cle757
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Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:40 pm

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ltbewr
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:47 pm

Maybe some type of unknown or undetected flaw in a fan blade? Don't forget that fatigue and a tiny flaw in a center engine fan blade severing poorly placed hydraulic control lines, caused the UA crash landing in Sioux Falls many years ago. At least in this case the engine failure didn't cause a loss of control or of life. I would assume this a/c and engine will be given a major investigation to determine it's cause, to see if preventable and who is liable for the damage.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:51 pm

I think this is the first time I have heard of this happening with a CFM-56 engine.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:58 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 2):
I think this is the first time I have heard of this happening with a CFM-56 engine.

The CFM-56 has been around since 1982, and this is also the first incident that I'm aware of..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFM-56
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:44 pm

I think its a vibration problem that resulted in a cracked fan blade. But the cold section housing is too rigid for a runaway fan blade. But who knows. Someone in Tech/Ops would anwser this for me. I have not worked enough on CFM's to figure this one out..... Sad

Kudos to the pilots for getting the aircraft back to DAL! And the FA's for keeping their pax calm in the situation.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
pgtravel
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:46 pm

I came across some more pictures on this site. Nothing like an uncontained engine failure to ruin your day. It's lucky that nobody was hurt by the debris.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:20 pm

It would be nice to find out what happened to this engine. My initial reaction is this is a one time failure for that perticular engine. It is not a CFM-56/F-108 engine wide problem.

Wikipedia says there are over 13,000 CFM-56/F-108 engines in service. Does that place it second to the JT-8D engine?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:22 pm

Looks like a Drifted Fan blade.
When will the preliminary investigation report be out.
regds
MEL
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flyinryan99
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:28 pm

Have the separated parts been located by chance? I haven't heard if they have or haven't.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:37 pm



Quoting Pgtravel (Reply 5):
I came across some more pictures on this site.

Oh good lord.. The commentary makes my eyes bleed.

Quote:
I was sitting on that engine watching it happen with my own two eyes

Oh Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally?

Quote:
The fan blades shot out towards the plane leaving holes on the engine cowlings and a huge hole on th other side.

Well, if they "shot out towards the plane" how did they create a "huge hole on th other side"

The fan blades must have been forged out of the magic bullet that killed JFK.

Quote:
The chunk was on the outer side of the engine not seen from our view but could be seen while walking off the aircraft.

This due to WNs new Starboard side de-planing policy?

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 8):
Have the separated parts been located by chance? I haven't heard if they have or haven't.

Pretty much 0% chance of that happening.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
DBCC
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:06 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
Oh good lord.. The commentary makes my eyes bleed.

Quote:
I was sitting on that engine watching it happen with my own two eyes

I am still waiting for the commentary from the "eye-witness" that he noticed the engine intake was flattened at the bottom, so it must have been caused by maintenance dropping the engine and SW then flew on to save money instead of repairing it.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:13 pm



Quoting DBCC (Reply 10):
I am still waiting for the commentary

It was ME!!! I saw the mechanics drop the engine on the ground, and it immediately flattened the bottom. Then they picked it up, looked at it, shrugged....and pointed at me as if to say "don't tell anyone anything you saw". Then we taxied across the ...tarmac...and flew untiil the engine blew up.

 Wink
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:17 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
The fan blades must have been forged out of the magic bullet that killed JFK.

Well, the flight did originate in Dallas.  duck 
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litz
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:37 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Wikipedia says there are over 13,000 CFM-56/F-108 engines in service. Does that place it second to the JT-8D engine?

What's more amazing is the wide variety of aircraft variants of the engine hang from ... USAF planes (I'm presuming re-engined KC135s), classic 737s, NG 737s, Airbus A318-321, A340s, etc.

Almost like the RB211, it seems to pop up everywhere.

- litz
 
tcv
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:43 pm

Maybe this is that Twilight Zone episode come to life?

Was anyone carried off on a stretcher? Was it William Shatner?

