mbj2000
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Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:28 pm

According to Bloomberg John Leahy has confirmed, Airbus will start developing the A380 stretch in 2010.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...1085&sid=aFDn7WN3Sybc&refer=europe
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:30 pm

This has made my day if true.

What sort of timeline are we talking about until formal launch and offering to airlines?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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Stitch
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:31 pm

It will be interesting to see how many of EK's current A380-800 orders have conversion clauses to the A380-900...

Also JL might be giving some forecasting on the rumored NH A380 order...

[Edited 2007-11-15 14:32:44]
 
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moo
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:35 pm

Well well well!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
It will be interesting to see how many of EK's current A380-800 orders have conversion clauses to the A380-900...

I don't think they would convert any of them - EK did say they would like to double their order sometime in the future, and I think this will result in that. 58 -800s and 60 or so -900s.
 
LAXDESI
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:40 pm

How long will it take to develop/certify the A389 and bring it to production? Will A350XWB engines be used on it?
 
mbj2000
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:41 pm

I wonder when will we read the headline: "Greenpeace criticizes BA for flying empty A380-900s across the pond" Big grin
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
ENU
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:41 pm

At least the A389 will look better than the thickset A388.

Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
58 -800s and 60 or so -900s.

That would be a solution for the problem of overpopulation  Wink
 
KL808
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:45 pm

WOW.

Im speachless. I thought this would not be in the plan for queit some time.

The boys and girls (Engineers) in Toulouse sure have a lot of work.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:51 pm



Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):
The boys and girls (Engineers) in Toulouse sure have a lot of work.

Wouldn't have thought too much; the wing was designed to be optimised on a 900 series. Very minor changes to wheel bogies etc as well, just three fuselage plugs and "Robert's your mother's brother".

Of course there's more to it than that, but Airbus had always designed the A380 to be a larger model optimally.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
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teme82
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:51 pm



Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):
The boys and girls (Engineers) in Toulouse sure have a lot of work.

Well the wings were already made for the -900 so there isn't so much work to be done  Wink
Flying high and low
 
Viscount724
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:51 pm



Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):
Im speechless. I thought this would not be in the plan for quite some time.

Note Airbus says they won't even start development until 2010, so it's not exactly imminent.
 
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moo
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:52 pm



Quoting KL808 (Reply 7):

The boys and girls (Engineers) in Toulouse sure have a lot of work.

Actually I am inclined to believe they have less work than people think - the A380 was originally designed with a stretch implicitly in mind, the wings were over designed, the A380F undercarriage is suitably beefed up for the weight, the RR Trent 980 is already certified to 85,000LB thrust.

All they have to do really is build it!

(Yes, I probably am over simplifying and missing out loads of behind the scenes stuff, but the reality is they have a huge headstart over themselves)
 
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ER757
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:52 pm



Quoting ENU (Reply 6):
At least the A389 will look better than the thickset A388

Agreed - should even out the proportions a little.

If they start developing in 2010, should we expect to see it in service about 5 years thereafter? Maybe sooner?
Will cargo capacity be higher or will the extra bagage due to more pax take up most of the additional room in the belly?
I think the stretch will sell well if the A388's are flying full for most carriers.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:57 pm

While I don't think this helps break even, making the investment even less valuable than before (it'll add billions and cut into A380-800 sales), as an enthusiast, I am glad they are pushing forward.

Any mention of the A388LR?

Quoting ENU (Reply 6):
At least the A389 will look better than the thickset A388.

It will look "right" as the A388 looks stubby.  yuck  I think some of the "ugly" criticism of the A380 will fade when they see the -900.  eyepopping 
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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OA260
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:58 pm

Great news indeed. But we will have to wait until at least 2015 to get on one.
 
chiad
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:59 pm

WOW. Awesome news..  Wow!
I guess the A380-900 is the biggest a commercial airliner can become if the magic 80m mark was to awoided!?!
I cant wait to get the specs for this aircraft. I cant wait to ride in it!
 
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moo
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:04 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
While I don't think this helps break even, making the investment even less valuable than before (it'll add billions and cut into A380-800 sales), as an enthusiast, I am glad they are pushing forward.

Having just done some 'back of the fag packet' calculations on per airframe costs, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a zero sum investment from Emirates - 'give us the A380-900 and we will buy enough frames to cancel the extra investment'.

If that was the case, Airbus would be insane not to accept the offer.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
I don't think they would convert any of them - EK did say they would like to double their order sometime in the future, and I think this will result in that. 58 -800s and 60 or so -900s.

