ghost77
Posts: 4461
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:22 pm

We sure have discussed this previously and some other threads go on but these kind of news deserve a new thread!

Rumors have come to an end and words spread out yesterday from AM's CEO

AeroMexico will land in PVG by March 2008 and FCO by April 2008.

Routings:

MEX-MTY-FCO-MTY-MEX and MEX-TIJ-PVG-TIJ-MEX.

Most probably FCO will be done 2X with Boeing 767-200ER and PVG will get 2X with Boeing 777-200ER. Hopefully the 5th Boeing 777 comes in time for this new routes. I would be a nice choice for AZ to place its code in AM's flight. So good to see AM back in FCO.

g77
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
XA744
Posts: 630
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:40 pm

Agree, this kind of news very well deserved to start a new thread !!!

Thanks for the update Ghost.

I think Aeromexico will do great to these two new destinations !!!

Very interesting developments and challenges coming up for AM !!!

Best regards

[Edited 2007-11-23 14:46:43]
No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
 
AM744
Posts: 1435
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:49 pm

Great!!! Two Asian and four european destinations will be great. All that's missing is London! I'd give a try to PVG from a touristic perspective.
 
A388
Posts: 7175
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:26 pm

This is indeed good news. I am glad to see AM expand into Asia. That will be one of the most exotic aircraft in PVG I think as there are no South American airlines currently flying to PVG or China in general.

Good luck to AM!

A388
 
LIPZ
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:29 am

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:33 am

Good to see Aeromexico expanding its network!

Which cities in Europe does AM serve now?

[Edited 2007-11-23 16:33:50]
 
carnoc
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 3:15 pm

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:46 am

In regard to Aeromexico's PVG service: Mexico's Secretary of Foreign Relations Patricia Espinosa Cantellano said in China that Aeromexico has indicated an intention to start a service to PVG beginning March or April 2008.

More details available at http://en.carnoc.com/list/5/5175.html

Cheers.
 
Fyano773
Posts: 536
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:11 am



Quote:

Mexican airline eyes China in time for Olympics
Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:38pm EST

MEXICO CITY, Nov 23 (Reuters) - Aeromexico, the country's top airline which was recently privatized, will begin flying to China in March of next year, a few months before the Olympics kick off.

The Mexican government sold Aeromexico (AMEXICOA.MX: Quote, Profile, Research) to U.S. bank Citigroup (C.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and its Mexican partners in October after a heated bidding war for the debt-ridden carrier.

The flight from Mexico City to Shanghai will connect through the Mexican border city of Tijuana, the company said in an event late on Thursday.

Beijing-headquartered Olympics will take place in August of next year but other cities, including Shanghai, will host several competitions and matches.

This will be Aeromexico's second new route to Asia this year after launching its Tokyo flight a few months ago with a cost of $1,000 per round trip.

Aeromexico's new owners plan to invest $240 million to improve operations and create new routes. The company is part of the SkyTeam alliance which comprises 10 airline members around the world.


Now that AM has expanded service, international network is a bit more respectable:

  • Asia - NRT, PVG.
  • Europe - MAD, BCN, CDG, FCO.
  • South-America - GRU, EZE, SCL, LIM.
  • Central-America - SAP, MGA.
  • US - 13 destinations.

    Other possible routes we talked about:

  • MEX-GIG.
  • MEX-YYZ.

    AM has to place orders for additional planes to start more routes like these and increase frequencies to the current ones!

    Fyano
  •  
    juventus
    Posts: 2017
    Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:52 am

    Excellent news and good luck to Aeromexico. I suppose with this new China service, GRU will be downgraded to a 767 route, correct??? As far as Rome, I take it the stop in Monterrey is due to range issues for the 767 out of MEX??

    Quoting AM744 (Reply 2):
    . All that's missing is London

    Yes sir, or maybe FRA, but LHR/LGW should be launched....
     
    Mexicana757
    Posts: 2635
    Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2001 3:21 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:52 am

    Great to see AM expanding their route network. What I find interesting is AM chose PVG over PEK.

    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 6):
    AM has to place orders for additional planes to start more routes like these and increase frequencies to the current ones!

     checkmark  . Would be nice if they did place more 787 and 777 orders in the future.
     