As a self-stated "fearful flyer," it does me good to read success stories like these. No wild gyrating, no plummets, just a return to Love and a safe landing. Nice.  Smile
 
lrdc9
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:57 pm

Could it be something like the fan blade that seperated on the Delta MD-88 in the 90's (plane still in service). While this did considerably less damage than that case it sounds similer.
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Molykote
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:03 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 1):
Maybe some type of unknown or undetected flaw in a fan blade? Don't forget that fatigue and a tiny flaw in a center engine fan blade severing poorly placed hydraulic control lines, caused the UA crash landing in Sioux Falls many years ago.

The Sioux City DC-10 incident you refer to was caused by a flawed fan disk rather than a single fan blade.

Certification requirements are such that the loss of a single fan blade (and any ensuing aftermath) needs to be "contained" by the fan case (we've probably all seen the videos). Judging by the large hole in the inlet cowl skin, it looks like radial expulsion of material may have occurred (i.e. the fan blade was not contained). This situation would demonstrate why no certification test is perfect and would also represent a condition FAR more serious than the "hole in an acoustic panel" reported in this article.

I draw a distinction between the DC-10 fan disk issue and this fan blade incident because the rupture of a fan disk is generally not expected to be contained by the fan case containment structure (while the loss of a single fan blade is expected to be contained). The disintegration of a fan disk will likely result in the liberation of multiple fan blades in addition to the heavy disk pieces (which, even at reduced cruise thrust, is a much worse scenario than the loss of 1 fan blade just above max thrust).
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:05 pm

Does anyone know what the ships number is?

That did not look good at all. I would guess this was just a freak accident and hopefully when SW and the NTSB come out with a report we will learn more.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:13 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):

I have to agree with you on the commenting of that article. Some of those folks over-dramaticize the situation and make a big deal about it. I doubt the situation was as bad as those people claim it to be. The pilots did their job well and handled it well at the same time.

As I said before, Kudos to the crew for their efforts.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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kearnet
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:46 pm

As an observation, I notice that the cone (forgive me, I think of the correct name at the moment) that goes of the front of the engine (Ya' know the one that usually has a swirly painted on it) is missing. Could it be that it was what came loose? Physics would suggest that at the speed of the air coming into the engine would hold it on, but if it was miss aligned, that might force it off. Just a thought
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Filton
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting Molykote (Reply 16):
Certification requirements are such that the loss of a single fan blade (and any ensuing aftermath) needs to be "contained" by the fan case (we've probably all seen the videos)

I thought this too. How long has this requirement been around? Is it something that has come in since the CFM-56 entered service?

From the pictures it doesn't look like there is an obvious single initial point of failure. The damage seems fairly evenly spread out around the circumfrence, almost like it was caused by FOD ingestion rather than a single blade failure by fatigue. Will be interested to see what the cause was.

Goog thing that fan didn't let go 180 degrees earlier though.
 
continental180
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:37 pm

WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!!

this happened to another airline like 2 days ago, where the complete engine fell off!!

ahh!!!!!
 
Filton
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:41 pm

Actually, looking at it again - where is the spinner?

I wonder if something caused the spinner to shatter. This would result in radial debris and multi blade damage, fairly evenly spaced as seen. I just wonder if a spinner is tough enough to do this to an engine - they are quite sturdy in my recollection.

Also- it looks like it is the acousitic liner that has been punctured, not the fan casing.

[Edited 2007-11-27 14:43:52]
 
N231YE
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:50 pm

I wonder if this case has similarities to Delta Flight 1288

NTSB report
 
lrdc9
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:08 pm



Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
wonder if this case has similarities to Delta Flight 1288



Quoting Lrdc9 (Reply 15):
Could it be something like the fan blade that seperated on the Delta MD-88 in the 90's (plane still in service). While this did considerably less damage than that case it sounds similer.

That's the one I was talking about. I just could not remember the flight number.
Just say NO to scabs.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:36 pm

Looking at all the pictures, I do not believe the visable damage to be caused by an uncontained departing fan blade, but that the visable damage was caused by blunt force trauma of the displaced shielding against the engine cowl when it absorbed the impact energy of the blade and contained it.

Consider the nature of the damage to the engines cowl. An uncontained departing fan blade would cut through the engine cowl. This would cause a narrow gash, verticle in nature. Much like drawing the number 1 on the side of the cowl. Instead, we see large area damage. Too large to be consistant with just a fan blade. There is no apparent peeling damage so it's unlikely the large area of damage was caused by wind flow.

