Summa767
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AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:45 pm

At the next public audience for the awarding of routes and frequencies, Colombia's civil aviation authority will discuss applications as follows:

AVIANCA:
BOG-MCO, 7 weekly
BOG-IAD, 7 Weekly
BOG-LAX, 2 weekly for a total of 6
BOG-JFK, 7 weekly for a total of 14
BOG-PTY, 3 weekly for a total of 17
BOG to LON, FRA and CDG, previously announced but that were not discussed at the last meeting.

SAM, and here is a surprise:
BAQ-MIA, 7 weekly
CTG-MIA, 7 weekly

I suppose this is a strategy to reduce capacity in the face of the oncoming competition in CTG and BAQ, by using Fokker 100s instead of the MD83s, that will start to leave the fleet sooner rather than later anyway.

AIRES:
BOG-NYC, 7 weekly
The audience will also consider applications for Aires to serve FLL from different colombian cities, that were postponed from the last audience, pending the expansion of the bilateral with the US.

AEROREPUBLICA
As with Aires, decisions postponed from the last meeting will be discussed again. These are for service to MIA from different points in Colombia

[Edited 2007-11-16 12:49:08]
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:55 pm

Interesting applications, but I wonder who will get what? SAM should get MIA-CTG/BAQ by default, since those are Open Skies. So AIRES, Avianca, and AEROREPUBLICA are going to be competing for the 21 open frequencies. I wouldn't be surprised if each get seven frequencies. There isn't a market for two carriers on Orlando-Colombia, so if jetBlue and Avianca both get MCO-BOG, I wonder if both will go for it.

[Edited 2007-11-16 12:56:59]
a.
 
MATURRO727
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:07 pm

WOW, AIRES serving NYC??? how's that going to work, are they planing to acquire bigger airplanes ?? can anyone please explain me this route cause sincerely don't understand it, it will make more sense to do it from the coast rather than BOG

In the other hand AV in MCO, is this route all year round or is going to be only seasonal? they are currently flying to MIA and FLL plus the frequencies from AA, is the south Florida market so big to handle flights from 3 different cities that are relatively close? and lets not forget that SAM/AV are planning to add the daily CTG/BAQ-MIA.


Regards.

MATURRO727
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:08 pm



Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 2):

In the other hand AV in MCO, is this route all year round or is going to be only seasonal? they are currently flying to MIA and FLL plus the frequencies from AA, is the south Florida market so big to handle flights from 3 different cities that are relatively close

MCO is not in South Florida. They are two entirely different cities. Orlando definitley has a big enough Colombian community to support a daily to Bogotá.
a.
 
Summa767
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Interesting applications, but I wonder who will get what? SAM should get MIA-CTG/BAQ by default, since those are Open Skies. So AIRES, Avianca, and AEROREPUBLICA are going to be competing for the 21 open frequencies

Sure, MM should not have any trouble getting the MIA frequencies from CTG and BAQ. Any delay will most likely come from getting its operation approved in the US, as they are technically a different company from AV, and have not flown to the US in recent history.

As you say there are 21 new frequencies, but the equation gets more complicated than that, as AeroRepublica have been already promised some, there are also some outstanding ones for Aires. On the other side of the equation we have 17 frequencies that no longer count, namely AV's current services from BAQ and CTG to MIA and JFK, so a net total of 38 up for grabs.

As for MCO, I guess AV would want to start in the Spring, as does jetBlue if I remember rightly. Will be one to watch.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:21 am

I wasn´t expecting those applications to come so soon. With 38 available frequencies, AV will get all they want, P5 and AIRES will do too.
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:40 am



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AVIANCA:
BOG-MCO, 7 weekly
BOG-IAD, 7 Weekly
BOG-LAX, 2 weekly for a total of 6
BOG-JFK, 7 weekly for a total of 14
BOG-PTY, 3 weekly for a total of 17
BOG to LON, FRA and CDG, previously announced but that were not discussed at the last meeting.

I am missing SJU and SDQ, so we will see them in the next round?

anyway good news!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:02 am

Too bad AV seems uninterested in IAH.

