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1337Delta764
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Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:24 am

I have been wondering lately why Delta did not order the 757-300. I think that it would have been a good addition to Delta's domestic fleet. It would have also made a good replacement for the 767-200s and would have complemented the domestic 767-300s. I know that at the time the 757-300 was produced, Delta wasn't looking into retiring their 767-200s, but when Delta started to lose money leading into bankruptcy, Delta referred the 767-200 as their "least efficient widebody". I personally think that had Delta ordered the 757-300, it would have taken place of the 767-200s and could be operating today with Delta's signature Delta On Demand IFE with live satellite TV.

Does anyone have an opinion on this?
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tinpusher007
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:36 am

Yes, I think the 753 would have been a good fit for DL's domestic fleet. But what you mentioned before about them starting to lose money is what halted any plans for A/C purchases. Remember also that getting rid of the 762's wasn't just about getting rid of an inefficient airplane but also reducing capacity.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:29 am



Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 1):
s, It halted any plans for A/C purchases. Remember also that getting rid of the 762's wasn't just about getting rid of an inefficient airplane but also reducing capacity.

This is a good point. In hindsight, this would have been a great plane for Delta, but at the time they could have purchased it, the 757-300 would have filled a relatively small gap in their fleet between the 757-200 and 767-200.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:37 am

Because they bought the 767-400 for domestic service.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:15 am

The 753 would have been a good addition for UA, AA and DL. Boeing waited too long to launch the 753 (1996) by which time the US majors had received most of their 752 fleets.

Had the 753 been offered earlier (say 90 or 92), no doubt it would have garnered more orders.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:40 am



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
Had the 753 been offered earlier (say 90 or 92), no doubt it would have garnered more orders.

I agree, but it still would've likely been a niche airplane, just more successful than it is now. It would've been a great 762 replacement not only for DL, but AA as well (yes, I know they still have many of their 762's). However, when DL retired their 762's in the early-mid 2000's, they were not in good financial shape (remember all of the "Will DL survive" threads?) and were definitely not in the positition to make another aircraft order. Even if they did, it would've been sort of a niche airplane, with probably no more than about 20 of them. If it was out in the early-mid '90's, I think some airlines (name UA, DL, and AA) would've possibly them, maybe a few years later (late '90's) to supplement their 767-300's on domestic routes, and to replace the DC-10/L-1011.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:57 am

Regardless of the -200 or -300 type, the 757 is truly the most popular airliner AFTER its discontinuation. CO would fly on to every European city it could if it had the REALLY long range of a 767, but no. Personally, I would love to have seen the 797 built to be everything the 757 is but with even greater fuel efficiency, higher cruising speed, and distances capable of EWR-IST or EWR-Moscow.

However, I don't believe the -300 had quite the capabilities (fuel efficiency, operating economics, etc) of the -200, did it?
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:08 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
However, I don't believe the -300 had quite the capabilities (fuel efficiency, operating economics, etc) of the -200, did it?

...about what you might expect for a stretch... better CASM, worse range, worse runway performance (not that that's horribly relevant for DL).
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
Regardless of the -200 or -300 type, the 757 is truly the most popular airliner AFTER its discontinuation.

Come on Boeing, please us a.netters and PLEASE resume production of the 757. Its in very high demand, and its sexy looks & exhilarating takeoff/climb performance really arouse us. Just shorten the range by 500 nm. so we don't have to fly more across the Atlantic.  wink 

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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:49 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
CO would fly on to every European city it could if it had the REALLY long range of a 767

Boeing offered a longer range 752ER and discussed its development with CO and C3. There was no interest at the time.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:16 am



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
Had the 753 been offered earlier (say 90 or 92), no doubt it would have garnered more orders.

Like the early 2000s, that wasn't a great time to be in the airline business... not many new airplanes got ordered.

If US majors had been able to keep growing capacity indefinitely in the '90s and '00s, I think they would have ordered tons of 757-300s. They would have been a perfect replacement for DC-10-10s and early Tristars. (Instead, capacity was reduced, frequency was increased, and most of those planes got replaced by planes even smaller than 757-200s.)

