lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:40 am

"Pilot arrested at MSP airport for being drunk, carrying weapon"

"A source confirmed tests showed Acree's alcohol levels as high as 0.16; twice the legal limit to drive"


http://kstp.com/article/stories/S262046.shtml?cat=1



WTF was he thinking? Kiss his aviation career bye-bye  banghead 
 
HUbsnotDubs
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:14 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:43 am

This is always sad, but so avoidable.
 
Nuori5084
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:25 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:58 am



Quoting HUbsnotDubs (Reply 1):
This is always sad, but so avoidable.

Sad? You've got to be kidding.




We all have choices in life and being responsible should be number one. I have no remorse for this guy.
Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:02 am

Somehow he gets approved to carry a gun in the flight deck, which means he had to pass a lot of screening. But then does the stupid thing of drinking and then flying. He'll watch his life go down the crapper.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:50 am



Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
WTF was he thinking?

That's the problem, he wasn't.

All he can do at this point is enroll at AA, get some help, prove he is getting help, and ask for forgiveness. If he is forgiven, he gets a second chance, but he will stand on very thin ice for the rest of his aviation life. If he's not, his pilot-life is over. Nobody else will hire him.
 
ushermittwoch
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:18 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:06 pm

Maybe he can get hired in Saudi Arabia for domestic flights. That should eliminate the drinking.  Wink
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
contrails
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 11:53 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:10 pm



Quoting Nuori5084 (Reply 2):
We all have choices in life and being responsible should be number one. I have no remorse for this guy.

I agree, but I'd hate to be him when he woke up the next morning.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
Boeing12345
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:13 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:24 pm

Another week of Midwest Airlines making the news.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:25 pm



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
He'll watch his life go down the crapper.

Who cares about his life? He needs to care about the hundreds of other lives he's responsible for.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):
All he can do at this point is enroll at AA, get some help, prove he is getting help, and ask for forgiveness.

Sorry, call me harsh, but I don't believe he should be rehired. You have one shot at it, you blow it, you blow it. What tells you he won't do it again? Do you want to risk it? What if something had happened to the passenger?
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:33 pm



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
Sorry, call me harsh, but I don't believe he should be rehired. You have one shot at it, you blow it, you blow it. What tells you he won't do it again? Do you want to risk it? What if something had happened to the passenger?

Suggest you do some research on the FAA HIMS program. Seems as though the professionals disagree with you.
Fly fast, live slow
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:35 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
Suggest you do some research on the FAA HIMS program.

Will do, but care to elaborate?
 
davescj
Posts: 1121
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:59 pm



Quoting Nuori5084 (Reply 2):
We all have choices in life and being responsible should be number one. I have no remorse for this guy.

Yes, and I agree. But it is a shame that one VERY stupid act destroyes his life.

Look how many drunk drivers are allowed to enter treatment and get drivers liscence back.

Isn't there some way for him to pull himself into treatment and come back to work?

Though it should be with checks etc for the rest of his flying career.

A link from the Ohio State Bar about the FAA HIMS program:

http://www.ohiobar.org/pub/lycu/index.asp?articleid=416


Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1187
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:10 pm



Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):

All he can do at this point is enroll at AA

You dont really "enroll" at AA, but rather just show up and be with other people who also have ZERO control over their drinking and take suggestions from them on how to live your life free of such bondage!

But ,yeah, poor guy has prbably blown alot of opportunity and it appears to me from this forum that many more crews than realized have similar issues!

OK , flame me now, but I think union issues may sometimes get in the way of recognizing early on that a problem exists and that intervention could save some carreers, like having other members police each other during RON's or something , but I suppose that would be too intrusive,, NO easy solutions but the penalties for this carreer are quite ruinous!
 
Jpax
Posts: 715
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:01 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:32 pm

Bump +1 for the seniority list.
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:37 pm



Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):
All he can do at this point is enroll at AA, get some help, prove he is getting help, and ask for forgiveness

The problem is AA does not help, and yet people are forced to go. AA tries to take away peoples will power, and tell them they are 'powerless' to their 'disease'. And no matter how long you have abstained from alcohol they still tell you that you are an alcoholic! "Hi, I am bill and i have not drank for 15 years, i am an alcoholic" NO YOUR NOT BILL!!!