It would be nice to see South American metal in H-Town once again (Viasa was IAH''s only South American carrier).But I suppose that CO has put a kibosh on any potential services from South American carriers for the foreseeable future.

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
EddieDude
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:52 pm

7 weekly flights to IAD seem a bit ambitious to me. What do you make of it Juan?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
danimarroquin
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:02 pm

well is about time that they listen to me , MCO is a huge market for colombia . you have no idea how fustrating is to drive down all away to FLL or MIA to get your relatives . also , the colombian community is very big in orlando , and I think that AV is asking to much flights to IAD .
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:04 pm



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
7 weekly flights to IAD seem a bit ambitious to me

dont forget, via BOG they can offer beside the colombian market, connecting flights to SJO, PTY, UIO, GYE, VLN, CCS, LIM, SLC, GRU, EZE soon ASU.. and maybe its the first sight in order to entering star!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Summa767
Topic Author
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:01 pm



Quoting EddieDude (Reply 8):
7 weekly flights to IAD seem a bit ambitious to me

Hey Ed! Yes, I would imagine that AV would probably start 3 or 4 times a week, and see how it goes.

As Avianca said, there is also potential for connections, but that depends on what time the flight is programmed (I would guess red eye northbound) It will probably only be good for connections from and to LIM, UIO, GYE and CCS, apart from domestic destinations, as other southamerican stations are one single flights, and if it's convenient one way, it os not so for the other.
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:05 pm



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 11):
as other southamerican stations are one single flights, and if it's convenient one way, it os not so for the other.

yes, true, but remember there are always willing low-yield pessengers to connect even on such flights...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:17 pm



Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 9):
well is about time that they listen to me , MCO is a huge market for colombia . you have no idea how fustrating is to drive down all away to FLL or MIA to get your relatives . also , the colombian community is very big in orlando , and I think that AV is asking to much flights to IAD .

If they are asking too much for Washington, then they are asking too much for Orlando. Washington/NoVa has a bigger Colombian community, IIRC. It is the third largest in the country I believe, after NYC/NJ and Miami/Lauderdale.
a.
 
miamix707
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
MCO is not in South Florida. They are two entirely different cities. Orlando definitley has a big enough Colombian community to support a daily to Bogotá.

MCO could potentially support service to other cities as well, even if only a few times a week. Even 2 Colombian carriers at MCO couldt eventually happen.

the MCO-Colombia service was long overdue... finally.


As far as Aerorepublica/Aires/Sam, when can we expect them in the US? sometime in 2008, 2009?

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 9):
well is about time that they listen to me , MCO is a huge market for colombia . you have no idea how fustrating is to drive down all away to FLL or MIA to get your relatives . also , the colombian community is very big in orlando , and I think that AV is asking to much flights to IAD .

 checkmark 

I also think the IAD service seems too much. Don't know if the Washington/northern Virginia Colombian population is larger than central florida's and even if it were, in proportion I'm sure the latter is larger.

If it wasn't for the current political climate/recent upgrading of Venezuela to Cat I so recently, we would be seeing a Venezuelan airline at Orlando as well. It's likely there would be a Dominican airline flying to MCO too again if it weren't for that country's long-standing FAA status that was just recently elevated to CAT I.
 
2travel2know
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:21 pm



Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 14):
MCO could potentially support service to other cities as well, even if only a few times a week. Even 2 Colombian carriers at MCO couldt eventually happen.

Specially if one airline flies to MCO and the other flies to SFB; better from different Colombian cities (BOG and MDE or BAQ?).

I would like to see soon is a once/twice-weekly ADZ-MIA, even on P5 "no business class" E190.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:28 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 15):
I would like to see soon is a once/twice-weekly ADZ-MIA, even on P5 "no business class" E190.

but would it work? specially with multiple other possible routings... ??
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:47 am



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOG-IAD, 7 Weekly
BOG-LAX, 2 weekly for a total of 6



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOG to LON

Interesting!
AV is applying to Star Alliance's bases.



.

Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AIRES:
BOG-NYC, 7 weekly

I am not clear about the proper aircraft to operate this proposal.



