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breiz
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A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:14 pm

The A318 is now approved for steep approaches as necessary at LCY.
A new market for the A318 and Elite version, or still too much aluminium for the load?
http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...7_11_23_a318cfm_steepapproach.html
 
acelanzarote
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:10 pm

ramp space will be the next problem, more required I guess...
from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
 
ba319-131
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:34 pm

Ramp space is an issue right now, though I undertand they are looking at various options to increase it.

Space aside, the 318 opens a whole range of new possibilities from LCY, fantastic news for the airport and local community who use LCY.

M
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
iclcy
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:36 pm



Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 1):
ramp space will be the next problem, more required I guess

Work is already underway for 5 more ramp spaces over the dock to the east of the tower.

As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

The only change on the radar at the moment is an application to increase the number of aircraft movements.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:44 pm

I'd say the 318 will only ever be used for corporate flights into LCY, the parking stands are so packed tightly together that anything bigger than a 146 would probably cause an overall decrease in airport capacity if the stands are re-aligned. Having said that, the airport has to look to the future, the 146/RJ can't last forever.
 
XXXX10
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:51 pm

I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:34 pm



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

Yes, but with a tech stop on the westbound leg?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:08 pm



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

You're ambitious! I'd just like to see LCY service to a European hub for further connections.  spin 

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

Do you have a link to the rules? I think noise is the limit... but is there a weight limit in place? (Notice I'm asking.)

LCY fascinates me. Its an absolutely amazing location for an airport. Because of said location, I understand having to operate it under tough rules. Cest la vie.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Kieron747
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:14 pm

It would be great from my spotter's point of view. I see every day (when waiting at Warren Street/Tottenham Court Road in the evening) for the bus home the props flying over past the Telecom Tower and Centrepoint. Imagine an A318!!!

K
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AirbusA6
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:36 pm

Well, LCY needs something to replace the Avros, however nice it is to have one part of the globe which is still a bastion of the British Aircraft Industry!

Can the E190/E195 use LCY, as a replacement 100 seater is needed, and that would be an option if certified?
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
icna05e
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:35 pm



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 7):
You're ambitious! I'd just like to see LCY service to a European hub for further connections. spin

I think it would be an interesting fit for AF's business-oriented LYS hub. Pretty reliable 20-min connections there to most major city in continental Europe. And guess what... AF has A318s and already operates them from Lyon! Well a bit of an overkill to open such a route, after all LCY is much O&D oriented but hey why not?
 
alangirvan
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:59 pm

If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?
 
bx737
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:07 pm

I heard recently that the 146-300 is no longer allowed operate here, is this true? My airline used to operate 146-300s into LCY. I am also wodering about the parking of A318s. I believe aircraft park tail in to the airport building due to runway clearance, would the A318 be able to park that way. Bearing in mind the engines are bigger on the A318, would they damage the building?
 
voodoo
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:00 am

The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
voodoo
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:01 am

Sorry bizarre double post effect. Double edited out.

[Edited 2007-11-26 16:03:01]
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
jdevora
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
As for the A318 coming to LCY, not for a long time. It isn't in the current master plan & no mention was made at the community forum which the management holds with those that live around LCY.

I just saw this re-reading a Flight Global article when the A318 made it the first time to LCY

Quote:

This all matters to London City, says managing director Richard Gooding: "This new aircraft is expected to replace aircraft such as the BAe 146/Avro RJ series, which is no longer in production. Carrying 107 passengers, the A318 helps secure long-term development of London City airport, which is expected to quadruple in throughput in the next 25 years."

Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY



Quote:
The short take-off was not limiting today with about 10kt headwind, says Chandler, adding that in still air the aircraft would be slightly payload limited.

From:
Airbus A318 makes first test arrival and departure at London City Airport and
A318 makes mark at London City

Cheers
JD

[Edited 2007-11-26 16:51:41]
 
aamd11
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:18 am



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 11):
If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

I think there's a jet embargo at YTZ.

I'm pretty sure that's why the only aircraft ever to operate there are turboprop aircraft. Jazz used to use Dash 8's, and now Porter uses Q400s.

So although some jets are capable of operating there, they won't do because they're not welcome at the airport.

At least, that's my (very slim) understanding on the subject.
 
