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kc135topboom
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TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:25 pm

Does anyone know when the next TZ DC-10 (former NW DC-10s) will be painted in the new TZ livery? We seem to get three of the DC-10-30s here at DFW as troop transports. N710TZ is painted in the new livery, but N702TZ and N703TZ are still in the old NW colors. Red ATA jets look really weird.

The DC-10-30s are mixed in with the TZ L-1011-500s that still come in and the occasional TZ B-757-300. Additionally we get World Airways DC-10-30s and MD-11s as well as Omni DC-10-30s and MD-11s. We have not scene the NA B-767-300ERs in a long time now. Do they still have the military charter contract?
 
typhaerion
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:35 pm

This is no way is a firm date, but you should be seeing the next two DC-10s get painted right around Christmas and New Year's Day.

I am in agreement that the red is not a good look for the birds, and I am not sure what they will be painted to look like. It might be in the same scheme as the L1011s, without the large 'ATA' tags on them.

I have no information on NA. As of yet I have been unable to make any contacts on that side of the corporation.
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:57 pm

Three of the soon to be four (706 will come online this week) DC10-30s will be painted beginning Dec. 11. They will not, however, look entirely like 701. They will get the tail and fuselage logos like 701, but only the red crown will be painted out on the fuselage. I'll pass my judgement when I see the real thing...at least one will be out by the middle of December with the other 2 following.
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wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:25 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Thread starter):
We have not scene the NA B-767-300ERs in a long time now. Do they still have the military charter contract?

They do lots of military work. They just don't seem to go to DFW much. Instead, they tend to go from a non-DFW CONUS point to JFK (their home) and on to Europe and the Sandbox.

PS I don't think Omni has MD11s. They have a number of older DC10s, including one or more that used to fly with World.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:23 pm



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 3):
I don't think Omni has MD11s. They have a number of older DC10s, including one or more that used to fly with World.

It may have been a World MD-11.

Speaking of World, have you scene their new livery? It kind of looks like the new UPS livery, but where UPS has brown, World has dark blue. Where UPS has the yellow (gold?) stripe, on World the stripe is red. World had a MD-11 in here (DFW) the other day with it, as well as a DC-10 the following day.
 
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:59 pm

World is also getting several of these ex-NWA DC-10-30's arriving early next
year. First one in NWA "silver", the second and third in the new livery.
There has been a push to paint one in the 1980's livery, but it probably won't
happen.

I personally like the livery on N803DE. That too will be gone before too long.
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airtran737
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:22 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
World had a MD-11 in here (DFW) the other day with it, as well as a DC-10 the following day.

We haven't had any DC-10's in DFW anytime recently. Our passenger DC-10 (N14075) has been sitting idle in BWI for 19 days, it is off to SAT soon for a B Check. Our DC-10 freighters are on military cargo runs, and they never go any further west than ATL right now. If it was a World bird and in DFW it's definately a MD-11.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 4):
Speaking of World, have you scene their new livery? It kind of looks like the new UPS livery, but where UPS has brown, World has dark blue. Where UPS has the yellow (gold?) stripe, on World the stripe is red.

We added a a white stripe in between the red and blue to "make it different from UPS"  sarcastic 


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FI642
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:27 pm

That idle DC-10 will fly to SAT today. IF it will fly. DC-10's don't like to sit for very long!

Aren't those DC-10F's transiting BWI a lot now? It seems like BWI has become the
"northern hub" for World Airways!
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:43 pm



Quoting FI642 (Reply 5):
There has been a push to paint one in the 1980's livery, but it probably won't
happen.

Won't that bring back memories of the World DC-10 in Boston Harbor, off the runway at BOS?
 
FI642
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:01 pm

The BOS overrun was January 23, 1982, almost 26 years ago.
If one reads accounts of what happened, World wasn't entirely at fault.

Many people would like to see that livery again. Count me as one!
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:09 pm



Quoting FI642 (Reply 9):
The BOS overrun was January 23, 1982, almost 26 years ago.
If one reads accounts of what happened, World wasn't entirely at fault.

