gregarious119
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US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:25 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071115/...;_ylt=Aox5DpGny0o8HW2Ue2RDP_4E1vAI

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071115/...;_ylt=ArG7FHRlCzBkD8BZek2mWSMGw_IE

Looks like the 5 days around Thanksgiving and around Christmas they'll use this to ease congestion.

Seems like a good idea!  airplane 

[Edited 2007-11-15 11:27:16]
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:17 pm

Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if it's this easy to open the airspace for the holidays, why not do it more?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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Tugger
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:20 pm

Will this help? Is it really airspace that is the problem anyway? Isn't it the airports that are just overwhelmed by the sudden increase (doubling?) of passenger traffic?

Tug
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FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if it's this easy to open the airspace for the holidays, why not do it more?

This may be an uneducated guess, but during the rest of the year, that airspace is often being used what it's reserved for- military training. However, in the days surrounding Thanksgiving and Christmas, it's likey the military is doing less flying as Thanksgiving and Christmas are official holidays for the government (doesn't mean Zero flying, but certainly less) and I'm sure many in the military already have plans to take leave an do whatever.
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OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:00 am



Quoting Tugger (Reply 2):
Will this help? Is it really airspace that is the problem anyway? Isn't it the airports that are just overwhelmed by the sudden increase (doubling?) of passenger traffic?

The ability to use the newly freed-up airspace will help, but that won't do anything to resolve capacity issues at either the departure or arrival airport. It's tantamount to building a new 6-lane bridge over the river, but keeping the lanes the lead to and from the bridge a 2-lanes

Depending upon exactly where these new "lanes" are within ZDC, you could also still have sector volume issues..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirCop
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:02 am



Quoting Gregarious119 (Thread starter):
Looks like the 5 days around Thanksgiving and around Christmas they'll use this to ease congestion.

Seems like a good idea! airplane

Since its only between the Northeast and Florida, I doubt if will do much, just a PR stunt, as others as stated you still have capacity issues at the airports.
 
GMUAirbusA320
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:36 am

I'm sure proud our government is working on something like this. It seems that air travel is more important to Pres. Bush than finding a solution to our weakening dollar or foreign policy....or even an alternative and more updated ATC system. I'm glad the President is standing up against long delays during Thanksgiving...I'll be able to sleep better tonight.  Wink
 
Spoke2Spoke
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:19 am

We're not going to get LGA, JFK, EWR, BOS, and PHL additional runways and taxiways between now and Thanksgiving. But opening airspace may have a positive effect and ease some holiday congestion. Kudos to the government for attempting the solution. This is the kind of thinking we need to promote.

C'mon skeptics, let's wait and see if this has a positive impact. What's the hurt?
...carelessness and overconfidence are usually far more dangerous than deliberately accepted risks. - Wilbur Wright
 
BooDog
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:12 am

I agree with Spoke. Let's wait until AFTER it makes no effect on delays before we bash it.  spin 
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PhilSquares
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:32 am

This is nothing more than "eye wash"! In reality, the military doesn't use that airspace during that time period and it would be handed back to the respective Centers for them to route traffic through the airspace as they saw fit.
Fly fast, live slow
 
BigOrange
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:28 pm

How many days before an NJ ANG F16 shoots an airliner down in military airspace. I mean they shot up a school last year and then dropped a flare into the Pinelands that started the wildfire in summer, so anything is possible!
 
eghansen
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:59 pm

How many airlines can use this airspace anyway?

As I understand, aircraft not equipped with liferafts and vests can fly the overwater route from MIA-NYC.

I remember reading on this forum that Southwest was considering equipping some of its aircraft with rafts/vests to allow it to fly shorter routes and save fuel. Southwest is big in the Florida-Northeast market.

How may of the USA and JBU aircraft have overwater capability? If they do not have this, the new routes are not much use anyway.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:13 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 11):
How many airlines can use this airspace anyway?

As I understand, aircraft not equipped with liferafts and vests can fly the overwater route from MIA-NYC.

