AR385
Topic Author
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Mexico-Africa

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:02 pm

With the coming explosion of American services into Africa, Delta, for example. I am wondering. Should Mexico capitalize on this, not on connecting passengers to Delta Worldports, but I mean a direct nonstop flight to Africa from Mexico. There is an important African diaspora in Mexico. There is also high end tourism (think safaris) But, unfortunately I don't have the hard numbers. Is there good O&A? for example. Is there actual demand?
 
AR385
Topic Author
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:01 am

Possible routes MEX-Lagos
MEX-Morocco
MEX-Kenya
MEX- Luanda


Any more on African routes? fell free to suggest

[Edited 2007-11-23 17:07:37]
 
md90fan
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:22 am

LOL

Not gonna happen for the foreseeable future, unless SAA decides to extend it's GRU route to MEX or something.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:11 am

I don't think so. Its not going to happen. The only Latin country with enough Afircan ties to sustain a flight is Brazil, and TAM and Varig don't even fly there. There is talk of SAA starting EZE flights, the main reason is probably because of the same latitude, and connect the pax-traffic through Latin America. Hell you might see TLV before any African country.
 
pezetaroi
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:14 am

Don't you have anything else better to do? Mexico-Africa??¿¿?? absurd...
 
KLM685
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:50 am



Quoting AR385 (Reply 1):
Possible routes MEX-Lagos
MEX-Morocco
MEX-Kenya
MEX- Luanda

hmmm not really

MEX-Lagos - we don't have that oil bond THAT strong to even deserve a seasonal flight. Not to say about tourism which must be almost non-existent.

MEX-Morocco - Mainly 10 to 30% of tourists going to Europe take a tour extension to Morocco so that would definately be a no no. Or maybe a charter every now and then. Seasonal but that would be something out of some really excited people.

MEX-Kenya - hmmmm Although African Safari's must be a MUST experience in our lives. Only seasonal . Not too much promotion or people interested so it would be a no as well.

MEX-Luanda - Luanda-GRU works because both are ex-portugues colonies. So no relationship with Mexico except less than a 100 curious tourists a year.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Hell you might see TLV before any African country.

Yup, I totally agree with you.


Maybe just one day SAA could start a seasonal frequency but market bonds are not that strong. Possibly and surely for the World Cup but not after that.

MEX-CAI Another possibility but stil very touristic.

Sincerely I don't see any serious African destination - MEX route by any airline in the next 10-15 years. Our country, tourists and businessmen are not ready to look at Africa with potential. Mainly because all the attention is being thrown at Asia.

Cheers!
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
AR385
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:58 am

Ok, well, maybe it as a stupid idea. Thankyou for those who posted nicely, anyhow.
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:33 am

Only potential destination and sure consider AM landing there for WC2010 charters is JNB.

It could be possible a 1X MEX-CUN-JNB with B777 (its a long one, 7263NM) but it would be great to sign codeshares with SAA and at least one more to make it work. We really know a penny about Africa, at least, heard its cheap the region, nor the flights, but JNB could be an option by 2012.

Also a JNB-Mexico could work for those in South Africa going to the USA/Canada/Central America. SAA only lands in JFK and IAH and they used to land in ATL. Did SAA had a codeshare with DL?

But TLV as well as SVO could come first. Not long ago and for YEARS, Aeroflot landed in Mexico.

g77
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Petrovsky19
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:05 am

Don't think AM would start a direct route to Africa anytime soon; most likely a Skyteam codeshare via Atlanta with Delta that's pretty much it.  Confused Although I would love to see a Mexico-Africa route! pretty exotic

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

An African community in Mexico as big as it is IMO I don't believe it can support a direct flight to/from any country in Africa
 
ptugarin
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:14 am

If we consider Canary Islands to be part of Africa (which they technically are), would there be a chance of connecting Mexico with one of the islands? I understand, that there are more cultural/historical ties between Venezuela/Cuba/Argentina and Canary Islands, but not so sure about Mexico.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

= What?! Where?! I dont think I have ever seen an African in DF or Mexico at large.

