jamie86
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Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:28 am

When Qantas starts flying from Sydney to Santiago next year, will the flight path take it over NZ?
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JGPH1A
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:31 am

I think it's just a codeshare with LA, isn't it ? The flight stops in AKL en-route.
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anstar
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:38 am



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 1):
I think it's just a codeshare with LA, isn't it ? The flight stops in AKL en-route.

QF have announced they will fly SYD-SCL from November next year with their own metal.
 
jamie86
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:44 am

Apparently once we get the a380 and it starts taking over the flights to LAX from MEL and SYD that will free up some 744ERs to fly SYD-SCL direct.
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Motorhussy
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:07 am

So if it's a SYD-SCL non-stop, no it doesn't fly over New Zealand skies:



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MH
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:45 am



Quoting Jamie86 (Reply 3):
Apparently once we get the a380 and it starts taking over the flights to LAX from MEL and SYD that will free up some 744ERs to fly SYD-SCL direct.

That was the impression that I got... and what makes sense since LA already codeshare with QF SYD-AKL-SCL.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 4):
So if it's a SYD-SCL non-stop, no it doesn't fly over New Zealand skies:

Yes and no... sure great circle etc takes it to the South... however for various reasons (no alternates, winds, weather etc etc) the route is likely to be more Northerly than the Great Circle. Also for the SCL-SYD sector due to headwinds it is almost certainly to be more North than the SYD-SCL route. That way if needs be the aircraft can make a splash and dash gas stop in either AKL or CHC...more likely CHC however. The ER is however very capable of flying these sectors year round with good payloads and may only be restricted occasionally (storm/strong headwinds).
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:47 am

Why is QF entering a market that has only one other airline, that is in the same alliance??? Yes I know LAN goes via AKl which is even more likely to kill them off the route. Seems pretty pointless...
 
vheca
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:50 am

Could QF be scheduling these routes for more of a numbers exerise for the newer aircraft in the future?

It is good to see the red tail getting back out internationally and not under codeshare, but it does seem to be an interesting decision.

Any one else?

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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:22 am



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):

I think that QF's product will be far superior, if they use the 744ER. Remember before the alliances, QF flew there anyway. I think they could have remained flying there but probably left LA to it when the OneWorld alliance was formed. If they didn't have any 744ERs free and had to go through AKL, I'd think LA would cease their SCL-AKL-SYD route. I can't think of any other flights that are provided of two airlines of the same alliance but it could be a move to promote South America to you Aussies, and vice versa. They codeshare at the moment anyway, which could suggest that the QF management believe it would be sufficient to put their own metal on this flight. This way, LA can still pick up the NZ pax until Air NZ fly to South America, which seems quite likely within the next 10 years (probably less).

I wonder if they would try a round the world flight by linking JNB with SCL sometime..
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Motorhussy
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:13 am



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
If they didn't have any 744ERs free and had to go through AKL, I'd think LA would cease their SCL-AKL-SYD route.

They don't need 744ER's for this route; standard 744's suffice fine except for in extraordinary circumstances. Guess QF feel they'll have the Ozzie pulling power if they go non-stop rather than via AKL. The AKL and SYD must make it more attractive for South American travellers though.

I wonder what NZ's got up its sleeves with regard to LatAm once the 789's arrive? And how long will they have to have them before they can start flying them unrestricted? The following map shows flights from AKL to SCL, EZE and GRU. The dark shaded area indicates 240minute ETOPS the lighter, 180. Quite a hike around the latter.



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MH
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Mendaero
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:31 am



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):
Why is QF entering a market that has only one other airline, that is in the same alliance??? Yes I know LAN goes via AKl which is even more likely to kill them off the route. Seems pretty pointless...

I think you will find that the LA A340 will be replaced by the QF 744.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:54 am



Quoting Mendaero (Reply 10):
I think you will find that the LA A340 will be replaced by the QF 744.

No this is not the case.
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:21 am



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 9):
They don't need 744ER's for this route; standard 744's suffice fine except for in extraordinary circumstances. Guess QF feel they'll have the Ozzie pulling power if they go non-stop rather than via AKL. The AKL and SYD must make it more attractive for South American travellers though.