The 757-300 is slightly range challenged, especially in a dense configuration. US transcon and West Coast-Hawaii are the absolute limits for the 757-300, and it's happier on midcons. But there is simply no narrowbody or smaller widebody out there, period, that can match it on CASM. It's a BIG aircraft with tons of seats and yet doesn't burn that much more fuel than other narrowbodies. I think you'll find that you couldn't pry NW and CO's 757-300s away from them with a crowbar. And DL, with all those costly 767 domestic flights, could have saved a lot of money with 757-300s had it been in a position to buy them.

And for those of us who care about such things, it doesn't have the climb or field performance of a 757-200, but compared with other stretch aircraft (say 737-900s or A321s) it does just fine. The existence of the 757-300 really shows just how overpowered the 757-200 is.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:43 am



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 10):
But there is simply no narrowbody or smaller widebody out there, period, that can match it on CASM. It's a BIG aircraft with tons of seats and yet doesn't burn that much more fuel than other narrowbodies.

That's impressive when you consider the engines are 35 years old and the basic airframe 25+ years old. With an updated frame and powerplant a 757 NG would be an impressive aircraft. I imagine it's performance in terms of range/payload as well as operating economics would be outstanding.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:30 am



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
Had the 753 been offered earlier (say 90 or 92), no doubt it would have garnered more orders.

No doubt about that. IMHO, at least 200 orders sounds realistic (25-30 each for AA, CO, DL, NW and UA, plus quite a few with charter airlines in Europe).

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
Boeing offered a longer range 752ER and discussed its development with CO and C3. There was no interest at the time.

C3? (shows as Angola Air Charter). Anyway, I'm not sure if Boeing was even serious about the 752ER proposal. That said, had Boeing offered a "sort-off" 757NG in the early to mid-90s with the 753 and the 752ER, with good capacity/range respectively and the 757-typical low-CASM, things could have lasted way longer for the 757. But oh well, you know what they say about hindsight.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:33 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 10):
The 757-300 is slightly range challenged, especially in a dense configuration. US transcon and West Coast-Hawaii are the absolute limits for the 757-300

The 753 can do shorter transatlantic. Thomas Cook has flown YYZ-Hannover regularly with the 753. But overall it is range challenged bsaed on some possible missions.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 12):
C3? (shows as Angola Air Charter). Anyway, I'm not sure if Boeing was even serious about the 752ER proposal.

C3 ~ Canada 3000. My acronym. LH was also offered a 752ER when they evaluated the 753.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:56 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
However, I don't believe the -300 had quite the capabilities (fuel efficiency, operating economics, etc) of the -200, did it?

As Seabosdca mentioned, the 757-300 has a great CASM that's hard for other narrowbodies and the 762/A310 to match. It is probably the lowest CASM plane in both NW's and CO's fleets. The 757-200 does not match the operating economics of the 757-300 (in terms of its CASM), but is still fine. I believe this is simply because there is more revenue to be made with the -300, as it can carry more pax. with similar operating economics. There are not that many planes that were built to fly a short hop of under an hour, yet also fly an 8-9 hour transatlantic run just as well with good operating economics. However I'm fairly sure that both the 739 and A321 both have lower operating economics on domestic flights than the 752, largely due to smaller, more fuel-efficient engines and heavier weight. But I still don't think they quite match even the -200's CASM, correct me if I'm wrong. The 753 does have enough range for some short transatlantic flights (such as YYZ or YUL-Ireland/UK ) and it has been done by some of the UK charter airlines such as Thomas Cook.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:04 pm

IF DL ends up merging with NW...there you have it...instant 753 fleet!  Wink
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:39 pm



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
The 753 would have been a good addition for UA, AA and DL. Boeing waited too long to launch the 753 (1996) by which time the US majors had received most of their 752 fleets.

Had the 753 been offered earlier (say 90 or 92), no doubt it would have garnered more orders.