Maybe more than you think. Seat cushions along will get you as far as 50nm from the nearest shoreline; lifeVESTs will get you 50nm-162nm offshore, and life RAFTs will get you beyond 162nm.

Some of the ARs between MIA-NYC can easily (and legally) be flown with just life VESTs. NYC-Carribean destinations are another story...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:26 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if it's this easy to open the airspace for the holidays, why not do it more?

Its a good question. You can't do certain operations with civilian aircraft anywhere close buy. (e.g., zoom climb in an F-16 or any other fighter, a standard drill to set up an 'emergency CAP'). In effect, some of the bases will be grounded. Oh wait, the F-15's are anyway.  Wink

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
This is nothing more than "eye wash"! In reality, the military doesn't use that airspace during that time period and it would be handed back to the respective Centers for them to route traffic through the airspace as they saw fit.

Actually, the military uses that time to do a lot of optional training. To keep a volunteer core of pilots around during the holidays, they lift quite a few of the normal restrictions (e.g., limits on afterburner use).  Smile Some bases see their heaviest flying during the holidays. Some... almost none. (exactly what restrictions can you lift on a B-52?).  Wink Every fighter pilot I know is excited about the 'holiday training.'

But a good thing. As others noted, until the airports are expanded, its just window dressing. The real restrictions are the airports. e.g., put a 3rd parallel runway out in the bay near JFK would do more on its own than this release of airspace.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:33 pm



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 13):
Its a good question. You can't do certain operations with civilian aircraft anywhere close buy. (e.g., zoom climb in an F-16 or any other fighter, a standard drill to set up an 'emergency CAP'). In effect, some of the bases will be grounded.

Lightsaber, you seem to know something about this stuff, so perhaps you can poke some holes in this idea...

It sounds like training is planned relatively far in advance. After all, they know already that there won't be any training in the "express lane" over Thanksgiving, so they know more than a week in advance. Why have this airspace be open by default and only close it when it's needed? Default is maybe the wrong word, as it could be that it's only open 20 or 30 or 40 percent of the time, but if there's so much planning, why not open it more?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SJBOEING
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:49 pm



Quoting GMUAirbusA320 (Reply 6):
I'm sure proud our government is working on something like this. It seems that air travel is more important to Pres. Bush than finding a solution to our weakening dollar or foreign policy....or even an alternative and more updated ATC system. I'm glad the President is standing up against long delays during Thanksgiving...I'll be able to sleep better tonight.

People like you really irritate me. What do you want done? I'm not going to turn this into a forum about foreign exchange and foreign policy debate, but it seems like you're the type that is never happy with anything. This move, while not a solution, will help somewhat over this incredibly busy holiday period. It's not being marketed as a solution or some breakthrough idea. How much time do you think was spent on this? Don't confuse what you may deem to be problems with your own personal disagreements with the President and his policies.
 
micstatic
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:58 pm



Quoting SJBOEING (Reply 15):
People like you really irritate me. What do you want done? I'm not going to turn this into a forum about foreign exchange and foreign policy debate, but it seems like you're the type that is never happy with anything. This move, while not a solution, will help somewhat over this incredibly busy holiday period. It's not being marketed as a solution or some breakthrough idea. How much time do you think was spent on this? Don't confuse what you may deem to be problems with your own personal disagreements with the President and his policies.

I think Bush's approval ratings speak well enough to answer the underlying question. But, you bring up a good point. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Worst case scenario is that it helps a little.
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threepoint
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:09 pm

Reading the articles provided, I see some more proposed changes that will likely have more beneficial effects than opening more direct routing over peak holiday travel dates.
The monetary proposals (increasing the overbooking compensation and higher landing fees) may help, but the idea of fining the 'chronically late' scheduled flights may prove to be the incentive the airlines need to buck the consumer demand and offer slightly less frequencies with larger aircarft into key airports.
This is not a new sugggestion, and in fact has been discussed here before, but perhaps the airplnes and their premium customers can recognise that choice between 12 on-time daily flights bewteen X & Y vs 18 delayed daily flights is an easy pill to swallow.
Let's wait and see, for the sake of you Americans who see far more of the inside of an airliner than you would like.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
SJBOEING
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:13 pm



Quoting Micstatic (Reply 16):
I think Bush's approval ratings speak well enough to answer the underlying question. But, you bring up a good point. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Worst case scenario is that it helps a little.