Haha yeah I figured it out after I had posted it..

Where are VARIG's hubs? That would me one of my first picks (GIG/GRU?) unless they want to take on AR and LA/QF to EZE and SCL.
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Gemuser
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:27 am



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 9):
I wonder what NZ's got up its sleeves with regard to LatAm once the 789's arrive? And how long will they have to have them before they can start flying them unrestricted? The following map shows flights from AKL to SCL, EZE and GRU. The dark shaded area indicates 240minute ETOPS the lighter, 180. Quite a hike around the latter.

Will the NZ civil aviation authority approve ETOPS 240 or even ETOPS 180 this far south? Does NZ have any special restrictions south of 55S?

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DavidByrne
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:55 am

I had been under the impression that the LA A340 service to SCL would stay at daily, and that the new QF service was also going to be via AKL, 3x weekly. However, checking the airline's press releases for 28 May they merely mention "direct" services between SYD and SCL, and don't mention frequency. Maybe I've constructed my "memory" in my head! In airline parlance, however, "direct" does not equate to "nonstop", but usually means a same-plane stopping service. It might be that the service is non-stop but they were being imprecise. Or it may mean that they do intend to have a stop en route - and AKL would be the logical point if they did. Can anyone provide a definite source from the airline as to what their intentions are?

The service is due to start in November 2008, and the Qantas timetable currently runs as far as 3 November 2008 - but there's no sign yet of these new flights. Maybe in a couple of weeks the answer will be clear?
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RichardJF
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:00 am

Let the existing business go after the vote. It's what he'll do imo. set up a new business gets all the costs out of it. You can pick out what you want and don't want.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:25 am



Quoting Jamie86 (Thread starter):
When Qantas starts flying from Sydney to Santiago next year, will the flight path take it over NZ?

There are about 5 routes across AKL-SCL, and I have personally flown on about 3 of those trajectories ex AKL so I expect there to be a Northerly route somewhere over WLG/Manawatu, a couple of middle routes over the South Island, and then a couple of really transpolar routings as per the Great circle mapper.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:49 am



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):
Why is QF entering a market that has only one other airline, that is in the same alliance??? Yes I know LAN goes via AKl which is even more likely to kill them off the route. Seems pretty pointless...

Because QF is looking at SYD-SCL direct rather than LAs SYD-AKL-SCL. QF has previously flown to SA via AKL and only pulled out to give LA a go at it (traffic has since grown significantly) and because QF needed to metal for other routes. The introduction of the A380 changes this however as the 744ERs will no longer be needed for the long LAX-MEL route freeing them up.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 9):
They don't need 744ER's for this route; standard 744's suffice fine except for in extraordinary circumstances. Guess QF feel they'll have the Ozzie pulling power if they go non-stop rather than via AKL. The AKL and SYD must make it more attractive for South American travellers though.

Correct for an AKL-SCL however QF is aparently looking at a direct SYD-SCL... an ordinary 744 can do it with payload restriction but for the SCL-SYD leg it would be severely restricted making it unviable. This is where the 744ER comes in as it can fly the route year round with good payload. On the odd occasion where it will suffer from particularly strong headwinds or other weather then it can either leave behind some payload in SCL (freight/pax) or it can land at CHC or AKL for a splash n dash gas stop.

With QF re-entering the market and with it likely to be operating direct rather than via AKL, it looks as if LA will likely drop its AKL-SYD-AKL tag flight and simply let pax transfer to one of QFs multiple AKL-SYD-AKL flights (or travel direct on QF) a lot of those pax do travel to other destinations such as MEL anyway and a lot do stay in AKL so there are several options there. The only other competition is of course AR which flies EZE-AKL-SYD-AKL-EZE. They will probably continue this flight although they may reduce the incidence of the AKL-SYD-AKL tag flight to 3x weekly and just sit the a/c on the ground in AKL the other days (maybe get NZ to do day to day mx on them).
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Motorhussy
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:39 am



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
t looks as if LA will likely drop its AKL-SYD-AKL



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
The only other competition is of course AR which flies EZE-AKL-SYD-AKL-EZE. They will probably continue this flight although they may reduce the incidence of the AKL-SYD-AKL tag flight to 3x weekly

And both of these airlines are allowed to operate in a fully unrestricted and competitive manner across the Tasman. SYD is more important to LA than AKL, can't see them giving it up for QF.

