747438
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One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:57 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7093795.stm

At last !
See JGHP1A, it's not the fault of BAA, but as stated before, the DfT make the rules. Hopefully,this will make everyone's life easier including mine
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:24 am



Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
Hopefully,this will make everyone's life easier including mine

And make all the Cabin Crews life harder as they struggle to find the space onboard again and put up with any annoyed passengers whos bags wont fit onboard when all the space has already been taken.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:29 am

Good. Sensible policies for a happier Britain !

Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
See JGHP1A, it's not the fault of BAA, but as stated before, the DfT make the rules. Hopefully,this will make everyone's life easier including mine

I will maintain to my dying breath that BAA insisted that the one-bag rule be put in place. The only reason it's being lifted now is because BAA are losing out on connecting traffic to CDG, AMS, FRA etc - it never has been about security, only profitability.
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Door5Right
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:06 pm

This is all very well but this is probably going to mean longer time now in the security queues. My recent trip returning from London Stansted took 46mins from joining the queue to reaching an X-ray machine. Will they be relaxing the 'shoes off' routine? Will BAA be putting on extra staff. There is absolutely nothing more maddening than queuing and queuing and reaching the X-ray machines only to find half of them unmanned through staffing problems.
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JGPH1A
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:18 pm



Quoting Door5right (Reply 3):
Will BAA be putting on extra staff.

Hehe. You made a funny.

Quoting Door5right (Reply 3):
staffing problems.

I guess you could call "being too tight-arsed to hire enough staff" a "staffing problem"  Smile
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:31 pm



Quoting 747438 (Thread starter):
See JGHP1A, it's not the fault of BAA, but as stated before, the DfT make the rules

I recall the previous discussion being referred to here, but I'm afraid that I had a tendency to agree with JGHP1A, in that it was at the very least, a very convenient (for them) imposition at the time.

I remember BA dropping the BFS-LHR route in 2001, a route which hadn't been profitable for them for many years, but which continued to be operated until after Sep. 11th of that year which afforded BA the perfect excuse to pull out.

Call me cynical if you must, but I do believe that JGHP1A is correct in maintaining a certain degree of suspicion when it comes to such matters, and at the end of the day although the DfT required the implementation of the rule, it would have been done in consultation with the airport operators, who may have seen an opportunity to make life rather easier for themselves a a consequence. I can see JGHP1As point.

Anyway,

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
Good. Sensible policies for a happier Britain !

I agree whole-heartedly.

Quoting APYu (Reply 1):
And make all the Cabin Crews life harder as they struggle to find the space onboard again and put up with any annoyed passengers whos bags wont fit onboard when all the space has already been taken.

Perhaps, but airline operators have been promoting this themselves anyway prior to the one-bag rule being implemented, in order to differentiate themselves from other operators and each other's carry-on bag rules, but ultimately to avoid the use of airport facilities and therefore in the long-term enabling them to renegotiate handling contracts, airport usage charges etc by their decreasing use of said facilities.

This was about giving passengers choice and more flexibility, but ultimately it was about the same old thing. Money, and how to save money, and ultimately how to make money without spending any.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:32 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
I guess you could call "being too tight-arsed to hire enough staff" a "staffing problem"

LOL.....A 5 year old could sort out the problems at BAA and their security lines!!! The problem is that you need educated and intelligent people to sort out complex issues such as scanning 2 bags per passenger OMG how will they cope .

Anyway sarcasm aside , its about time . Stupid rule in the first place. One small backpack and a laptop bag is all I take anyway so this 2 piece rule will fit me fine. Before I just put them in a black plastic bin liner and then separated them after security. So it wasn't really working anyway !!!
 
ba319-131
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:41 pm

About time too!

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
it never has been about security, only profitability.

- Agreed!
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747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:00 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The problem is that you need educated and intelligent people to sort out complex issues such as scanning 2 bags per passenger

An unfair comment !
 
mozart
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:02 pm

Finally!!!

