tommybp251b
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TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:31 pm

Hi Guys!

What is going on here?

http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=695499


Thanks for help.

Regards Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
CRJ900
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:37 pm

Access to forward avionics bay, perhaps?
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jetset7e7
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:40 pm

They will be engineering ladders, it may of have a technical fault after push back, and the engineer will be accessing the avionics bay, to try and correct the problem, i've seen it done before on an Air Atlanta 747.

Mark
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474218
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:52 pm

There is an access panel under the flight station that leads to the forward avionics compartment. There is also a door in the flight station floor that also provides access to the same compartment. It appears that there was a technical problem that showed up after pushback and a mechanic is trying to rectify it.
 
pilotboi
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:17 pm

Is that ladder built into the aircraft? If so, how is it accessed? In other words, how do you control the opening of the door and lowering of the ladder if you can't exactly reach it?
 
474218
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:33 pm



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 4):
Is that ladder built into the aircraft? If so, how is it accessed? In other words, how do you control the opening of the door and lowering of the ladder if you can't exactly reach it?

The ladder is not part of the aircraft. The door can be opened from the inside or the outside. The door is clearly visible in the attached photo (enlarge for better detail).


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © JZ

 
LAXintl
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:39 am

The ladder IS part of the avionics bay.

See this photo for a close up of the deployed ladder.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/360photography/1610258827/


Now... back to the THY picture.
The gentleman you see climbing up the ladder is a flight mechanic. TK regularly assigns such mechanics to ride with the aircraft to stations that are not normally set up to handle the equipment type. So after this A330 pushback he climbs in the avionics bay and then into the cockpit for a ride home.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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jetmech
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:03 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
The ladder is not part of the aircraft.

On the A330 / A340, the ladder is part of the aircraft. It collapses into multiple sections to stow above the door. The 747 avionics access door is immediately behind the nose-wheel, it also has a ladder that stows aboard the aircraft.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
hloutweg
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:52 am

Similar avionics bay entries can be found on this Airbus widebody:


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jackson Qiu


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders



The door can be found only on the left side of the aircraft right next to the nose landing gear bay doors.

Click on this link to view a cutaway of the A380 and notice the tiny ladder next to the scaled image of a man right below the nose

[Edited 2007-11-25 17:58:01]
In Varietate Concordia
 
474218
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:12 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
On the A330 / A340, the ladder is part of the aircraft. It collapses into multiple sections to stow above the door. The 747 avionics access door is immediately behind the nose-wheel, it also has a ladder that stows aboard the aircraft.

I learn something everyday.
 
pilotboi
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:04 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
So after this A330 pushback he climbs in the avionics bay and then into the cockpit for a ride home.

Why do I find this hard to believe? I'm not saying your wrong - but if he was really non-reving somewhere, why didn't he just bored on the jetway like everyone else? Even if he's an employee, he can't just jump on board and go - he needs to at least be added to the manifest and such.

Quoting JetMech (Reply 7):
It collapses into multiple sections to stow above the door

So how does one open/close the door and lower/raise the ladder from the ground? I imagine there is some control panel on the nose gear. Or maybe a control in the cockpit?
 
LAXintl
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:09 am



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
Why do I find this hard to believe? I'm not saying your wrong - but if he was really non-reving somewhere, why didn't he just bored on the jetway like everyone else?

He's on the headset supervising the push back and engine start.....

Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
he needs to at least be added to the manifest and such.

He's considered part of the operating crew
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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BreninTW
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:13 am



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
but if he was really non-reving somewhere

The way I understand it is that he's not non-revving, but is actually part of the flight crew. He does his thing outside the plane during pushback, then hops into the cockpit via the avionics bay prior to take-off. Thus he is on the manifest etc.

This only happens when the station is not one that has the flight/aircraft type scheduled.
 
Ceph
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:50 am

Interesting... Just learn about this... Never knew about it till now.
 
Airbus_A340
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:55 am

We removed those collapsible stairs on the Airbus fleet recently in Cathay as a weight saving measure because we never use them.
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pilotaydin
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:43 am

LAX is right, as a TK pilot i can tell you that's correct....we serve stations that have no MX facilities such as SIP or ODS, and a MX guy has to ride along with, he is part of the dry operating weight, once we declare pantry and crew, he is added into the load sheet, it's really simple, nothing there to have trouble believing....
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jetmech
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:34 pm



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
So how does one open/close the door and lower/raise the ladder from the ground? I imagine there is some control panel on the nose gear. Or maybe a control in the cockpit?

The ladder actually stows in a bracket mechanism which keeps it clear of the door. The ladder is manually deployed.

Quoting Airbus_A340 (Reply 14):
We removed those collapsible stairs on the Airbus fleet recently in Cathay as a weight saving measure because we never use them.