True.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:15 pm



Quoting FI642 (Reply 5):
First one in NWA "silver"

Actually it is painted overall base gray not silver from the change in direction to add it to the TZ fleet as N703TZ. It was supposed to have been painted to look like N701TZ but gray instead of the NWA silver mica. The silver mica is a complex and expensive 3 layer process with base gray, silver mica, and clear coat layers that are applied twice each for a total of 6 layers. The base gray layer only is simpler, cheaper, and looks the most like the full mica process.
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:42 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 11):
Actually it is painted overall base gray not silver from the change in direction to add it to the TZ fleet as N703TZ.

I hope it isn't ugly.
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:59 am



Quoting FI642 (Reply 9):
Many people would like to see that livery again. Count me as one!



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
Won't that bring back memories of the World DC-10 in Boston Harbor, off the runway at BOS?

When 803DE was repainted in the 1975-era livery, it got nothing but raves. In fact, Randy Martinez is quoted as saying when he first saw it while it was being finished at Delta TOC that it looked so good he was concerned that the employees would want all the aircraft repainted in it. Actually, the livery on 803DE is somewhat different than the one on 113WA when it overran the end of the runway in BOS.

Either way, I can't think of anybody other than folks in aviation that even remembered the overrun.

What most folks remember, if anything, is the Operation Babylift stuff, and the famous CBS Evening News film of World's founder and president Ed Daly standing with his pistol in the ventral staircase of a World 727 fending off soldiers and other people trying to jump aboard the already-taxiing Last Flight From Da Nang, which was captained by Ken Healy. Healy later flew back to Vietnam on 803DE in August 2005 for the Operation Babylift commemoration, and probably holds the record as PIC of the World ship which, on that flight in 1975, carried the largest number of passengers ever on a 727 that actually got airborne. He also took off from a taxiway with gunfire piercing the aircraft. Great story. Healy also was the captain of one leg of the first Operation Babylift DC8 flight.

Anyway, that's the kind of history that the livery brings back for me. I hope that they maintain at least one aircraft in it, in addition to the "new" livery.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:16 pm



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 13):
What most folks remember, if anything, is the Operation Babylift stuff, and the famous CBS Evening News film of World's founder and president Ed Daly standing with his pistol in the ventral staircase of a World 727 fending off soldiers and other people trying to jump aboard the already-taxiing Last Flight From Da Nang, which was captained by Ken Healy. Healy later flew back to Vietnam on 803DE in August 2005 for the Operation Babylift commemoration, and probably holds the record as PIC of the World ship which, on that flight in 1975, carried the largest number of passengers ever on a 727 that actually got airborne. He also took off from a taxiway with gunfire piercing the aircraft. Great story. Healy also was the captain of one leg of the first Operation Babylift DC8 flight.

I had forgotten about this until you mentioned it.


But, for the TZ DC-10s, will N702TZ and N703TZ eventually get repainted?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:20 pm

How many L-1011s does TZ still have flying military charters now? Right now we have 3 TZ L-1011s and a TZ DC-10 here at DFW.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:55 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
Right now we have 3 TZ L-1011

Then you have them all! That's a rare sight .......
If they're parked together, a picture would be nice ......... *hint hint*
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:58 pm



Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 16):
Then you have them all! That's a rare sight .......
If they're parked together, a picture would be nice ......... *hint hint*

Ohh, how I wish I had a camera. Yes, all four of the TZ wide bodies are currently parked on the DL 5E Ramp at DFW. Does anyone have a camera?
 
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:34 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 17):

Four ? I counted three yesterday morning while taking off, one in full livery, two in white with company logo on the tail. Do I need to get my eyesight checked ?

And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:32 pm



Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
Four ?

I should be more spacific, 3 L-1011s and one DC-10 for a total of 4 WBs.

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?

ATA subleases that ramp from DL for aircraft parking.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:21 pm



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 13):
Anyway, that's the kind of history that the livery brings back for me. I hope that they maintain at least one aircraft in it, in addition to the "new" livery.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't count on it, but I'd love to see it too. The Global management is very cost conscious and aircraft paint schemes are just not high on the agenda. I would be surprised if WO gets to paint their three "new" DC-10s in their new scheme at all. TZ barely got approval to paint out the red on the "bowling shoe" birds (702, 705, 706).

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 14):
But, for the TZ DC-10s, will N702TZ and N703TZ eventually get repainted?

There is no N703TZ. N702, 705, and 706TZ will get partially repainted as described above in reply 2.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
Four ?