This is the correct answer........the 753 is a marvelous airplane and an airplane that airlines can makes lots of money with due to its low operating costs, high pax capacity, and versatility, but it was simply the wrong airplane at the wrong time. The 753 came to market when most airlines were looking for smaller airplanes and had no interest in a medium range 225-250 seat airplane.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
However, I don't believe the -300 had quite the capabilities (fuel efficiency, operating economics, etc) of the -200, did it?

Huh? The 753 is more efficient than the 752 due to its increased pax capacity....however, the 753 does trade range for that capacity and cannot operate transatlantic services with any type of meaningful payload. When ATA sends its ATAs on long range transatlantic charters, stops in both Northern Canada and Ireland are generally required......the 753 has the range for US transcon services, West Coast-Hawaii services, and Northern Europe-Canary Island services.

Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Come on Boeing, please us a.netters and PLEASE resume production of the 757

As discussed about a million times, Boeing cannot and will not resume production of the 757. Is it so hard to understand that the machinery needed to produce the 757 no longer exists? It gone......and while the 757 is one fantastic airplane, its based on 1980s technology.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
Boeing offered a longer range 752ER and discussed its development with CO and C3. There was no interest at the time

Correct. The 752ER was the airplane that no one was interested in.......the airlines truly thought that there was no place for a small capacity long range airplane; boy, have times changed.

Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 10):
The existence of the 757-300 really shows just how overpowered the 757-200 is.

Interesting point.

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 13):
C3 ~ Canada 3000. My acronym. LH was also offered a 752ER when they evaluated the 753.

I remember this as well.


--------------

A couple of points to consider:

1. CO tried very hard to get out of its commitment for the 753........it simply did not want the airplane in the post 9/11 era when traffic numbers fell off. CO originally ordered 15 of the type and tried to cancel the order after the first 4 753s were delivered; CO eventually took 9 new build 753s from Boeing and substituted 4 738s for the remaining 753s that were never delivered. When traffic rebounded, CO realized that the 753 was a tremendous asset, especially on certain high demand low yield services, and picked up the ex-ATA airplanes in a very creative deal arranged by Boeing.

2. The 753 could have been a very interesting airplane for Delta......useful for some dense short to medium haul routes out of the ATL super-hub; but it was all about timing, and DL selected the 764ER as its domestic L1011-1 replacement. Again, times have changed, think about it, if DL would have gone with the 753 instead of the 764 as a L1011 replacement, DL would not have been able to grow its international route system so aggressively.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
personally think that had Delta ordered the 757-300, it would have taken place of the 767-200s and could be operating today with Delta's signature Delta On Demand IFE with live satellite TV.

The obsession with IFE continues........the IFE systems could be installed into any airplane operated by DL.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:43 pm



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 9):
There was no interest at the time.

There was interest, just not enough.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:57 pm



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
The 753 could have been a very interesting airplane for Delta......useful for some dense short to medium haul routes out of the ATL super-hub; but it was all about timing, and DL selected the 764ER as its domestic L1011-1 replacement.

I think the 753 would've been great for those ATL-Florida (MCO, MIA, FLL, PBI, TPA, RSW) runs, as well as ATL-SLC, ATL-LAS, ATL-NYC, ATL-BOS, and ATL-DCA. The 764 is now used on some of these routes ("off and on" ATL-MCO/TPA, as well as ATL-SLC and formerly ATL-LGA). The 753 would've had better CASM than the 763's and 764's DL is now using on these dense short-medium haul routes, so it would've worked well as an L-1011 replacement, albeit with a seating capacity more similar to the domestic 763's rather than the L-1011 and its replacement, the 764.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Come on Boeing, please us a.netters and PLEASE resume production of the 757
As discussed about a million times, Boeing cannot and will not resume production of the 757. Is it so hard to understand that the machinery needed to produce the 757 no longer exists? It gone......and while the 757 is one fantastic airplane, its based on 1980s technology.