Makes sense, as you need a separate stand to access the avionics hatch from the outside in the first place, which negates the need for the ladder. Accessing the avionics bay from the cockpit does not require the ladder. On the 747, you can actually climb onto the nose gear to open and close the hatch, and deploy and stow the ladder. Most of the time we never bothered with the ladder and just pulled ourselves up unto the avionics bay manually.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
Door5Right
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:06 pm

Goodness, I never knew any of this! Most fascinating.
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jetmech
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting Door5right (Reply 17):

On the 747, there is also another hatch located on the lowest part of the fuselage just before where the wing to body fairing starts. When you open it, you are looking into the forward cargo bay. There is a small amount of electronic equipment inside as well as power outlets. We used to use the power outlets to supply power to our borescope equipment when we did borescope inspections at the terminal.

Regards, JetMech

[Edited 2007-11-27 13:16:20]
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breiz
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:50 pm



Quoting JetMech (Reply 16):
The ladder actually stows in a bracket mechanism which keeps it clear of the door. The ladder is manually deployed.

JetMech, I still do not catch how the ladder is deployed manually from the ground. The door is out of reach.
It looks like that you have to access from inside, open the door, release the ladder... and then go out and climb the ladder to reach the position where you were already minutes before....???
 
DaBuzzard
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:21 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
So after this A330 pushback he climbs in the avionics bay and then into the cockpit for a ride home.

Hmmm, if the flight crew don't open the trap door, does the poor sob have to ride in the hell hole all the way home?
 Silly
 
pilotboi
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:20 am



Quoting Breiz (Reply 19):
I still do not catch how the ladder is deployed manually from the ground

I don't get that either. And I've asked it twice already and still can't get the answer I'm looking for, lol. If the ladder is in the aircraft, one can not reach the door to open it manually...so there must be some remote control for it, either on the nose gear strut or in the cockpit.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:41 am



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 21):
If the ladder is in the aircraft, one can not reach the door to open it manually...so there must be some remote control for it, either on the nose gear strut or in the cockpit.

I think the answer is right here:

Quoting JetMech (Reply 16):
you need a separate stand to access the avionics hatch from the outside in the first place, which negates the need for the ladder

Doesn't make an awful lot of sense to have the ladder if you need an extra stand to access the door.

However, in the way that TK uses the ladder, it makes a lot of sense -- the pilot/FO pops down to the avionics hatch, opens the door and the FE climbs aboard -- it's probably all part of a checklist. Your T/O checklist is already being delayed while you wait for the FE to get into the cockpit, so it's no big deal.
 
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jetmech
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:06 am



Quoting Breiz (Reply 19):



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 21):

I think the idea behind the ladder is that someone accesses the avionics bay from inside the aircraft first. They can then open the hatch from the inside, and manually deploy the ladder. Other people from the outside of the aircraft can then climb up into the avionics bay.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
QANTAS077
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:10 am


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Photo © Montague Smith-WorldWide Aviation Photos



shot one here in Perth myself...
 
BlueSkys
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:33 am

Does anyone have a picture inside the avionics bay inside a widebody?
 
dc10hound
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:17 pm



Quoting JetMech (Reply 23):
I think the idea behind the ladder is that someone accesses the avionics bay from inside the aircraft first. They can then open the hatch from the inside, and manually deploy the ladder. Other people from the outside of the aircraft can then climb up into the avionics bay.

That is absolutely correct!

But the excercise of deploying that thing can be ridiculous. They jam, they stick, and generally are an enormous pain. The ladders on AA A300s were removed years ago, mainly to save weight, but also due to the non-functionality of that critter...
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breiz
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:48 pm



Quoting Dc10hound (Reply 26):
Quoting JetMech (Reply 23):
I think the idea behind the ladder is that someone accesses the avionics bay from inside the aircraft first. They can then open the hatch from the inside, and manually deploy the ladder. Other people from the outside of the aircraft can then climb up into the avionics bay.

That is absolutely correct!

But the excercise of deploying that thing can be ridiculous. They jam, they stick, and generally are an enormous pain. The ladders on AA A300s were removed years ago, mainly to save weight, but also due to the non-functionality of that critter...

Now it make sense (well, maybe not the ladder in the first place Smile). Thanks a lot to both of you.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:32 pm

Can anyone post a picture of these access doors on the 747 please....? Thanks  smile 
 
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zeke
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:06 pm



Quoting Airbus_A340 (Reply 14):
We removed those collapsible stairs on the Airbus fleet recently in Cathay as a weight saving measure because we never use them.

They were taken out about 5 years ago during SARS as a weight saving measure, not recently.
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Airbus_A340
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RE: TK A330: A Ladder Under The Cockpit?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:25 pm



Quoting Zeke (Reply 29):

They were taken out about 5 years ago during SARS as a weight saving measure, not recently.

Must have been an old iSuggest that I read then, i was in Year 12 5 years ago!
People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com