a380900
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Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:30 pm

It looks like SYD is requiring a runway inspection after an A380 take-off. Why would they?

Also, this is often given as an explanation for delays at take-off. How can an inspection after take-off delay the take-off?
 
piaflyer
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:45 pm

most likely due to the reason that the 380's engines are so strong that it can blow debris { grass, dirt, ect,} onto the runway which could be harmful for other aircraft while landing or taking off
 
overcast
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:55 pm

I think it is mainly due to the fact that the outer engines are near the outer edges of the runway. So there is a rick that some debris may be blown onto the rumway.

I think that SYD was going to do a runway inspection for the first 1 or 2 weeks of operations. The reason that the A380 was delayed was to fit this inspection into the busy departure periuod that occurs around the time of departure for the A380. i.e. delay the A380 to minimise any delays to other flights.

It look like these inspections have stopped now, as the SQ flights are far more timely now.
 
iahmark
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:56 pm



Quoting Piaflyer (Reply 1):
most likely due to the reason that the 380's engines are so strong that it can blow debris { grass, dirt, ect,} onto the runway which could be harmful for other aircraft while landing or taking

I don’t think this is the reason; the A380 are 70000+ lbs of thrust, B777-300 has way more power and has no issues.

The real culprit here’s the A380 wingspan (meaning the outboard engines will be above grass and not the runaway’s concrete or asphalt.

On takeoffs these outboard engines will be blowing whatever debris is on that grass and of course that could spill onto the runaway becoming a problem for the next airplane to takeoff and to a lesser degree the ones landing.
 
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moo
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:04 pm

Its a precautionary measure for a new type being operated commercially from that airport for the first time.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:25 pm



Quoting Overcast (Reply 2):
I think it is mainly due to the fact that the outer engines are near the outer edges of the runway. So there is a risk that some debris may be blown onto the rumway.

SYD runways are 45m (148 ft) wide. A380 wingspan 79.8m (261 ft 10 in). SIN runways are 60m (197 ft) wide.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:35 pm



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
It looks like SYD is requiring a runway inspection after an A380 take-off. Why would they?

VERY-VERY common at many airports worldwide when a large jet takes off. We do runway inspections here in BNA every morning after the China Air 747-400F takes off.

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
How can an inspection after take-off delay the take-off?

Ahh.. because the runway is closed until the inspections are complete
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
Analog
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:48 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 4):
Its a precautionary measure for a new type being operated commercially from that airport for the first time.

Really? There must be some limit to this. If an airline decided to operate, lets say a Cessna 402 (assuming its new to SYD), would the 1st flight really require a runway inspection?
 
EDICHC
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:53 pm



Quoting Iahmark (Reply 3):


Quoting Piaflyer (Reply 1):
most likely due to the reason that the 380's engines are so strong that it can blow debris { grass, dirt, ect,} onto the runway which could be harmful for other aircraft while landing or taking

I don’t think this is the reason; the A380 are 70000+ lbs of thrust, B777-300 has way more power and has no issues.

Yes but being a twin the 777's engines are not so close to the edge of the runway as the outer engines of the 380. It's not just about the power it is relative position as well.
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moo
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:06 am



Quoting Analog (Reply 7):
Really? There must be some limit to this. If an airline decided to operate, lets say a Cessna 402 (assuming its new to SYD), would the 1st flight really require a runway inspection?

I meant a new type as in totally new, never been operated commercially before ever, so it would be prudent to carry out precautionary measures for a period.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:12 am



Quoting Iahmark (Reply 3):
I don’t think this is the reason; the A380 are 70000+ lbs of thrust, B777-300 has way more power and has no issues.

It's not the power - but the location of the engines on the wings and their relationship to the runway surface / edges.

The A-380 is new and everyone will be doing extra checks as it goes into service at different airports around the world - to establish a baseline curve and to learn what is normal and what is abnormal.
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
How can an inspection after take-off delay the take-off?

There really isn't much of a delay to other aircraft due to the fact that the wake turbulence delay for other departing aircraft is 2-3 minutes (maybe longer) after the A380 departs. Plenty of time to inspect the runway.

Quoting Analog (Reply 7):
Really? There must be some limit to this. If an airline decided to operate, lets say a Cessna 402 (assuming its new to SYD), would the 1st flight really require a runway inspection?

no, only if there is a forseeable possibility of damage/debris after takeoff. I don't think the Cessna 402 would cause concern. If it did, the airport "should" carry out procedures for checking the runway after arrival/departure.

Quoting Moo (Reply 9):
I meant a new type as in totally new, never been operated commercially before ever, so it would be prudent to carry out precautionary measures for a period.