Devilfish
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:48 am



Quoting Breiz (Thread starter):
The A318 is now approved for steep approaches as necessary at LCY.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Neil Guinea


With CFM engines. The PW6000A equipped A318 has been approved since June 2007. From the link.....

Quote:
"In June 2007, approval was granted by the EASA for the A318 powered by Pratt and Whitney PW6000 engines."

With this approval, we might see AF's A318s not only in LHR and MAN, but LCY as well.....

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Photo © Chris Waser
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Photo © Darren Wilson


.....and maybe Tarom's too, if it could make it out of LCY to BUH without too much load penalty.....
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Photo © Danny Versteegen


.....for they also fly their B737 and A310 to the UK.....

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Photo © Neil Guinea
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Photo © Paul Morley


And last but definitely not least, for those who ordered A318 Elites with an eye to operating them into LCY.....

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Photo © Thomas Piskol
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Photo © French Frogs Aviation Pictures


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Photo © Vasco Garcia
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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt


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Photo © Sergey Riabsev - Russian AviaPhoto Team
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Photo © Sergey Riabsev - Russian AviaPhoto Team


However, LA's A318s are the only P&W powered ones in service, so far.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Alejandro Ruiz



Quoting IcLCY (Reply 3):
Work is already underway for 5 more ramp spaces over the dock to the east of the tower.

According to previous threads, A318s at LCY would be limited to three on the ramp at any one time.

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 9):
Can the E190/E195 use LCY, as a replacement 100 seater is needed, and that would be an option if certified?



Quoting Voodoo (Reply 13):
The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.

The E170 has already been approved, but it's tail posed a little problem. The E190 is also planned for certification.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...7/lineage-interior-on-display.html

Quote:
"Looking to the future, Embraer's E-170 has passed its steep approach and noise trials for London City airport, although sources say the aircraft's high tail poses a slight problem in terms of accommodating it at the stands. Once that issue has been ironed out, the future looks rosy for possible certification of the stretched variant, the E-190 and consequently the Lineage."
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Aircellist
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:50 am



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

Hey, let's dream! That would be very funny: service from LCY to YTZ and, let's say LGA (and, why not, BOS)... A few dozen seats... Hefty pricing... I wonder... How would it fill up?

Those would be among the most exclusive seats possible; even more so than Concorde!
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
anstar
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:47 am

I doubt their is enough runway for the 318 to be fully loaded with fuel and make it to USA let alone somewhere like Athens
 
vv701
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:30 am



Quoting XXXX10 (Reply 5):
I presume that the A318 will be performance limited from LCY

It would be great if there were a transatlantic service perhaps in an all business class layout. Somehow I'm not sue that it would be possible even with a reduced payload.

The Airbus press release focuses on the ability of the 318 to land at LCY. It makes no mention of departure.

My understanding is that the Avro RJ100s operated by BA out of LCY are severely capacity restricted when operating on the longer routes like LCY-MAD. Indeed their maximum load on such routes may be 25 per cent less than that of a fully laden RJ85. As a result BA had planned to swap two of their RJ100s for two RJ85s. They even got as far as returning one of their RJ100s to BAE Systems last March planning to replace it and another aircraft with two ex-Mesaba Northwest Airlink RJ85s. However the costs of converting the RJ85s to European standards proved prohibitive. So the aircraft that had been returned to BAE Systems that had already been taken out of BA livery was quickly given 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' titles but not its full livery and returned to BA LCY operations:

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Gerry Hill - WorldAirImages


Now BA are hoping to lease two RJ85s currently operated by Blue 1(KF) from next spring.

So does anyone know what range a fully laden 318 would have operating out of LCY. I am pretty sure that if an RJ100 cannot make it anywhere near MAD, the 318 will not make it across the Atlantic.
 
jdevora
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:59 am



Quoting VV701 (Reply 20):
The Airbus press release focuses on the ability of the 318 to land at LCY. It makes no mention of departure.

See reply 15, with the wind that they had during the tests they could take off without payload limitations.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 20):
So does anyone know what range a fully laden 318 would have operating out of LCY. I am pretty sure that if an RJ100 cannot make it anywhere near MAD, the 318 will not make it across the Atlantic.