It's been a farce anyway: "one bag" meant that I stuffed my second bag in the first one, which made it too big and complicated to look at through X-ray, so the security staff took out the second bag out of the first (and didn't mind, since I had complied with bringing only bag up to the scan). Of course there goes the argument "to speed things up".

As for the space on planes: given that all other European countries allow for two bags to be brought on board and that crews can perfectly manage, I don't see why leaving from a UK airport should suddenly pose a space problem. Or do they physically reduce the size of the overhead bins? And also: I can only bring one bag to security - but it's OK to use all the shops after security and to walk on board with four more huge shopping bags. How silly...

Whatever, this move is a sign of common sense, which leaves another bastion of absurdity to be taken down: why is it dangerous to transport a tube of toothpaste, but not dangerous to transport that same tube of toothpase in a little transparent plastic bag?

Thank god the IQ of most people working at security is one digit, so they don't realize how stupid the rules are they are enforcing.
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:07 pm



Quoting 747438 (Reply 8):
An unfair comment !

I do believe that the comment you're referring to was made with just the slightest hint of sarcasm.
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:07 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 9):
Thank god the IQ of most people working at security is one digit,

A sad and pathetic generalisation.

Quoting Mozart (Reply 9):
so they don't realize how stupid the rules are they are enforcing.

Really ? Would you care to clarify that ?
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:51 pm

Time will tell with the opening of T5 and the relaxed bag rule. At the moment LHR is best avoided . I never thought Id actually say that as I was brought up near LHR and worked there and loved it. I dont like what they have turned it into over the last 5-10 years. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes!!!
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:01 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 12):
Time will tell with the opening of T5 and the relaxed bag rule. At the moment LHR is best avoided . I never thought Id actually say that as I was brought up near LHR and worked there and loved it. I dont like what they have turned it into over the last 5-10 years. Hopefully they will learn from their mistakes!!!

Perhaps I am wrong, however over the years I've become of the impression that with development and expansion over the years, that there has been no clear intent to ensure that developed ares of the airport will operate in synergy with those under construction. Stick a bit on the side, and then another bit on the side of that and hope it all works fine.

As I say, I'm no expert on the pros and cons of construction or architecture, but it all appears to be a bit "thrown together" for want of a better phrase. I'll suggest AMS, for example, as to how airport development should be undertaken.

IMHO
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Rivet42
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:32 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 9):
Thank god the IQ of most people working at security is one digit, so they don't realize how stupid the rules are they are enforcing.

You should be ashamed of such a comment. How disgusting.

The problem with 'staffing' is the usual economic one - the pay is pathetic for this kind of work, but somehow BAA expect/hope to hire high-calibre individuals, who then have an utterly thankless task of enforcing rules that everyone hates, and dealing with the kind of attitude as expressed above. It's no surprise that it's difficult to hire enough people prepared to put up with that kind of work environment.

Yes, the 1 bag rule was absurd, and whilst was a kneejerk DfT reaction to a security 'situation', was in the end not about security itself but about the effective operation of the security screening process, regardless of the colateral damage (viz-a-viz overloading the baggage system 'downstairs').

Yes, I'm inclined to suspect BAA of being complicit, but I'm no flat-Earth dumbskull, and if the evidence/facts suggest otherwise, then I will accept that as I cannot prove otherwise.

Frankly I think this discussion should be about who should be running the security screening process in the first place, as that seems to be a far more important issue.

Riv'
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BDKLEZ
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:43 pm



Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 14):
Frankly I think this discussion should be about who should be running the security screening process in the first place, as that seems to be a far more important issue.

Well, who should be running it should be national government. But that's not going to happen either because if something were to make it through the security screening then the government would be responsible and accountable for that.

It's much easier to let the airport authorities make their own judgements (probable the cheapest) and by default save the government shed-loads of cash by not having to employ security civil servants at all ports of entry and exit.

We have Immigration Officers who are civilian employees of the government, why can't there be civil servant Security Officers.
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AndyEastMids
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:46 pm

Excellent news indeed, and a victory for common sense over mindless rules that effectively were put in place to make things easier for the BAA than to actually help passengers.