I have seen peoples lives get really messed up because of AA, it ruines more lives then it helps, and those it helps it does not help properly.

If someone needs to quit, just stop drinking. There are really good methods of quitting addictions, AA is not one of them.



On Topic, the guy made a very stupid mistake! The problem is, until most people get caught, they rationalize it to themselves that they are not doing anything wrong.
 
727forever
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:42 pm

Uh, did any of you actually read the article. Less of what his attorney said, but more of what the company said at the end of the article. Paraphrasing, but the Midwest Airlines spokesmand said that the company limit is .02 pBAC and that the pilot blew less than that.

<
Hogan said no charges have been filed. A call to the airport police department seeking more details of the arrest was not returned.

The pilot has not flown since that day and will not fly until Midwest completes an investigation into the incident, said Michael Brophy, the airline's spokesman. The airline followed its standard policy of removing him and launching an investigation, he said.

"The safety of our passengers and our employees is critical to us, so when these kind of issues arise we take them seriously and investigate them and take immediate action as appropriate," Brophy said. "But because we haven't completed the investigation we can't draw any conclusions as to how this is going to turn out."

Midwest's alcohol policy sets a limit of 0.02 for pilots, Brophy said, noting the pilot's blood alcohol level came in below that.

He would not say if the pilot was being paid pending his removal from flying.>> From the KSTP.com article.


Why are we always ready to hang the pilot in our society before we actually investigate to see if there is cause. We take the word of the person just hired from McDonalds to make sure that your shoes are in the little gray tub as the gospel. I guess I shouldn't be surprised on these boards, after all we start a new argument every week on when NW will retire the DC-9s.

727forever
727forever
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:51 pm

727forever's Post is the only one that makes sense. The guy's BAC was less than .02. He wasn't drunk. He wasn't under the influence. Mouthwash, or breath spray could trigger that reading. One beer will create about a .03 to .04 or more. The guy who should be fired is the TSA schmuck who said he smelled like alcohol. No way could he have smelled like alcohol with a reading that low. Are Midwest's pilots non union? Where is ALPA on this? And why was he arrested? In Most States, a BAC below .04 is conclusive proof someone is not under the influence, i.e., they cannot be arrested or prosecuted. Here, the pilot's BAC level was less than HALF that. I don't want to be suspended, but before you kids start trashing this guy, read the article. The guy's career is not in the toilet.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:51 pm



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 14):
it ruines more lives then it helps



Quoting BlueSkys (Reply 14):
and those it helps it does not help properly.

Where are the stats for these allegations? It would definitely help your statements if it was backed with facts.
You can't cure stupid
 
777-200
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:53 pm



Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
"A source confirmed tests showed Acree's alcohol levels as high as 0.16; twice the legal limit to drive"

Where did that quote come from then?
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:59 pm



Quoting Milesrich (Reply 16):
727forever's Post is the only one that makes sense.

The article is bullshit. When this thread was originally posted the article stated that the pilot blew a .15. the article has since changed to say less then .01. Once again the media has screwed up.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:03 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 19):
Once again the media has screwed up.

The media never get it right. It comes down to selling a story to the public to get the ratings, at the cost of poor reporting. At least the media is consistent about this.
You can't cure stupid
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:05 pm



Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
"Pilot arrested at MSP airport for being drunk, carrying weapon"

Why was this thread altered? Because no where does it mention a gun and the pilot is probably an FFDO.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:31 pm

"A source confirmed tests showed Acree's alcohol levels as high as 0.16; twice the legal limit to drive"

Where did that quote come from then?[/quote]

Not from that article. There is also nothing about a weapon in the article. Are we talking about the same incident?

FWIW, my take is that the TSA guy did the right thing - suspicion of alcohol in flight crew? call the authorities. I'm sure fellow crew or airline operations would do the same thing, and rightly so - heck I'm sure that pilot would do the same thing. Then, they should certainly investigate, and will likely need to replace the pilot on that flight (if for no other reason than to make sure, as portable "roadside" breathalizers are only but so reliable).