That's all I'm getting at. Before we complain, let's see how this plays out.

Yes, the 'approval' ratings speak for themselves. In no way am I defending GWB. I get annoyed at the immediate complaining.
 
eghansen
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:16 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 12):
Maybe more than you think. Seat cushions along will get you as far as 50nm from the nearest shoreline; lifeVESTs will get you 50nm-162nm offshore, and life RAFTs will get you beyond 162nm.

Some of the ARs between MIA-NYC can easily (and legally) be flown with just life VESTs. NYC-Carribean destinations are another story...

I just wondered because I used to work for Continental and we had to have dedicated overwater aircraft on the route from IAH-CUN. If one of these aircraft had a maintenance, the flight could be delayed for hours.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
SJBOEING
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:18 pm

GMUAirbusA320, I meant no disrespect. I may have come off hot-headed. That was not personal attack on you, but more of a generalization.
 
SPREE34
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:31 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
Perhaps this is a dumb question, but if it's this easy to open the airspace for the holidays, why not do it more?

This airspace give back is political self gloss. The airspace would be cold anyhow for the holidays.  banghead 

Quoting Tugger (Reply 2):
Is it really airspace that is the problem anyway? Isn't it the airports that are just overwhelmed by

You have the flick!  checkmark 

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
just a PR stunt

Absolutely!  checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Spoke2Spoke (Reply 7):
Kudos to the government for attempting the solution. This is the kind of thinking we need to promote.

No.  no  No Kudos for anyone. This airspace is released anytime it's not in use anyhow. It's SOP. I'm speaking from experience, I didn't sleep at Holiday Inn Express last night.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
This is nothing more than "eye wash"! In reality, the military doesn't use that airspace during that time period and it would be handed back to the respective Centers for them to route traffic through the airspace as they saw fit.

DING!  checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 10):
How many days before an NJ ANG F16 shoots an airliner down in military airspace.

Is this a serious inquiry/question? Seriously, I want to know.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
Soku39
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:51 pm

well airspace is ok, parallel runways (and more pavement in general) are needed. Just my first thought.
The Ohio Player
 
echster
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:54 pm

Bush Puts Lipstick On Blakey's Pig

Our hero the Decider Guy ambled up to the microphones yesterday and saved the day for stressed out, burned out, tired, underpaid, heading for retirement---travelers with his big Thanksgiving Eve turkey of an air traffic control announcement.

The Disaster-In-Chief showed just how little he knew about air traffic control when he declared that "flights are being delayed, sometimes with a full load of passengers sitting on the runway for hours." Not so fast there, Smirky. Those airplanes may sit at the gates or on the ramps or the taxiways for hours, but if you put them on the runways for more than a few seconds you are going to turn a flight-full of holiday revelers into a thin pink mist. Runways are for departures and arrivals there, Curious George, not for parking.



http://themainbang.typepad.com/blog/2007/11/the-decider-guy.html
 
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lightsaber
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:51 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
Why have this airspace be open by default and only close it when it's needed?

Then you have no training flexibility. What happens if the plan is a bombing training mission and plane #3 has a FOD incident? You couldn't just delay a day. Or... every military base has two periodic inspections. One planned... one not so planned. These inspections often require scrambles. Not something I ever want to happen with civil aircraft around.

Quoting Soku39 (Reply 22):
well airspace is ok, parallel runways (and more pavement in general) are needed.

My thoughts too! Build more runways!  bigthumbsup 

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:52 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
Since its only between the Northeast and Florida, I doubt if will do much, just a PR stunt, as others as stated you still have capacity issues at the airports.