Cheers,
A.

PS: How about AM's 787 service on MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM?

PS: When I saw your posts and suggested routings, I thought of that Mexican slang ... N.M.G  Smile.

[Edited 2007-11-23 23:32:33]
Live, and let live.
 
N405MX
Posts: 1156
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:43 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
= What?! Where?! I dont think I have ever seen an African in DF or Mexico at large

Unfortunately I have to agree, the bigest "crowd" I saw was because of the Forum here in MTY, and it was only 10 africans arriving for only 5 days.

Saludos
Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
 
kissK
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:24 pm

EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:28 pm



Quoting KissK (Reply 12):
EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon

= Are you referring to the rumors of the CMN flight being extended to MEX?

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:20 pm

Well if a Mexican airline (MX?) has its aircraft on GRU tarmac for lets say at least 18 hours, someone at that Mexican airlines headquarter could throw the numbers for a JNB tag-on, specially if allowed by the Southafrican authorities.
I'm quite aware that the O/D traffic between México and South Africa is very little, but man, the Brazil - South Africa O/D is huge, something a Northamerican airline with planes spending a day in GRU or GIG could at least consider to capitalize. And I would love to see CO flying IAH-GRU-CPT and IAH-GIG-JNB..
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
ghost77
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:42 am



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

VERY TRUE, SUPERB COMMENT 2travel2know!! GRU-JNB is just 4024NM away or another option could be MEX-GIG-JNB-GIG-MEX and it would be even closer, its only 3868NM and it would be another destination for AM, any Brazilin friend can shed us some light if ANAC and Brazil's government would grant 5th freedom rights to Aeromexico?? A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG with B767-200ER could probably work and even more if 5th freedom rights granted.

g77
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bambicruz
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:45 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 13):

= Are you referring to the rumors of the CMN flight being extended to MEX?

huh? thats news to me, I havent heard anything about that. what makes you think its in the works?
F*** Me Im Famous!
 
civilav
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:10 am



Quoting AR385 (Reply 6):
Ok, well, maybe it as a stupid idea

It is far from stupid.
Here in Cancun alone we have, according to Migracion statistics, over 70 South Africans, 60 Nigerians, 40 Senegalese, 30 Kenyans (mostly as gym instructors) and a mix of Algerians and Tunisians as permanent residents.

My travel agency alone handles (and I am minute compared to the size of Cancun) roughly like 40 tickets per annum to Cape Town and Jo'burg which go through Amsterdam as it is the least expensive route (Martinair for the Cancun-Amsterdam leg and KLM on to South Africa). I am referring to tickets sold to South Africans and their relatives (many are married to locals and have kids born in Mexico).

At the moment, though, Mexico is a tough country to visit by South Africans and Africans in general as there is a lot of paperwork to get the tourist visa and this hinders tourism. Cancun could be a very significant destination for wealthy South Africans (who need visas to go just about everywhere... except Argentina !) and there could be a lot of traffic were it not for the bureaucracy and lack of more direct links. The twice weekly CPT-EZE flight by Malaysian 747-400 is nearly always full with traffic both ways but mostly South Africans enjoying the European style and nightlife of Buenos Aires without bothersome transit or tourist Shenghen visas.

Perhaps one day...
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
Hell you might see TLV before any African country.

And before that happens most likely we'll see DXB, given the pretty large Arab/Lebanese population in Mexico

The reason that I say it is very unlikely is that, out of all the continents ( aside from antartica  ), I'd say Africa is the one Mexico has the least ties to.

[Edited 2007-11-24 20:34:39]
 
phatfarmlines
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:42 am



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
There is an important African diaspora in Mexico.

Do you have literature on this? I'd have to agree Brazil is the closest LatAm country with the most immediate African ties.
 
md90fan
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:52 am



Quoting Phatfarmlines (Reply 19):
I'd have to agree Brazil is the closest LatAm country with the most immediate African ties.

It's a no brainer really, Brazil has the world's 2nd largest Black population, and has lusophone ties with many African nation. Something like 90,000,000 Brazilians identify themselves as African descendants.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
KLM685
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:38 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
PS: How about AM's 787 service on MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM?