But does anyone see another revenue generating opportunity for Ryanair in all of this - one carry-on is "free", the second carry-on is £5. Come on, I wouldn't put it past O'Leary

Andy
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:54 pm



Quoting Mozart (Reply 9):
given that all other European countries allow for two bags to be brought on board and that crews can perfectly manage

They allow you to take them to the aircraft, all airlines do, but when the bins and cupboards are full all airlines, regardless of nationality will start moving things to the hold.

For the last few years in the UK we have been able to avoid that and avoided many an unhappy traveller having their bag replaced with a baggage receipt once onboard.

To all the crews here in the forum - please continue to remove things that there is not room, regardless of whether the passenger has one bag or two!!! Safety first.
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kanebear
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:08 pm



Quoting APYu (Reply 17):
They allow you to take them to the aircraft, all airlines do, but when the bins and cupboards are full all airlines, regardless of nationality will start moving things to the hold.

For the last few years in the UK we have been able to avoid that and avoided many an unhappy traveller having their bag replaced with a baggage receipt once onboard.

To all the crews here in the forum - please continue to remove things that there is not room, regardless of whether the passenger has one bag or two!!! Safety first.

In over one million miles of butt in seat flying I've only ever had bags 'gate-checked' on regional jets. Perhaps you're not happy about it but those of us that fly for business and only carry on due to time constraints will avoid LHR or not fly altogether if it becomes too difficult.

LHR needs to institute something like CLEAR here in the US... have registered traveller lanes to keep the people needing to get somewhere separate from the VFR and holidaymaking people. That would be a policy I wouldn't mind. Registered travellers get two bags, unregistered only get one.
 
747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:29 pm



Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
have registered traveller lanes to keep the people needing to get somewhere separate from the VFR and holidaymaking people.

Elitism ?
People going on holiday need to get somewhere too !
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:04 pm



Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
LHR needs to institute something like CLEAR here in the US... have registered traveller lanes to keep the people needing to get somewhere separate from the VFR and holidaymaking people. That would be a policy I wouldn't mind. Registered travellers get two bags, unregistered only get one.

Sounds like a good idea. People that travel 2 or 3 times a week or more should have the oppertunity to pay for ''fast track'' . The people going on holidays normally only do it 2-3 times per year so dont have the stress of commuting through BAA airports. It does make sense and as stated other countries have already implemented it. These lanes tend to be quicker also as people are used to what needs to be done when passing through security. Clean out all your pockets before getting to the lane and make sure all liquids under 100ml are in the re sealable bag . Makes life quicker.

The number of times Im delayed at security check points while some guy gets scanned 2 or three times because he has not removed keys or his belt just adds to the ques.
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:30 pm



Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
In over one million miles of butt in seat flying I've only ever had bags 'gate-checked' on regional jets

You're lucky - I love my Monday mornings on a BA Domestic - people would fight to the death for carry on space - its trememendous entertainment to watch. And just when its all calmed down lots of late connecting pax arrive and it all starts over

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
people needing to get somewhere

Do you not just end up all on the same plane? Do you really have to rush to the lounge? Or where is it you are rushing to that others arent. I often feel many business folk (me and my colleagues included) rush through try to get a few more free drinks or a few more nibbles.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
The number of times Im delayed at security check points while some guy gets scanned 2 or three times because he has not removed keys or his belt just adds to the ques

ITs also funny to watch the security guys just hold up businessmen because theyve been rude to them or to see if they can raise their blood pressure any further. I guess thats their perk of the job. Watching the 'Do you know who I am' brigade getting pulled aside for special treatment. It really is sometimes better not to be in a rush at some airports.

Anyway guys I hope from January your journeys are easier. It will be interesting to see how the additional security measures also announced today such as increased security checking before people get into the terminal will affect other parts of the journey
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
standby87
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
The only reason it's being lifted now is because BAA are losing out on connecting traffic to CDG, AMS, FRA etc - it never has been about security, only profitability.

Spot on mate! My next amibition is to see all security check points manned at a BAA Airport...but I'm not holding my breath.