You took my reply way too seriously; I know that won't ever happen even though we can wish all we want. Couldn't you tell that I was kidding?  Yeah sure

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Correct. The 752ER was the airplane that no one was interested in.......the airlines truly thought that there was no place for a small capacity long range airplane; boy, have times changed.

If Boeing pitched the 752ER some time between now and a few years ago, I don't think that would've been the case.  Wink
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:03 pm

There's no better aircraft for transporting 220 travelers on Domestic routes, the 757-300 is the lowest CASM aircraft in CO's Domestic fleet (I'm sure it's similar for NW). Hindsight being 20/20 of course if knew then what they know now (oil near $100 a barrel, International demand etc) airlines like AA, DL and NWA would have picked up the 757-300. I think they would have had the 9-11 terrorist attacks not happen.

CO utilizes their 17 757-300s to Florida (MCO, FLL, TPA, PBI, RSW), Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Anchorage, San Juan, Santo Domingo, Santiago DR etc..

During the peak travel period to Florida from EWR around the Easter holiday CO runs 10 daily 757-300s between EWR and MCO, I flew this route on the 757-300 last Spring Break and you could not find an empty seat on any of those flights.

NWA utilizes their 757-300s on routes from SEA, PDX, SFO and LAX to Hawaii.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:42 pm

I personally think that Delta could have ordered both the 757-300 and the 767-400ER. CO is satisfied with both aircraft, and continues to operate both today. Yes, I understand that Delta ordered the 767-400ER for high-capacity domestic leisure routes. However, with the shift towards moving the 767-400ERs to top European markets, the 757-300 might have come in handy today. Perhaps if the 757-300 were still in production, it might have gotten an order from Delta later on to replace the 767-200s.
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Alitalia744
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:00 pm

Hindsight is 20/20.

I'm sure DL wishes they had ordered the 753 especially in today's environment. But they didn't.

Chapter closed. For now.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:15 pm



Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Come on Boeing, please us a.netters and PLEASE resume production of the 757. Its in very high demand,

No, it does not have very high demand. If it did, the line would still be open. Boeing tried very hard to fill orders for that line before they decided to close it and there weren't enough takers for it to work out.

Tom.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:34 pm

Sorry to hijack the thread, but in essence of not starting a new thread I'd like to ask a question regarding DL 757s - how do you know if the 757 you'll be flying on has seat-back TVs (ex-Song configuration)?

My flights are ATL-TPA (Flight 1869 on Dec 11) & TPA-ATL (Flight 1746 on Dec 12). Any information is greatly appreciated!  Smile
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 23):
Sorry to hijack the thread, but in essence of not starting a new thread I'd like to ask a question regarding DL 757s - how do you know if the 757 you'll be flying on has seat-back TVs (ex-Song configuration)?

The standard 757 has 24 domestic F seats, while the Transcon ones have 26.

There are also two other configurations for the ETOPS 757s. The ex-ATA ETOPS 757s have the standard layout in Economy, but have only five rows of domestic F. And of course, there is Delta's newly-acquired ex-TWA 757s, which feature 22 domestic F seats and 158 Economy seats, with a different exit layout from Delta's other 757s. The domestic F seats on the ex-TWA 757s will soon be replaced by 16 BusinessElite seats.

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del.../Delta_Airlines_Boeing_757-200.php
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del..._Airlines_Boeing_757-200_Trans.php
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ame...an_Airlines_Boeing_757-200_TWA.php

Yes, I know that SeatGuru hasn't moved the ex-TWA 757 page to the Delta section yet. I assume the site's owner is waiting until they get BusinessElite seats.

[Edited 2007-11-22 11:43:51]
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:45 pm



Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Come on Boeing, please us a.netters and PLEASE resume production of the 757. Its in very high demand, and its sexy looks & exhilarating takeoff/climb performance really arouse us. Just shorten the range by 500 nm. so we don't have to fly more across the Atlantic.