    SKY1
    Posts: 611
    Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:03 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:57 am



    Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
    So good to see AM back in FCO

    Better is to see AM serving PVG or any Asian point, don't ya think Ricardo?  Wink

    And talking about Asia and AM ...are they thinking in ICN as it's a Korean Air/SkyTeam hub? Does AM go on with the code-share agreement in some KE's South Korea-USA flights?
    Time flies! Enjoy life!
     
    juventus
    Posts: 2017
    Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:55 am



    Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
    What I find interesting is AM chose PVG over PEK.

    Same here, I was going to ask about that. Why PVG, and not PEK??? What's important is that they are launching China...
     
    Fyano773
    Posts: 536
    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:51 am



    Quoting Juventus (Reply 10):
    Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 8):
    What I find interesting is AM chose PVG over PEK.

    Same here, I was going to ask about that. Why PVG, and not PEK???

    US (PHL-PVG) and DL (ATL-PVG) have also applied to PVG:
    Delta To Apply For ATL-PVG Instead Of PEK In 2008 (by Panamair Jan 19 2007 in Civil Aviation) US Air Stresses Commitment To China Flight (by LAXintl Nov 20 2007 in Civil Aviation)

    I think the launch of the MEX-TIJ-PVG is commercially driven, perhaps because PVG is the economic center in China vs PEK, being the political city. Something like Gotenburg vs Stockholm in Sweeden, respectively.

    Fyano
     
    ghost77
    Posts: 4461
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:09 am



    Quoting AM744 (Reply 2):
    All that's missing is London!

    But with AM on private hands and a dramatic local scenery, sure its just a matter of when.... also now that BA has shown intentions to increase its flight to 7X to MEX. AM should ASAP get an extra Boeing 767-300ER to start a MEX-LON.

    Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
    This is indeed good news. I am glad to see AM expand into Asia. That will be one of the most exotic aircraft in PVG I think as there are no South American airlines currently flying to PVG or China in general.

    Mexico is in one of the best Geographic positions. It was a matter of time to see TIJ starting to serve as an Asian hub, just like CUN is doing with all European service. I don't know how fare we are from a CUN-JNB.

    Sure it's going to an exotic visitor, don't know what happened to LA's plans to Asia via LAX, but they were considering sending MY Boeing 767-300ERF's via TIJ. LA should give away its 4th Boeing 777F to MY in order to start TIJ-Asia.
    If i had the money i would tomorrow bring a Boeing 747F and would start flying it TIJ-Asia.

    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 6):
    AM has to place orders for additional planes to start more routes like these and increase frequencies to the current ones!

    Totally... I think AM needs to go up to 14X to MAD from MEX and leave 2X from MTY to MAD. Boost CDG to 10X with the B777, keep GRU with 7X and switch SCL and EZE to an all Boeing 767-300ER operation.

    This would free B767-200ERs and it could be possible to do more runs to BCN to 4X instead of only 2X. It would also be great to see FCO with 4X or even 5X and placing an AZ codeshare.

    Fyano773, what other routes do you suggest for long haul service? LON/FRA/GIG is certainly a possibility, but what else could be seen?

    Time to start thinking in some B777-300ER's for NRT/PVG/MAD/CDG/GRU.

    CUN would be another important airport for long haul service to Europe. At least Aladia is aiming for this market in 2008 once they get their first Boeing 767!!!

    Quoting SKY1 (Reply 9):
    Better is to see AM serving PVG or any Asian point, don't ya think Ricardo? Wink

    No lo so, ma penso è molto buono che AM torne in Italia a Roma nella primavera di 2008!!!  Big grin  bigthumbsup 


    g77
    Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
     
    nycfly75
    Posts: 643
    Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:38 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:04 pm

    Here are the slot allocations for FCO: UTC TIME:


    FCO S08 AM 035 A 19:00 19:00 03APR 25OCT 0004060 767 181 1 J MEX MTY
    FCO S08 AM 036 D 22:05 22:05 03APR 25OCT 0004060 767 181 1 J MEX MTY
     
    bsbisland
    Posts: 315
    Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:18 pm

    Good to see AM adding new destinations, but 2 weekly seems too few frequencies for what we see nowadays in a profitable operation. Wouldn't it be better to use those aircraft and upgrade frequencies to NRT and BCN or maybe MTY-MAD and make a more solid operation in those routes?
     
    juventus
    Posts: 2017
    Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:30 am



    Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 14):
    Good to see AM adding new destinations, but 2 weekly seems too few frequencies for what we see nowadays in a profitable operation. Wouldn't it be better to use those aircraft and upgrade frequencies to NRT and BCN or maybe MTY-MAD and make a more solid operation in those routes?