[Edited 2007-11-14 12:32:36]
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:37 pm



Quoting Standby87 (Reply 22):
Spot on mate! My next amibition is to see all security check points manned at a BAA Airport...but I'm not holding my breath.

Please please do not ask the impossible . Manned security check points .....you mean ALL security check points manned!!!! If that happens then I will ...........well I will do something LOL...... More chance of all tills manned at Tescos then there is at LHR !!!
 
747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:39 pm



Quoting Standby87 (Reply 22):
My next amibition is to see all security check points manned at a BAA Airport



Quoting OA260 (Reply 23):
you mean ALL security check points manned!!!! If that happens then I will ...........well I will do something LOL...

Shame you weren't both at T3 last week then .

Quoting APYu (Reply 21):
ITs also funny to watch the security guys just hold up businessmen because theyve been rude to them

Would never happen  Wink  liar 
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:41 pm

Moving to 2 pieces is unnecssary and a step backward, in my opinion. It will simply create even bigger security queues, and more tempers to flare, because some people will presume it means that they can take 3 pieces, or oversized pieces, or that the liquids rules no longer apply to them. It's bad enough now trying to get people to comply... There is simply no justifiable reason to revert to 2 pieces...

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 2):
I will maintain to my dying breath that BAA insisted that the one-bag rule be put in place. The only reason it's being lifted now is because BAA are losing out on connecting traffic to CDG, AMS, FRA etc - it never has been about security, only profitability.

You are certainly one-of-a-kind, refusing to accept what is fact, and sticking to blind hatred!

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
I guess you could call "being too tight-arsed to hire enough staff" a "staffing problem"

Hmmm? Employing over 1,000 extra staff, and still recruiting. Getting in the latest technology to join the fight against terrorism, and make processing a speedier and more secure process.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
A 5 year old could sort out the problems at BAA and their security lines!!! The problem is that you need educated and intelligent people to sort out complex issues such as scanning 2 bags per passenger OMG how will they cope

A post written by someone who obviously hasn't yet reached the age of maturity - enjoy kindergarten!

Quoting Mozart (Reply 9):
Thank god the IQ of most people working at security is one digit, so they don't realize how stupid the rules are they are enforcing.

I would challenge you to try and work in the intense environment that is security, and I'd bet you go crying for your mamma!

Quoting BDKLEZ (Reply 13):
I'll suggest AMS, for example, as to how airport development should be undertaken.

But you forget that LHR is an airport that is highly regulated in every way, shape and form, and has extremely limited physical space or growth. Sure, it's easy to criticise, but I'd bet, given the amazing growth air travel has seen, and that no-one could predict, when the LHR perimeter was being set, even the best planners in the world would make the same mistakes.

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 14):
the pay is pathetic for this kind of work, but somehow BAA expect/hope to hire high-calibre individuals, who then have an utterly thankless task of enforcing rules that everyone hates, and dealing with the kind of attitude as expressed above. It's no surprise that it's difficult to hire enough people prepared to put up with that kind of work environment.

Thank you! The pay isn't bad (although it's certainly not great), but dealing with closed minds is incredibly difficult.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 18):
LHR needs to institute something like CLEAR here in the US... have registered traveller lanes to keep the people needing to get somewhere separate from the VFR and holidaymaking people. That would be a policy I wouldn't mind. Registered travellers get two bags, unregistered only get one.

Which all takes space, a commodity the airport simply does not have. T5 and Heathrow East are steps in the right direction, and the revamping of T3 & T4 should (hopefully) also keep the ball rolling. However, allowing some people 2 bags and others 1 is definately not the way forward - simply creates more problems.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
The number of times Im delayed at security check points while some guy gets scanned 2 or three times because he has not removed keys or his belt just adds to the ques.



Quoting OA260 (Reply 20):
These lanes tend to be quicker also as people are used to what needs to be done when passing through security. Clean out all your pockets before getting to the lane and make sure all liquids under 100ml are in the re sealable bag . Makes life quicker. The number of times Im delayed at security check points while some guy gets scanned 2 or three times because he has not removed keys or his belt just adds to the ques.

