jfk787nyc
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Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:24 pm

Why isnt Virgin Atlantic an offical member of SkyTeam, when as a SkyTeam member you could get miles on all Virgin Atlantic flights?
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:33 pm

SkyTeam members are airlines.

Individuals earn miles.

That said, VS has a lot invested in being the independent, slightly brash player at LHR. They also have links to some STAR airlines, I think including SQ and NZ. Someone else could elaborate on this.
 
airways45
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:33 pm

Two reasons:

1) Virgin Atlantic is very anti-alliances. They believe that they limit competition. They were against BA/AA in the 1990s.
2) They are owned 49% by Singapore Airlines that belongs to Star Alliance. So, while Virgin is left alone by Singapore, they are more likely to join Star than Skyteam in my view. However, I don't see them joining an alliance.

Airways45
 
higherflyer
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:56 pm



Quoting Airways45 (Reply 2):
They are owned 49% by Singapore Airlines that belongs to Star Alliance. So, while Virgin is left alone by Singapore, they are more likely to join Star than Skyteam in my view. However, I don't see them joining an alliance.

I would think that there could possibly be an issue with BMI's membership in Star Alliance precluding a Virgin membership.
 
Joost
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:16 pm

It's often said that especially LH does not want to have Virgin in StarAlliance, as they will be a too big competitor to them on the Europe-US market.
 
PanAm747
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:07 pm

Let us also remember that under Bermuda II, none of the SkyTeam airlines could fly to Heathrow. Only Virgin Atlantic could. Not a great way to enter a partnership...

And let us also remember that Continental would NEVER have approved Virgin's entry - remember the Virgin Nigeria and Virgin America feud? WAY too much bad blood on that one.
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Curiousflyer
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:27 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
And let us also remember that Continental would NEVER have approved Virgin's entry - remember the Virgin Nigeria and Virgin America feud? WAY too much bad blood on that one.

Not that simple... CO codeshares with VS to LHR, and this has been going on for years.

VS is seating between SkyTeam and Star Alliance, but I agreee they are simply not interested in alliances, also they are not exactly a mainstream carrier, their product is very different, with an image that emphasizes inflight massages, lounge jaccuzzi and motorbike transfers...

One thing is very likely: they won't join Oneworld, at least as long as BA is part of it!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:20 pm



Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 6):
but I agreee they are simply not interested in alliances

...be interesting to see whether/how that changes with the onset of OpenSkies.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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OA260
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:31 pm



Quoting Higherflyer (Reply 3):
I would think that there could possibly be an issue with BMI's membership in Star Alliance precluding a Virgin membership.

BMI seem to have a good relationship with VS they are a partner for BMI Diamond Club and you can earn miles on VS. BMI Gold card holders even have access to the Clubhouse when flying VS .
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:39 pm



Quoting Higherflyer (Reply 3):
I would think that there could possibly be an issue with BMI's membership in Star Alliance precluding a Virgin membership.

Why would that be?
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:18 am

So, no of "my alliance bigger than yours" to come soon then...
When I doubt... go running!
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:40 am

If I am a Delta SKYMILES member can I get miles on all flight on Virgin Atlantic?
 
star_world
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:48 am



Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 11):
If I am a Delta SKYMILES member can I get miles on all flight on Virgin Atlantic?

See here: http://www.delta.com/skymiles/ways_t...g_miles_partners/airline_partners/
VS are the last airline on the page.

Aren't you the one that started this thread saying that you can earn miles on VS flights as a Skyteam cardholder?  Smile
 
goldorak
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:29 am



Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
Why isnt Virgin Atlantic an offical member of SkyTeam, when as a SkyTeam member you could get miles on all Virgin Atlantic flights?

If you're a flying blue member (AF/KL) you cannot earn miles on VS
 
laxagent
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:43 am



Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 6):
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
And let us also remember that Continental would NEVER have approved Virgin's entry - remember the Virgin Nigeria and Virgin America feud? WAY too much bad blood on that one.

Not that simple... CO codeshares with VS to LHR, and this has been going on for years.

VS is seating between SkyTeam and Star Alliance, but I agreee they are simply not interested in alliances, also they are not exactly a mainstream carrier, their product is very different, with an image that emphasizes inflight massages, lounge jaccuzzi and motorbike transfers...

One thing is very likely: they won't join Oneworld, at least as long as BA is part of it!

SQ also codeshares along with CO on VS on LHR-LAX-LHR flights
LAX
 
Joost
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:55 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5):
Let us also remember that under Bermuda II, none of the SkyTeam airlines could fly to Heathrow. Only Virgin Atlantic could. Not a great way to enter a partnership...

None of the American SkyTeam airlines could fly to Heathrow... The European SkyTeam airlines (AF, KL, SU, AZ, OK) all have regular service to LHR. Of these airlines, SU, AZ and OK all don't have such an extensive American network and they could greatly benefit from VS, for example, offering PRG-LHR-SFO.

Quoting CuriousFlyer (Reply 6):
Not that simple... CO codeshares with VS to LHR, and this has been going on for years.

The VS-CO codeshare is a very interesting exception on the Bermuda II agreement. In practically all ASA's, a codeshare flight is no different from a flight operated with a carriers' own planes. So actually, the CO codeshare on VS flights is not allowed. I have not yet found the exact ins and outs of the agreement, but it seems to be some political compromise.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ZCK/is_6_11/ai_70392899
BD has objected to this codeshare, as they are not allowed to put their code on the UA flights to LHR. NW, for example, is not allowed to put it's code on KLs AMS-LHR flight either (whereas they do put their code on all other AMS-UK flights, including AMS-LCY, as for all airports except LHR/LGW, the UK has practically an open-skies agreement).

VS in Staralliance would greatly benefit BD, as they would have a very good feed for their European network. However, they would compete with LH within the alliance.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Why Not In SkyTeam?

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:57 am



Quoting JFK787NYC (Thread starter):
Why isnt Virgin Atlantic an offical member of SkyTeam, when as a SkyTeam member you could get miles on all Virgin Atlantic flights?

Obviously OW is out as BA is a member of that... so of ST and *A, *A is definantly the stronger suitor for VS for several reasons. 1) SQ owns half of VS currently and is blocking it from joining *A. SQ is looking at offloading this shareholding however. 2) NZ has strong links with VS albeit mostly loose ones but they complement each other well (in fact there have been several suggestions in other threads that NZ and VS might make a good match ie NZ buys out SQs stake and VS buys a stake of NZ from the NZ govt they would be good feeders to each other via HKG and PVG. NZ has licensed VS seats and they have other things in common. 3) VS or RB etc owns a good stake in DJ (Virgin Blue Australia). Australia is dominated by QF which is a big member of OW. If VS joins *A then expect DJ to also join (with encouragement from NZ who are desparate for an Australian feeder...once again brings up the opportunity for NZ to buy out Toll holdings stake in DJ). 4) BD is an interesting carrier that VS has been looking at... if VS could buy BD then they would have the domestic and European feed that they have been looking for as well as backdoor entry into *A via BD. ST just does not have much to offer VS quite frankly.. But stranger things have happened...
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