I should be more spacific, 3 L-1011s and one DC-10 for a total of 4 WBs.

Quoting BlueFlyer (Reply 18):
And why are they parked at Delta Cargo anyhow ?

ATA subleases that ramp from DL for aircraft parking.

As of this week when N706TZ comes online, TZ will have 7 widebodies; 3 L15s (N162-164AT) and 4 DC10-30s (N701, 702, 705, 706TZ)

TZ has leased a portion of what was once the DL cargo facility at DFW, just that the sign is still there. DFW is now the largest TZ line station and main base for charter ops.
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:30 am

Are there any pictures of TZ's DC-10s yet?
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:33 am



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 21):
Are there any pictures of TZ's DC-10s yet?

Of course, just do search on here or sister site myaviation.net or on those other nameless airliner photo sites.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:04 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 20):
As of this week when N706TZ comes online, TZ will have 7 widebodies

Is 7 WB all that ATA plans on having in their fleet? I thought TZ bought 9 of the former NW DC-10s, including the one used just for parts. That should leave 8 former DC-10-30s available to fly the charters, plus any of the L-1011-500s TZ may keep.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:03 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 23):
Is 7 WB all that ATA plans on having in their fleet? I thought TZ bought 9 of the former NW DC-10s, including the one used just for parts. That should leave 8 former DC-10-30s available to fly the charters, plus any of the L-1011-500s TZ may keep.


Yes, 7 WBs (3 L15s, 4 DC10s) are all that are planned for 2008.

While 9 ex-NWA airframes were purchased, the original plan was for TZ to operate 7 with 2 spare airframes. The Global acquisition of WO has changed the plan whereby WO will get 3 (ex-N237NW (N136WA), N241NW (N137WA), N242NW (N138WA)) of the 9 airframes to replace MD11s off lease as they have a greater need for WBs than TZ. Actually N136WA is currently in work at SAT with the others to follow.

TZ will stop at 4 DC-10s this year, but may bring out the remaining 2 airframes (N223NW, N224NW) next year as N707TZ and N708TZ if the business case allows it. These would be replacements for the L15s as they are now planned to retire at the end of 2008. The current TZ WB plan is for 6 aircraft, but if business declines, then just the L15s may be retired leaving just 4 DC10s long term. This plan is to be revisited early next year so is somewhat fluid at this point, but the L15s will get C checks beginning this month.
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:09 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 24):
Yes, 7 WBs (3 L15s, 4 DC10s) are all that are planned for 2008.

While 9 ex-NWA airframes were purchased, the original plan was for TZ to operate 7 with 2 spare airframes. The Global acquisition of WO has changed the plan whereby WO will get 3 (ex-N237NW (N136WA), N241NW (N137WA), N242NW (N138WA)) of the 9 airframes to replace MD11s off lease as they have a greater need for WBs than TZ. Actually N136WA is currently in work at SAT with the others to follow.

TZ will stop at 4 DC-10s this year, but may bring out the remaining 2 airframes (N223NW, N224NW) next year as N707TZ and N708TZ if the business case allows it. These would be replacements for the L15s as they are now planned to retire at the end of 2008. The current TZ WB plan is for 6 aircraft, but if business declines, then just the L15s may be retired leaving just 4 DC10s long term. This plan is to be revisited early next year so is somewhat fluid at this point, but the L15s will get C checks beginning this month.

Thanks. Are the L-1011s due C checks aready? It seems not that long ago they gor D checks, but I guess with the number of hours they have flown, a C check is due.

OT, does anyone know why NW has an A-330-200 here at DFW today?
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):
OT, does anyone know why NW has an A-330-200 here at DFW today?

It came in from Green Bay, WI. So I think we can guess who it was carrying. (You guys are going to be like the only people who get to see what should be a great game, because of the incredibly weak cable penetration of the NFL network.)
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:03 pm

Alright........ Packers 34, Cowboys 9

It will be the Packers and Patriots in the Super Bowl, again.
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:23 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 25):
Thanks. Are the L-1011s due C checks aready? It seems not that long ago they gor D checks, but I guess with the number of hours they have flown, a C check is due.

TZ L10 C checks are due every 13 months regardless of when D checks are due or last done.
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474218
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:36 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 28):
TZ L10 C checks are due every 13 months regardless of when D checks are due or last done.