This should do wonders to all the lines of planes/RJs waiting to takeoff from JFK!
.
 
AAR90
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:05 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):
why not do it more?

It happens REGULARLY. You're only reading about it now because it makes "good press." ANYTIME the US military knows it will not be using its reserved airspace, it is released for civilian use. Happens every year during the holidays, you're just hearing about it this year.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
ADXMatt
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:17 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 19):
I just wondered because I used to work for Continental and we had to have dedicated overwater aircraft on the route from IAH-CUN. If one of these aircraft had a maintenance, the flight could be delayed for hours.

You needed an a/c with rafts....

currently at CO all the 737NG have rafts and only some of the B737-300's,
 
Cubsrule
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:30 pm



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 26):

It happens REGULARLY. You're only reading about it now because it makes "good press." ANYTIME the US military knows it will not be using its reserved airspace, it is released for civilian use. Happens every year during the holidays, you're just hearing about it this year.

Gotcha... that makes more sense.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
PhilSquares
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:42 am



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 13):
Actually, the military uses that time to do a lot of optional training. To keep a volunteer core of pilots around during the holidays, they lift quite a few of the normal restrictions (e.g., limits on afterburner use). Some bases see their heaviest flying during the holidays. Some... almost none. (exactly what restrictions can you lift on a B-52?). Every fighter pilot I know is excited about the 'holiday training.'

But a good thing. As others noted, until the airports are expanded, its just window dressing. The real restrictions are the airports. e.g., put a 3rd parallel runway out in the bay near JFK would do more on its own than this release of airspace.

Lightsaber, after spending 10 years active and another 11 years in the guard, I dion't know who's giving your you facts but they're wrong.

There is a tremendous amount of infrasturcture required to generate those sorties. Do to that over the holiday weekneds becomes very expnsive. so it doesn't happen. Your quote on lifiting "normal restrictions" is just nothing. The MAJCOMS don't do things like that. FYI there is no restriction on AB and Supersonic flight is regulated by HQ USAF, and that won't get relaxed.

Active duty pilots, just like guard pilots will takt that time off and enjoy it..Like I said, it's all eye wash!
Fly fast, live slow
 
KevinSmith
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:53 am

It's no so much that they are opening it up for use so much as they aren't going to be there to use it.
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
mirrodie
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:35 am

I'm not an ATC guru by any means, but I have to ask what does "east coast express' lane in the sky really do for us?

In my way of thought, it seems the the bottle neck is on theground at the airports with departures and arrivals. Will freeing up more space really hasten movements on the ground?

After thinking about it a bit more and realizing that, for instance, at JFK, the major delays are the evenig rush out, I guess I can see having extra routings as a good thing.

I guess we'll know how useful it was on the friday and saturday after.

_________________

Quoting Luv2cattlecall (Reply 25):
This should do wonders to all the lines of planes/RJs waiting to takeoff from JFK!

Are you being sarcastic or not? Please explain why you think it will or won't work.
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
AAR90
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:39 am



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
but I have to ask what does "east coast express' lane in the sky really do for us?

Not much for as you note:

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
In my way of thought, it seems the the bottle neck is on theground at the airports with departures and arrivals. Will freeing up more space really hasten movements on the ground?

Correct on the first count, only slightly on the second. Additional or more direct ENROUTE options will do little at congested airports due to limitation of airspace NEAR the airports (Approach/Departure Control). The long-awaited "redesign" in the NorthEast is PRIMARILY being done to improve the efficiency of APPROACH and DEPARTURE airspace... not enroute (i.e. high altitude) airspace.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
COSPN
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:16 am

ADXMatt,

Don't all CO NG 737's have Rafts and HF Radios for International and Overwater flying ???? so for example can fly IAH-MIA overwater ???
 
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OA260
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:43 am

According to CBS this holiday season is going to be the worst in history !!! Hope it doesnt turn out like last year with people stuck on runways for hours etc.....

24 Million are expected to travel and 90% of all flights will be full to capacity.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:30 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 34):
According to CBS this holiday season is going to be the worst in history !!!