Well Clark did say that two-thirds of his current A380-800 orderbook would be A380-900s if it had been available...

One wonders if he ordered so many A380s with the expectation the A380-900 would come and he'd get the first 25-50 for EK which would allow him to more effectively fight competitors flying the smaller A380-800...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Any mention of the A388LR?

The A380-800R would likely happen around the same time as the A380-800F, since both would draw on each other.

What will be interesting to see is whether or not the A380-900 has the center fuel-tank and other items for extra range, or if Airbus will just go for the "simple stretch" and accept less range for more payload as Boeing would like to do with the 787-10.

[Edited 2007-11-15 15:33:51]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 16):
Having just done some 'back of the fag packet' calculations on per airframe costs, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a zero sum investment from Emirates - 'give us the A380-900 and we will buy enough frames to cancel the extra investment'

That might be true. But if Emirates were not given the choice, would they not buy more A388s? In other words, if they think they need 100 VLAs, and they need 60 A388s, they aren't going to just buy 40 748Is when they think they need something like the A389. They'll "make do" with more A388s. They may, may choose 2 A350s instead, but then, so? That helps the A350 program but doesn't add cost to the A380 program.

That's why I say it robs the A388 of orders to fill an even smaller niche. It might be break even on the new investment, but overall, it takes away sales from the A388, which actually puts the investment more in a hole.

Just my opinion. I hope I'm proved wrong. But there is honestly no way to tell, since there aren't two parallel universes, one where EK buys 100 A388s and the other where they buy 60 A388s and 40 A389s...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:18 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 17):
What will be interesting to see is whether or not the A380-900 has the center fuel-tank and other items for extra range, or if Airbus will just go for the "simple shrink" and accept less range for more payload as Boeing would like to do with the 787-10.

Keep in mind Airbus's most important customer for this stretch is almost certainly EK. Clark really, really doesn't like airplanes without at least marginal C-market range capabilities. I feel sure they'll put in the extra tanks and whatever reinforcement is necessary to increase MTOW enough to keep the range at least the same as that of the A380-800.

The really interesting question to me is whether Airbus will switch to Trent XWBs (and/or the hypothetical GEnx XWB variant). As ChrisBA777ER has posted before, that could result in absolutely unprecedented per-seat efficiency. Watch out for the EK steamroller.
 
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OA260
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:19 pm

There is a good comparason here on WingedMigrator's profile pics :::

http://www.airliners.net/uf/view.fil...2901&filename=1184822231hfKsei.png
 
na
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:33 pm

Wow, is all I can say. Well, almost all.

Will we see the first 1000seater flying domestic in Japan?

Quoting ENU (Reply 6):
At least the A389 will look better than the thickset A388.

Agreed, this stretch will set the proportions right.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:36 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 21):
Will we see the first 1000seater flying domestic in Japan?

Nope. Very unlikely unless JL and NH merge and are then forced by the government to reduce frequencies and airports are reopened to quads. Oh, and the population of Japan has to start growing again, not slowly shrinking as it is now...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
474218
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:29 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
Actually I am inclined to believe they have less work than people think - the A380 was originally designed with a stretch implicitly in mind, the wings were over designed, the A380F undercarriage is suitably beefed up for the weight, the RR Trent 980 is already certified to 85,000LB thrust.

Interesting "the wings were over designed". I seem to remember that they failed to meet their ultimate load test, but then I could be wrong.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:42 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 23):
Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
Actually I am inclined to believe they have less work than people think - the A380 was originally designed with a stretch implicitly in mind, the wings were over designed, the A380F undercarriage is suitably beefed up for the weight, the RR Trent 980 is already certified to 85,000LB thrust.

Interesting "the wings were over designed". I seem to remember that they failed to meet their ultimate load test, but then I could be wrong.

I believe they failed at 147% of design limit but were beefed up, re-tested and surpassed the 150% well in a following test.

Funnily enough the passing second time didnt get as much publicity on here as when it failed the first one - a lot of people were willing it to fail I think.

I really genuinely believe the 900 will sell better than the 800 eventually and I also think that over the design lifespan from launch to when the last one is scrapped, it is more than possible that they could sell 500+. Fact is we are judging a plane for tomorrow on today's markets - it may seem a little overkill to some now, but my gut feeling is that people will see the A380 makes a pretty compelling case in 10 or 15 years time.

I also think it will evolve with the markets, and the bog-standard 800A model we have today may well only have a service life of twelve years or so before Airbus completely re-works the design, incorporating all the amzing technologial advances we have been seeing of late and also some we havent seen yet.