PS: When I saw your posts and suggested routings, I thought of that Mexican slang ... N.M.G .

1st PS I would doubt about the viability of the MEX-GRU + the JNB tag. How many people would actually fly AM to JNB? If there's no 5th freedom rights it would be a suicide as more thant he half of the plane would have to stay on the plane on the continuing flight plus how many hours would that trip take?!

MEX-GRU-JNB-BOM... who would stay on the plane for THAT MUCH!

Quoting KissK (Reply 12):
EK might connect MEX wiz africa very sooooooon

Emirates will surely take good care of that.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
It's a no brainer really, Brazil has the world's 2nd largest Black population, and has lusophone ties with many African nation. Something like 90,000,000 Brazilians identify themselves as African descendants.

That's right! Mexico-Africa bond comercially and turistically is not enough and will grow in a very very slow way. Asia is a priority as a market and is the market that will develop first. Then most probably Africa. But not in the short haul.
KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:18 am



Quoting Civilav (Reply 17):
It is far from stupid.
Here in Cancun alone we have, according to Migracion statistics, over 70 South Africans, 60 Nigerians, 40 Senegalese, 30 Kenyans (mostly as gym instructors) and a mix of Algerians and Tunisians as permanent residents.

= You really think those kind of numbers justify a flight? I personally think it would never work ... especially given thats it relatively easy to get to Africa via Europe.

Quoting Bambicruz (Reply 16):
huh? thats news to me, I havent heard anything about that. what makes you think its in the works?

= A long time back I attended a presentation of EK's and one of its potential destination was MEX - served either via MAD or CMN. Again, this was a while back.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 15):
VERY TRUE, SUPERB COMMENT 2travel2know!! GRU-JNB is just 4024NM away or another option could be MEX-GIG-JNB-GIG-MEX and it would be even closer, its only 3868NM and it would be another destination for AM, any Brazilin friend can shed us some light if ANAC and Brazil's government would grant 5th freedom rights to Aeromexico?? A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG with B767-200ER could probably work and even more if 5th freedom rights granted.

= A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG would bleed money for AM especially given all the other places the aircraft could be deployed.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:05 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 22):
= A 1X to JNB from GRU or GIG would bleed money for AM especially given all the other places the aircraft could be deployed.

Yes, GRU or GIG tarmac for 18 hours. If AM was to get 5th rights for GRU or GIG <> JNB at least thrice weekly, IMHO it wouldn't bleed AM money, however a once per week will, just imagine a Mexican AM crew spending a whole week in South Africa, AM flying GRU-JNB with 3 crews, plus almost everybody would agree that once per week flights are good for leisure travelers, not business people..
And bear in mind that there's no SkyTeam Southern Hemisphere Transatlantic option rightnow, CO, DL and CM could somewhat take advantage of a dream AM GRU-JNB, if not with codeshare, at least with good interline fares.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:02 pm



Quoting Pezetaroi (Reply 4):
Don't you have anything else better to do? Mexico-Africa??¿¿?? absurd...

..why is it "absurd"?
"Up the Irons!"
 
civilav
Posts: 293
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:16 pm

quote=Abrelosojos,reply=22]You really think those kind of numbers justify a flight? I personally think it would never work ... especially given thats it relatively easy to get to Africa via Europe.[/quote]

Abrelosojos: you need to read my reply more carefully please. I end it by stating "perhaps one day..."

Nothing is impossible and just as Malaysian has a regular twice-weekly 747-400 (no less !) Cape-Buenos Aires flight and it manages to fly it profitably.. why is it not feasible to think that, if conditions are right (particularly as regards Mexico's tough visa and entry requirements for all Africans) directs flights to Mexico cannot be a possibility from that continent ?

Getting to Africa from Mexico via Europe is certainly no big deal but it is not the same the other way round and I repeat there are very wealth South Africans who would love to come to Cancun.