    2 weekly frequencies are too few, but I'm sure they'll be increase to 3 or 4 once word gets around, plus AM suffers from a lack of widebody jets. There aren't enough to go around. My guess, in less than a year NRT, FCO and PVG are served at least three times a week.
     
    SJOtoLIR
    Posts: 2411
    Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:41 am



    Quoting AM744 (Reply 2):
    All that's missing is London!



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
    But with AM on private hands and a dramatic local scenery, sure its just a matter of when.... also now that BA has shown intentions to increase its flight to 7X to MEX. AM should ASAP get an extra Boeing 767-300ER to start a MEX-LON.

    BA is already operating MEX-LHR 3x weekly with 744. I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.
    On the other hand, it also should be taken into account that AF is currently participating for the segment CDG-LHR based on code-share cooperation with AM.
    By the way, both CDG and FCO are bases of Sky Team. It makes sense of logic that AM flies there in order to enable flights on behalf of AM and given by other full members of such air alliance.

    Regards.
    "Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
     
    Philly65
    Posts: 53
    Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:15 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:45 am

    What ever happened to AMs proposed MEX-PHL service? I believe it was scheduled to start in the fall of '07 (from what I remember). Anyone have any insight?
     
    ghost77
    Posts: 4461
    Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 2:07 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:37 am



    Quoting XA744 (Reply 1):
    Agree, this kind of news very well deserved to start a new thread !!!

    Thanks for the update Ghost.

    Hi XA744! Your welcome, how you been? How's your Japanesse doing?

    Another airliners.net forum member has told me that word spread on the other side of the world is that AM will fly:

    MEX-TIJ-NRT-PVG-NRT-TIJ-MEX

    And by the end of 2008 AM wiill increase NRT to 3X

    It makes a lot of sense considering the lack and fleet shortage of B777s.

    Link: http://www.travelvision.jp/modules/n...s1/article.php?storyid=32740&cid=2

    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
    BA is already operating MEX-LHR 3x weekly with 744. I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.

    Nope, BA is flying 4X, in 2005 and 2006 during the winter they increased to 5X but now they said they're going 7X.

    g77
    Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
     
    AM744
    Posts: 1435
    Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:49 am



    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
    BA is already operating MEX-LHR 3x weekly with 744. I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.

    Well, there's room to Madrid and Paris. London wouldn't have any problem to support a double daily 777 (AM and BA).
     
    juventus
    Posts: 2017
    Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:56 am



    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
    BA is already operating MEX-LHR 3x weekly with 744. I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.

    British Airways has a good thing going on the Mexican routes with AA. If you fly to MEX, they'll fly you direct, anywhere else in Mexico, AA will glady take you there via MIA or DFW. However, sooner or later Aeromexico has to land in London, no way around that, london its the new financial capital of the world, it must be launched. But its not an easy proposition, there's BA's alliance with AA that probably covers all of Mexico; As far as Cancun, you got all the European charters on that route, so AM flying CUN-LHR/LGW might not go too well, that leaves MEX. I think there is room

    Quoting Philly65 (Reply 17):
    What ever happened to AMs proposed MEX-PHL service?

    AM and MX have a bunch of routes on the "maybe later list", PHL is one of them.
     
    MAH4546
    Posts: 24558
    Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:57 am



    Quoting Juventus (Reply 20):
    AM and MX have a bunch of routes on the "maybe later list", PHL is one of them.

    PHL was actually bookable for a short time, as were DTW and YYZ.

    I personally wouldn't hold my breathe for PHL considering how poorly routes like Austin, Fort Lauderdale, and Boston have fared (and early results for Seattle aren't that great). AeroMexico has had difficultly expanding past traditional markets in the U.S., unlike Mexicana.
    a.
     
    MaverickM11
    Posts: 15265
    Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:32 am



    Quoting Ghost77 (Thread starter):
    MEX-MTY-FCO-MTY-MEX and MEX-TIJ-PVG-TIJ-MEX.

    Most probably FCO will be done 2X with Boeing 767-200ER and PVG will get 2X with Boeing 777-200ER.