.

Quoting MATURRO727 (Reply 2):
In the other hand AV in MCO, is this route all year round or is going to be only seasonal? they are currently flying to MIA and FLL plus the frequencies from AA

Both AV and AA fly MIA-BOG.
Nowadays, BOG-FLL-BOG is covered solely by AV taking into account code-share cooperation with DL.



,

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 14):
I also think the IAD service seems too much. Don't know if the Washington/northern Virginia Colombian population is larger than central florida's

Probably, AV is also considering the possibility to serve IAD as a Star Alliance base in the future.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:44 am

Traffic between Orlando and South America, while recently showing signs of improvement, has collapsed in the past decade, hence one reason for Latin carrier's lack of interest in the market. In 2000, nearly 2000,000 Brazilians traveled to Orlando. Less than five years later, that number was only 74,000. While numbers from all countries are showing growth lately - notably Colombia - it's still slow and half of what it was during the 1990s.

Nonetheless there is definitely a market for MCO-BOG, though, and somebody will fill it.

[Edited 2007-11-17 17:45:02]
a.
 
miamix707
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:10 am



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Traffic between Orlando and South America, while recently showing signs of improvement, has collapsed in the past decade, hence one reason for Latin carrier's lack of interest in the market. In 2000, nearly 2000,000 Brazilians traveled to Orlando. Less than five years later, that number was only 74,000. While numbers from all countries are showing growth lately - notably Colombia - it's still slow and half of what it was during the 1990s.

I'm not trying to contradict your theory just for the sake of doing so but.. without the need to look any numbers up it's very obvious Venezuelan, Colombians, etc and pretty much people from every spanish-speaking country are coming to Orlando in higher numbers than ever before. While in the 90s they were going to S. Florida, from the late 90's on, more and more (especially Venezuelans and Colombians) have been settling in Orlando.

I know a good number of them who go every year to visit family and to spend new years over there etc, so obviously they have have to fly.

It's true that Brazilian tourism to both Miami and Orlando took a dive after 9/11, but the Brazilian resident numbers have also risen since then. I've been noticing a good number of Ecuadorians in Orlando lately. Not to mention the already large number of Peruvians, Argentinians, etc.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 19):

I'm not trying to contradict your theory just for the sake of doing so but.. without the need to look any numbers up it's very obvious Venezuelan, Colombians, etc and pretty much people from every spanish-speaking country are coming to Orlando in higher numbers than ever before. While in the 90s they were going to S. Florida, from the late 90's on, more and more (especially Venezuelans and Colombians) have been settling in Orlando.

Well, if you look at actual traffic numbers and facts, rather than just what you are observing, you would see that isn't the case. Facts like census data that entirely contradict what you are saying. South Americans moving to the United States, by far, largely settle in Miami/Fort Lauderdale and New York City, not Orlando. Houston has been receiving a huge influx of Venezuelans, while Washington/Northern Virgina has been seeing a large influx of Colombians and Bolivians, while Boston, as it always has, is a favorite for Brazilians. Orlando, as always, remains a favorite with Puerto Ricans, as well as Colombians and Dominicans. While the numbers for other nationalities might surely have been improving, they are nothing significant. Colombians, Dominicans, and Puerto Ricans are the three Latin communities of significance in Orlando, and at least jetBlue has finally recognized the need to serve these markets from Orlando, outside of SJU.

As this Orlando Sentinel article shows...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busin...orl-cover1207nov12,0,3461899.story

...there is definitely going to be growth in the Orlando-South America tourist market in the future, however. Brazilians are starting, slowly but surely, to visit the U.S. in greater numbers. Though Venezuelan tourism to the U.S. has collapsed, and they were traditionally the second biggest source of tourists from Latin America.

[Edited 2007-11-18 02:08:01]
a.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:36 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Houston has been receiving a huge influx of Venezuelans,

That's very true. In 2004 I had only one friend in Houston, nowdays I have four different houses to stay in when I visit Houston.