Couldn't that be viewed (within a "Sweeps" month, as November is) as just a little bit of self-serving hyperbole? "Worst" in exactly what way? That there may be delays? (There will be). That there will be delays when there is seemingly "good" weather? (There doesn't have to be a thunderstorm overhead the airport dropping the viz to zero for "weather" to adversely affect an airport's AAR and slow things down.).

Quoting OA260 (Reply 34):
Hope it doesnt turn out like last year with people stuck on runways for hours etc.....

There will be delays, and depending upon where and when the weather gums up the works, you could easily see some ground stops and ground delay programs that may keep people "stuck" 1-3 hours. Will that be as bad as the 10+ hrs. that AA had @ AUS las Dec., or That B6 had at JFK last Feb.? You won't see 10+, but if they get the "routine" 1-3 it doens't mean that either airline is having a meltdown.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KevinSmith
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:35 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 35):

Couldn't that be viewed (within a "Sweeps" month, as November is) as just a little bit of self-serving hyperbole? "Worst" in exactly what way?

Kind of what I was thinking.
"The worst holiday music played over Thanskgiving"
Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:37 am

This just in!

The Holiday "Express Lanes" have been published, and are now in use! The Holiday travel season is SAVED! Thanks Georgie!  Wink

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=4233
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AAR90
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:29 am



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 35):
but if they get the "routine" 1-3 it doens't mean that either airline is having a meltdown.

True, but you know the press is going to be jumping all over virtually ANY delay. And it will ALWAYS be the airline's fault.
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
 
Mir
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:36 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 11):
How may of the USA and JBU aircraft have overwater capability? If they do not have this, the new routes are not much use anyway.

I don't know about USAir, but JetBlue's planes (at least the Airbi, not sure about the Embraers) are all equipped for extended overwater.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:58 am



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 39):

True, but you know the press is going to be jumping all over virtually ANY delay. And it will ALWAYS be the airline's fault.

That's probably the thing that's irritated me the most in the last year--that the backlash from the AUS/JFK events has back-driven a erroneous conclusion that "routine" delays are just as bad as the 10+ hour ones, and that the "routine" ones are also the result of malace aforethought by the eee-vil airline people...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:37 pm



Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 31):
I'm not an ATC guru by any means, but I have to ask what does "east coast express' lane in the sky really do for us?

In my way of thought, it seems the the bottle neck is on theground at the airports with departures and arrivals. Will freeing up more space really hasten movements on the ground?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/OPNLguy/RoutesExhibit-A.jpg

Let's take a look at Warning Area W-177A, one of the "freed-up" pieces of military airspace. W-177A being there isn't usually a problem, since you have J-routes going up/down the west side of it overland, and various ARs (Atlantic Routes) going up/down the east side of it overwater. So now, for a few days, you get to go through the middle if the cold (inactive (W-177A). BFD. You're still going to hit the same chokepoints as all three route streams converge further north. The freed-up enroute airspace does zippo to alleviate reduced AAR issues at the destination airports. (Philly will still be Philly, etc...)
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
mirrodie
Posts: 6789
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:23 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 42):
now, for a few days, you get to go through the middle if the cold (inactive (W-177A). BFD.

Thanks for the visual.

You know, in local NY area news, when they made the announcement, new crews went around the airport asking passengers for feedback.

One of the 'passengers" interviewed on the 11 PM news was none other than a controller up at JFK tower, whose name was withheld, of course.
Even he said it was a joke and wouldn't do anything for the delays.

But I'm willing to sit back and watch what happens...


In retrospect, its a bit comical and sad.....between the iphone commercials and opening military airways, the smoke and mirrors have the public thinking its all fixed  Wink
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
sphealey
Posts: 286
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RE: US Military Opening Airspace For Holidays

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:28 pm

Some additional politically-oriented discussion of this plan can be found at Ezra Klein's site and also Matthew Yglesias of The Atlantic. James Fallows, author and pilot, also has some observations at The Atlantic Online.

sPh