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AA767400
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:48 am



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):
Why is QF entering a market that has only one other airline, that is in the same alliance??? Yes I know LAN goes via AKl which is even more likely to kill them off the route. Seems pretty pointless...

QF knows that the market has grown and now want to get in on the action. It is a win win situation for both as both are Oneworld and share market with hubs at both ends.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):


I think that QF's product will be far superior, if they use the 744ER. Remember before the alliances, QF flew there anyway. I think they could have remained flying there but probably left LA to it when the OneWorld alliance was formed.

I don't know what airline you think LA is but they are right up there with QF in terms of many aspects. Maybe you are thinking of RG are something? LA has a modern fleet, great service, and great IFE. And QF dropped SCL way before Oneworld, but they did fly SYD-EZE via AKL or non-stop is what I don't remember.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:09 am



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 18):
And both of these airlines are allowed to operate in a fully unrestricted and competitive manner across the Tasman. SYD is more important to LA than AKL, can't see them giving it up for QF.

Yes they can do, but it doesn't mean they need to. SYD is not a big $ earner for them... in fact most pax are not transits but are local traffic on cheap airfares. LA codeshares with QF so they would still get revenue from putting their pax on a QF flight. The AKL-SCL flight is often delayed due to it arriving late into AKL (from either SCL then being late AKL-SYD-AKL) or just delayed out of SYD making the AKL-SCL departure also late (this is due to various issues but usually mx). They could have a flight that leaves SCL later stays on the ground in AKL (have light mx done by ANZES) then leave AKL back to SCL earlier than they currently do if they wanted. It would mean they would only need the 2 aircraft to operate the route rather than the 2 (+ standby capacity/delays).
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anstar
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:42 am



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 19):
I don't know what airline you think LA is but they are right up there with QF in terms of many aspects

you obviously haven't been on an LA AKL-SYD flight... they are pretty rubbish on this leg and their product on long haul is no where near the QF product
 
ozglobal
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:02 pm

I did SYD-AKL-SCL on LA in Jan. I thought to myself, looking at the AirShow, that we must be, at that moement, the most isolated passenger aircraft in the world as we passed close to Antartica on the map. Is this the case?
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LH459
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:30 pm



Quoting ANstar (Reply 21):
their product on long haul is no where near the QF product

I can't speak for the product on their A340s, but I've found their long haul service on the 763s to be absolutely exemplary. Certainly comparable with QF or any other major international carrier.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:00 pm



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 22):
I did SYD-AKL-SCL on LA in Jan. I thought to myself, looking at the AirShow, that we must be, at that moement, the most isolated passenger aircraft in the world as we passed close to Antartica on the map. Is this the case?

Apart from an AR A340 going SYD-AKL-EZE then yes I'd say so.
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threepoint
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:10 pm



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
I can't think of any other flights that are provided of two airlines of the same alliance

LH and AC both serve YYZ-FRA. LH will also join AC on the YYC-FRA route.
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:15 pm



Quoting NZ107 (Reply 8):
I can't think of any other flights that are provided of two airlines of the same alliance

QF/CX=BNE/SYD/MEL-HKG-LHR
QF/BA=SYD-BKK/SIN-LHR
QF/JL=SYD-NRT....

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
it looks as if LA will likely drop its AKL-SYD-AKL tag flight and simply let pax transfer to one of QFs multiple AKL-SYD-AKL flights

I'll miss seeing the LA A340 in SYD if it happens
 
anstar
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:01 pm



Quoting LH459 (Reply 23):
can't speak for the product on their A340s, but I've found their long haul service on the 763s to be absolutely exemplary.

there is the issue then.

This route is flown by the A340 which is old style cradle seats.

