CRJpurser
Topic Author
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:33 am

New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:08 pm

It's finally here. A new CRJ-705 (the 16th in the fleet) has joined the Jazz fleet. It will operate it's first flight on November 20th (YYZ-YQT). Configured 10J 65Y, it does not have as of yet the in-seat IFE, bit it will be installed "as soon as possible". This aircraft replaces the CRJ-100 that lost it's gear a few months back.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:13 pm

So was the CRJ-100 written off? I hadn't heard they had ordered an additonal CRJ-705 so that is great. The 100's that were moved from AC had horrible seats so that is good news.
 
multimark
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:15 pm

Interesting. I thought Jazz was at the limit of their jet flying, according to the restrictive clause forced on them by the Air Canada pilots.

Why wouldn't they have the IFE installed at the factory?
 
CRJpurser
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:18 pm

Yes the 100 was written off. As for the their seats, they were bad. However most of the 100s have received new interiors (the same seats as the new aircraft). I think there are only one or two left to receive the new seats.
 
CRJpurser
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Multimark (Reply 2):

Why wouldn't they have the IFE installed at the factory?

Apparently this aircraft was used as a Bombardier demonstration model, and did not have the IFE (which is specific to Air Canada) installed.
 
9252fly
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:00 pm

It seems Jazz will also be increasing it's fleet of DH8-300's early next year. My understanding is that they are used aircraft coming from another carrier. So far it appears that two DH8-300 aircraft will be added. Considering how old the DH8-100's are getting to be,and the higher cost of operating that model(37 seats)compared to the 50 seats in the 300,it's a wise move. I don't imagine there are too many 300's around that are available for lease?
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:24 pm

Interesting. I totally missed this order, as well. Was it just an order for one unit, at a good (demo) price, after the one CRJ-100 was written off?

Interesting to hear of the DH8-300's coming, as well. Will they be owned? I'm surprised that we've not yet heard of any mid/long-term fleet renewal plans for the aging dashes... is there any timeline on this? Is Air Canada dragging their feet because of uncertainty whether Jazz will actually be spun off?

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
multimark
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Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:32 pm



Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 6):
...Is Air Canada dragging their feet because of uncertainty whether Jazz will actually be spun off?

Jazz has been spun off. Currently ACE (Air Canada Enterprises) owns only about 20%, and has stated they will sell that remaining stake.
 
cgojz
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:41 pm



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 5):
It seems Jazz will also be increasing it's fleet of DH8-300's early next year. My understanding is that they are used aircraft coming from another carrier. So far it appears that two DH8-300 aircraft will be added. Considering how old the DH8-100's are getting to be,and the higher cost of operating that model(37 seats)compared to the 50 seats in the 300,it's a wise move. I don't imagine there are too many 300's around that are available for lease?

Two -311's leased from GECAS, both formerly operated by Wideroe. Neither aircraft will be operated under the AC CPA agreement, they are being leased direct to Jazz for charter flying. They will be the first aircraft that will not carry Air Canada branding. One aircraft is already in Canada, the second remains in Norway until next month.

The CRJ705 is the former demonstrator C-FGND which was originally built for Jazz, hence the compatible configuration.
 
9252fly
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:42 pm



Quoting Multimark (Reply 7):
Jazz has been spun off. Currently ACE (Air Canada Enterprises) owns only about 20%, and has stated they will sell that remaining stake.

I was under the impression that they would want to keep at least a small holding in order to have some influence?
 
Salomon
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:11 am



Quoting CGOJZ (Reply 8):
The CRJ705 is the former demonstrator C-FGND which was originally built for Jazz, hence the compatible configuration.

Why wasn't it delivered to Jazz originally?
Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
 
CRJpurser
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:34 am



Quoting Salomon (Reply 10):

Why wasn't it delivered to Jazz originally?

If I remember correctly, Jazz was to receive originally receive 30 705s and 15 200s, and AC was to receive 45 E190s. After much in-fighting between pilot groups the order changed to 15 705s, 15 200s, 15 E175s, and 45 E190s. So there may have been an extra one or two 705s around.
 
multimark
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:10 pm



Quoting 9252fly (Reply 9):
I was under the impression that they would want to keep at least a small holding in order to have some influence?

I expect they feel the Capacity Purchase Agreement gives them enough influence so they can monetize their remaining shares of Jazz before they wind up ACE.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:13 pm

I know where some Q400's are currently available...
What the...?
 
bond007
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:16 pm



Quoting CGOJZ (Reply 8):
The CRJ705 is the former demonstrator C-FGND which was originally built for Jazz, hence the compatible configuration.

Just saw this baby land at BTV ... callsign BFO (Bombardier) 955. Full Jazz colors.


Arrived from YUL, departed to YYZ. Delivery ?


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:58 pm



Quoting Multimark (Reply 12):
Quoting 9252fly (Reply 9):
I was under the impression that they would want to keep at least a small holding in order to have some influence?

I expect they feel the Capacity Purchase Agreement gives them enough influence so they can monetize their remaining shares of Jazz before they wind up ACE.

The CPA lasts until at least 2015. That plus other agreements between Jazz and AC/ACE mean Jazz will remain beholden to AC/ACE due to substantial, but not necessarily all, services for:
- Aircraft financing
- Ground handling
- Aircraft maintenance
- Reservation systems

Plus the Jazz Board and executive are all dominated by AC/ACE links.

Jazz won't be making any independent strategic decisions for a while yet even if ACE owns 0%.
 
cgojz
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:01 am

RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:56 am

[

Quoting Robsawatsky (Reply 15):
The CPA lasts until at least 2015. That plus other agreements between Jazz and AC/ACE mean Jazz will remain beholden to AC/ACE due to substantial, but not necessarily all, services for:
- Aircraft financing
- Ground handling
- Aircraft maintenance
- Reservation systems

Plus the Jazz Board and executive are all dominated by AC/ACE links.

Jazz won't be making any independent strategic decisions for a while yet even if ACE owns 0%.

Although the CPA agreement is long term, Jazz enters into renegotiations for the next 3 years shortly. Traditionally aircraft assigned to the AC CPA have been financed through ACE controlled companies, however Jazz is able to, and is currently financing non-CPA aircraft acquisitions on their own. There are agreements in place with ACGHS and ACTS with respect to ground handling and certain maintenance functions related to the CRJ, but these are certainly not exclusive. Maintenance is also performed by Exeltech, Avmax and Comair. Of course reservations are a function of AC, as it is their customers that fly onboard Jazz aircraft. I realize you said "substantial, but not necessarily all" but you are perhaps not presenting the true picture.

With the dissolving of ACE in 2008, the Jazz board make up will change to reflect that, and if the Executive is dominated by AC or ACE links, I don't know who there are...I can think of hmm......one person of about a dozen.

Jazz has no need to make strategic decisions with respect to the AC agreement, AC is the customer, they make the strategic decisions, and Jazz supplies the aircraft.
 
avt007
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RE: New CRJ-705 For Air Canada Jazz

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:51 am

Just to clarify the maintenance side of things, Jazz does all it's own line maintenance and heavy maintenance on the Dashes and CRJs, with some contracted out to Exeltech, etc. Air Canada does not do any maintenance on the actual aircraft, but they do handle the rotable components.

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