That is all.
 
bsbisland
Posts: 315
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:58 pm



Quoting MD90fan (Reply 20):
It's a no brainer really, Brazil has the world's 2nd largest Black population


Most of this black population is descendent fom African slaves that came to Brazil centuries ago, so I don't think there are any relations between the black Brazilians and Africa, and the same could be said about any other country in the Americas with black population. Most of the black population have no clue about which region in Africa their descendents came from.

The Brazil-Africa flights exist because countries like Angola and Cape Verde ae ex-Portuguese colonies, and in the last decades it's been growing the relations between those countries and Brazil.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:04 pm



Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 26):
The Brazil-Africa flights exist because countries like Angola and Cape Verde ae ex-Portuguese colonies, and in the last decades it's been growing the relations between those countries and Brazil.

Brazil-South Africa flights don't fall in that category, even if LAD/MPM via JNB with SA are quite popular.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
bsbisland
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:23 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 27):
Brazil-South Africa flights don't fall in that category, even if LAD/MPM via JNB with SA are quite popular.

JNB and GRU are the biggest international aiports in both sides of the south atlantic, and SAA is the biggest player. I just thought it was not necessary to mention the reason of this flight.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:10 pm



Quoting Civilav (Reply 25):
quote=Abrelosojos,reply=22]You really think those kind of numbers justify a flight? I personally think it would never work ... especially given thats it relatively easy to get to Africa via Europe.

Abrelosojos: you need to read my reply more carefully please. I end it by stating "perhaps one day..."

Nothing is impossible and just as Malaysian has a regular twice-weekly 747-400 (no less !) Cape-Buenos Aires flight and it manages to fly it profitably.. why is it not feasible to think that, if conditions are right (particularly as regards Mexico's tough visa and entry requirements for all Africans) directs flights to Mexico cannot be a possibility from that continent ?

Getting to Africa from Mexico via Europe is certainly no big deal but it is not the same the other way round and I repeat there are very wealth South Africans who would love to come to Cancun.

That is all.

= God. Dont get soo touchy  Wink. Of course nothing is impossible. As far as I know, Malaysia does NOT make a profit on this route. And, what is the statistical evidence of "very wealthy South Africans would love to come to Cancun"? I think AM's future lies in more routes to Europe and building its inspiring vision of Asia through NRT and PVG.

Cheers,
A.

PS: And those "very wealthy South Africans" can always do a one-stop via GRU.

PS 2: And remember, Mexicans ALSO need to get a visa to go to South Africa, Namibia, etc. I think of the Latin countries, only Brasil-Argentina-Uruguay-Venezuela are exempt.
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:15 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 23):
Yes, GRU or GIG tarmac for 18 hours. If AM was to get 5th rights for GRU or GIG <> JNB at least thrice weekly, IMHO it wouldn't bleed AM money, however a once per week will, just imagine a Mexican AM crew spending a whole week in South Africa, AM flying GRU-JNB with 3 crews, plus almost everybody would agree that once per week flights are good for leisure travelers, not business people..
And bear in mind that there's no SkyTeam Southern Hemisphere Transatlantic option rightnow, CO, DL and CM could somewhat take advantage of a dream AM GRU-JNB, if not with codeshare, at least with good interline fares.

= It could work of course. Though, if it does have a 1x, I will apply for a job with AM and try to be on this flight. Imagine ... a layover in Brasil, AND a week in South Africa. Endless possibilities!

Cheers,
A.

PS: I think the Skyteam analysis would have worked if there as other airlines feeding huge Skyteam traffic to GRU or JNB. Remember, DL already offers JNB. CO's Skyteam North American passengers would fly via DL. CM ... maybe. I just dont see the demand tho.
Live, and let live.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:36 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 29):
PS 2: And remember, Mexicans ALSO need to get a visa to go to South Africa, Namibia, etc. I think of the Latin countries, only Brasil-Argentina-Uruguay-Venezuela are exempt.

It seems Peruvians (!) don't need visas for South Africa either.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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viaggiare
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:25 am



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 29):
I think of the Latin countries, only Brasil-Argentina-Uruguay-Venezuela are exempt.