From A318 makes mark at London City

Quote:
He adds that the aircraft would mean that the airport could offer non-stop, full-payload flights to additional destinations like Madrid and Barcelona, Rome and Vienna, and further afield with minor load penalties that are acceptable at a high-yield departure point like City. Upper echelon large corporate jets like the A318 Elite could even make it non-stop from City to the Middle East, he suggests.

 
columba
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:08 pm



Quoting Voodoo (Reply 13):
The original Crossair order for E-170s had them fitted with a ventral airbrake specifically for the LCY approach. So it should be possible for an airline to order/equip and certify an E-jet for LCY.

I thought this brake is a standard on the E-Jet ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
icna05e
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:57 pm



Quoting Jdevora (Reply 15):
A318 makes mark at London City

Wow... I dn't realize there where software modifications needed for LCY ops. I am guessing all A318 Elites will be fitted but what about Air France or Tarom's? How easy is it to retrofit this "steep approach button"?

Reminds me of the red button in Batman's car, it turns the airplane into a "super A318". I can see our 2 superheroes going "careful... I'm hitting the button"  mischievous 
 
Devilfish
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting ANstar (Reply 19):
I doubt their is enough runway for the 318 to be fully loaded with fuel and make it to USA let alone somewhere like Athens

Say EWR at 3,486 mi - is pushing it, even with the 4100 nm range Elite with 8 passengers. Athens at 1,492 mi is well within the corporate jet's range with 18 pax. However, out of LCY, the figure looks optimistic. From the link....

Quote:
"airport managing director Richard Gooding says the A318's arrival will double the range of destinations available non-stop from the airport. Spain and Eastern Europe will be within its operating range with 107 passengers on board, says Airbus"

From Airbus' tables, 1,000 nm seems to be the practical limit on an A318 out of a 3,750' available runway.

[Edited 2007-11-27 09:28:53]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
voodoo
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:36 am

I assume the 318 has the double-slotted flaps of the 320/319.
Would be interesting to know its performance if it had the triple-slotted jobbies of the 321.
Though I guess the weight would increase.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
columba
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:44 am

Didn´t BA had the A318 on order at some time ? What airlines would consider ordering the A318 for LCY flights ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
BrianDromey
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:24 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
I thought this brake is a standard on the E-Jet ?

I dont think they fitted it in the end, they were able to make teh E170 hit the required targets without it during testing.

The future of LCY is definately A318 and E170/190. I think the A318 might be poplar with BA, but ultimately I think the E-Jets will be more popular.

E-Jets would be a hell of a lot more versatile outside LCY operations too, so for an airline like BA or VLM with such a large dedicated LCY fleet 318 could be good. AF is unlikely to serve LCY with A318, as these are WX routes, and X cant operate an AF mainline AC, unless AF mainline comes into LCY. Seems unlikely though, especially given new train services from LON and limited connections market.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
ZRH
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:27 pm



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 27):
The future of LCY is definately A318 and E170/190. I think the A318 might be poplar with BA, but ultimately I think the E-Jets will be more popular.

Swiss has quite a lot LCY flights with their AVRO RJ 100. Sooner or later they will have to replace them. I guess they will go with the E-Jets although they already fly the 319/320/321. Probably they even will get some out of the LH order. But I think that the 170 will be to small, they need at least the 190 or 195.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:28 pm



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 27):
The future of LCY is definately A318 and E170/190. I think the A318 might be poplar with BA, but ultimately I think the E-Jets will be more popular.

What do you think about the Sukhoi Superjet, if it manages to break through into the Western European market it might be a possibility?
 
columba
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:35 pm



Quoting ZRH (Reply 28):
Swiss has quite a lot LCY flights with their AVRO RJ 100. Sooner or later they will have to replace them. I guess they will go with the E-Jets although they already fly the 319/320/321. Probably they even will get some out of the LH order. But I think that the 170 will be to small, they need at least the 190 or 195.

Lufthansa has 30 E190 on order and options for another 50:
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN1831967520070418
Maybe LH will get some E195s, too. I think it is a given that LX will get some of the Embraers to replace the Avros.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
BrianDromey
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:41 pm



Quoting ZRH (Reply 28):
Probably they even will get some out of the LH order. But I think that the 170 will be to small, they need at least the 190 or 195.

IIRC LH took over the LX E-Jet launch order, and also added frames, these are for operation by SWISS, hence why LX is getting a relatively small number of A320 family a/c in the near future.