But why suspend him if he was below the limit?
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:35 pm



Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 22):
But why suspend him if he was below the limit?

It is company policy to suspend someone for at least 3 days while they investigate any type of serious incident that could be in violation of company policy.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:36 pm



Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 22):
"A source confirmed tests showed Acree's alcohol levels as high as 0.16; twice the legal limit to drive"

Where did that quote come from then?

Not from that article. There is also nothing about a weapon in the article. Are we talking about the same incident? [/quote]

Both were in the article when this thread was first posted. Now it has disappeared. Looks like the media is up to its usual dishonest tricks.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 22):
"A source confirmed tests showed Acree's alcohol levels as high as 0.16; twice the legal limit to drive"

Where did that quote come from then?

Not from that article. There is also nothing about a weapon in the article. Are we talking about the same incident?

Most likely, the "source" wasn't as informed as he or she claimed.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 23):
Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 22):
But why suspend him if he was below the limit?

It is company policy to suspend someone for at least 3 days while they investigate any type of serious incident that could be in violation of company policy.

Makes sense.



Now, let's get back to discussing those DC9s'

[Edited 2007-11-20 08:56:19]
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:50 pm



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 10):
Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):
Suggest you do some research on the FAA HIMS program.

Will do, but care to elaborate?

Amazing what a search on Google can turn up! http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...emid=10994&ModuleId=6602&Tabid=256

Not to beat a dead horse, but right or wrong this pilot is innocent until proven guilty. There have been several incidents where pilots have been "over the limit" only to find out all the "facts" as reported by the media were wrong. Perhaps people on this forum should just delay their rush to judgement and wait for the truth to surface.
Fly fast, live slow
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:05 pm

Regardless of what was or wasn't said, what the alcohol was or wasn't and what was reported how to what degree, the bottom line is crew shouldn't have any alcohol content at work.

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 16):
Mouthwash, or breath spray could trigger that reading.

And crew should also know that there are products that are alcohol free to be used. If your job is that important to you, then maybe you should be doing things that wouldn't set yourself up for possible or probable cause for job loss and media attention. That includes using products (such as mouthwash or a breath spray) that contain alcohol.

Is your career really worth trashing over any amount of alcohol content? Is alcohol that important to you that you need it in mouthwash or breath spray, when alternatives are available (especially when you are in a job where a) people are always on the lookout for possibilities, b) you are subject to random drug and alcohol testings and c) you are under the watchful eye or the travelling public, government employees and co-workers for anything suspicious).

It's called being proactive.

I know enough not to throw myself under a bus and ruin a perfectly good career, excellent salary, close ties to friends and a passion over something as trivial as alcohol or products containing alcohol.

The pilot in question knows better. Any pilot knows better.

Is his career over? Maybe, maybe not. That is not for anyone of us to decide. His career will be followed closely, though. Regardless of how or what was used to get that reading and media attention, I hope it was worth it.
You can't cure stupid
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:11 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 26):
Amazing what a search on Google can turn up! http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/A...emid=10994&ModuleId=6602&Tabid=256

Not to beat a dead horse, but right or wrong this pilot is innocent until proven guilty. There have been several incidents where pilots have been "over the limit" only to find out all the "facts" as reported by the media were wrong. Perhaps people on this forum should just delay their rush to judgement and wait for the truth to surface.

Ahhh sarcasm! While the report that I found was nearly 25 pages long, I was asking what specific you were referring to. All the above comments are of course contingent upon the pilot ACTUALLY being guilty. That being said, alcohol was obviously strong enough for the agent to ground the pilot, righteously so! I don't believe pilots should drink before they fly, whether their tolerance is 0.01 or 0.1.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 1716
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RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:16 pm

Milwaukee article playing up the was he? Wasn't he? angle. Nice pix of the pilot. Remembeer, smile when you get booked. You look less guilty.

http://www.todaystmj4.com/
 
daus
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 5:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:21 pm

UPDATE: Midwest says pilot wasn't drunk
A Midwest Airlines pilot suspected of being drunk before a scheduled flight from the Twin Cities International Airport last week had a blood-alcohol level of .016, which was below the threshold set by the airlines' policy and federal law, a Midwest spokesman reported this morning.