The final incarnation of the A380 will be a bigger, quieter, greener, more efficient and more expensive beast than we are seeing here.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
lrdc9
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:07 am



Quoting ENU (Reply 6):
At least the A389 will look better than the thickset A388.

I like the thickset look. It makes it look stubby.
Just say NO to scabs.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
I believe they failed at 147% of design limit but were beefed up, re-tested and surpassed the 150% well in a following test.


Airbus' computer models showed that with the additional reinforcement, the wing was now good for 150%. They did not do a second physical test.


Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
I also think it will evolve with the markets, and the bog-standard 800A model we have today may well only have a service life of twelve years or so before Airbus completely re-works the design, incorporating all the amazing technological advances we have been seeing of late and also some we haven't seen yet.

I believe Airbus is already planning some of the advances in the A380-800F (GLARE2, composite main floor, etc.) for the "Block 2" A380-800s starting around MSN050...

[Edited 2007-11-15 18:10:44]
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:40 am



Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
Well well well!

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):It will be interesting to see how many of EK's current A380-800 orders have conversion clauses to the A380-900...

I don't think they would convert any of them - EK did say they would like to double their order sometime in the future, and I think this will result in that. 58 -800s and 60 or so -900s.

Watch for a switch in orders. EK has stated all along that the -900 is the plane they wanted from the start.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
I believe they failed at 147% of design limit but were beefed up, re-tested and surpassed the 150% well in a following test.

I don't believe they did the "actual" wing load test again. Airbus crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion the "fix" was sufficient.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:20 am



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 27):

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
I believe they failed at 147% of design limit but were beefed up, re-tested and surpassed the 150% well in a following test.

I don't believe they did the "actual" wing load test again. Airbus crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion the "fix" was sufficient.

It's roughly equilvalent to qualification by similarity. Airbus knew that the wing design was good to 1.47 so they just had to convince the regulators that the improvements were sufficient to provide the extra 0.03. You're allowed to do that by analysis if you have the data to back it.

Tom.
 
TruemanQLD
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:23 am

YES!
on the serious side, who will order it?
-EK Definetly 60+
-QF Maybe 10
-JL Maybe 6
-BA maybe 5

Not many airlines in my view... but time will tell
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:40 am



Quoting MBJ2000 (Thread starter):
Airbus will start developing the A380 stretch in 2010.

Bring her on!!!

Big version: Width: 1000 Height: 750 File size: 119kb


By the way, this diagram is for a notional 6.4 m stretch, the longest possible without breaking out of the 80 x 80 m gate size limit. Recent statements by Udvar-Hazy had him discussing an even longer 10 m stretch. That would add another five frames, probably 3 forward and 2 aft.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
it'll add billions

Questionable... as often discussed, most of the engineering for the stretch (wing, landing gear) has already been done (and payed for) on the A380F program, which was already cutting metal when it got suspended.

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
Will A350XWB engines be used on it?

Likely. That would amount roughly to a 5% range boost, and there are undeniable advantages to a shared engine pool covering the A359 and A389.
 
474218
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:54 am



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
believe they failed at 147% of design limit



Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
Airbus' computer models showed that with the additional reinforcement, the wing was now good for 150%. They did not do a second physical test.



Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 27):
I don't believe they did the "actual" wing load test again. Airbus crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion the "fix" was sufficient.

All of the above responses prove that the wing was not "over designed" in the first place.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 28):
It's roughly equilvalent to qualification by similarity. Airbus knew that the wing design was good to 1.47 so they just had to convince the regulators that the improvements were sufficient to provide the extra 0.03. You're allowed to do that by analysis if you have the data to back it.

So you are saying that Airbus designed their wing to fail at 147% of limit load, even though they knew that the requirement was 150%, so they could then use analysis to prove it was really good for 150%, if they added some beef ups? If you really believe that I think you are really ready to drink the koolaid.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:05 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 31):
So you are saying (Tdscanuck) that Airbus designed their wing to fail at 147% of limit load, even though they knew that the requirement was 150%, so they could then use analysis to prove it was really good for 150%, if they added some beef ups?

No, what he is saying that Airbus designed the wing to survive 150%. When it didn't, they analyzed why it broke at 147%, calculated the amount of reinforcement needed to reach 150%, and plugged it back into the model (which had been updated to show a 147% failure-point). The new, updated, and accurate model then showed that the failure-point would now be 150% and that was accepted.

It is all academic, anyway, in that any flight envelope that results in 147%+ wing-stress is likely shortly thereafter to lead to complete structural failure of the airframe.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:00 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 31):
All of the above responses prove that the wing was not "over designed" in the first place.

It was over-designed in the sense that it is aerodynamically sized for the A389. The A388 consequently has a lightly loaded wing of much greater area than strictly necessary to support its weight.

Structurally, Airbus "played the game" and cut weight wherever they could on the A388, making the wing barely strong enough to meet the certification requirement. As is customary when an airframe is grown, structural reinforcements are made without the need for a new test. For example, the 777 wing test showed the structure was 3% stronger than required for the 772A, but it was not nearly strong enough for a 773ER; the structural modifications for the latter was certified by similarity.

There is nothing unusual about this growth process.
 
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mariner
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:13 am

Some things puzzle me about this.

It is not an "official" announcement.

The Bloomberg article came out several hours ago, but has scarcely been picked up by other news sources. Or - very few that I can find.

The statement came from Mr. Leahy, who knows as much as anyone about the state of potential orders. I guess there are those who will say it is just Leahy hot air, but he is an extraordinarily useful guide to the thinking at Airbus.

Since it is also fairly "big" news, I am puzzled that it would just come from him, without any other back-up from Airbus. And if it proved to be just hot air, then some EADS shareholders might have something to say.

Mr Leahy is also an extremely perceptive salesman. Watching him in an interview situation is quite different (for me) than simply reading him in the press - people sometimes take that out of context and put their own spin on it.

So assuming that it isn't out of context and that Airbus do intend to stretch - I assume that Emirates has to be a key to it - but it seems odd (to me, anyway) that it would only be Emirates.

Airbus could easily tell Mr. Clarke to love his fleet of 800's - unless there is a (proven) greater market interest for the 900 or unless he is offering a fairly remarkable deal.

I also assume that Airbus is completely aware of the positives and negatives involved, and that what they mght gain on the roundabouts they might lose on the swings.

So I have to think there is more to it than meets the eye. Or less - maybe it is just Mr. Leahy teasing. Or jumping the gun?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ikramerica
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:17 am



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 24):
I believe they failed at 147% of design limit but were beefed up, re-tested and surpassed the 150% well in a following test.

Funnily enough the passing second time didnt get as much publicity on here as when it failed the first one - a lot of people were willing it to fail I think.

Funny, because of two things. A. it's not supposed to happen in the first place, and B. they didn't retest it.

So maybe it's you who have an agenda and not those who were shocked the wing failed? Possible?

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 30):
Questionable... as often discussed, most of the engineering for the stretch (wing, landing gear) has already been done (and payed for) on the A380F program, which was already cutting metal when it got suspended.

I highly doubt that the stillborn work they did on the A380F covers the cost of stretching the A380 and making it competitive in the 2015 timeframe. There will be a need for material changes, new engines, and other things like improved avionics when we are talking 9 years from the original planned delivery date of the A388.

Even with the same fuselage lengths, the 777 longer range program cost billions to complete. The A389 is going to cost $2 billion or so, at least in 2013 dollars.

And to me, it may win SOME new orders, but for every 1 order the plane gets that Airbus wouldn't have gotten, I imagine it steals 2 orders from the A388 as there is "no alternative" in the 500+ seat category anyway.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
baroque
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:40 am



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
This has made my day if true.

At last something more suitable to go with those wings.

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 30):
Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
Will A350XWB engines be used on it?

Likely. That would amount roughly to a 5% range boost, and there are undeniable advantages to a shared engine pool covering the A359 and A389.

It depends on what the 2010 means. The date may indicate about when they can get hold of a TXWB or it could suggest that it might still be powered by the T900, perhaps with some T1000 type improvements.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:10 am

According to ILFC Udvar-Hazy the cargo capacity of the A388 is minimal. The prime reason to develop the A389 is just that, more cargo capacity.

Here's the link, check out the first paragraph.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=11%2F12%2F2007
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:22 am



Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
It depend on what the 2010 means.

Leahy said 2010 program launch for 2015 EIS.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 34):
it seems odd (to me, anyway) that it would only be Emirates.

For one other data point, the chairman of Cathay recently expressed interest in the A389.
 
speedbird2263
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:40 am

Oh Happy DaY!

I must say Ive been awaiting the news of the A389 being put forward for development after all the nay-sayers on here that repeatedly state that the A388 is already a small niche aircraft as it is. A few years earlier than Id expected but what the heck, I'll tell u this though; the interest in the aircraft is definately there, I see a possible entry into service just 4 years from now i.e. 2012 Id hazard to say the A389 might even make the market before the A38F

[Edited 2007-11-15 21:43:22]
Straight'n Up 'N Fly Right Son
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:44 am

No one knows what is going to happen in 2010-2015. It's not that cut and dry.