I wonder if AV will start marketing this flights from other stations outside Colombia, like UIO, LIM, GYE, PTY, VLN, CCS. I think they might get many pax from Venezuela especially nowdays that a r/t CCS-MIA in high season is impossible to get nonstop and you can only get it via ATL or IAH for as low as $1500!!!! madness!!!

Saludos desde Monterrey,
Luis
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:44 pm



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 21):
I wonder if AV will start marketing this flights from other stations outside Colombia, like UIO, LIM, GYE, PTY, VLN, CCS. I think they might get many pax from Venezuela especially nowdays that a r/t CCS-MIA in high season is impossible to get nonstop and you can only get it via ATL or IAH for as low as $1500!!!! madness!!!

no doubt they would marketing this flights with all there outside colombia stations.
sadly these days its also not easy to get tickets with avianca to any destionation out of CCS... the flights are more than fully booked... sold out till the end of the year even on business!!!
addtionally they will install in the high season a 6th flight on the CCS-BOG route... leaving CCS at 05:30pm but I am sure they will continue with the flight even after the high season... some was done when the 5th flight in the summer high season was installed... pritty amazing how AV is doing on the CCS route.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Fabi727
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:27 pm

It is true Avianca must be doing very well on the CCS and VLN routes as in October I flew VLN -BOG and some passengers were left stranded on the way to their connecting flights to Miami, and South America as Avianca overbooked the flight. I had to return to CCS in business class as all the flights to VLN were full for the following ten days. In VLN The Avianca agent said that this flight sells itself and they do not need to advertise it. They started it twice a week and now daily and they are thinking about opening a route to Maracaibo,so I think Avianca should keep an eye on the potential of VLN and send a bigger plane or increase to two flights daily as lots of people like this flight despite the change of plane in Bogota. Although there is a direct flight to Miami Aeropostal have a bad reputation on their direct flight as they keep on cancelling for technical reasons and losing luggage .
I read in Venezuela Gazeta Aerea that Aeropostal is getting a 757 for the Miami to VLN and CCS routes. This must be yet another dream of Mr Ramiz!

Has Avianca rights for direct services to Miami from Venezuela as they used to have for Europe?
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:36 pm



Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
They started it twice a week and now daily and they are thinking about opening a route to Maracaibo,

well a flight to Maracaibo is overdue... I am sure AV would make a hell of money also on this route!

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
I think Avianca should keep an eye on the potential of VLN and send a bigger plane or increase to two flights daily as lots of people like this flight despite the change of plane in Bogota

a 767 would be a dream ! well VLN has a lot of cargo potencial... and they would fill the flight without any problem with passengers and cargo.. but I think it is more realistic to see soon a second daily flight into VLN (as I understand it is already in planing)

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
Although there is a direct flight to Miami Aeropostal have a bad reputation on their direct flight as they keep on cancelling for technical reasons and losing luggage .

yes Aeropostal is the worst airline I ever used...

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
I read in Venezuela Gazeta Aerea that Aeropostal is getting a 757 for the Miami to VLN and CCS routes. This must be yet another dream of Mr Ramiz!

well the 757 is already used on the route since several weeks... as I understand already returned... has anybody more news on this?

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
Has Avianca rights for direct services to Miami from Venezuela as they used to have for Europe?

not sure about flights to MIAMI, I am only sure they have rights to fligh within the Andean comunity, and AV had last year plans to star CCS-LIM-CCS flights...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
miamix707
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:11 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
...there is definitely going to be growth in the Orlando-South America tourist market in the future, however. Brazilians are starting, slowly but surely, to visit the U.S. in greater numbers. Though Venezuelan tourism to the U.S. has collapsed, and they were traditionally the second biggest source of tourists from Latin America.

Depending how one looks at those facts. While of course most South Americans would want to go to Miami out of hype and the perceived need that they don't need to speak english in Miami.. proportionately speaking, the ratio of inmigrants (tourists aside) going to Orlando has grown faster than that going to South Floridai. Even many cubans are getting the heck out of Miami to W.Palm, Orlando, etc. Not all inmigrants are that naive. Just because of having south beach next door and lack of need to learn english, the cost of living in Miami and the harder to find jobs often make Orlando a better choice for a growing number of spanish-speaking inmigrants. That's why they're also going to places like Houston.