And you think this will stop when 2 pieces are allowed through? Come on! Even the most frequent flyer forgets to check his keys, phone, liquids, knives, and causes the queues to grow....

BAA are not perfect - far from it - but the rules and regulations come from the DfT - pure and simple. Aim your anger at them, not the poor buggers on the frontline who have to enforce the rules, because they are LAW!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:46 pm



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
There is simply no justifiable reason to revert to 2 pieces...

Commercial pressures from the airlines would be my first guess for the reason. They are losing too many pax to other hubs. But im with you on this one.

P.S. Last Saturday - All Security Checkpoints open at BAA's Gatwick
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:48 pm



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
A post written by someone who obviously hasn't yet reached the age of maturity - enjoy kindergarten!

Well you would say that seeing as you are not ''un biased'' due to your job that you do . I would expect you to say something to support your profession but I wouldn't expect you to make personal insults !!! So please DONT .

Quoting 747438 (Reply 24):
Shame you weren't both at T3 last week then .

Not really. My last experience at T3 a few weeks back put the final nail in the coffin for my love of LHR !!!! It was a disastrous experience and the place was chaos. Read my Trip report.
 
747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:49 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
Quoting 747438 (Reply 24):
Shame you weren't both at T3 last week then .

Not really.

All lanes were open !
 
mutu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:49 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 23):
Please please do not ask the impossible . Manned security check points .....you mean ALL security check points manned!!!! If that happens then I will ...........well I will do something LOL...... More chance of all tills manned at Tescos then there is at LHR !!!

well clearly I understand this sentiment and BAA's performance over the past year since the rule was introduced has been pretty shocking.

BUT we should also remember that the process to security vet a new recruit for this workl can take up to 3 months (you can thank Capita for that) and then they need job training, another 3 months, before they are proficient to operate xray. So whilst they have recruited hunderds more staff they are only slowly appearing in the system.

On a second positive note the new machines being (slowly) installed at LHR are amongst the most sophisticated in the world. There is no need to remove laptops from bags, no need to remove shoes, no need to separate liquids. HOWEVER ironically if all of these benefits were introduced to the process there is a concern that it would confuse passengers now that most of the worlds airports have adopted the shoes off and liquids and lap tops out rules. So I guess they will never win.

T5 is the first purpose build terminal since the new security procedures and it is encouraging to see there are 14 security lines (excluding connection centre lines) installed in the terminal. A good start. The question is: will they be manned!!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:54 pm



Quoting 747438 (Reply 24):
Shame you weren't both at T3 last week then .

Oh no - that's rarer than a full 9 planet alignment - must have been the 5 seconds between shifts before those going off shift left and those coming on shift scarpered for the mandatory half-hourly hour-long coffee break, leaving the YTS kid and two cleaning ladies to man the checkpoints  Smile

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
You are certainly one-of-a-kind, refusing to accept what is fact, and sticking to blind hatred!

I don't hate anyone - I just get very annoyed when people deny the painfully and unavoidably obvious. If every other airport in the known universe can perfectly well manage to allow people to have 2 carry ons, why not the UK ? The UK government has nothing to gain by this regulation, but BAA have lots to gain, mostly money. The priority here is obvious.

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
and still recruiting.

After how many years has it been ? Still recruiting ? Try harder.

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
to join the fight against terrorism,

 Yeah sure Yeah whatever. The fight to get people to spend more time in the shops, more like. Let's not turn what is merely a mildly annoying irrelevance into some kind of mission to save mankind. Let me know when they actually catch someone, I'll send donuts.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:12 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
If every other airport in the known universe can perfectly well manage to allow people to have 2 carry ons, why not the UK ?

Funny that was what the CNN reporter said this evening when they reported the new rules from January.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
After how many years has it been ? Still recruiting ? Try harder.