QF's 744er aircraft have lie flat seats and imho better catering
 
PanAm747
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:03 pm

What is the routing of LAN's SYD-SCL flight? What stops does it make enroute besides Auckland?

I know this route could be done with an A340 or 747 non-stop (obviously with no ETOPS issues), but is QF going for the non-stop business market?
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DavidByrne
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:06 pm



Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 22):
I did SYD-AKL-SCL on LA in Jan. I thought to myself, looking at the AirShow, that we must be, at that moement, the most isolated passenger aircraft in the world as we passed close to Antartica on the map. Is this the case?

I know how you feel. I once took an AR 747 from Ushaia bound for Auckland. I was one of only five pax to join there (it was essentially only a tech stop between BUE and AKL) and the terminal was little more than a large shed. Ushaia itself felt incredibly isolated, but when you took off for the south-west from there, you felt like you were really on your own!
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:17 am



Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 26):
QF/CX=BNE/SYD/MEL-HKG-LHR
QF/BA=SYD-BKK/SIN-LHR
QF/JL=SYD-NRT....

Oh, I was meaning a monopoly of the alliance: so TG would also fly SYD-BKK and SQ the SIN-LHR route..

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 29):

Damn one interesting flight.. USH-AKL..
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DavidByrne
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:50 am



Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 29):
I know how you feel. I once took an AR 747 from Ushaia bound for Auckland. I was one of only five pax to join there (it was essentially only a tech stop between BUE and AKL) and the terminal was little more than a large shed. Ushaia itself felt incredibly isolated, but when you took off for the south-west from there, you felt like you were really on your own!

Oh such embarrassment - of course it wasn't Ushaia, but Rio Gallegos (RGL)! I had been in Ushaia and flew to RGL in a Cessna twin - great flight over the mountains. There's no way that a 747 could ever have got out of USH with both runway length and topography . . .
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jetsetter629
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:56 am



Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
he introduction of the A380 changes this however as the 744ERs will no longer be needed for the long LAX-MEL route freeing them up.

Is this route strictly used by a 744ER? Do regular 744 fly the route? Also, where else in the network are the -ERs deployed?

Rob
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:00 am



Quoting ANstar (Reply 21):

Well, it's really hard to make that comparison, because you have an old establishment flying the route vs. a newbie. AKL-SYD has long been traversed by QF and through the years, they will learn to excel in the product. SYD-AKL en route to SCL is just another short hop milk run enroute to the key destination. Sure, if LAN wants to succeed in this market, they should always try to do better. The higher expectation should be centered on QF to do what it's done for so long. Isn't that true? Those that are essentially masters should continually prove themselves so. Those that are newer, give them a chance, they'll learn to get better through time. If not, it's their loss.

Live and learn . . . keep going to excel. That should always be the goal of any service providing business. Not just for the profit, but to give the best travel experience to those they serve.
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VHVXB
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:01 am



Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 32):
Do regular 744 fly the route?

with payload restrictions I believe

Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 32):
Also, where else in the network are the -ERs deployed?

predominately LAX
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:06 am

When will the 380s be deployed to LAX? That will be a wonder to see! QF should soon get their own remote terminal at LAX? Will that ever happen?
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:10 am



Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 32):
Is this route strictly used by a 744ER?

Yes. I'm pretty sure that the ER only flies SYD/MEL/(BNE?)-LAX, while the 744 does MEL-AKL-LAX. To my knowldedge, the ER is not weight restricted for this flight whereas a normal 744 would be.
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AA767400
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:29 am



Quoting ANstar (Reply 21):
you obviously haven't been on an LA AKL-SYD flight

I just love assumptions! I have traveled to Oz by way of many routes including this one.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 21):
they are pretty rubbish on this leg and their product on long haul is no where near the QF product

That is your opinion. I will give you that QF's cradle seat is superior to LA's seat. But when it comes to food,amenities,IFE, and customer service I will have to disagree on that. If anything AR would be the weakest link here.
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skyhigh
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:34 am

Why SCL and not EZE instead? It was my understanding that QF pulled out of Buenos Aires purely because it was short of planes.