It ain't gonna happen. The production jigs are most likely destroyed by now, contracts with suppliers for the 757 terminated, etc. Restarting production of a long ended aircraft programme costs a lot of money.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:51 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
It ain't gonna happen. The production jigs are most likely destroyed by now, contracts with suppliers for the 757 terminated, etc. Restarting production of a long ended aircraft programme costs a lot of money.



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 22):
No, it does not have very high demand. If it did, the line would still be open. Boeing tried very hard to fill orders for that line before they decided to close it and there weren't enough takers for it to work out.

As I said before, of course I know Boeing won't restart the line due to the issues you mentioned. I was just wishing they'd resume it, like many other a.netters have mentioned in previous threads. As of now, there is no true 757 replacement and fortunately, it looks like they (well, probably not the early models like some of DL's) will be awing us with their takeoff performance for many years to come. Couldn't you guys tell I was joking?  confused 

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 23):
Sorry to hijack the thread, but in essence of not starting a new thread I'd like to ask a question regarding DL 757s - how do you know if the 757 you'll be flying on has seat-back TVs (ex-Song configuration)?

The "Boeing 757-200 Transcontinental" is the model that has the PTV's - these are the ex-Songbirds, although I believe DL converted several of their non-Song 757's to this configuration. They also have live TV channels, such as CNN and ESPN. This IFE is called "Delta On Demand." On DL's website, these are marked under the aircraft type as "752." Then there is the non-transcon 757-200, referred to as Boeing 757-200 2-Class. These aircraft still have the over-aisle CRT's, but don't have any PTV's. These are marked on DL's website as "757." Then, as 1337Delta764 mentioned, the 757's with PTV's will have 7 rows of first class (26 seats), with Y starting in Row 18. The "CRT-only" aircraft have 24 seats in 6 rows. If you're on a non-PTV aircraft, expect a movie along with Delta Visions, which is inflight programming (it'll have stuff such as a travel segment about a certain destination). I believe movies and games on the PTV-equipped planes are $5 in Y, but the live channels are free. Every PTV feature is free in F. If any of the above information is wrong, feel free to correct me.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:07 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
However, I don't believe the -300 had quite the capabilities (fuel efficiency, operating economics, etc) of the -200, did it?

...about what you might expect for a stretch... better CASM, worse range, worse runway performance (not that that's horribly relevant for DL).

I recall reading that at least a couple of carriers decided against the 753 because it would require longer turnaround times and affect on-time performance with hub/spoke operations. Takes longer to board and deplane a full 753 than a twin-aisle aircraft with a similar number of seats.
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:36 pm



Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Just shorten the range by 500 nm. so we don't have to fly more across the Atlantic

Resume production but, instead of shortening the range by 500nm extend it by 500nm, so that we can fly across the Atlantic on it more!
 
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:35 pm

I hate the 753. I remember once being on a NW flight from DTW to MSP on a full 753. Of course, I was in the second to last row.

I timed it from when I first saw movement way up at the front of the plane until when I walked off. 23 minutes.

So airlines might like it, but the poor passengers seated all the way in back hate it.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:41 pm



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 24):
The standard 757 has 24 domestic F seats, while the Transcon ones have 26.



Quoting 747fan (Reply 26):
Then, as 1337Delta764 mentioned, the 757's with PTV's will have 7 rows of first class (26 seats), with Y starting in Row 18. The "CRT-only" aircraft have 24 seats in 6 rows.

Thanks for the wealth of information, guys!  Smile

Just one question, though - on this seating chart, I count 22 F seats. What gives?

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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:06 pm



Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 2):
the 757-300 would have filled a relatively small gap in their fleet between the 757-200 and 767-200.

The 753 is larger than the 762. The 753 would fit a gap between the 752 and 763. Is this what you meant?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
I timed it from when I first saw movement way up at the front of the plane until when I walked off. 23 minutes.

It doesn't take that long on CO. Not sure why it takes so long on NW. Turn times are slower due to the length, but I think 20+ minutes is a rare event.
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:28 am



Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
PLEASE resume production of the 757.