Where are you going for the C Checks?
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 28):
TZ L10 C checks are due every 13 months regardless of when D checks are due or last done.

And we civilians, if we are so inclined, can look at the MP-10 manual to get the schedule details at www.atareliability.com It's a pretty darn cool site, and it should build confidence in the flying public to see the details of the maintenance that these aircraft receive.

Meanwhile, I notice that the DC10 has a continuous maintenance program that eliminates the D-check in favor of five variants of the C-check and a 10-year/10,000-cycle S-check. Very interesting.

[Edited 2007-11-29 15:32:56]
 
BH
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:44 am

As always " WJCANDEE" your post are always informative, thats one nice website. Thanks a lot!, both N702TZ and N705TZ checked into BWI today.
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 768 File size: 110kb


Big version: Width: 1004 Height: 753 File size: 93kb
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 29):
Where are you going for the C Checks?

They'll be done at Victorville Aerospace. 164 in late Dec. followed by 162 in Feb. and 163 May through June.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 30):
And we civilians, if we are so inclined, can look at the MP-10 manual to get the schedule details at www.atareliability.com It's a pretty darn cool site, and it should build confidence in the flying public to see the details of the maintenance that these aircraft receive.

Meanwhile, I notice that the DC10 has a continuous maintenance program that eliminates the D-check in favor of five variants of the C-check and a 10-year/10,000-cycle S-check. Very interesting.

As a TZ employee, frankly I am surprised that much of this is public as I don't believe it should be. Maintenance programs are generally proprietary and much of the substantiating data has to be purchased so shouldn't in-turn be offered for free on the internet.

[Edited 2007-11-29 20:05:13]
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typhaerion
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:15 am

TZ does that same sort of program for the 738 and 757 aircraft, forgoing the "D-Check" with workcards throughout the C-Check system and in an intricate network of PCI Cards that accomplish the work on a timed basis.

It is very interesting that you found that site, Wjcandee. I never imagined that it would receive such attention from the public. It is used by ATA to provide data to our Maintenance and Engineering personnel, the outstations and the locations that do the heavy work for us. There is also a lot of great reliability data there, albeit you will not be able to get to it due to the passwords on it. Some information is good, but in my experience giving people who do not understand too much info is a really bad thing. They tend to jump to incorrect conclusions.

The DC-10s are also see quite a bit of time at TIMCO in GSO as they get a significant bit of work done there.

I for one am looking forward to seeing red-less DC-10s soon.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
474218
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:35 am



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 32):
As a TZ employee, frankly I am surprised that much of this is public as I don't believe it should be. Maintenance programs are generally proprietary and much of the substantiating data has to be purchased so shouldn't in-turn be offered for free on the internet.

While I find it really interesting reading, I agree with you that it should not be on the internet. I just wish I had a password, as I would love to look at some of the engineering drawing, just to bring back some old memories.
 
b52murph
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:15 am



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 20):
As of this week when N706TZ comes online, TZ will have 7 widebodies; 3 L15s (N162-164AT) and 4 DC10-30s (N701, 702, 705, 706TZ)

Sorry if I missed the retirement post, but have not been online for a while. When did N161AT retire? That was the first -500 series TriStar I flew on (Jul 06 to BWI).
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:12 am



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 32):
As a TZ employee, frankly I am surprised that much of this is public as I don't believe it should be.

Ooops. Hope I didn't let some cat out of the bag that will now cause the whole site to be password-protected. It just came up in a Yahoo! search that I did a while ago, and I assumed that because a lot of specific stuff *was* password protected that it had been decided that it was appropriate to leave available the more general stuff. Given that anybody who wants to develop a maintenance program is going to have to pay for the building blocks of that program anyway, it isn't as if somebody will be able to cobble together a maintenance program for their DC10s by looking at the ATA site.

I also thought that this was consistent with what I had always viewed as an admirable openness of ATA about things like the contract of carriage and the passenger rights initiative. While those might be available for, say, Delta, somewhere on their site, it sure as heck isn't easy to find. ATA put the full details of their policies (all the fine print and procedures) right there in an easy-to-see spot on their reservations web site, so that passengers could read them. I always thought that that was a just superlative thing for them to do, and assumed that they felt the same way about this kind of stuff. It also shows how thoroughly-professional the operation is, and why they deserve a lot of credit for stuff like inventing and certifying the heads-up approach into MDW (which Southwest later adopted), which has to have saved a lot of money and helped improve schedule reliability and safety in challenging conditions.