The only reason that I can think of QF wanting SCL is to carry all of the passengers that use SCL to get to Brazil. From what I have heard, often the majority of the Lan flight is transferring on to either Sao Paulo or Rio. QF can then codeshare on LAN's connecting flights to Brazil.

I wonder which would be a bigger market for Australia, EZE or GRU?

Maybe I have answered my own question!!

Also, I have flown economy QF and LA often and I would happily fly LA before QF. The service is excellent, the legroom is good, they have AVOD and even the food is edible!
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:39 am

LA are certainly up to the standard of the QF product through AKL, and they currently have 3 classes.
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anstar
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:33 am



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 37):
I just love assumptions! I have traveled to Oz by way of many routes including this one.

And you think they provide great catering and service on the SYD-AKL leg?

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 37):
That is your opinion. I will give you that QF's cradle seat is superior to LA's seat.

QF would not be operating a Cradle Seat to SCL with the 744er, it would be a lie flat seat called skybed.

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 39):
LA are certainly up to the standard of the QF product through AKL, and they currently have 3 classes

I'm not talking about the current offering... the conversation was about QF flying SYD-SCL and my comment was that QF would have a better productin the 744er on the route against the LA 340.... and if you want to talk about 3 classes, the QF F product would als poop over the LAN F seat.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:30 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 28):
What is the routing of LAN's SYD-SCL flight? What stops does it make enroute besides Auckland?

I know this route could be done with an A340 or 747 non-stop (obviously with no ETOPS issues), but is QF going for the non-stop business market?

AKL only. QF will either fly direct or via AKL but most likely direct and not just for business... saves at least 2 hours.

Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 32):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
The introduction of the A380 changes this however as the 744ERs will no longer be needed for the long LAX-MEL route freeing them up.

Is this route strictly used by a 744ER? Do regular 744 fly the route? Also, where else in the network are the -ERs deployed?

pretty much... they are used almost exclusively MEL/SYD-LAX.
1xMEL-LAX,
1xLAX-MEL,
1xSYD-LAX,
1xLAX-SYD.
Each sector is between 13-15 hours long plus boarding/deboarding etc and they spend the day sitting on the ground at LAX often get mx done. That pretty much accounts for 6 frames.
Regular 744 often fly SYD-LAX-SYD but with some restriction. MEL-LAX-MEL however is quite severely restricted and often has to stop by in SYD or NAN on the way through if operated by non-ER aircraft.

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 34):
Quoting JetSetter629 (Reply 32):
Also, where else in the network are the -ERs deployed?

predominately LAX

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Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 35):
When will the 380s be deployed to LAX? That will be a wonder to see! QF should soon get their own remote terminal at LAX? Will that ever happen?

They are officially going to be used for their first scheduled services MEL-LAX-MEL once QF has 2 of them. Until that time they will be used on a variety of shortish flights (possibles incl SYD-SIN-SYD, SYD-PER-SYD etc whilst crews get familiar with them).
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
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NZ107
Posts: 4946
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RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:35 am



Quoting Skyhigh (Reply 38):

Well, considering QF has no current service to South America and will only have one after this, it makes sense going to the hub of an alliance member and then passengers can disperse from there. Flying into anywhere else and you may not have the same number of connections available. Also, as SCL is on the west of South America, there is no backtracking involved in flights, say if you wanted to go fo EZE but QF flew to GIG, you'd have to catch that extra flight back down to Buenos Aires whereas flying into SCL means you are not "wasting" time in backtracking. QF could possibly offer flights to GIG/GRU or EZE but making them known (again) on the continent before targeting places with less available connections will be a start.
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2511
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Qantas Sydney-Santiago

Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:52 am



Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 39):
LA are certainly up to the standard of the QF product through AKL, and they currently have 3 classes.

Well AA even have three classes, and that does remdeem their dingy cabins and lousy service on the whole. I've done SYD-SCL on LA which is A340 with old cabin. Only there 763's have the new lie flat seat in J. So QF is without question better as all long haul 744 J now has Skybed. LA's A340 J is the same as the old generation QF J.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.