    That sounds terrible, between the frequency and the intermediate stop in the case of FCO. I don't see either of those lasting long unless the frequency is at least doubled and/or the MTY stop is removed.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    XA744
    Posts: 630
    Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:40 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:04 am



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 18):
    Another airliners.net forum member has told me that word spread on the other side of the world is that AM will fly:

    MEX-TIJ-NRT-PVG-NRT-TIJ-MEX

    Thanks for the link Ghost.

    Well, the Japanese magazine " TravelVision " reports on the gala cocktail offered by Aeromexico to the travel trade in Tokyo, this past November 21, on occasion of the celebration of the first anniversary of the company´s MEX-TIJ-NRT service.

    It is also mentioned that Aeromexico´s Vice-president for the Asian Region, Jeffrey Stan, informed that AM has achieved an 84% PLF on the Japan-Mexico flight, during its first year of operation. It was also disclosed by Mr. Stan, at the above mentioned event, that AM will begin operations to Shanghai, China in April 2008. Here is where I get a little bit hazy, because the magazine mentions that the flight will have a travellers market segmentation of 40% Japanese; 40% Chinese ; and 20% of other Asian nationalities, but provides no specific details about the future operation.

    The article is kind of confusing, because it doesn´t clearly state that Aeromexico will extend the Narita flight into Shanghai. However, judging from what it is mentioned in the same article, we can assume that this will be the case. I could be wrong though.

    To me, as you have mentioned it Ghost, it would make a lot of sense to have the Narita service extended to PVG, due to the lack of sufficient widebodies in AM´s fleet at this time. Only problem is that, from one day to the other, Aeromexico would be cutting capacity to Japan into half, as current seat and cargo hold inventories would need to be shared with the Chinese market. If this is going to be the case, I just hope it will be a very temporary solution to the problem, as I would like to see AM operating dedicated services to each of the stations in question. The company needs to announce urgently the acquisition of more T7s !!!

    To me, Seoul would need to be announced pretty soon, as well. AM has to take full advantage of Sky Team partner, Korean Air´s, extensive Asian network ex ICN.

    Well, lets just sit back, relax and wait a little bit to see what really happens !!!

    Again, very interesting and challenging skies ahead for Aeromexico !!!

    Best regards
    No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
     
    EddieDude
    Posts: 6215
    Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 2:48 pm



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
    don't know how fare we are from a CUN-JNB

    Hahahaha, very ambitious... How about MEX-ACA-SYD instead? That would be very, very nice too.
    Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
     
    juventus
    Posts: 2017
    Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:12 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:52 pm



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 18):
    Another airliners.net forum member has told me that word spread on the other side of the world is that AM will fly:

    MEX-TIJ-NRT-PVG-NRT-TIJ-MEX

    And by the end of 2008 AM wiill increase NRT to 3X

    If NRT is going to be extended to include PVG, then this route should most definetly be extended to 3, peferibly 4 times a week.

    Quoting XA744 (Reply 23):
    Again, very interesting and challenging skies ahead for Aeromexico !!!

    Its a good challenge, it should make AM more of a global player (provided they do things right)
     
    MaverickM11
    Posts: 15265
    Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:16 pm



    Quoting Juventus (Reply 25):
    If NRT is going to be extended to include PVG, then this route should most definetly be extended to 3, peferibly 4 times a week.

    Wouldn't they need to renegotiate the Japan/Mexico bilateral? Regardless MEX/NRT needs to be daily if it's to compete with other one stop options.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    ucunnn2
    Posts: 63
    Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:21 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:32 pm

    Did u guys checked MX's myspace?

    I didnt know they had one

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ser.viewprofile&friendid=277268762

    i found out other airlines have myspace too, AM has one, They ar eon MX friends. Lol
     
    wingedarrow
    Posts: 157
    Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 9:11 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:35 pm

    No vemos la hora que Aeromexico vuelve en Fiumicino - BENTORNATA AEROMEXICOOOOOO!!!  wave 
    אליטליה
     
    jfk777
    Posts: 5841
    Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:56 pm

    Isn't flying beyond NRT a problem for any Americas airline except UA and NW. AM should fly nonstop to PVG from TIJ with a 777 or wait for teh 787.
     