Consider the nature of body armor worn by police officers. When a round impacts the vest, it is flattened and the energy dissipated over a large area. The bruising effect on the back side of the vest is rather large. If a vest is placed against clay and then shot, there is an imprint in the clay more than a dozen times the diameter of the bullet. Again, because of how the material is designed to slow the bullet. If instead of a flexable material like the human body or clay, you place a ridgid material behind the containment, thus compromising it's ability to expand, the backing material will suffer damage when and impact occurs and energy is transfered into it. If the backing material is too rigid, a flake will pop off where the impact occurs. This is called spalling.

The images are very consistant with a high speed impact against a containment material and spalling of the backingmaterial.

[Edited 2007-11-27 15:37:03]
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Spacepope
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:57 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 9):
Pretty much 0% chance of that happening.

Actually, when the Mesa CRJ had the uncontained failure a few months back, we had Teller County SAR and law enforcement out scouring the hills for the parts. Much of the debris was recovered, and this was in rugged mountain terrain. I'd bet that at least some of the pieces in this incident are recovered.
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peteg913
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:40 am

Quote:
I was on this flight also- We all thought we were going to die! We said our goodbyes. There was an explosion and holes in the right engine with something sharp still sticking out of the engine. The plane started shaking so bad. The flight attendant was crying and one was getting oxygen because she was hyperventilating. They were able to turn the flight around and land with no incident but not before the longest 20 minutes back to the ground and the plane being surrounded by firetrucks. A big chunk of the engine flew off and luckily it went away from the aircraft because if it came toward us, we wouldn’t be here. The chunk was on the outer side of the engine not seen from our view but could be seen while walking off the aircraft. There were smaller holes though in our view of the top of the engine. I saw the pilots taking photos when we made it to the ground so hopefully the FAA will do the right thing and investigate how this could happen.

OMGWTFLOLZ!!!!1111 The flight attendant was crying and the other one was on oxygen! People were saying their goodbyes! I guess that means no peanuts from them! I mean, after the fanblade magically turned the other direction and shot out the other side of the engine, why not celebrate our imminent deaths with some WN TravelSnacks! Then, boy, you'll never believe this one..the magic fanblade miraculously came inside the aircraft and made the cockpit door disappear! And guess what I saw inside?! Just guess! The captain and first officer were crying hysterically! And they weren't even holding the steering wheel! And their feet weren't on the pedals! Then I really started crying, and I needed that flight attendant to share her oxygen with me.

[Edited 2007-11-27 18:42:05]

[Edited 2007-11-27 19:02:26]
 
Jawed
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:41 am

 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:47 am

I found it interesting how some of the blades are pretty much gone, specially in the 2, 5, 7 and 10 o'clock points.

I guess its pretty obvious that it wasn't a single blade failure.

Quoting Filton (Reply 22):
Actually, looking at it again - where is the spinner?

I wonder if something caused the spinner to shatter.

I was thinking that too, then again, they could've taken it off.


I guess we'll just have to wait to see what the NTSB says.  scratchchin 
 
sjc4me
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:18 am



Quoting Peteg913 (Reply 27):
OMGWTFLOLZ!!!!1111 The flight attendant was crying and the other one was on oxygen! People were saying their goodbyes! I guess that means no peanuts from them! I mean, after the fanblade magically turned the other direction and shot out the other side of the engine, why not celebrate our imminent deaths with some WN TravelSnacks! Then, boy, you'll never believe this one..the magic fanblade miraculously came inside the aircraft and made the cockpit door disappear! And guess what I saw inside?! Just guess! The captain and first officer were crying hysterically! And they weren't even holding the steering wheel! And their feet weren't on the pedals! Then I really started crying, and I needed that flight attendant to share her oxygen with me.

Dumb.
Unable.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:52 am



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 12):
Well, the flight did originate in Dallas.

I KNEW IT... A CONSPIRACY!!!!

Where is 737Doctor when you need him?