The tooling has been destroyed. There is no way to re-build the tooling again, I don't think. Plus the costs of re-vamping the line for the 757. I believe the 737 has taken over the old 757 line in RNT.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 30):
Just one question, though - on this seating chart, I count 22 F seats. What gives?

If you are asking about seats 6AB, I think there is a closet there and/or a windscreen.
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BlueShamu330s
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:40 am



Quoting 747fan (Reply 8):
Its in very high demand, and its sexy looks & exhilarating takeoff/climb performance really arouse us.

You get aroused by the sight of a 757.....?!  eyepopping 

Shamu  Big grin
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MSYtristar
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:52 am



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 30):
Just one question, though - on this seating chart, I count 22 F seats. What gives?

I was wondering the same thing as my ATL-LAS flight in January has one of the F22 757's. I think those are the regular, non-PTV equipped ones.
 
777STL
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:54 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):
The tooling has been destroyed. There is no way to re-build the tooling again, I don't think. Plus the costs of re-vamping the line for the 757. I believe the 737 has taken over the old 757 line in RNT.

With all due respect, congratulations, you're the 14th person that has repeated this, I think he gets the point.
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AV8AJET
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 30):
Just one question, though - on this seating chart, I count 22 F seats. What gives?

This is an ex: AA/TW plane 22F & 158Y,

The others are 26F & 158Y ex: SONG with PTV's,

&

24F & 159Y original DL 752's with overhead crt screens.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:39 am



Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 36):
This is an ex: AA/TW plane 22F & 158Y,

The ex-TWA aircraft currenty feature drop-down LCDs. They will get AVOD PTVs at the same time that the BusinessElite seating will be installed, which should be some time in December.
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MSYtristar
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:48 am



Quoting AV8AJET (Reply 36):
This is an ex: AA/TW plane 22F & 158Y,

Then there are an awful lot of those flying around because I just looked at flights ATL-JAX/MSY/RDU/LAS/PHL and nearly all of the 757 flights in those markets have the F22 configuration. Just a few have the Song version.

Also, I've yet to find a 757 with the F24 configuration. Maybe they switched it to 22?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:54 am



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 38):
Then there are an awful lot of those flying around because I just looked at flights ATL-JAX/MSY/RDU/LAS/PHL and nearly all of the 757 flights in those markets have the F22 configuration. Just a few have the Song version.

Actually, I just found out that this is in fact NOT an ex-TWA 757. While the ex-TWA 757s feature 22 domestic F seats, the row of two seats is in row 1, featuring a galley to the right of those seats.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:44 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 32):

The tooling has been destroyed. There is no way to re-build the tooling again, I don't think. Plus the costs of re-vamping the line for the 757. I believe the 737 has taken over the old 757 line in RNT.

The tooling can be rebuilt. Boeing still has all the drawings.

The 2nd 737 line is in the space where the 757 used to be build, so you'd need a new building. It's just economically a total non-starter.

Tom.
 
747fan
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:39 am



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 33):
You get aroused by the sight of a 757.....?!

No!!! Maybe the sight of my girlfriend... but not the 757.  Wink I just simply think (and meant in my reply) its a wonderful looking airplane, especially when its performing its trademark steep departure.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
I hate the 753. I remember once being on a NW flight from DTW to MSP on a full 753. Of course, I was in the second to last row.

I timed it from when I first saw movement way up at the front of the plane until when I walked off. 23 minutes.

So airlines might like it, but the poor passengers seated all the way in back hate it.

Well, I believe you, but I don't think that 23 minutes is common for even the 753; there must've been lots of inexperienced travelers or simply passengers that carry lots of luggage. Yes, embarking/disembarking isn't exactly a quick process on any long, single-aisle airplane such as the 753 and even the 752, but I'd think around 15 minutes (maybe 17 or 18) would be closer to the norm for a full aircraft.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 39):
Actually, I just found out that this is in fact NOT an ex-TWA 757. While the ex-TWA 757s feature 22 domestic F seats, the row of two seats is in row 1, featuring a galley to the right of those seats.

That's interesting - did DL add a coat closet or something on their non-AVOD 752's? I remember them having 24 seats, not 22.
 
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United_fan
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:17 pm

As far as DL ordering the 757-300,wasn't the P&W version not available until later. Also,is NW the only 753 P&W operator?
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STT757
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:26 pm



Quoting United_Fan (Reply 42):
Also,is NW the only 753 P&W operator?

Correct, all other 757-300s are RR powered.

I've flown on the 757-300 four times this year (EWR-MCO-EWR and EWR-LAS-EWR), both trips were in First. On the trip back from Las Vegas we were in some choppy weather, the pilot commented that because of the aircraft's length it tends to get real bouncy in the very back of the aircraft (he compared it to the back of a roller coaster). He was making that point to encourage folks to stay seated.

Hindsight being 20/20 DL would have grabbed as many 757-300s as they could have, there's no better way from a CASM perspective to move 220 travelers from Atlanta to Florida, Las Vegas, Los Angeles etc.. It's the perfect aircraft for West Coast-Hawaii flights.
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AmtrakGuy
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:23 pm

Forgive me....I got a question to ask about A321 -- is their CASM similiar to 757-200? and how much difference with 757-300?

And, is it easy (and flexible) to create A321 version of 757-300? Because if I understand, A321 is still in production and Airbus would give the airlines options to consider these new planes from Airbus.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:40 pm



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 44):
And, is it easy (and flexible) to create A321 version of 757-300? Because if I understand, A321 is still in production and Airbus would give the airlines options to consider these new planes from Airbus

I think that you are suggesting that Airbus do a further stretch of the A32X family to create a variant with seating similar to that of the 753?

Firstly, the market for medium range 225 seat airliners is not very large.....while the 753 did come to market at the wrong time, its unlikely that even with better timing that the 753 would have been a huge seller. Its a very very good airplane, but the 753 is a niche airplane.

Secondly, its my understanding that the A32X is maxxed out with the most capable versions of the A321-200....any further stretch of the type would require significant re-engineering of many components of the A32X including landing gear, wings, more powerful powerplants, etc. A huge financial investment would be required for Airbus to come up with a super-sized A321 and its simply not warranted.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:43 pm



Quoting AmtrakGuy (Reply 44):
I got a question to ask about A321 -- is their CASM similiar to 757-200? and how much difference with 757-300?

On missions they can fly the A321 will usually have lower costs than a 757-200. It's a lighter, newer, and more efficient airplane.

But its performance isn't nearly as good. It has much less range than a 757 and worse field performance. Even US transcons have sometimes been a struggle for the A321, as have hot LAS and PHX ops. The 757 handles those missions without breaking a sweat, and is also the perfect aircraft for some very demanding missions -- high-altitude South American airports, transcons out of SoCal regional airports with short runways, etc.

The A321 would need a new, larger wing and new engines to be stretched to 757-300 length (or to match 757-200 performance at the existing length). It wouldn't make economic sense, especially at this late stage in the A320 series' lifecycle.
 
atlantaflyboy
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:20 pm

Regarding the 757 F seating Discrepancies. There are (4) configuarations out there

22F (missing 6a/b), 158Y - Ex-ATA birds w/ overhead CRT's throughout
22F (missing 1c/d), 158Y - Ex-AA birds soon to get 16C, 15bY and avod throughout
24F (6 rows a/b, c/d), 159Y - Original Delta 757 Config w/ CRT's throughout
26F (missing 7c/d), 158Y - Ex-Song birds w/ AVOD throughout

Hope this helps!
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:31 pm

Question here. Could the B757-300's be used on trans-atlantic flghts? Or is the range to short for these flights out of say JFK, BOS ?

chuck
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why Didn't Delta Order The 757-300?

Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:36 pm



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 48):



Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 48):
Question here. Could the B757-300's be used on trans-atlantic flghts? Or is the range to short for these flights out of say JFK, BOS ?

Maybe to Ireland from BOS and JFK, but not much farther.