    JRDC930
    Posts: 882
    Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:44 am

    Hooray! for AM my second favorite Mexican Airline after JR of course     , Finally Mexico has an airline that is expanding outside of the America's at a decent pace. I really hope AM does well on these routes. Not to be a basher, but it looks like MX has droped the ball, on this, what with the fact that they cant even decide on a longhaul product at this rate when they finally do go to Asia around 2300 AD, they might find it it hard to compete.   Seriously though MX better get on the ball if they still have any plans to fly out side of the America's.

    [Edited 2007-11-25 18:57:59]
    U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
     
    SJOtoLIR
    Posts: 2411
    Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:19 am



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 18):
    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
    BA is already operating MEX-LHR 3x weekly with 744. I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.

    Nope, BA is flying 4X,

    I did a research and found BA LHR-MEX-LHR is 3x weekly nowadays.

    BA 243......LHR 12:40.....MEX 18:20.......744......Mo, We, Fr
    BA 242......MEX 20:40.....LHR 13:00+ 1...744......Departs from MEX: Mo, We, Fr

    Sources: British Airways' website and amadeus.net




    .

    Quoting AM744 (Reply 19):
    Well, there's room to Madrid and Paris. London wouldn't have any problem to support a double daily 777 (AM and BA).

    Analysis:
    a. A double daily MEX-LON implies more than four times the current capacity.
    b. Both LHR and LGW are not bases for Sky Team.
    c. AM MEX-CDG fits perfectly to AF CDG-LHR based on daily code-share cooperation.
    d. BA is able to diversify passengers once in LHR. On the opposite, all the passengers arriving on AM will stop there.
    e. Both AM and IB are sustaining flights to MEX-MAD. However, the origin-destination traffic between [MEX-MAD 23x weekly, including AM MEX-MTY-MAD] cannot be compared with [MEX - LHR 3x weekly] at this time.

    Regards.  Smile
    "Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
     
    adriaticus
    Posts: 989
    Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:29 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:27 am



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
    Totally... I think AM needs to go up to 14X to MAD from MEX and leave 2X from MTY to MAD. Boost CDG to 10X with the B777, keep GRU with 7X and switch SCL and EZE to an all Boeing 767-300ER operation

    I say MEXMAD should be 10x, MEXCDG should be 7x (considering codesharing with AF on flights 435 (daily) and 439 (3x/week) effectively raises the offering to 17x). SCL should be upgraded to 4x T7 (only way to compete with LA's superb daily Premium Business product), and EZE should either be upgraded to 4x on B762/3ER, or better, if possible, a 3x T7.

    Quoting XA744 (Reply 23):
    The company needs to announce urgently the acquisition of more T7s !!!

    There is talk about that (AM probably getting one, or perhaps even five T7s) on a separate thread... Unidentified 777-200ERs : Who? (by PM Nov 17 2007 in Civil Aviation)

    It would seem about right to get this amount of long-range widebodies if all the foregoing mentioned in this thread had a few truths about it. It could perhaps be a good time to consider B772LRs and additional B738s in preparation for having a true general upgrade well before the 788s get here...

    __Ad.
    A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
     
    AM744
    Posts: 1435
    Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:49 pm



    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 31):
    Analysis:
    a. A double daily MEX-LON implies more than four times the current capacity.
    b. Both LHR and LGW are not bases for Sky Team.
    c. AM MEX-CDG fits perfectly to AF CDG-LHR based on daily code-share cooperation.
    d. BA is able to diversify passengers once in LHR. On the opposite, all the passengers arriving on AM will stop there.
    e. Both AM and IB are sustaining flights to MEX-MAD. However, the origin-destination traffic between [MEX-MAD 23x weekly, including AM MEX-MTY-MAD] cannot be compared with [MEX - LHR 3x weekly] at this time.

    You are right, maybe a 3x with 767s could be supported. Increased business, tourism and taking a chunk from U.S. airlines could help supporting an AM London flight. There is also a sizeable community of Mexican students in the UK.
     
    Fyano773
    Posts: 536
    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
    Fyano773, what other routes do you suggest for long haul service? LON/FRA/GIG is certainly a possibility, but what else could be seen?

    I really don't know, but I can think of ICN, AMS and SVO, all of them with Skyteam partnership; the route between Russia and Mexico was flown by SU some years ago, so this market is pending to be served again. Personally, I believe LHR will come first but perhaps AM hasn't started service today because leasing and/or purchasing the landing slots are very high, even more than NRT and AM is waiting some kind of concession once Skyteam partners are relocated to T4 after the aperture of T5. In fact, my brother who lives in London told me that his English colleagues who have visited Japan have the perception that London is a bit more costly than Tokyo.

    Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
    I am questioning if there are enough space for two carriers operating MEX-LON, adding BA is planning to fly daily its named route.

    I think so, I don't have the numbers but at least AM has signed some agreements to operate at LHR. See: AeroMexico To Start MEX-LHR By Mid-2008? (by Fyano773 Sep 4 2006 in Civil Aviation) so, demand is out there.

    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
    That sounds terrible, between the frequency and the intermediate stop in the case of FCO. I don't see either of those lasting long unless the frequency is at least doubled and/or the MTY stop is removed.

    The same was said when MEX-TIJ-NRT was launched.

    Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 32):
    MEXCDG should be 7x (considering codesharing with AF on flights 435 (daily) and 439 (3x/week) effectively raises the offering to 17x).

    As far as I know, AF434/435 (5X weekly) are not code-shared with AM; only AF438/439 (daily) are.

    Fyano
     
    IAD380
    Posts: 461
    Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:32 pm



    Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 12):
    what other routes do you suggest for long haul service?

    In Asia - ICN and HKG

    In Europe - LHR, FRA. Later on, AM could add AMS and/or ZRH. Eventually, AM could extend its flights to BCN or FCO to Middle Eastern destinations, most notably CAI, TLV, and/or DXB.

    In South America - GIG, maybe BOG

    In Canada - YYZ, YUL, YYZ
     
    AM744
    Posts: 1435
    Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:35 pm



    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
    That sounds terrible, between the frequency and the intermediate stop in the case of FCO. I don't see either of those lasting long unless the frequency is at least doubled and/or the MTY stop is removed.

    Don't think so. Actually MTY could generate some revenue.
     
    Fyano773
    Posts: 536
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:53 am



    Quoting XA744 (Reply 23):
    To me, as you have mentioned it Ghost, it would make a lot of sense to have the Narita service extended to PVG, due to the lack of sufficient widebodies in AM´s fleet at this time. Only problem is that, from one day to the other, Aeromexico would be cutting capacity to Japan into half, as current seat and cargo hold inventories would need to be shared with the Chinese market.

    The extension to PVG makes sense because the T7 arrives to NRT at 07:00 hours and departs at 15:00 hours, i. e. 8 hours of turnaround (idle) time that seems enough for a quick hop to PVG, but I agree with you, a dedicated flight will be more convenient.

    Fyano
     
    fly727
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:40 pm



    Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
    That will be one of the most exotic aircraft in PVG I think as there are no South American airlines currently flying to PVG or China in general.

    Correction for perfection... Mexico is in North America.  Wink

    RM  Smile
    There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
     
    jfk777
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:07 pm

    People seem to be enamored of the possibility of AM flying to London. AM should serve Madrid and Paris well before flying to a place few Latin Americans fly to. Mexico does have decent commerce with the UK but it does too with Germany, so FRA may better for AM to take a crack at. BA flies to only three main land Latin American cities so that should say something about how the spanish speaking Americas tarvel to the UK.
     
    IAD380
    Posts: 461
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:07 pm

    Can the 777s in Aeromexico's fleet fly nonstop between MEX and PVG and NRT? I can't image that there is much demand for flights to the Far East from TIJ. Do the bilateral treaties require a stopover?
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:11 pm



    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 34):
    The same was said when MEX-TIJ-NRT was launched.

    That's out of necessity; there's a reason it can't go nonstop.

    Quoting AM744 (Reply 36):
    Actually MTY could generate some revenue.

    I think it'll detract more than it will add to MEX/FCO
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    mtyfreak
    Posts: 335
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:22 pm



    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
    there's a reason it can't go nonstop.

    which if I'm not mystaken are:

    A - 762 unable to make the MEX-FCO run without being weight restricted due to MEX altitud (7,316 ft)

    B - Posible problem with gates not being available at the international terminal in MEX ???


    Could this last point be posible or should we rule it out??


    saludos.
    Only here for the beer...
     
    AM744
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:18 pm



    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):
    I think it'll detract more than it will add to MEX/FCO

    You're probably right. The point is that it's the only way to get the job done now. They have to work with what they got.
     