Exactly . If as Mutu says it takes 3 months to train and 3 months for security clearance then why not plan 9 months before to make sure they are in place when they are needed. (if its a staffing issue ). BTW Mutu not disagreeing with you, I found your post very interesting and was very well balanced. Hopefully T5 will be everything BAA say it will be because if its not they will be hammered!!!
 
JGPH1A
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:24 pm



Quoting Mutu (Reply 29):
now that most of the worlds airports have adopted the shoes off and liquids and lap tops out rules

Actually it seems like quite a lot of them have quietly dropped these rules again. Haven't taken my shoes off at a European airport in months, even going to TLV on LY - ditto liquids out, just recently. The laptop still has to make an appearance though. The nice man at LY security even vacuumed the toast crumbs out of the keyboard - valet service !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
EI564
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:28 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
The UK government has nothing to gain by this regulation, but BAA have lots to gain, mostly money.

This is a rather overplayed card. How much money could be made from passengers having 1 bag instead of 2 bags? Its not as if the baa couldn't realise that without the rest of the world playing along, the rule would be incredibly unpopular with passengers and airlines.

And of course, because of the way that the baa is regulated, if they did make a lot more money from commercial activities, they would be required to decrease airport charges to compensate. (They are targeted to achieve a set rate of return).

Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 25):
Moving to 2 pieces is unnecssary and a step backward, in my opinion.

I don't agree with this though. This change will make the UK consistent with the rest of the world (thus it will have no more difficulty with people carrying liquids/3 pieces/oversized pieces than any other airport). That should make it a lot easier for passengers. Consistency..its priceless.
 
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:32 pm



Quoting EI564 (Reply 34):
How much money could be made from passengers having 1 bag instead of 2 bags?

The theory being that with only one bag per pax, they would need fewer checkpoints and fewer staff to process the same number of passengers. Or at least, manage the new more complex regulations with the same number of check-points and staff. This is cost saving, or at least cost-avoidance, not revenue gain.
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:33 pm



Quoting EI564 (Reply 34):
Consistency..its priceless.

Indeed. You get off a flight from LA and transiting to DUB at LHR . They make you check the 2nd bag when you get to LHR no matter how small !!! Great system ......and really encourages transit passengers.
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:42 pm

But guys, the BAA security only really need to be fully manned during short rush hour periods between probably 7 and 9am and then again between 5 and 7pm. Between those times the airports dont need them to be fully manned. BAA cant recruit people to work two hours in the morning and two in the afternoon coz no-one would do it. And the other option would be of course to employ these people on longer shifts have these people to do other random security checks at other points in the airport during non rush hour periods. Would this not p*** you guys off too?

You cant just have people hanging around for the peaks. It would be great if traffic was constant but thats rarely the case. Would you employ people i your own businesses to hang around for hours in case they were needed?

Important business men dont see the places at 2pm on a Wednesday when the airports can be quite empty,

I agree to a point BAA were slow to respond and I would even dare to suggest they hid behind the rules for a certain period of time in the hope the problems would go away. But there are noticeably more staff on duty these days and there will always be queues but all anyone can do is be patient or choose another gateway hub.

What in 6 years time and due to global warming Schipol is underwater due to flooding. Will the Dutch be accused of not recruituing enough water pumpers quick enough. Will traffic then return to LHR? Time will tell
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:51 pm



Quoting APYu (Reply 36):
But guys, the BAA security only really need to be fully manned during short rush hour periods between probably 7 and 9am and then again between 5 and 7pm.

Those are the short-haul peaks. What about the peaks for transatlantics around 9-12 ? It depends on the terminal when the peaks are. There should be standards set for maximum wait time at any period of the day, not just an overall average, and the maximum wait time should never exceed 10 minutes. If BAA can't manage that, then they should be replaced by a more efficient organization that can.
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:52 pm

Can anyone who has been thru (recently) or works at T2 LHR answer me this. What time does security open in the mornings??? I have avoided T2 for a while now due to the fact that they only opened the security at 0515am and there was a huge que in the mornings waiting to get through security. I always thought this was a bad idea and that they should open the security check points at 430am to avoid everyone all creating massive ques. Many a time I had to stand for over half an hour waiting for the shutters to raise or risk being stuck at the back of an endless que.
 