The other good news is that only about 200 people have looked at this thread since my post, and probably no more than 25 could give a crap and actually looked at the stuff. It's been out there for a while; I just ran the same search ("l1011 c-check") on Google and it comes up as like the fourth item, cached as of November 7, 2007. So if there hasn't been a run on the stuff by now, I think it's probably safe to say that it's...er..."of interest" to a relatively few geeks like myself.
 
typhaerion
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:49 pm



Quoting B52murph (Reply 35):
Sorry if I missed the retirement post, but have not been online for a while. When did N161AT retire? That was the first -500 series TriStar I flew on (Jul 06 to BWI).

Sadly, 161 made her last trip to ROW on June 17th of this year. She will be missed.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 36):
Given that anybody who wants to develop a maintenance program is going to have to pay for the building blocks of that program anyway, it isn't as if somebody will be able to cobble together a maintenance program for their DC10s by looking at the ATA site.

And this is our theory on the crime anyway. We have to give this info out everytime we have a vendor bid on the work, or have on contract worker perform the work, etc. We would be giving out the password so much to so many people it would be hard to control access anyway. In addition, by keeping them open, it stops people who know the password from robbing the data, re-organizing it, and selling it for a profit. They cant do that when it is available for free to anyone. We are less interested in protecting the integrity that is, while uniquely tailored to ATA, about 1% original material and the rest has been taken from other sources that didn't cost us anything either.

I understand security, which is why a lot of the site, including all of the Reliability data, is password protected. That and all of the proprietary drawings and the like are also behind a password.

I hope this gives a bit of an idea of why we do what we do.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:23 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 32):
Quoting 474218 (Reply 29):
Where are you going for the C Checks?


They'll be done at Victorville Aerospace. 164 in late Dec. followed by 162 in Feb. and 163 May through June.



Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 37):
Quoting B52murph (Reply 35):
Sorry if I missed the retirement post, but have not been online for a while. When did N161AT retire? That was the first -500 series TriStar I flew on (Jul 06 to BWI).

Sadly, 161 made her last trip to ROW on June 17th of this year. She will be missed.

So the L-1011s will be with TZ for at least another year?
 
notdownnlocked
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:09 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 32):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 30):
And we civilians, if we are so inclined, can look at the MP-10 manual to get the schedule details at www.atareliability.com It's a pretty darn cool site, and it should build confidence in the flying public to see the details of the maintenance that these aircraft receive.

Meanwhile, I notice that the DC10 has a continuous maintenance program that eliminates the D-check in favor of five variants of the C-check and a 10-year/10,000-cycle S-check. Very interesting.

As a TZ employee, frankly I am surprised that much of this is public as I don't believe it should be. Maintenance programs are generally proprietary and much of the substantiating data has to be purchased so shouldn't in-turn be offered for free on the internet.

As an employee who does a lot of contracts for other carriers my thoughts are that by having this info on the web allows quick access to those who have to carry out these checks for ATA at out stations as they land at many offline/off the wall places. It saves time on long distance calls to coordination centers and faxes for paperwork. Most everybody worldwide has internet access and it is much quicker than a fax as well the website can be updated to show the latest revisions of the check. Print it and go work the plane. Simple as that. All airlines have basically the same requirements for a basic walkaround check so there really is no trade secrets here nor conspiracy theories as suggested. Example: ATA plane lands at Timbuktu Africa and needs a check before flying overseas to the US, the local people go to the website, print off the pages, do the check and viola! Plane ready to go and the current revision of the check is complete and legal. Simple as that.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:43 pm



Quoting Notdownnlocked (Reply 39):
As an employee who does a lot of contracts for other carriers my thoughts are that by having this info on the web allows quick access to those who have to carry out these checks for ATA at out stations as they land at many offline/off the wall places. It saves time on long distance calls to coordination centers and faxes for paperwork.

Putting it that way, it will help TZ keep their airplanes healthy during their military charter contracts.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:39 pm



Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 43):
So did 706 make it into service this week? I haven't seen it yet, is it in SAT?



Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 44):
As far as I know she did not enter service last week. She may this week, but I will know more tomorrow.

