bnatraveler
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:10 am

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:46 pm

I don't get it. XJ stops posting their T100s, quietly file their objections, someone notices it, the DOT *finally* rules, XJ objects and nothing...this has been going on since 6/1/07 without resolution. Unless this is an inside agreement between XJ and DOT to slow-walk this, I surely don't get it. I understand that gov't takes a long time to get things done, but this is frankly permitting XJ to keep their T100s confidential and it seems that DOT's inaction is tacit approval of their request.

See OST-28396 at http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchResu...umberValue=28396&searchType=docket.

Anyone have any insight into this one?
 
toltommy
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:10 pm

First of all, what is a T100? Second of all, you seem to be referring to ExpressJet, but use the code for Mesaba (XJ). I'd suggest using a little more detail in your post.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:34 pm



Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 1):
First of all, what is a T100?

Passenger loads by route, as well as other data, that airlines report to the government
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:19 pm

ExpressJet (XE) has petitioned to keep the data private in order to prevent others from profiting from their investment. XE has invested a great deal of time and money into researching and developing routes and would like to protect that investment for as long as possible. It's not as if load data is hard to come by in the first place. If someone really wanted to start up ONT-GEG to compete with XE, they could find the XE load data fairly easily.
I'm sure the delay you speak of is a result of some sort of appeal or arbitration regarding the DOT ruling.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11515
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Drewwright (Reply 3):
XE has invested a great deal of time and money into researching and developing routes and would like to protect that investment for as long as possible.

That's funny. Doesn't EVERY carrier invest a great deal of time and money in researching and developing routes?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Drewwright (Reply 3):
from profiting from their investment

And by "profiting" we mean "pointing and laughing" Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 3952
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:34 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):

And by "profiting" we mean "pointing and laughing"

First decent a.net chortle in a while...thanks.
What the...?
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:03 am

I really want XE to succeed, if for no other reason than to make you naysayers eat your words!
Skybus can suck it as far as I'm concerned...they take airline travel to entirely new lows. XE, however, brings a good product at a reasonable fare to underserved markets, and pays their employees a respectable wage at the same time. This is the type of airline that needs to succeed. And with larger aircraft to grow into and further refinement of the business model, it could be a huge success.
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:33 am

If you want XE to succeed then kiss the low fares away. As many have pointed out the RJ is not a LCC model. Yet XE runs it like one. Hence why they are losing money hand over fist with the most ill concieved plan since I-Air.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:15 am

DOT affirms its previous decision to compeling ExpreesJet to release its traffic data.

Quote:
DOT Will Not Overturn ExpressJet T-100 Decision
11/28/2007

The U.S. Transportation Dept. will not reconsider its Sept. 10 decision that rejected ExpressJet's motion to treat operating data for its independent branded flying operation as confidential. DOT said it could not find "a compelling justification for overturning the original denial" of the motions.

Requires subscription;
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...Overturn+ExpressJet+T-100+Decision

Or search http://www.regulations.gov for DOT-OST-2007-28396
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:06 am



Quoting Drewwright (Reply 7):
they take airline travel to entirely new lows.

Nice sentiment (and totally uncalled for)

XE has CASM costs that are 4 times higher than SX based on industry norms.


I wish XE well but they are going to have to work on their model, and they should not get special treatment on their T100's
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:57 am

It's interesting that the airline MOST reliant on T-100 data to determine their initial start up routes is the airline fighting tooth and nail to prevent the other carriers from seeing how poorly it's doing.  Silly
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
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RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:28 pm



Quoting Drewwright (Reply 7):
I really want XE to succeed, if for no other reason than to make you naysayers eat your words!

X-Jet will be a distant memory about as soon as the leases run out on the jungle jets. As a business case, the whole idea of X-Jet is to keep planes that aren't under codeshare agreement flying to at least offset the cost of leases vs. absorbing that cost while the planes collect dust. X-Jet is a stop gap, not an airline with long term objectives.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:09 pm

Well. ExpressJet is actually the former Britt Airways and the policy at Britt Airways that passenger information was NOT made public. Their traffic data was never in any of the Airline Magazines like Air Transport World or Commuter Air.
So I dont think they need to make their traffic figures public to anyone.

Just MY Two Cents...

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
itsnotfinals
Posts: 1573
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:51 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:03 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 13):
So I dont think they need to make their traffic figures public to anyone.

all large carriers must report traffic to DOT as pointed out above , they are violating DOT rules

http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/sources/
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:10 pm



Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 10):
XE has CASM costs that are 4 times higher than SX based on industry norms.

XE's branded flying's CASM is also three times its RASM apparently  Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
acvitale
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2001 8:25 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:16 pm



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 13):
Well. ExpressJet is actually the former Britt Airways and the policy at Britt Airways that passenger information was NOT made public. Their traffic data was never in any of the Airline Magazines like Air Transport World or Commuter Air.
So I dont think they need to make their traffic figures public to anyone.

Just MY Two Cents...

Access-Air

I guess you do not care about the rule of law. IT IS THE LAW. Express Jet is not following federal regulations to release the data.

I doubt competitors want to see how much they are losing but rather management is trying to avoid shareholder revolt.

Also... Britt Airways was not around when the DOT data was a required filing.

You better check your six and get up to date as your argument was shot down.
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:51 pm



Quoting ACVitale (Reply 16):
You better check your six and get up to date as your argument was shot down.

Firstly, You are rude!!!

Secondly, Im stating a historical fact.........and I never said that they werent reporting anything to the DOT which only became the ruling body after the (In my opinion) unfortunate demise of the CAB....It may have to be reporte NOW to the DOT, but back then, Britt Airways was a PRIVATELY held company and was not required to make its traffic results made public!!!! This is from both Bill and and Jim Britt as it came up in covenrsation, face to face this past August!! So theres my contribution...and two cents!!!!!!!!!!

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
drewwright
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 15, 2001 3:51 am

RE: Why Is The DOT Ignoring The ExpressJet T100 Ruling?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:01 pm

There are an awful lot of rude people here!
You do bring up a good point, in that Britt was privately held and was not required to provide such stats. With the XJET share price being so low, I would not be at all surprised to see it go private once again with a stock buyback. Better that than a hostile takeover!