No charges have been filed in the case of the pilot, who reportedly was stopped by a Transportation Safety Administration official at a security checkpoint on Nov. 12, before a 3:20 flight from the Twin Cities to Milwaukee.

Michael Brophy, a Midwest spokesman, said the pilot has been removed from flight duty, pending an investigation by company officials.

Midwest policy prohibits pilots from flying with a blood-alcohol level of .02 and the federal law sets the limit at .04, Brophy said.

The pilot's attorney, Arthur Martinez, said the pilot had not consumed any alcohol within eight hours of the flight, and did not violate any of the FAA regulations.

He blamed Minneapolis television reports for badly distorting the story to suggest that his client's blood-alcohol level was over the limit set by federal law.

Martinez told the Associated Press his client had been cleared by the police and federal prosecutors had declined to prosecute. However, he said Hennepin County prosecutors may review the case.

"If anything he was a 0.01 (percent)," Martinez said of his client's blood-alcohol level. "You could be chewing some type of gum or had Listerine. Many different things contain alcohol."

For comparison, the legal limit for driving in Minnesota is a blood-alcohol level of 0.08%.

The pilot's wife, reached by phone at her suburban Milwaukee home Tuesday morning, said, "There were no laws broken. This has gotten totally blown out of proportion for some reason we don't know."

The Associated Press contributed to this report
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:25 pm



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 29):
Ahhh sarcasm! While the report that I found was nearly 25 pages long, I was asking what specific you were referring to. All the above comments are of course contingent upon the pilot ACTUALLY being guilty. That being said, alcohol was obviously strong enough for the agent to ground the pilot, righteously so! I don't believe pilots should drink before they fly, whether their tolerance is 0.01 or 0.1.



Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
Sorry, call me harsh, but I don't believe he should be rehired. You have one shot at it, you blow it, you blow it. What tells you he won't do it again? Do you want to risk it? What if something had happened to the passenger?

First of all, why do you now qualify your remarks? Secondly, where is the implication that drinking is tolerated? Finally your position was he should be fired and not rehired. The FAA seems to disagree and the HIMS program is an example of the program it has to ensure rehabilitation and not punative actions.

The link I provided wasn't 25 pages and it's written so even pilots can understand the point that's being made....

As far as alcohol being strong enough to be detected, I'm not convinced that's true. I have witnessed many TSA/Ground Staff (fill in the blank)/ flight crew disagreements, there is the potential for either party to pick up the phone and make a call. From that point on it becomes a feeding frenzy. This thread is a perfect example.
Fly fast, live slow
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:26 pm



Quoting Daus (Reply 31):
"You could be chewing some type of gum or had Listerine. Many different things contain alcohol."

He should know better than to use these types of products. Like I posted before

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 28):
And crew should also know that there are products that are alcohol free to be used. If your job is that important to you, then maybe you should be doing things that wouldn't set yourself up for possible or probable cause for job loss and media attention. That includes using products (such as mouthwash or a breath spray) that contain alcohol.

Is your career really worth trashing over any amount of alcohol content? Is alcohol that important to you that you need it in mouthwash or breath spray, when alternatives are available (especially when you are in a job where a) people are always on the lookout for possibilities, b) you are subject to random drug and alcohol testings and c) you are under the watchful eye or the travelling public, government employees and co-workers for anything suspicious).

It's called being proactive.

I know enough not to throw myself under a bus and ruin a perfectly good career, excellent salary, close ties to friends and a passion over something as trivial as alcohol or products containing alcohol.

The pilot in question knows better. Any pilot knows better.

You can't cure stupid
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:40 pm



Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 30):
Milwaukee article playing up the was he? Wasn't he? angle. Nice pix of the pilot. Remembeer, smile when you get booked. You look less guilty.