As much as I want to see more TZ DC-10s, I really don't want to see the TZ L-1011s go.  cry 
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:23 pm



Quoting ZuluLima (Reply 43):
So did 706 make it into service this week? I haven't seen it yet, is it in SAT?

She is scheduled to complete tomorrow and should be in DFW this week if all goes well.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 47):
I really don't want to see the TZ L-1011s go.

While I agree, it is just becoming completely unmanageable to operate regularly and we are faced with $ millions in mandatory engine mods/overhauls toward the end of 08 that will likely spell the end. If not that, then a large outer wing spar mod is due by Aug. 2010.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:52 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 48):
we are faced with $ millions in mandatory engine mods/overhauls toward the end of 08 that will likely spell the end. If not that, then a large outer wing spar mod is due by Aug. 2010.

That could spell the end of L-1011 operations all around the world, except for the RAF.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:14 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 24):
to replace MD11s off lease

Do you know which MD-11s are going off leases ?
 
474218
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:22 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 49):
That could spell the end of L-1011 operations all around the world, except for the RAF.

The RAF incorporates all Airworthiness Directives when or before they become due. They will do the engine mods and the outer rear spar mod when they become due or they too will park the Tristar.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:05 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 49):
That could spell the end of L-1011 operations all around the world, except for the RAF.

Well, not necessarily. It comes down to building a business case to comply and spend the money. In our case it will probably not make business sense though technically it could be done. The RAF, as explained above by Carl (474218), can afford to do it as they are a government entity and need theses aircraft desperately. Also, the Las Vegas Sands Corp just acquired two L15s of the ex-Saudi VIP fleet (N388LS and N389LS) so they will also probably spare no expense for these birds and they have the cash to do it.

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 50):
Do you know which MD-11s are going off leases ?

N801, 803, 804DE
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:14 pm



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 50):
Do you know which MD-11s are going off leases ?

The ex-Delta birds which are owned by UPS. The other MD11 leases are staggered expirations out beyond the UPS expirations, I believe.

Remember that World got those aircraft because DL had parked all its MD11s and continued to make (high) lease payments on them even though they weren't flying them. The owners of the aircraft were happy to take DL's high lease payments while the aircraft sat, because the fair market value of the aircraft was dramatically lower than reflected in the payments that were being made on them, which were negotiated when the aircraft were new and desireable (before the bottom fell out of the MD11 market).

In an effort to get at least some income to offset the lease payments that DL was required to make to the owners (among others, Disney and Northwestern Mutual Life Ins.), DL sublet (ultimately) 3 aircraft to World as passenger birds, cognizant of the fact that the leases required return in certain condition. The lease revenue that DL got for the aircraft was significantly less than it was paying in lease charges.

Accordingly, when DL went into bankruptcy, one of the first things that it did was reject all the MD11 leases, as well as all its MD11 subleases (which were the 3 to World). The lessors could no longer get an above-market income stream from DL for the aircraft, so they were willing to sell them, and sell them they did. Most (if not all) of the rejected leased aircraft were sold to UPS. While that was happening, World negotiated a direct lease with the owners of the three it had been subleasing from DL. It then renegotiated a direct lease with UPS, which owns all 3. The idea was that UPS would lease them to World for another couple of years or so, basically until conversion slots were available for them, and that time is arriving. While World was still public, I seem to recall a report that they had renegotiated the other MD11 leases with staggered terms and renewal options pretty far into the future. Martinez always seemed proud about the flexibility in those leases when he discussed it in the conference calls. But the ex-DL leases are coming to an end, and they'll be converted into cargo ships for UPS.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:21 pm



Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 52):
Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 50):Do you know which MD-11s are going off leases ?
N801, 803, 804DE



Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 53):
The ex-Delta birds which are owned by UPS.

Thanks for your replies. I should have known that but completely forgot these three. I was already wondering which of the 27XWA were to go.  Yeah sure
 
ORDagent
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RE: TZ DC-10-30s

Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:16 pm

With Global Aero Logistics being a parent company of three brands I was wondering if it would be to the advantage of the company to paint all the birds in an identical livery except for the name of the airline? This way they could swap metal from one carrier to the other quickly. Branding isn't as important for charter flights as for ATA but I think this would help all three operations be nimble and responsive to market fluctuations.

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