By the way the whole idea of the Avianca flight is more geared to local residents than to tourism.

But you're right the number of south american "tourists" is increasing as economies in Brazl, Argentina, Ecuador etc are more sstable. The 74000 number you read was for 2004. The article also mentions how "This (2007) was a strong summer in visitors from Brazil". "For Orlando to truly tap into the expected growth in South American travelers, however, those tourists will need more links to Orlando International Airport, tourism officials say. No airline currently flies nonstop between OIA and South America. But there are signs interest in such routes is growing"


"TAM, along with most other major South American carriers, already flies to Miami International Airport. But it is interested enough in the Orlando market that it has chartered buses to carry its passengers between Miami and Orlando during particularly busy periods"

Signs that we might see Brazilian carriers at MCO again in the near future.
 
LAXintl
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:24 pm



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
BOG-LAX, 2 weekly for a total of 6

Good to see AV increase.

I know they have been quite active pushing beyond service to EZE/LIM/GRU with ethnic travel agencies in the LA area. The added frequencies should help them become an even more attractive option.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:19 pm



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 26):
Good to see AV increase.

I know they have been quite active pushing beyond service to EZE/LIM/GRU with ethnic travel agencies in the LA area. The added frequencies should help them become an even more attractive option.

as I understand AV is doing good money with cargo on the route ex LAX (interlining with several asian carriers)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
RCS763AV
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:15 am



Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):
pritty amazing how AV is doing on the CCS route.

Well, even if VH was the worse airline ever, the absence of their two flights is pushing AV´s LF´s high up. That, and the fact that the government is not letting new airlines cover routes from Venezuela to the US.

Quoting Fabi727 (Reply 23):
I think Avianca should keep an eye on the potential of VLN and send a bigger plane

Is AV still sending the F100? Or are they sending the MD83? I saw some pics of the MD is VLN but i thought it was just seasonal.
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:39 am



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28):
Well, even if VH was the worse airline ever, the absence of their two flights is pushing AV´s LF´s high up. That, and the fact that the government is not letting new airlines cover routes from Venezuela to the US.

well there two flights are long gone, the last month were operated with 6 x weekly combined flights CCS-MDE-BOG-MDE-CCS, mostly with under 50 passengers ex and to BOG. Lets see what will hapen there are rumours that Aserca will start CCS-BOG-CCS flights, hopefully, in order the tarifs will go down...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
777jaah
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:44 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
Traffic between Orlando and South America, while recently showing signs of improvement, has collapsed in the past decade

UI don't know about those numbers. I've been in Orlando 3 times for the past 5 years and would have loved to avoid the drive on my way up, and I don't know anyone or have any relatives at all, just on vacation, so you might be forgetting that this item is really important nowdays and be enough reason for a flight.

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
MAH4546
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 30):
UI don't know about those numbers. I've been in Orlando 3 times for the past 5 years and would have loved to avoid the drive on my way up, and I don't know anyone or have any relatives at all, just on vacation, so you might be forgetting that this item is really important nowdays and be enough reason for a flight.

The numbers are accurate, and it is one reason why Orlando's tourism board has started a major push to get South American tourists back. It's been a problem all over, in Miami too, but especially felt in Orlando. One reason is the economic problems in Argentina, Brazil, and Venezuela in the late 1990s/early 2000s (and still today for Venezuela). Residents of those three countries typically have the most disposable income in terms, and travel the most to vacation in Florida. Brazilians especially used to big spenders on vacations to Florida.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 25):

By the way the whole idea of the Avianca flight is more geared to local residents than to tourism.

I understand that. Which is why it will work.

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 25):
"TAM, along with most other major South American carriers, already flies to Miami International Airport. But it is interested enough in the Orlando market that it has chartered buses to carry its passengers between Miami and Orlando during particularly busy periods"

Signs that we might see Brazilian carriers at MCO again in the near future.

It's just a sign that TAM, which operates a vacation/tour company out of Miami, is offering a service to take Brazilians to Disney World. When Orlando-Brazil can fill a premium cabin, the market will be served again.