Quoting Clydenairways (Reply 29):
What do you think about the Sukhoi Superjet, if it manages to break through into the Western European market it might be a possibility?

Im not familiar with that frame, I have to say. I don't know if it capable of LCY operations. If it is at the right price, and capable enough it would be great, I would have thought. Another aircraft that should have been LCY capable was the FairchildDornier 728. Pity that airframe never got off the ground.

The only reason I think the E-Jet will be more popular is because it is more economical on a wider profile of missions than the A318, the economics of which are nasty. Seat costs of an E190 are roughly similar to an A320, and lower on short LON-AMS/BRU/PAR, etc hops. That said I think BA might go A318 for commonality with the rest of the airbus fleet. However, the engines wont be common, and the terms might have to match the LHR mainline fleet. Perhaps even BA will go with the E series. Its a tough call. The SuperJet could well be in with a shout.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
ZRH
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:42 pm



Quoting Columba (Reply 30):
Lufthansa has 30 E190 on order and options for another 50:
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAndPR/idUSN1831967520070418
Maybe LH will get some E195s, too. I think it is a given that LX will get some of the Embraers to replace the Avros.

Yes, that's what I am presuming. But at moment Swiss flies 20 AVROs (and desperately needs more, at the moment they have a wet-lease of three F100 and some flights done by Cirrus), that means that LH has to go for the options as I don't think that LX will get 20 out of 30 orders.
 
columba
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:47 pm



Quoting ZRH (Reply 32):
that means that LH has to go for the options as I don't think that LX will get 20 out of 30 orders.

LH also has 15 more CRJ 900s on order. It will be interesting to see who will get all these E190s and CRJs as there are several airlines in the LH group (Air Dolimiti, Eurowings, Lufthansa Cityline and Swiss) that all need new aircraft to replace their aging fleet of Bae146s and Avros.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:42 pm

Bombardier C-series?

Was the MD-95/717 ever thought of for LCY?

And wasn't Austrian going to start F70 ops soon? (sorry if someone mentioned it one of the posts above)
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Viscount724
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:12 am



Quoting AAmd11 (Reply 16):
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 11):
If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

I think there's a jet embargo at YTZ.

I'm pretty sure that's why the only aircraft ever to operate there are turboprop aircraft. Jazz used to use Dash 8's, and now Porter uses Q400s.

And YTZ's longest runway (4000 ft.) is almost 1000 ft. shorter than the 4948 ft. runway at LCY.
 
Arrow
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:30 am



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 11):
If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

Perhaps the day after hell freezes over. There would be a political explosion at the mere suggestion of such a thing.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Aircellist
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:00 am

I find contradictory informations:

Wikipedia lists the runway lenght, at LCY, as being 1508 m:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_City_Airport

This forum about the Embraer Legacy says LCY TORA 1199m, TODA 1319 m:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-33188.html

This forum about EDI airport gives 1355-56 m as the A318's TO and landing distance, in which case it would carry 107 pax over 5270 km:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.a...wse_thread/thread/46eef182a906f008

But it does not tell at which weight the aircraft would TO...

The Airbus site gives a range of 6000 km and shows the A318 as being able to fly from Paris to Boston, which Great circle mapper gives at 5550 km, but it does not say anything about TO distances... GCM estimates LCY-EWR as 5609 km.

So, if somebody knowledgeable could please inform me:

how far could an A318 go from LCY?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1931
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:09 am



Quoting Aircellist (Reply 37):
So, if somebody knowledgeable could please inform me:

how far could an A318 go from LCY?

Well, the cargo market at LCY is almost non-existant, AFAIK so that should help distances. I think Rome, Warsaw or Villinus would be about as far as the 318 would get, if an airline had very high J loads they might get to Moscow, but this is just a guess. KEF would be about as far east I reckon, Id say 3 hr flight duration.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
dj738
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:41 am



Quoting Arrow (Reply 36):
Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 11):
If A318s can use LCY, could they use Toronto Island Airport?

Perhaps the day after hell freezes over. There would be a political explosion at the mere suggestion of such a thing.

For those of us that obviously don't have your knowledge of Toronto Island Airport, would you be able to explain why such political explosion would occur?
 
aamd11
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:30 am



Quoting DJ738 (Reply 39):
For those of us that obviously don't have your knowledge of Toronto Island Airport, would you be able to explain why such political explosion would occur?