Geez, there's some strong allegations in that story:

"Airport documents obtained by that Minneapolis TV station reveal that Acree failed two of three sobriety tests"

"KSTP TV reports that charges are pending against Scott Acree"

If it turns out to be wrong (i.e., if he did blow .01) there could be one hell of a defamation suit.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 26):
Not to beat a dead horse, but right or wrong this pilot is innocent until proven guilty. There have been several incidents where pilots have been "over the limit" only to find out all the "facts" as reported by the media were wrong

 checkmark 

Not that you need another, but welcome to my RR list.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:41 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 32):
your position was he should be fired and not rehired

No, I said he should not be rehired.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:44 pm

Once again, I side with MilesRich post 16. No where in the above article was the work DRUNK used. If you blow a .01' or .02 you are good to go as far as driving is concerned. As stated, mouthwash will give you a .01 reading.
In this state .05 to .079 is impared....08 or over is by law, drunk.
I use an inhaler for asthma and I can blow .04 within a minute after using...so
post 28 in moot.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
727forever
Posts: 304
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:53 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 33):
He should know better than to use these types of products. Like I posted before

If the guy has donkey a** breath, I would rather that he use the product to knock it down than to have to sit up there in that little closet of a room with him for hours smelling the odors. Perhaps other products were not available for this guy that day.

Should the airline go after the TSA once this has been proven to be a false accusation? Absolutely. There was a case a couple of years ago in which the TSA accused a UA Captain of being under the influence. They pulled her off the flight deck, arrested her, and then the TSA dropped a dime to the media. Turns out she hadn't had a drop of alchohol in days. It got so blown out of proportion, much like this case, that UA management decided to do something about it. The next day a group of managers flew down to Washington and had a few words with the director of the TSA. A few people lost their jobs over it but it sounds as though things haven't changed and pilots will continue to be lynched in the media and the airlines will be forced to pick up the tab for cancelled flights and inconvenienced passengers so that a few TSA morons and arrest happy Airport Cops can be heros.

727forever
727forever
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting 777-200 (Reply 18):
Where did that quote come from then?

Last night when KSTP first posted it, the article was on of the top three in BOLD letters kind a deal. This quote was cut and pasted from their original article.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 21):
Why was this thread altered? Because no where does it mention a gun and the pilot is probably an FFDO.

Holy crap did KSTP change what the first article put out. First one said he was arrested in cockpit, failed two sobriety tests, had weapon, and blood alcohol was .016.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 24):
Both were in the article when this thread was first posted. Now it has disappeared. Looks like the media is up to its usual dishonest tricks.

Exactly. I can't believe they got THAT MANY facts wrong about the case and still managed to put it out complete with mug shot and all. Makes me wonder how much "news" I really trust coming from KSTP now. How very, very pathetic.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:06 pm



Quoting 727forever (Reply 37):
If the guy has donkey a** breath, I would rather that he use the product to knock it down than to have to sit up there in that little closet of a room with him for hours smelling the odors.

Personal hygiene is paramount to a customer service job or any job where you are in close proximity to others. Pilots included.

So you would risk your career, your family's earnings, your passion and your reputation because you had donkey a** breath and had to get rid of it with a product containing alcohol, when you know the ramifications of using them?

Crew should know better. Always.

Quoting 727forever (Reply 37):
Perhaps other products were not available for this guy that day.

That is no excuse. Crew can carry liquids and alcohol-free mouthwash, alcohol free breathspray or even alcohol free gum. Be proactive. Hell, a little toothpaste cures that. Last time I checked, most don't have any alcohol, if any do at all.

It is that simple.
You can't cure stupid
 
DCrawley
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:18 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:14 pm

This thread is an excellent example of why you should take everything you read from a media outlet with a grain of salt. It is sad how many people on this forum are always willing to hang the person (with their "guilty before proven innocent" attitude) before they have any concrete facts, especially when it comes to accusations of pilots being over the legal limit alcohol-wise. Once again, the facts are prevailing and proving all the nay-sayers incorrect. I hope this pilot gets his job back soon.

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):

Who cares about his life?

Whoa, no need to be such a prick about it. You didn't even know the situation, the person, or the facts, and yet you are willing to say "to hell with him!"? I am sure many people care about his life, from his family to his friends. Who are you to say that?

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):

Sorry, call me harsh, but I don't believe he should be rehired. You have one shot at it, you blow it, you blow it. What tells you he won't do it again? Do you want to risk it? What if something had happened to the passenger?