Visa exemption for stays up to 90 days: Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Venezuela. For stays up to 30 days: Bolivia, Costa Rica, and Peru.

Source: South African Department of Home Affairs.
Entre el fuerte y el débil, la libertad oprime. Sólo la ley libera.
 
adriaticus
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:54 am

Interesting idea, indeed... What if, just what if, a country like Kenya could be better connected to the USA through Mexico than through Europe? (I'm ruling out South Africa due the existing JNB-DKR-ATL connection). There's no need to have O&D traffice between Mexico and Africa per se, but just help to better connect the USA and Africa through, let's say, as Ghost77 pointed out, CUN?

MMMmmmmmmmm  scratchchin 

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abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:26 am



Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 33):
Interesting idea, indeed... What if, just what if, a country like Kenya could be better connected to the USA through Mexico than through Europe? (I'm ruling out South Africa due the existing JNB-DKR-ATL connection). There's no need to have O&D traffice between Mexico and Africa per se, but just help to better connect the USA and Africa through, let's say, as Ghost77 pointed out, CUN?

MMMmmmmmmmm

__Ad.

= I hate to continue being a spoilsport on ths Mexican aspirations ... but in your example Adriaticus, why would the Kenyan passenger take a LONGER flight through CUN when say a faster option exists via AMS. Of course, if AM severly undercuts then thats a possibility ... without premium traffic or cargo, I'd doubt AM would be able to do so.

Cheers,
A.

PS: Some comparisons for the major metropolis:

2 segment path: 9981 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) 294° (NW) 8426 mi
CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 26° (NE) 1555 mi
2 segment path: 8957 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) 294° (NW) 8426 mi
CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) MIA (25°47'36"N 80°17'26"W) 50° (NE) 531 mi
2 segment path: 7783 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) 337° (N) 4140 mi
AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) JFK (40°38'23"N 73°46'44"W) 290° (W) 3643 mi
2 segment path: 8773 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) 337° (N) 4140 mi
AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) MIA (25°47'36"N 80°17'26"W) 282° (W) 4633 mi
2 segment path: 9870 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) 294° (NW) 8426 mi
CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 357° (N) 1444 mi
2 segment path: 8260 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) 337° (N) 4140 mi
AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) ORD (41°58'43"N 87°54'17"W) 300° (NW) 4120 mi
2 segment path: 10545 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) 294° (NW) 8426 mi
CUN (21°02'12"N 86°52'37"W) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 301° (NW) 2119 mi
2 segment path: 9718 mi
NBO (01°19'09"S 36°55'40"E) AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) 337° (N) 4140 mi
AMS (52°18'31"N 04°45'50"E) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 315° (NW) 5578 mi
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:27 am



Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 33):
Interesting idea, indeed... What if, just what if, a country like Kenya could be better connected to the USA through Mexico than through Europe? (I'm ruling out South Africa due the existing JNB-DKR-ATL connection). There's no need to have O&D traffice between Mexico and Africa per se, but just help to better connect the USA and Africa through, let's say, as Ghost77 pointed out, CUN?

MMMmmmmmmmm

PS: And, DL is starting its own NBO-DKR flight to connect to ATL and JFK.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:57 pm

México is a Latinamerican power, MEX serves one of the world biggest and more populated cities, but, the chances of MEX having plenty of ultra-long-flights to major destinations in Africa and Asia, much less Oceania are very slim.
Having lots of good connections - available several times per day - via a number of U.S. airports (for those who have/get visas) really works against direct MEX-Asia, MEX-Africa and MEX-Oceania. Even for selected MEX-Europe or MEX-Latinamerica sometimes it has been better to connect via U.S. airports.

I'm going to repeat it again, the most feasible way for a Mexican airline to fly to Africa (if they want) would be as a Brazil -JNB tag-on. I do expect some respectable México-South Africa traffic, at least for 2010, with or without a direct MEX-Africa flight.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:15 pm

Why is it absurd to think of a MEX-African link?....MEX is one of the largest cities in the world....surely there are 300 people a day out of the 10+million who want to / need to go to Africa every day....surely PEMEX has some interests in Lagos...
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
pzurita1
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:47 pm



Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 37):
surely there are 300 people a day out of the 10+million who want to / need to go to Africa every day...