Some potential pitfalls:


1. A stretch for such a big plane may seem simple but it will take a lot of engineering and expense. Who's gonna foot the bill? With all the money that EADS is losing now, can they afford another huge investment?

2. If carbon composite on the 787 proves to be as efficient as they say, then the aluminum skin on the A380-900 will be outdated. If Airbus redesigns it then it will be VERY expensive.

3. What will Boeing come out with while they bring about the A380-900?
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:54 am



Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 41):
1. A stretch for such a big plane may seem simple but it will take a lot of engineering and expense.

Oh yeah. It'll be roughly as difficult as making a 787-9 from a 787-8, or an A350-1000 from an A350-900. We're talking some seeeeerious engineering effort  Wink

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 41):
If carbon composite on the 787 proves to be as efficient as they say, then the aluminum skin on the A380-900 will be outdated.

If by efficient, you refer to fuel burn, then the A389 has nothing to fear from the composite twins. Here are some relative fuel burn calculations I ran for a theoretical 6.4 m stretch, using the Breguet range equation, for a 6000 nm mission loaded at 1 pax / m2 of usable cabin floor area. The 773ER, today's state of the art, is taken as reference.

Big version: Width: 889 Height: 630 File size: 98kb


I did assume new generation engines (identical to the A350) would be employed. A longer stretch, as entertained by Udvar-Hazy, would make the fuel burn another few points lower than shown on the chart.

Where aluminum might hurt is maintenance, not performance.
 
Airnerd
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:56 am

One more significance of an A380-900: If I'm not mistaken, this will easily be the longest and heaviest aircraft ever built, finally surpassing the AN225.
 
Ceph
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:34 am

Can't wait to see what new things Airbus has in store for the A389...
 
redflyer
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:44 am



Quoting Ceph (Reply 43):
Can't wait to see what new things Airbus has in store for the A389...

You mean we might finally see the gym and bowling alley?
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
Ceph
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:50 am



Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 44):
You mean we might finally see the gym and bowling alley?

Erm... I think these things are a bit impossible... You wouldn't want bowling balls to fly around during turbulence. A gym is possible with the weights tied down but it will be a hefty weight penalty.... I was refering to any new features that Airbus might add to the aircraft.
 
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ADent
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:54 am

What are the numbers for a simple A389 with the existing engines?

Those are all 6000nm flights? I thought the 777-2LR was more efficient than the 777-2ER at trips more than 5000 miles, and the A346 is that much less efficient than the A343?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:54 am



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 41):
Oh yeah. It'll be roughly as difficult as making a 787-9 from a 787-8, or an A350-1000 from an A350-900. We're talking some seeeeerious engineering effort

But if you make a 787-9 for EIS in 2017 using the same exact technology of 2008, then sure, it's easy. But it won't sell that well.

At 2015 EIS, that's 9 years after the original planned EIS of the A388, and that's the "state of the art" in the A388.

Again, building the 77W wasn't that cheap and easy because it was 9 years after the 772, and there was plenty that needed to be improved upon. And the 77W also had the stretch work already done on it in the form of the 773.

The 787-9 is not using new engines or different landing gear or different wings, etc. The 787-10 may have to, which is why Boeing is stalling on it (it will be a real expense).

To be the plane everyone really wants, the A380-900 will need to use new engines, and that's expensive.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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zeke
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 6:57 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 47):

To be the plane everyone really wants, the A380-900 will need to use new engines, and that's expensive.

They are coming, should be out the door in 2012 for the A350XWB, the 2010 timing in my view points to a new engine technology.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
dw747400
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RE: Confirmed: Airbus To Build A380-900

Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 34):
Some things puzzle me about this.

It is not an "official" announcement.

In fact, it seems like nothing but Leahy discussing a development timeline. The article makes it sound like they are confident the A389 will be offered, but t stops short of explicitly saying so.

As for the engineering work--I'd imagine it will depend on how Airbus chooses to treat range/payload issues. Just adding some fuselage and adjusting internal fittings and systems to accomodate the additional load is not a big deal, but if MGTOW increases, new A350 technologies are added, and improvements bassed on the A380s first few years of service are put in, Airbus will have a big project on their hands (albeit one that will be much more competive than a simple stretch).

[Edited 2007-11-15 23:02:46]

[Edited 2007-11-15 23:04:36]
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