[Edited 2007-11-19 12:17:55]
a.
 
bongo
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:26 pm



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
AIRES:
BOG-NYC, 7 weekly

Plane?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
777jaah
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:31 pm



Quoting Bongo (Reply 32):
Plane?

Probably they'll start the rpute after the first 330s arrive, and some 767s will be available, whihc are perfect for the route.

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3649
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:11 pm



Quoting Avianca (Reply 29):
well there two flights are long gone, the last month were operated with 6 x weekly combined flights CCS-MDE-BOG-MDE-CCS, mostly with under 50 passengers ex and to BOG. Lets see what will hapen there are rumours that Aserca will start CCS-BOG-CCS flights, hopefully, in order the tarifs will go down...

Even if they are long gone, it hasnt even been a year. The only competition AV is facing is a daily LAN A319, which comes from LIM, so thats no more than 40-50 seats a day being offered. Even if ASERCA start CCS-BOG-CCS, AV won´t step the capacity down. They will push hard for the dominance of the market.
 
Avianca
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:28 am



Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 34):
Even if they are long gone, it hasnt even been a year. The only competition AV is facing is a daily LAN A319, which comes from LIM, so thats no more than 40-50 seats a day being offered. Even if ASERCA start CCS-BOG-CCS, AV won´t step the capacity down. They will push hard for the dominance of the market.

If y remember well the double daily is gone over a year now... (not 100% sure about it..) didnt they had for a short time even 3 daily flights? Btw as I know the LAN A319 is also already gone again....

Well I never stated that AV will step down the capacity, the oposite, I am sure we will see soon 6 flights per day (not only for high season... maybe even 7 flights, with 2 night stops in CCS arriving arround 21:00pm and leaving at 06:45 am and the second overnight arriving arround 11:50pm and 00:15 am and leaving CCS at arround 08:00 or 08:30 am....

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Summa767
Topic Author
Posts: 1751
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:54 pm

MORE ON AIRES:

They have extended their application for frequencies to the US:
Apart from the one already mentioned, namely BOG-NYC, they have requested the following:

To FLL from:
Medellin - 7 weekly
Cali - 7 weekly
Barranquilla - 7 weekly
Cartagena -7 weekly
Bucaramanga, 3 weekly

Routes to the US would be served with Airbus A320 or 737-700
The fact that Aires has not seemingly decided on what aircraft will operate these proposed routes, makes one wonder how much floor these plans have.

In addition, they applied for 4 weekly freqs from Bucaramanga to Panama. The interesting part is that the bilateral does not allow for more frequencies, but at the last audience, Aerocivil granted AeroRepublica 3 "extra-bilateral" frequencies- as they had expressed that the Panamanian authority would accept their extra flights as a unilateral gesture. It did so indeed, and why not, as it was in the benefit of Copa itself.
But what will happen now? If the Colombian and Panamanian authorities act discriminatingly against Aires, proposing to flying the same route on a smaller aircraft, I expect some legal action  Smile

That might well be the same reason that Avianca also applied for 3 "extra bilateral frequencies" on the BOG-PTY route. Although in that case, the route is not the same, it is already served, and so there would be less of a case.
 
bongo
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:01 pm



Quoting 777jaah (Reply 33):
Probably they'll start the rpute after the first 330s arrive, and some 767s

For AIRES??? Did I miss something?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:29 pm



Quoting Bongo (Reply 37):
For AIRES??? Did I miss something



AV of course..........
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
avianca707359b
Posts: 156
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:32 pm



Quoting Summa767 (Reply 36):

To FLL from....Bucaramanga, 3 weekly

Oh come on, Bucaramanga to Ft Lauderdale?

On AIRES?

Is this realistic?

It's a charming city with a population of over 1 million and I imagine for those living in "BGA" this would be a dream come true (if they happen to be travelling to FLL), but can you really fill 3 A320's per week?

