical thing for all these alliances and focus away from the "major" hub and develop a network encompassing their own domestic routes plus those routes of LX, LH and SK and become the proverbial big fish in a little pond. Or are we just happy to see LH walk away with 10% of thier MAN passengers (i.e. over 40,000 a year) going business class long-haul out of FRA/MUC instead of seeing BD try to get a portion of them to do it from MAN non-stop?
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting David_itl (Reply 24):
instead of seeing BD try to get a portion of them to do it from MAN non-stop?

Surely if it was that easy it would have been done by now? The fact that bmi have tried to make an effort with long haul out of MAN, currently flying to four destinations and offering a very good service, whilst BA has been pulling out of the regions, is clearly not good enough for the armchair CEOs on a.net.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 25):
The fact that bmi have tried to make an effort

Like IAD - let's stop the service for 6 months, bring it back but make it 2 weekly and then decide to cripple the route by going from the "5 star winning service" to an FI 757? I daresay armchair airliners.net CEOs could come up with a more coherent policy then BD is doing at the moment
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting David_itl (Reply 26):
Like IAD - let's stop the service for 6 months, bring it back but make it 2 weekly and then decide to cripple the route by going from the "5 star winning service" to an FI 757? I daresay armchair airliners.net CEOs could come up with a more coherent policy then BD is doing at the moment

I completely agree that bmi made a mess of IAD, I should know as I was there right in the middle of it, but do you honestly think they would have stopped the route for six months if it was doing so well? Next you'll be saying how they started Toronto and gave up after only one summer season, when what people fail to mention when they bring up that ol chestnut is that it was only ever going to be for one summer season anyway, operating at the request of AC! And what about the four remaining routes?

But seriously though, what exactly is incoherent about their current policy of concentrating on the BMED integration whilst letting the dust settle over the bun fight that is LHR-US ops. To me it seems like a lot of sense. Can you imagine the stick bmi would get on here if they launched flights in Spring 08 only to pull off the routes six months later cos they had bitten off more than they could chew cos they were bogged down with the BMED integration?
 
miami1
Posts: 652
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 10:31 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:01 am

Maybe BMI should do LONDON to Fort Lauderdale / Hartford / Providence / San Jose, CA / Portland, OR / San Diego / St Louis , non of those cities have scheduled UK traffic, would be a good idea i think, they are major metro areas or at least next to other major cities and would provide good origin destination alternatives.
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:25 am



Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 25):
Surely if it was that easy it would have been done by now? The fact that bmi have tried to make an effort with long haul out of MAN, currently flying to four destinations and offering a very good service, whilst BA has been pulling out of the regions, is clearly not good enough for the armchair CEOs on a.net.

MAN has to accept it's not London.

It never will be.

MAN is not glamourous, it doesnt feature on anybody's "must visit" cities.

Therefore unless MAN is dirt cheap no one will connect there.

Unfortunately the only thing cheap in MAN is the service, certainly not the price, whose taxes are amongst the highest....

So no one makes a hub of it.


At the end of the day, the only unglamourous city "hubs" I can think of, where no one really wants to visit, but most passengers use it to connect is DFW, CLT and maybe DOH.. and thats because it's cheap and convienient + a few locals.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:21 pm



Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
Unfortunately the only thing cheap in MAN is the service, certainly not the price, whose taxes are amongst the highest....

Which is why they keep getting awarded prizes for lowering charges?

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
MAN is not glamourous, it doesnt feature on anybody's "must visit" cities

That comes down to the London err... BritishTourist Authority not bothering to advertise "not London". Remember the surprise on the BBC's reporters when the Commonwealth Games was in town? There is a world out there waiting to be seen rather than have every tourist exploited by London's astronomical prices. However, f the poor brain-dead people want to continuing being stung for everything, that's their problem.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 29):
MAN has to accept it's not London.

It never will be.

Yes, MAN knows this. But if BD have said there's half a dozen long-haul opportunties for them out of MAN, I refuse to believe that they include ANU, LAS and BGI! Which airline went public on wanting MAN-JNB and MAN-India and trying to get authority to fly those routes? And what happened once India was opened up.....start from LHR and unable to compete effectively.
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:28 pm



Quoting David_itl (Reply 30):
Which airline went public on wanting MAN-JNB and MAN-India and trying to get authority to fly those routes? And what happened once India was opened up.....start from LHR and unable to compete effectively.