This procedure varies from airport to airport, it is not standard. With a new VLA, there is the possibility of damage to airfield signs or debris being kicked up onto the runway after landing or takeoff. It is only a precaution.

[Edited 2007-11-25 17:06:51]
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474218
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:35 am



Quoting Overcast (Reply 2):
It look like these inspections have stopped now, as the SQ flights are far more timely now.

The inspections are made after the SQ A380 takes off so how could that cause the SQ A380 to be delayed?
 
EDICHC
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:41 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 12):
The inspections are made after the SQ A380 takes off so how could that cause the SQ A380 to be delayed?

Say for example there are 3 flights ready to depart immediately after the 380. It makes sense to delay the 380 flight until after those 3 flights have departed so there is a short "window" in order to facilitate the runway inspection.
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474218
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:59 am



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
Say for example there are 3 flights ready to depart immediately after the 380. It makes sense to delay the 380 flight until after those 3 flights have departed so there is a short "window" in order to facilitate the runway inspection.

I understand that flights following the SQ A380 departure could be delayed.

I was questioning this statement:

Quoting Overcast (Reply 2):
It look like these inspections have stopped now, as the SQ flights are far more timely now.

 
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:06 am



Quoting Iahmark (Reply 3):
On takeoffs these outboard engines will be blowing whatever debris is on that grass and of course that could spill onto the runaway becoming a problem for the next airplane to takeoff and to a lesser degree the ones landing.

And since a picture is worth a thousand words:


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citationjet
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:08 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 14):
I understand that flights following the SQ A380 departure could be delayed.

Reread Reply 13:

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
It makes sense to delay the 380 flight

He is saying that the 380 flight itself may be delayed.......
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unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:13 am



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 13):
Say for example there are 3 flights ready to depart immediately after the 380. It makes sense to delay the 380 flight until after those 3 flights have departed so there is a short "window" in order to facilitate the runway inspection.

What if there are 10 or 20 or 30 flights ready to depart after the A380, should ATC hold the 380? At most airports, it is first come, first serve. You can either hold one aircraft for 45 minutes or spread the delay over all departing aircraft, 1 minute here, 90 seconds there. The delay will work its way out of the system eventually.
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LimaNiner
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Iahmark (Reply 3):
the A380 wingspan (meaning the outboard engines will be above grass

Surely, that's an exaggeration -- the outboard engines aren't truly *above* the grass, are they? The engines would ingest all sorts of crap, especially if they're at takeoff thrust, i.e., "gasping for air"?

Check out the following video at 1:21 and 3:23 -- watch what the pressure difference caused by the engines is doing to the water on the wet runway/in the humid air... (And, yes, of course I realize that's a 777, not an A380 -- the point is that these large engines at takeoff thrust are a thing to behold...)

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra..._Airlines_Aviation_Video-7273.html

[Edited 2007-11-25 20:23:19]
 
ptugarin
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:38 am

If the problem is related to wing span, I don't see how it will go away in two weeks to make it safe to skip inspections...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:38 am



Quoting EDICHC (Reply 8):
Yes but being a twin the 777's engines are not so close to the edge of the runway as the outer engines of the 380. It's not just about the power it is relative position as well.



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 10):
It's not the power - but the location of the engines on the wings and their relationship to the runway surface / edges.

Did y'all not even bother to read the part *immediately* after the text you quoted?  Yeah sure

Quoting Iahmark (Reply 3):
The real culprit here’s the A380 wingspan (meaning the outboard engines will be above grass and not the runaway’s concrete or asphalt.

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Stealthz
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:22 am



Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 19):
If the problem is related to wing span, I don't see how it will go away in two weeks to make it safe to skip inspections...

The problem won't "Go away" but a few weeks of inspections after departure will give the authorities enough data to decide -
A/ There is a problem and inspections are going to be a permanent feature of A-380 departures at SYD(or where ever)
B/ There is no consistant issue and inspections can be reduced or eliminated.
C/ The problem is severe and steps must be taken to widen the runway, unlikely as inspections are most likely just confirming data that computer modeling already indicated.

There is a 4th option and that is reschedule SQ220 by a small amount of time so it feeds into a natural gap in the sequence but this will obviously not be practical when there are 10-20 or 30 A-380 movements a day

Cheers
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Gemuser
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:28 am

The SYD runway is 45m wide. The A380 is certified for 45m wide runways. But you really want 60m wide runways for a more comfortable operation. Syd is NOT widening the runway,

The outboard engines are approx 24m from the aircraft centre line, which puts them about 1.5m past the edge of the runway on a 45 m runway. In other word they ARE "over the grass". To minimise FOD potential SYD has tarmac sealed along side the runway edges, out to a certain width. I have not seen anything on how wide this "width" is, but I would assume about 15m each side, based on the aircraft wingspan.