I guess you have to start somewhere, but I'm not convinced.
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
2travel2know
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RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 39):
It's a charming city with a population of over 1 million and I imagine for those living in "BGA" this would be a dream come true (if they happen to be travelling to FLL), but can you really fill 3 A320's per week?

Maybe Airoes will be offering land or air transportation for those in CUC wishing to use those BGA-FLL service?
But isn't FLL's F.I.S. already very much overcrowded most of the day?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:58 pm



Quoting 777jaah (Reply 38):
Quoting Bongo (Reply 37):
For AIRES??? Did I miss something



AV of course..........

Read the topic  Smile
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2299
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:30 pm

Everybody seems to be forgetting several things:

1) Applying for a route does not equate to actually opening the route. Many of these applications, if granted, will never actually take place, and it is completely normal. Route authorities are important assets and airlines will like to grab as many authorities as possible, whether they have plans to use them or not.

I am surprised to see everybody so shocked with these applications. It has been a tradition for years.

2) AIRES is most probably applying for all these services to Fort Lauderdale considering the possibility of a future negotiation with Spirit Airlines. I doubt they are planning to operate them themselves. AIRES is a stable company, but they do not have the financial capacity to acquire the aircraft needed to operate these services. After all, it is obvious that Spirit would be much more interested in investing in a small Colombian airline IF this airline already has rights to fly to FLL from all over Colombia. That's what I call having vision.


SA.

[Edited 2007-11-20 08:32:53]

[Edited 2007-11-20 08:34:01]
 
shadez
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:33 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:54 pm

Yep, it's obvious NK and Aires are doing all they can to obtain as many frequencies as possible. Isn't Barranquilla open skies? Do they still have to apply for it?
 
jfk777
Posts: 5830
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:06 pm

I welcome all the new service to Barranquilla and Cartagena but even if fares fall 50% is there a market for 3 or four BAQ to Florida flights daily ? Two I can see making a profit. More I can't. The Colombia-USA market is largely inelastic, so price doesn't increase demand.
 
777jaah
Posts: 852
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:43 pm



Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 42):
That's what I call having vision

Don't be surprised if Aires and Spirit already have an agreement and in some way, Aires requesting for this routes is part of it. Even more i f by any reason, after Aires getting the routes, we hear some news on them being bought by Spirit.

JAAH
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
Summa767
Topic Author
Posts: 1751
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:30 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:02 pm



Quoting Summa767 (Thread starter):
SAM, and here is a surprise:
BAQ-MIA, 7 weekly
CTG-MIA, 7 weekly

I suppose this is a strategy to reduce capacity in the face of the oncoming competition in CTG and BAQ, by using Fokker 100s instead of the MD83s, that will start to leave the fleet sooner rather than later anyway.

Or would it be as additional frequencies? The only way I can see it working is an extension of the flight from BOG/MDE/CLO flight. How about an evening MDE-CTG-MIA, returning in the morning? Or a CLO-BAQ-MIA?
What do you think?
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:53 pm



Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
dont forget, via BOG they can offer beside the colombian market, connecting flights to SJO, PTY, UIO, GYE, VLN, CCS, LIM, SLC, GRU, EZE soon ASU.. and maybe its the first sight in order to entering star!

I was going to say this. I am sure AV is taking into consideration connecting flights in BOG to the rest of latin america Central, South, Caribbean). I know for sure of several people that are currently flying to MIA just to get connecting flights.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
Maracucho85
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:52 pm

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:49 am



Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
well a flight to Maracaibo is overdue... I am sure AV would make a hell of money also on this route!

I was just going to ask you guys about this. MAR has been long waiting for this to exist. Aires has been covering the route, but I'm completely sure a F100 could be easily filled for a flight to BOG. I really hope AV is looking at MAR as a possible route. Do any of you know anything else about this?

Best regards from Venezuela,

Alberto
 
Avianca
Posts: 5270
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: AV Applies For MCO, IAD. + Other News

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:11 am



Quoting Maracucho85 (Reply 48):
I really hope AV is looking at MAR as a possible route. Do any of you know anything else about this?

well get last week the information that the route is considered by AV management... I am sure we will see AV latest January 2009 (as mentioned latest) in MAR
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia

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