When exactly did bmi go public on wanting to serve MAN-JNB and MAN-India and try to gain authority to fly these routes? And again, bmi seem to be gettting stick for their choice of routes out of MAN when no other UK airline seems to be offering scheduled long haul services from MAN, either in or not in competition with BD.

And does the LHR-India debacle not prove that bmi is right in its current strategy of holding off LHR-US routes until after the dust settles????
 
David_itl
Posts: 5946
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:46 pm



Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 31):
When exactly did bmi go public on wanting to serve MAN-JNB and MAN-India and try to gain authority to fly these routes?

Try looking at this Flight article

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 31):
And does the LHR-India debacle not prove that bmi is right in its current strategy of holding off LHR-US routes until after the dust settles????

The current strategy would be right if, and only if, they do not enter LHR-US and lose face over losses sustained on those routes. But it depends if you want BD to be the little fish in the big pond or the big fish in the little pond!
 
bmiexpat
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:19 pm



Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
Try looking at this Flight article

So bmi were considering/negotiating for different routes out of MAN. Well they are an airline and isn't that what airlines do? They obviously decided against it, for reasons that they do not have to specify, and there is nothing wrong in that.

Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
The current strategy would be right if, and only if, they do not enter LHR-US and lose face over losses sustained on those routes.

So are you saying that if bmi do not enter the LHR-US race and therefore do not sustain heavy losses then they prove their current strategy is correct? Well isn't that what they are doing? So does that make the strategy right then?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:34 am



Quoting David_itl (Reply 32):
Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 31):
When exactly did bmi go public on wanting to serve MAN-JNB and MAN-India and try to gain authority to fly these routes?

Try looking at this Flight article

Bmi were close to launching JNB from MAN - I saw the plans and knew of what was due to happen. Then India came up and Bmi jumped into that thinking it would be a fantastic market for them. The reason for abandoning JNB was "due to being unable to reach agreement with the pilots" allegedly.

India failed badly of course, but at the time it seemed a much better bet than JNB - primarily because there was the problem of an aircraft spending the day in JNB - which causes problems with yields of course. MAN being a lower yield market than LON obviously exascerbated the problem, but the market was undoubtedly there, as there is a real lack of capacity between UK and SA. India seemed a much better bet for them, prior to entering service, but they didn't get the frequencies they wanted , making it useless for the business flyers, and there was a tonne of competition to go up against.

But the Indian disaster may have coloured bmi's thinking regarding going Transatlantic. Saudi Arabia has worked for them, in part due to a lack of any meaningful competition, and the Bmed purchase gives them a lot of niche routes away from the big players - no DXBs, DOHs, etc. Transatlantic from LHR means going up against a lot of big players, and a half-baked entry into the market, as with India, would be a massive disaster for bmi.

Ultimately bmi are in a bit of a no-win situation here. They can't afford to make a hash of Transatlantic from the start, yet any delay allows all the other US carriers to get into LHR and establish themselves. Neither situation is ideal and as a secondary carrier (compared to the really big US carriers and BA) it will be so much harder for them to crack the market - even as a Star Carrier.

But at the same time, placing such an emphasis on the Middle East is also a risky strategy for a private, smaller carrier. Should any future conflict arise again - for example anything with Iran, and it could be a major problem for bmi - possibly even terminal in the long term - if they haven't diversified enough into other markets.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Bmi: Not Risking Trans-Atlantic Bloodbath

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:51 am



Quoting Flight209 (Reply 15):
Right now, the only BD route to any major station for US is MAN-LAS.

 whistleblower .....BD's MAN-ORD is one of their most profitable, if not most profitable routes in their entire system...certainly on a per/seat basis...

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 28):
Maybe BMI should do LONDON to Fort Lauderdale / Hartford / Providence / San Jose, CA


......London to SJC... cloudnine ...not going to happen though... Sad
"Up the Irons!"

Who is online