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:16 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 34):
The theory being that with only one bag per pax, they would need fewer checkpoints and fewer staff to process the same number of passengers.

Because they are regulated, any (justifable) increase in costs will be recouped via airport charges. (It might be a bit more complicated than that for the short term but definitely in the medium to long term).

Given the fact that this rule was as a result of those terrorist scares, when security was tightened, I can accept that the baa would have needed more checkpoints/staff quickly to deal with the new security regulations. But since it would take time to introduce these new checkpoints/staff, there would have to be a lag period. baa might have hid behind the rules but i've yet to see any real indication that they went out of their way to exploit the rules.
 
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 am



Quoting Mutu (Reply 29):
HOWEVER ironically if all of these benefits were introduced to the process there is a concern that it would confuse passengers now that most of the worlds airports have adopted the shoes off and liquids and lap tops out rules.

OK, let's give the everage traveler some credit. Many of us fly in and out of airports all over the world and some have shoes-off and some have shoes-on rules. It's not hard to figure out which are which when we arrive. We're not confused, just annoyed.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 37):
There should be standards set for maximum wait time at any period of the day,

Bingo.

Quoting EI564 (Reply 39):
this rule was as a result of those terrorist scares

The liquid events of 2006? Then you mean media scares. There were no credible or real terrorist scares that led to the imposition of perhaps the world's silliest rule.

Quoting 747438 (Reply 24):
747438

I don't think you should be taking offense to the generalised insults toward airport security screeners, but one has to admit that worldwide, they are evidently not a bunch that are encouraged to have an independent thought on the job. My encounters with what I assume are normally intelligent people have left me shaking my head countless times when they fail to employ common sense with respect of their own rules.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:11 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
Let's not turn what is merely a mildly annoying irrelevance into some kind of mission to save mankind. Let me know when they actually catch someone, I'll send donuts.

Well I hope you never have to buy those doughnuts. A vast majority of the procedures are about prevention.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 40):
My encounters with what I assume are normally intelligent people have left me shaking my head countless times when they fail to employ common sense with respect of their own rules.

I can understand your frustration, but I can assure you, if common sense was not applied during the screening process, then the queues would be far longer, the experience far worse and the instances of passengers having to leave items behind far greater.
 
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 am



Quoting 747438 (Reply 41):
A vast majority of the procedures are about prevention.

Doesn't make it any less annoying. I have boarded over 700 flights and, miraculously, not one of them has ever blown up or been flown into a building. I think I should get some credit for that, not treated like some average herd-member. How about a trusted-traveller program ? As a law-abiding citizen I feel I've earned the right to be trusted.
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747438
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:02 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 42):
have boarded over 700 flights and, miraculously, not one of them has ever blown up or been flown into a building. I think I should get some credit for that

As should the screeers  Wink
 
cornish
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:03 am

I have to admit, as a regular LHR traveller, I've noticed a marked improvement in the speed I'm getting through security of late. A lot of recent trips at varying times of the day, but generally during the peaks, have seen me through with far less delay than I've encountered at peak hours in the likes of AMS or FCO, where i had some truly awful long waits. Compared to those, the speed in which i went through at LHR has been good by comparison, and a lot quicker than it used to be. The staff are professional enough too, and again haven't seen anything to complain about.

Mind you, all my recent trips have been out of T1, T2 and T4, and I'll be doing T3 next week, so I'll be interested to see how that goes, as its often regarded as the worst.

On ther other hand however LGW North Terminal has got absolutely awful during the peaks - makes LHR seem a joy by comparison - the queues are enormous.....



One thing I don't understand however - all this talk of it suiting BAA to have minimal security operators (and its well known that its extremely difficult to get and retain security staff at airports in the UK) - unless i'm missing a trick here, I'd have thought they'd be delighted to get people through security as quick as possible. Delay the passengers too long at security and there's less opportunity for them to spend money airside.
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EI564
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:42 am



Quoting Cornish (Reply 44):
Delay the passengers too long at security and there's less opportunity for them to spend money airside.