Surely, but Africa is a big continent with over 50 countries and many many cities where that traffic might be heading.
Say 100 to CAI, 50 to JNB, 20 to DKR, 25 to CMN, 25 to CPT, and so on... Guess they all can be flown through connecting flights in Europe. It seems to me that there is no economics to have a flight between MEX and AFRICA.

pZ
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AM744
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:56 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 36):
México is a Latinamerican power, MEX serves one of the world biggest and more populated cities, but, the chances of MEX having plenty of ultra-long-flights to major destinations in Africa and Asia, much less Oceania are very slim

I don't see any viable African destination now. There is a market to Japan and probably China and Korea, that has been historically routed through the U.S. and AM is now trying to exploit.
Australia is an interesting case, US bound traffic could be routed through MEX and have access to plenty of frequencies and U.S. destinations. Here's one crazy armchair CEO idea: AM 777LR SYD-MEX-ATL. Change planes at MEX if your final destination is any major city in the U.S. Change planes at ATL if going elsewhere. If AM is going to survive their plumetting participation in the domestic market they need to think out of the box. Sooner than later, LCCs will be flying to most US cities and AM will have nothing to offer.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:28 pm



Quoting AM744 (Reply 39):
I don't see any viable African destination now

2010 is just around the corner and it seems MEX is already playing the Football World Cup.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 39):
Here's one crazy armchair CEO idea: AM 777LR SYD-MEX-ATL. Change planes at MEX if your final destination is any major city in the U.S. Change planes at ATL if going elsewhere

Are you taking MEX altitude into account there? I don't think a B777 can make it non-stop from MEX to SYD.
Then a MEX-AKL-SYD daily flight (with or without PPT) would make more sense..
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
IAD380
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:43 pm

One day, MEX could be a stopover on direct flights between South Africa and Texas or California if SA ever starts flying to IAH, DFW, LAX, or SFO. However, it won't happen anytime soon.
 
AM744
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:02 pm



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 40):
2010 is just around the corner and it seems MEX is already playing the Football World Cup.

LOL, that's true, but maybe some AM charters will do, as in 2006.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 40):
Are you taking MEX altitude into account there? I don't think a B777 can make it non-stop from MEX to SYD.
Then a MEX-AKL-SYD daily flight (with or without PPT) would make more sense..

Yep, that's why I considered the LR version, but even that might not be enough due to hot and high restrictions and runway lenght at MEX. If not, ACA will do as stopover, thus TIJ, ACA and CUN would be the intercontinental gateways to Asia, Oceania and Europe. One can dream, right?
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:45 am



Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
but I mean a direct nonstop flight to Africa from Mexico

Thank you for starting this interesting thread !
The inadequate demand is an issue against Mexico-Africa as nonstop.
The three air alliances are currently supporting services from Mexico to Africa by means of connections mostly through Europe.




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Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
The only Latin country with enough African ties to sustain a flight is Brazil, and TAM and Varig don't even fly there

During the 90s, Varig operated GIG-GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG, GRU-GIG-LAD and GRU-GIG-LOS.
LAD: Luanda, Angola.
LOS: Lagos, Nigeria.
As far as I know, by the 60s AR stopped at DKR Dakar, Senegal on their flights to Europe.
Central America to Africa? Considering that Canary Islands are geographically involved in Africa, both IB and VIASA [no longer in service] stopped there on the way to Europe for flights touching SJO, 30 years backward. Probably, they did a regular layover in Gando.




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Quoting KLM685 (Reply 5):
Maybe just one day SAA could start a seasonal frequency but market bonds are not that strong. Possibly and surely for the World Cup but not after that.

The charter services for the next World Cup 2010 for MEX-JNB must include a technical stopover somewhere on the road, due to the long distance between them as well as the altitude in both stations implying payload restrictions.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
AR385
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RE: Mexico-Africa

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:34 am

Aerolineas Argentinas at some point in the 80's had an EZE-CPT flight.