This tarmac seal has been applied relatively recently and the A380 is the only aircraft "using" it. It is standard procedure to inspect newly sealed areas on a regular basis. I would assume in this case that the SYD operator is ensuring for the first week or so that nothing untoward is occurring with this new operation and that no defects are appearing in the newly sealed areas.

Reference for engine location: http://www.content.airbusworld.com/S...a/docs/AC/DATA_CONSULT/AC_A380.pdf

Gemuser
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iwok
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:48 am



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
It looks like SYD is requiring a runway inspection after an A380 take-off. Why would they?

I have a feeling this will go away once there are some statistics collected.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 22):
The SYD runway is 45m wide. The A380 is certified for 45m wide runways. But you really want 60m wide runways for a more comfortable operation. Syd is NOT widening the runway,

Does anyone know how much farther out the 380 engines are compared to the 747? From this picture they don't seem to be much farther out, maybe something like 5m furtherout on the engine centerline?

Big version: Width: 1118 Height: 1494 File size: 220kb


iwok
 
Pellegrine
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:36 am



Quoting Iwok (Reply 23):
Does anyone know how much farther out the 380 engines are compared to the 747? From this picture they don't seem to be much farther out, maybe something like 5m furtherout on the engine centerline?

According to the airport planning documents:

744 outer engine to outer engine span: 136'8" or 41.7 meters
A388 outer engine to outer engine span: 168.64' or 51.4 meters

So yes, the A388's outer engines are about 5m further away from centerline than the 744's.
oh boy!!!
 
iahmark
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:03 am



Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 18):
Surely, that's an exaggeration -- the outboard engines aren't truly *above* the grass, are they? The engines would ingest all sorts of crap, especially if they're at takeoff thrust, i.e., "gasping for air"?

See post 22 for answers(see below):

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 22):
The SYD runway is 45m wide. The A380 is certified for 45m wide runways. But you really want 60m wide runways for a more comfortable operation. Syd is NOT widening the runway,

The outboard engines are approx 24m from the aircraft centre line, which puts them about 1.5m past the edge of the runway on a 45 m runway. In other word they ARE "over the grass".

-------------

Quoting LimaNiner (Reply 18):
Check out the following video at 1:21 and 3:23 -- watch what the pressure difference caused by the engines is doing to the water on the wet runway/in the humid air... (And, yes, of course I realize that's a 777, not an A380 -- the point is that these large engines at takeoff thrust are a thing to behold...)

Not true for 2 reasons:
A) A380 engines are less powerfull (70,000-80,000 lbs vs. 777's 90-115,000 lbs) meaning less chance of generating vortices and if so they will be "milder"
B) In most 4 engine passenger planes the outboard engines sit higer above the ground than the inboard ones ( see any picture from DC-8, B707,B747, etc..) . An enginne sitting higher above the ground has less chance of picking up any FOD, also less chanvce of vortixes.
 
concentriq
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:43 am

I was talking once to some ops dude at CLE (at the old Observation deck, which is now closed  Sad ) , right after some private Saudi 747 landed, and he told me that CLE inspects runway after anything heavy LANDS, but not takes off.

As a sidenote.. Because of Cleveland Clinic, CLE gets many unusual visitors once in a while. Those rich folks dont mess with their health!
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BigJimFX
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:17 am



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 11):
There really isn't much of a delay to other aircraft due to the fact that the wake turbulence delay for other departing aircraft is 2-3 minutes (maybe longer) after the A380 departs. Plenty of time to inspect the runway

Umm... Last time I inspected a runway... (13401ftX200ft) it took about 10-15 minutes.
Granted that's with 4 dedicated inspectors and @ night. I have mad respect for those Heathrow guys that do it in between arrivals.

Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 17):
What if there are 10 or 20 or 30 flights ready to depart after the A380, should ATC hold the 380? At most airports, it is first come, first serve. You can either hold one aircraft for 45 minutes or spread the delay over all departing aircraft, 1 minute here, 90 seconds there. The delay will work its way out of the system eventually.

It is first come fist serve... Unless the ATC system sees it fit to hold a flight due to AIRLINE VOLUME DELAYS! I'm sure these issues are not prevalent in Australia... but don't forget SYD has parallel runway's so as one's closed... the other one can facilitate some departures... We call that a non issue and is usually pre-coordinated with ATC beforehand.
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kc135topboom
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:39 pm



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 11):
There really isn't much of a delay to other aircraft due to the fact that the wake turbulence delay for other departing aircraft is 2-3 minutes (maybe longer) after the A380 departs. Plenty of time to inspect the runway.

Well, that really depends on how many people are available to inspect the runway, and how long the runway is.

Here at DFW, with our 13,400' long runways (4 of the 7 DFW runways), it takes two people 6-8 minutes to inspect a runway. We restrict the speed during rwy inspections to 20 MPH for those inspecting the runway. Any faster than that increases the chances of missing some FOD.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:48 pm



Quoting Ptugarin (Reply 19):
If the problem is related to wing span, I don't see how it will go away in two weeks to make it safe to skip inspections...

after two weeks all the FOD will have been sucked up, and there will be a nice clean strip of grass either side of the runway  Silly
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:16 pm

In my airport operations days at DAB, we had air force one take off one time and on takeoff it took out SIXTEEN runway edge lights!!! We only found about half of them afterwards!

I bet that will be a regular problem for the A380, and its no suprise why airports like ATL are saying "no thanks" at the prospect of going through the hassle for only a 1-2 of A380s per day.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
isitsafenow
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:23 pm



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):

If you have never seen a runway drive-down or inspection, you have not spent alot of time around airports.
They happen daily, perhaps hourly at some fields. After something big leaves, it is not uncommon to see
one because of the wake kicked up by a huge wingspan...i.e. an A380.
safe  biggrin 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:28 pm



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 22):
The SYD runway is 45m wide. The A380 is certified for 45m wide runways.

The A-380 can only operate (in the US) on a 45m (150') wide runway if that runway also has a 35' (11.5m) asphalt shoulder on each side of the runway.

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 27):
Umm... Last time I inspected a runway... (13401ftX200ft) it took about 10-15 minutes.
Granted that's with 4 dedicated inspectors and @ night.

Jim, that is for our full CFR part 139 rwy inspections, done at night. Here we are only talking about a FOD inspection behind an airplane that has the potential to generate a lot of FOD.

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 27):
I have mad respect for those Heathrow guys that do it in between arrivals.

Why? During the day time, DFW does the same thing, and we have a lot more operations than LHR does. Those guys do just as good a job as DFW, FRA, ATL, ORD, JFK, BOS, CDG, LAX, or any other busy airport.


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FlyMeToTheMoon
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:46 pm

They have a Concorde taking off right after it don't they?  duck   flamed 
Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:22 pm

Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 27):
Granted that's with 4 dedicated inspectors and @ night.

At night is a different story. I have taken 20 minutes on occasion to check a runway at night, and that is without any traffic. A busted light and FOD are two different things when it comes to daytime operations. A busted light can wait till there is a break in the action to fix. FOD needs to be removed immediatly.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 32):
Jim, that is for our full CFR part 139 rwy inspections, done at night. Here we are only talking about a FOD inspection behind an airplane that has the potential to generate a lot of FOD.



Quoting BigJimFX (Reply 27):
Unless the ATC system sees it fit to hold a flight due to AIRLINE VOLUME DELAYS!

I am not discounting SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES OR ATC DELAYS! There are many reasons to hold an aircraft prior to departure, any type aircraft. But there should be no reason to hold an aircraft because of the possible insignificant delays it may pass on to others.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
We restrict the speed during rwy inspections to 20 MPH for those inspecting the runway. Any faster than that increases the chances of missing some FOD.

I agree, the faster you drive, the more chances you will miss something. But 20mph is a crawl. 6-8 minutes for that size of pavement sounds about right and it coincides with me taking about 3 minutes to check a runway 3/4 that size. But I am willing to bet if you increased your speed to 30 or 40mph, you're still not going to miss anything.

[Edited 2007-11-26 09:25:05]
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unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:59 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 28):
Here at DFW, with our 13,400' long runways (4 of the 7 DFW runways), it takes two people 6-8 minutes to inspect a runway.

Let me also ask, when inspecting a runway after a departure for FOD, do you inspect the runway full length, or do you exit the runway after rotation + 1000 feet? Unless you are performing your daily 139 inspection of the runway, I see no reason to inspect the runway full length if the aircraft left the ground after 7000 feet and if there are aircraft waiting to depart.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 35):
Let me also ask, when inspecting a runway after a departure for FOD, do you inspect the runway full length, or do you exit the runway after rotation + 1000 feet?

That is what we look at, the actual runway used, plus about 1000'. Of course if we need to inspect for FOD behind the LH A-340-300, in July or August, that is pretty much the entire 13,400' lenght. The Airbus actually uses about 11,000', but when you add the additional 1000' we go, the next taxiway exit is near the end of the rwy.
 
0newair0
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:30 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 6):
We do runway inspections here in BNA every morning after the China Air 747-400F takes off.

Do you know if BNA does it specifically for the China Air 747 flight or if they do it because the airport is required to inspect the runways at that time due what is written in BNA's Airport Certification Manual?
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YULWinterSkies
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:34 pm



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
How can an inspection after take-off delay the take-off?

Would you like to see an inspector sucked in the next plane's engine?
When I doubt... go running!
 
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GrahamHill
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:56 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but why carrying runway checks while this plane has been tested for the last two years? I mean, the A380 went to Sydney before, and took off and landed dozens of times (if not hundreds) on many airports in the world. I guess airport staff in Sydney know already the effects on the runway when an A380 is taking off, so why taking these tests on commercial flights?

Sorry again if this question sounds stupid  ashamed 
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glideslope
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 15):
And since a picture is worth a thousand words:


What a mess. Is the outboard engines thrust vectored more inward exacerbating the issue? Blowing debris inward onto the runway? I don't see runway inspections after every 747 take off at JFK, or YYZ?

Airports with grass near the edge will need to make changes IMO. If this airframe sells in quantity, inspections after every takeoff will be impractical.

[Edited 2007-11-26 12:31:20]

[Edited 2007-11-26 12:31:57]

[Edited 2007-11-26 12:32:50]
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unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:59 pm



Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 37):
Do you know if BNA does it specifically for the China Air 747 flight or if they do it because the airport is required to inspect the runways at that time due what is written in BNA's Airport Certification Manual?

The airport (we) is not required to inspect the runway after any departure.

We have learned in the past that any 4 engine heavy jet departure or landing has a significantly higher rate of FOD production than any other aircraft that visits Nashville. We started following the aircraft a couple of years ago mainly because runway 2L/20R had shoulder problems. The asphalt was in such bad shape, we would routinely need to close the runway down to sweep it. That problem has been fixed but the runway sweeps behind the aircraft continue. We also follow during taxi to make sure it doesn't knock over signs. The field here has hills and valleys and unfamiliar pilots will throttle up the engines in an effort to make it up the next hill.
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unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 pm



Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 39):
Pardon my ignorance, but why carrying runway checks while this plane has been tested for the last two years? I mean, the A380 went to Sydney before, and took off and landed dozens of times (if not hundreds) on many airports in the world. I guess airport staff in Sydney know already the effects on the runway when an A380 is taking off, so why taking these tests on commercial flights?

Because airports are different from city to city. The aircraft may not change and there maybe data on how it will effect airfield conditions, but until it actually departs, you can never really know how or if it will damage your airfield.
Slower traffic, keep right
 
unattendedbag
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:07 pm



Quoting Glideslope (Reply 40):
What a mess. Is the outboard engines thrust vectored more inward exacerbating the issue? Blowing debris inward onto the runway?

Aircraft engines do not distribute debris in a single direction or in a uniform pattern. Depending on how the jet blast hits the debris, it could be vectored into the grass or onto the runway.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 40):
I don't see runway inspections after every 747 take off at JFK, or YYZ?

Those airports receive constant heavy 4 engine traffic. The more an airport gets, the better able it is to adapt to that type aircraft.

Anyone know if there was a runway sweep performed after the A380 landed at JFK?
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Gemuser
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:23 pm



Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 39):
Pardon my ignorance, but why carrying runway checks while this plane has been tested for the last two years? I mean, the A380 went to Sydney before, and took off and landed dozens of times (if not hundreds) on many airports in the world. I guess airport staff in Sydney know already the effects on the runway when an A380 is taking off, so why taking these tests on commercial flights?

I think that at SYD, can't talk about other airports, the inspection is as much about the recently sealed runway sides as about the aircraft itself.

Aviation tends to be consertative, of course, so an extra inspection or two after new work & the introduction of a new "largest" aircraft is purely routine.

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GrahamHill
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RE: Runway Inspection After A380 Take-off? Why?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 pm



Quoting UnattendedBag (Reply 42):
Because airports are different from city to city. The aircraft may not change and there maybe data on how it will effect airfield conditions, but until it actually departs, you can never really know how or if it will damage your airfield.



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 44):
I think that at SYD, can't talk about other airports, the inspection is as much about the recently sealed runway sides as about the aircraft itself.

Aviation tends to be consertative, of course, so an extra inspection or two after new work & the introduction of a new "largest" aircraft is purely routine.

Thanks a lot for your answers  Smile
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