Very true. I would also have thought that a stressed person is less likely to shop on average.

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 40):
There were no credible or real terrorist scares that led to the imposition of perhaps the world's silliest rule.

Possible but not particularly relevant. Except if you think the baa created the whole event.  Wink
 
APYu
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:48 am



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 40):
The liquid events of 2006? Then you mean media scares. There were no credible or real terrorist scares that led to the imposition of perhaps the world's silliest rule.

So why are 10 people in prison in the UK awaiting trial for plotting to blow up up to a dozen transatlantic planes by mixing their own chemicals on board the planes?
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LHRBlueSkies
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:08 am



Quoting EI564 (Reply 39):

Because they are regulated, any (justifable) increase in costs will be recouped via airport charges. (It might be a bit more complicated than that for the short term but definitely in the medium to long term).

Given the fact that this rule was as a result of those terrorist scares, when security was tightened, I can accept that the baa would have needed more checkpoints/staff quickly to deal with the new security regulations. But since it would take time to introduce these new checkpoints/staff, there would have to be a lag period. baa might have hid behind the rules but i've yet to see any real indication that they went out of their way to exploit the rules.

Thank you for an educated posting!

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 40):

The liquid events of 2006? Then you mean media scares. There were no credible or real terrorist scares that led to the imposition of perhaps the world's silliest rule.

Jeez, are you serious?! Tell that to the people standing trial in the UK for terrorist action! Tell that to the police and secret service officers who infiltrated these cells and stopped 10 a/c being brought down!

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 40):
they fail to employ common sense with respect of their own rules.

Yeah, 'cos it's real easy to bend the rules with the DfT monitoring every move they make!!! Unfotunately, the rules are actually UK law, and so are not open to an individuals interpretation.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 42):
I have boarded over 700 flights and, miraculously, not one of them has ever blown up or been flown into a building. I think I should get some credit for that, not treated like some average herd-member. How about a trusted-traveller program ? As a law-abiding citizen I feel I've earned the right to be trusted.

And you don't think trusted-traveller schemes could be infiltrated by those wanting to commit attrocities? Who says you are law-abiding? I'll bet you speed in your car - isn't that law-breaking? Unfortunately, due to the recent attacks, people are trained to think'what if'....

Quoting 747438 (Reply 43):
As should the screeers  

LOL!!!! And actually, a lot of passengers actually appreciate the level of security, as it makes them feel safe...unless of course they are JGPH1A, who thinks they are above the rules and better than everyone else...!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
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OA260
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:22 am



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 47):
unless of course they are JGPH1A, who thinks they are above the rules and better than everyone else...!



Quoting LHRBlueSkies (Reply 47):
Thank you for an educated posting!

Says it all really  Yeah sure  Yeah sure
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: One Bag Rule To Be Relaxed In The UK

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:37 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 48):
Says it all really

Pot, kettle, black?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 35):
They make you check the 2nd bag when you get to LHR no matter how small

Wrong - now no limit to number of pieces in transit, only limited to 1 if you join...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 31):
why not plan 9 months before to make sure they are in place when they are needed.

yeah, cos it's real easy to predict what terrorists will come up with to beat the system so far in advance...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
I wouldn't expect you to make personal insults

but then you have posted this...??

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The problem is that you need educated and intelligent people to sort out complex issues such as scanning 2 bags per passenger OMG how will they cope .

No-one is saying BAA are perfect, far from it, but what you and a few others are ignoring ia that they don't pick & choose which law's they are going to adhere to, that terminal space is severley limited, and as stated previously, no-one could have predicted the massive increase in air travel 20, 30, 40 years ago.... and if you think it's easy being a security operative, then come and join the ranks, because dealing with self-righteous business travellers, foreign-nationals who can't/won't communicate, and every other type of flyer isn't easy. The security staff aren't perfect, there are always bad apples in every profession, but things are (slowly) changing and for the better....and T5 should prove the way forward for BAA and LHR.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!