I don't think "harsh" is the correct word for you or your statements. After reading your posts in this thread, I would rather call you or your statements "ignorant".

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):

Suggest you do some research on the FAA HIMS program. Seems as though the professionals disagree with you.

I got the new ALPA in the mail the other day and they have quite the article on the HIMS program. I'm glad it is helping so many peolpe fight their addictions and get back in the cockpit (if they choose to do so).
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
SaturnVRocket
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:52 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:20 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 28):
That includes using products (such as mouthwash or a breath spray) that contain alcohol.

Get real, dude. The guy was in hot water because people love to jump to conclusions. This thread is proof of that.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:23 pm



Quoting SaturnVRocket (Reply 41):
Get real, dude. The guy was in hot water because people love to jump to conclusions. This thread is proof of that.

Hey dude. I am real. I know enough not to use products that may get me into hot water or jeopardise my job.

He should too. Why give anybody any reason to suspect you of anything in the first place?
You can't cure stupid
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:32 pm

The article changed from what it said when the thread was originally posted!!!!!

The first few comments on this article are from when the article confirmed that the pilot was arrested at had a blood alcohol level of 0.16. The article has since changed to say something much different. Obviously the reporter was misinformed.


If you look at the article date, it has two dates meaning that it was changed:

Posted at: 11/19/2007 08:28:04 PM

Updated at: 11/20/2007 10:33:19 AM


Quoting DCrawley (Reply 40):
This thread is an excellent example of why you should take everything you read from a media outlet with a grain of salt. It is sad how many people on this forum are always willing to hang the person (with their "guilty before proven innocent" attitude) before they have any concrete facts, especially when it comes to accusations of pilots being over the legal limit alcohol-wise. Once again, the facts are prevailing and proving all the nay-sayers incorrect. I hope this pilot gets his job back soon.

The original article said he was arrested by police called after he was found intoxicated at a security check point by TSA personnel, so I understand why people are going to jump on that guy.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:34 pm



Quoting 727forever (Reply 37):
Should the airline go after the TSA once this has been proven to be a false accusation? Absolutely.

727forever, I was with you on your first post above, but am not sure I fully agree here... Should airlines put pressure on TSA - or anyone - to NOT report such suspicions? That may be taking it too far.

Quoting 727forever (Reply 37):
pulled her off the flight deck, arrested her, and then the TSA dropped a dime to the media. Turns out she hadn't had a drop of alchohol in days

There's the problem.

There should be a way to quickly assess such allegation without "arresting" anybody. A quick word, so that the authorities can gauge the pilot's condition for themselves and/or do a breath test; then either let the pilot continue, or if that is not possible at worst cause a crew change or delay while it is investigated. If it is handled properly it should not be a big deal.

I"ll put my thoughts this way:
Im sure we all agree that a pilot must no be allowed to fly under the influence.

I'm sure we also will all agree that a pilot who is under the influence on duty must be reported.

By we must also recognize that such reports can (and often are) wrong or exaggerated. Investigating the report must be done in a way that is fair to the vast majority of pilots who would never take such chances (they deserve no less). The suspicion should be treated as only that, and if the pilot has done nothing wrong that should be the end of it without a media circus, unfounded allegations, suspensions and what not.

Returning to the UA captian in 727forever's example, whoever tipped off the media should be hung, drawn and quartered (prefereably at FL350). If they received $ for the tip off, then the more so.
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:49 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 42):
Hey dude. I am real. I know enough not to use products that may get me into hot water or jeopardise my job.

He should too. Why give anybody any reason to suspect you of anything in the first place?

Honestly, I think you're arguing one giant moot point here. The blood test proved him to be under the legal limit, the breathlyzer is irrelevant.

Furthermore, I've drank enough to know alcohol smells nothing like mouthwash when eminated. How exactly would you even get to the point of being tested with a breathlyzer if someone smelled only minty fresh Listerine on your breath? That doesn't make any sense. In any case, ask for the blood test, it's much more conclusive and accurate than any breathlyzer is.