The Airport isn't liked by people who live near it... they complain that it's polluting their air, making lots of noise and devaluing their property (since the view is spoiled by the presence of an expanding airport terminal).

Classic NIMBY attitude it could be said.

The current mayor (I think it's still him) had a plan to hobble the airport's development in his election platform some years ago. There was to be a new bridge built, connecting the island airport to the mainland... making it easier to operate commercial flights from the airport. He cancelled the bridge, hoping to restrict the airport's development.

I think the city government was sued for damages or something, and had to pay up. To make things worse for the anti-airport movement, the airport's latest tenants, Porter Airlines, have made a real good go of things even without the bridge - the ferry system isn't ideal, but it does the trick and it doesn't seem to be causing any real problems for Porter at the minute.

Funnily enough, the complaint about noise is possibly one of the most spurious... the Q400s flying out of YTZ apparently make less noise than the nearby Gardiner Expressway road... go figure.  duck 

It's often said that the most anti-airport folk just don't want an airport nearby because it spoils their view and devalues their house a little. Needless to say... the airport isn't popular with the current mayor, nor the few people who lives around it... as for the rest of Toronto... ask a few Porter Airlines passengers what they think about the airport. And to look at their recent loads, you get the feeling that the anti-airport movement isn't that big and probably not city-wide.
 
Arrow
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:04 am



Quoting AAmd11 (Reply 40):
Classic NIMBY attitude it could be said.

That pretty well sums it up. The complaints aren't rational but they are very loud. And the media gives them far more play than they deserve. Glad to hear Porter is doing well, but trying to introduce any kind of jet would make them apoplectic.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
alangirvan
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:34 am



Quoting Arrow (Reply 41):
trying to introduce any kind of jet would make them apoplectic.

Depends what the noise profile of the A318 is compared with the layout of Toronto Island, and whether you can do approach and take offs over water.
 
jdevora
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:10 am



Quoting Aircellist (Reply 37):
The Airbus site gives a range of 6000 km and shows the A318 as being able to fly from Paris to Boston, which Great circle mapper gives at 5550 km, but it does not say anything about TO distances... GCM estimates LCY-EWR as 5609 km.

So, if somebody knowledgeable could please inform me:

how far could an A318 go from LCY?

Hi,
I don't know exactly how to read it, but you can find the data in A318's Airport Planning Document

Cheers
JD
 
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zeke
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:46 am



Quoting Aircellist (Reply 37):
how far could an A318 go from LCY?

The A318 would have a MTOW takeoff restriction of about 65,000 kg off a 1500m runway at sea level, which means the A318 would be able to go 3200 nm with the design payload of 107 pax, and the A319 Elite about 3900 nm with the design payload of 8 pax.

The A318 and A318 Elite should both be able to get across the Atlantic non stop without a problem assuming the operator has ETOPS approval.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Clydenairways
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:06 pm

For info, declaced distances for LCY are not 1500m. 28 TORA1199m ASDA1319 TODA1385.
 
Arrow
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:59 pm



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 42):
Depends what the noise profile of the A318 is compared with the layout of Toronto Island, and whether you can do approach and take offs over water.

You are assuming their response would be rational. It hasn't been so far. As was pointed out in another post, the current Q400 operations generate less noise than a nearby freeway, but that didn't mute the opposition. I'm not familiar with LCY, but I'm assuming there is no concerted opposition to the airport's operation, and it already has seen jet traffic (BAE146?) and already has significant turboprop traffic.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
Aircellist
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RE: A318: LCY Here We Go...maybe

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:47 pm



Quoting Zeke (Reply 44):
The A318 would have a MTOW takeoff restriction of about 65,000 kg off a 1500m runway at sea level, which means the A318 would be able to go 3200 nm with the design payload of 107 pax, and the A319 Elite about 3900 nm with the design payload of 8 pax.

The A318 and A318 Elite should both be able to get across the Atlantic non stop without a problem assuming the operator has ETOPS approval.

Thankyou very much, sir!

It would cross the Atlantic... To Halifax, Montreal or New-York?

In fact, and albeit this is slightly OT, how is the range calculated to take into account the prevailing winds? I suppose there is a statistical data... ?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes