jtl11968
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 11:56 am

Loads Of VS39/40

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:41 pm

How are the loads on Virgin's Chicago service since it began last April? There's a lot of traffic across the pond from ORD already. BA x 3, UA x 3, AA x 4 and AI.
 
swiftski
Posts: 1837
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:25 am



Quoting JTL11968 (Thread starter):
How are the loads on Virgin's Chicago service since it began last April?

I flew VS39 last Thursday.

Premium Economy had about 50% (I was able to be upgraded)

Economy looked about (estimating here, based roughly on how many people were able to spread across a couple of seats) 60-70% full.

Didn't check UC.

Hope this helps.

Quoting JTL11968 (Thread starter):
There's a lot of traffic across the pond from ORD already. BA x 3, UA x 3, AA x 4 and AI.

Indeed. I chose VS due to Flying Club but there were lots of options. One BA flight lands right after the VS flight.

Can't help with VS40 I'm afraid, as I came back from MIA
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:52 pm



Quoting Swiftski (Reply 1):
I flew VS39 last Thursday.

Premium Economy had about 50% (I was able to be upgraded)

Economy looked about (estimating here, based roughly on how many people were able to spread across a couple of seats) 60-70% full.

..given how cruddy the weather in Chicago is lately, those actually aren't bad numbers. VS will do well from March-September time period (certainly from a tourist perspective).

After New York and Dubai, Chicago has the third most people traveling from London...I would have thought it was Hong Kong or somewhere else, but Dubai is second and Chicago is third.... Wow!
"Up the Irons!"
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:22 am



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):

..given how cruddy the weather in Chicago is lately, those actually aren't bad numbers. VS will do well from March-September time period (certainly from a tourist perspective).

I tend to agree with you, but I still wonder what has changed that would allow VS to be profitable this time around... The 343 is probably a better aircraft for the route, but is that enough difference?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Transpac787
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:34 am



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
After New York and Dubai, Chicago has the third most people traveling from London...I would have thought it was Hong Kong or somewhere else, but Dubai is second and Chicago is third....

..do you have a source to back this up??

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
The 343 is probably a better aircraft for the route, but is that enough difference?

Maybe they're just holding out for the 787  Wink
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:58 am

I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:02 am



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
After New York and Dubai, Chicago has the third most people traveling from London...I would have thought it was Hong Kong or somewhere else, but Dubai is second and Chicago is third....

..do you have a source to back this up??



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 4):
..do you have a source to back this up??

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...6.pdf

 thumbsup 
"Up the Irons!"
 
jtl11968
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 11:56 am

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:38 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3):
but I still wonder what has changed that would allow VS to be profitable this time around...

There's a common misconception that the first time around was not profitable for VS in ORD. In reality, it was ahead of the company's forecasts and growing steadily. It takes about three years to get up to full steam in a market where there is no name recognition. The sales department put decent contracts in place with more to come and cargo was doing well, too. There's was even a rumor of adding a morning flight but I have no proof that it was more than gossip. Around 2000, it didn't take much to woo a client when comparing VS's J product to UA or AA. Our real competition was BA. The reason it closed was the anticipated downturn after 9/11. The board had to make some quick decisions in the days following to make the forthcoming losses less painful. There's a group of people who think SRB makes all the decisions, but he's smart enough to leave that to people who know the business. He's just the PR guy. (a good one too) The first to go were the two cities that would hurt the least, ORD and YYZ. In hindsight, I think a knee-jerk reaction was made. There was early talk of reducing frequency but it was just talk. I know the above to be true because I was one of the staff that got the boot.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11370
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Jtl11968 (Reply 7):

There's a common misconception that the first time around was not profitable for VS in ORD. In reality, it was ahead of the company's forecasts and growing steadily.

Are you really telling me that the ~60% load factor for calendar 2000 was ahead of company forecasts? (By comparison, VS ran >75% in every other US market during 2000.) YYZ and ORD were dropped because they were the worst-performing TATL routes and VS wanted to drastically cut capacity right after 9/11 (not a bad plan, btw). Had they been performing better, other routes would have been cut.

[Edited 2007-11-24 20:59:19]
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jtl11968
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 11:56 am

RE: Loads Of VS39/40

Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:39 am

Service began in November '99 so, yes, 60% (if your stat is correct tho it sounds about right) within one year was ahead of forecast. Other than that, you're restating what I posted previously. Maybe it could have been even higher if we had been given something other than a Classic with small bins and old J seats. At times, it felt like we were the black sheep but when all the other stations have higher loads, they get the better a/c. Bottom line: It was on its way to becoming a good service, not great when compared to other stations, but good.

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