Anyway, threads like these just make me shake my head, i.e. getting lectures from 13 year olds about alcohol and being under the influence and how pilots should have their careers thrown away for a .016 BAC. Here's a tip kids, if you don't know what you're talking about, THEN STOP TALKING!
PHX based
 
777-200
Posts: 959
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting SaturnVRocket (Reply 41):

Get real, dude. The guy was in hot water because people love to jump to conclusions. This thread is proof of that.

I know, right.. I mean shit the Atkins diet low carb diet can raise your BAC
Another Day, Another Dollar.... Young Jeezy
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:51 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 28):
If your job is that important to you, then maybe you should be doing things that wouldn't set yourself up for possible or probable cause for job loss and media attention. That includes using products (such as mouthwash or a breath spray) that contain alcohol......The pilot in question knows better. Any pilot knows better......He should know better than to use these types of products......Crew should know better. Always.....That is no excuse.....I know enough not to use products that may get me into hot water or jeopardise my job. He should too. Why give anybody any reason to suspect you of anything in the first place?

I understand the message of your posts, but it appears you may need to preach less of a Temperance tone for us to take your stance seriously. Airline crews have important duties but are not to be held in a position any higher than workers of a thousand other jobs, so your rigid advice with impractical undercurrents serves no purpose other than to encourage paranoia and an attitude among crews that someone may be 'out to get them' at any given time.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11652
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:59 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 39):

So you would risk your career, your family's earnings, your passion and your reputation because you had donkey a** breath and had to get rid of it with a product containing alcohol, when you know the ramifications of using them?

I know you work in the industry, but I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you anyway. My disagreement comes from your assertion that this pilot knew the ramifications of using the product. He knew company policy, he knew the FARs, and most importantly, he knew that he could use X product and still fly the aircraft. Why should he be penalized for overzealous policing? If in fact he did blow less than a 0.02 (and I suspect he blew a 0.016 and that was the source of the confusion), I don't see how we can fault him.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
BlueSkys
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:58 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:05 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 17):
Where are the stats for these allegations? It would definitely help your statements if it was backed with facts.

Just google how AA hurts people. I have met Many Many people that were really hurt by AA and wasted many many years being 'helpless' and relapsing. I wrote a paper in university about quitting addictions and have attended many many meetings disguised as an alcoholic.

The first problem is that they make you believe you have a disease and you are helpless to it, and that ONLY AA can help you. They pound into your head that you cannot do it without them and that you need their 12 step program, they degrade your self confidence and respect. They keep punding into your head that you will die from your disease without the group. When you mention to them that you want to quit on your own, or you know someone that did they tell you that they either were not alcoholics or that they will relapse and die! It really really shocked they hell out of when i heard this from a group that is supposed to help people.

I urge you to attend a few meetings and see for your self how shockingly sick this organization is. The first time i went to a meeting I believed that AA really helps people, after 2 - 3 meetings they begin the process of degrading you and trying to make you believe that you are nothing without the group, that you have a disease, that relapse is a normal part of recovery, and worst of all you are surrounded by such a negative atmosphere where everyone talks about how horrible their life is and how their life was ruined by booze and drugs. It is also a faith based organization, nothing against religion here but it is not up to Jesus to help you quit, it is up to you. Also, AA and other groups are clear public failures, but completely accepted by the public as the only way for an alcoholic or a drug user to abstain from their addiction. Ask anyone what they should do with an alcoholic, they will tell you to send them to AA, ask them about another method to treat alcoholism, and they will give you a blank stare and wont come up with another way.

If AA and group recovery meetings worked, you would not see celebrities constantly in and out of Rehab or AA, and we only hear about the Celebrities and not the common person who is constantly in this relapse cycle. AA makes a person think that they are powerless against alcohol, when in fact they are not. A person is very capable of quitting, whether it is using will power or using other methods that work.

Here is some good literature about AA from a gentleman that has created a great way of abstaining from addiction. His method is great and it works, there are also many other great methods of doing it. It is a long article but it raises very many good points.

http://www.rational.org/why.html
 
ca2ohHP
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:14 am

RE: Drunk Pilot Arrested At MSP

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:15 pm

This guy blew a 0.01 and people think it's "Drunk?"

TSA = Trained Sniffers of Alcohol

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