    Fyano773
    Posts: 536
    Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:03 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:44 pm



    Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 39):
    AM should serve Madrid and Paris well before flying to a place few Latin Americans fly to. Mexico does have decent commerce with the UK but it does too with Germany, so FRA may better for AM to take a crack at. BA flies to only three main land Latin American cities so that should say something about how the spanish speaking Americas tarvel to the UK.

    AM already serves well MAD and CDG. The fact that BA has few routes to Latin-America is due to commercial strategy and business plan based on yields-available fleet, but traffic is out there; that's why, in a recent interview, BA's commercial director told BA will add frequencies to MEX up to 7X, so that and the MoU signed by Skyteam partners with BAA (confirming their co-location at LHR) should say something about increasing traffic between Mexico and UK.

    Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41):


    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 34):
    The same was said when MEX-TIJ-NRT was launched.

    That's out of necessity; there's a reason it can't go nonstop.

    Quoting AM744 (Reply 36):
    Actually MTY could generate some revenue.

    I think it'll detract more than it will add to MEX/FCO

    It's the same reason as MTYFREAK said; the 767 departing from MEX to FCO nonstop would have been penalized in payload and pax, so AM decided to launch this service via MTY. Now MTY (AeroMexico Connect hub) and Northern Mexico will have 2 direct gateways to Europe: MAD and FCO.

    Fyano
     
    MaverickM11
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:04 pm



    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 44):
    the 767 departing from MEX to FCO nonstop would have been penalized in payload and pax,

    That makes sense, although it would probably be a good nonstop 777 route if they had the equipment.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    AR385
    Posts: 6742
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:44 pm

    Now that AM is finally expanding internationally agressively, it needs a desperate revamp of its high end product. Clase Premier is nowhere near competitive with the equivalent product of its competitors. Especially on the 767's. They may have flat beds on the 777's but there's more to high yield product than just flat beds. I hope someone at AM is thinking about this. Otherwise, passengers may simply forgo AM because the other airline on the same route has a better business class product. Think JAL's business class, as an example.
     
    luisde8cd
    Posts: 2444
    Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:15 am

    MEX-TIJ-ICN-TIJ-MEX would make sense. You got Samsung factories in TIJ and LG plants in Reynosa which can provide lucrative C class traffic. Let pax bound to other Asian destinations connect in ICN.

    Saludos desde Monterrey,
    Luis
     
    centrair
    Posts: 2845
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:17 am



    Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 29):
    Isn't flying beyond NRT a problem for any Americas airline except UA and NW. AM should fly nonstop to PVG from TIJ with a 777 or wait for teh 787.

    Well, thing is that AM is not a US carrier. US-Japan bilateral is pretty restrictive for UA and NW. I don't know about the Mexican-Japan Bilateral or the Canadian-Japan Bilateral. But I am pretty sure that each country enters into agreements on their own.

    Before AM started NRT, I believe their was a change in the Mexico-Japan bilateral. There were lots of negotiations here.
    These help land NRT slots. The Japanese government has been pushing airlines to use KIX and NGO, but the Mexican government was able to push NAA and the Ministry of Land & Transport to give them NRT slots. You can bet that EK was annoyed by this.

    If anyone has info on the Mexico-Japan bilateral, it would defiantly help.

    The question is would AM's 777 fleet be utilized best on non-stops or direct?
    Would it be more profitable to go China-Japan-Mexico?
    Would this make it easier for Latin American and Chinese business leaders to connect? (versus using the USA)
    Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
     
    SJOtoLIR
    Posts: 2411
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    RE: AeroMexico To FCO And PVG In 2008!

    Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:10 am



    Quoting IAD380 (Reply 35):
    In Europe - LHR, FRA

    The situation for FRA on AM makes a resemblance with LHR.
    AM is currently getting code-share cooperation with AF CDG-FRA as well, that fits with AM MEX-CDG.




    .

    Quoting Fyano773 (Reply 37):
    The extension to PVG makes sense because the T7 arrives to NRT at 07:00 hours and departs at 15:00 hours, i. e. 8 hours of turnaround (idle) time that seems enough for a quick hop to PVG

    In other thread dedicated to AM, there were established good loads for AM MEX-TIJ-NRT, taking into account some respectable level of traffic between TIJ and Asia.
    With that being said, the possible opening of AM MEX-TIJ-NRT-PVG will undoubtedly hurt these loads, unless frequencies will be increase up, as they would seemingly do.

    Regards.
    "Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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