Quoting Peteg913 (Reply 27):
OMGWTFLOLZ!!!!1111 The flight attendant was crying and the other one was on oxygen! People were saying their goodbyes! I guess that means no peanuts from them! I mean, after the fanblade magically turned the other direction and shot out the other side of the engine, why not celebrate our imminent deaths with some WN TravelSnacks! Then, boy, you'll never believe this one..the magic fanblade miraculously came inside the aircraft and made the cockpit door disappear! And guess what I saw inside?! Just guess! The captain and first officer were crying hysterically! And they weren't even holding the steering wheel! And their feet weren't on the pedals! Then I really started crying, and I needed that flight attendant to share her oxygen with me.

Ok, that is a little TOO dramatic. Everybody here knows that passengers are NEVER credible witnesses. They will say anything to get their 15 minutes of fame.
Puhdiddle
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:31 am



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 31):

Where is 737Doctor when you need him?

Why, like he (or I, for that matter) would provide detailed info? (Ain't gonna happen..)  Wink
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
zTagged
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:02 am

Wait.. Let's go back to the 90s for a minute.. BMI Kegworth Disaster was caused by a fractured fanblade (CFM-56, B734 if memory serves me right), correct? I know that was fixed many moons ago, but could this be a simple repeat of a fractured blade?
Something awful.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting ZTagged (Reply 33):
I know that was fixed many moons ago, but could this be a simple repeat of a fractured blade?

At cruise? Not likely...fractured fan blades usually manifest themselves at higher power settings...
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spacecadet
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:13 am

Some of you guys are being pretty flippant about what it was probably like on that plane. As someone who's lived through an uncontained engine failure (on a DC-10), I can tell you that it is not a fun experience. Whether or not the pilots "did their jobs" and "handled the situation professionally" is not really an issue when you are a passenger in a plane in the middle of a situation and have no access to the information the pilots have, nor the knowledge of whether or not the pilots are interpreting that information correctly (as they sometimes don't in emergencies).

It is a scary situation. Uncontained engine failures are major problems, not minor ones. They can - and have - caused all sorts of damage outside of the engine, have killed passengers inside of airplanes and have brought down other airplanes. From a passenger's perspective - even from a pilot's perspective, at the time - there is no way to know everything that may have been affected by an uncontained engine failure. Certainly, if I saw a large hole in an engine from my seat, I would assume there could be other holes elsewhere that I couldn't see. After all, there is no way for passengers to know that a single fan blade separated - all they know is the engine no longer has all of its parts, and at least some of those parts have punched holes in the airplane.

I doubt many of you have gone through anything like this. So you might want to temper your comments a bit about what it was like up there for those passengers, and whether they were right to be scared.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
zTagged
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:14 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 34):

At cruise? Not likely...fractured fan blades usually manifest themselves at higher power settings...

Could've been some strong headwinds.. Anyhow, here's an exerpt from the BMI incident in '92 (Used from Untrustworthypedia):

Quote:
Flight 92 was climbing through 28,300 feet to reach its cruising altitude of 35,000 feet

FL290 climb (depending on speeds), thrust is usually around what, 90-98% N1 on a 737? Cruise is normally (ballparked) around there as well, so I could see this happening..

Edit: Here's another quote about the CFM (For the 737-4, anyhow)

Quote:
Analysis of the engine from the crash determined that the fan blades (LP Stage 1 compressor) of the uprated CFM56 engine used on the 737-400 were subject to abnormal amounts of vibration when operating at high power settings above 25,000 ft. As it was an upgrade to an existing engine, in-flight testing was not mandatory, and the engine had only ever been tested in the laboratory. Upon this discovery all Boeing 737-400s (around 100 at the time) were grounded and the engines modified. Following the crash, it is now mandatory to test all newly designed and signficiantly redesigned turbofan engines under representative flight conditions.

It's not really the first time this has happened, maybe for this specific engine type, but not for the -56 itself.

[Edited 2007-11-27 21:20:12]
Something awful.
 
qantas787
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:02 am



Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 35):
Some of you guys are being pretty flippant about what it was probably like on that plane. As someone who's lived through an uncontained engine failure (on a DC-10), I can tell you that it is not a fun experience. Whether or not the pilots "did their jobs" and "handled the situation professionally" is not really an issue when you are a passenger in a plane in the middle of a situation and have no access to the information the pilots have, nor the knowledge of whether or not the pilots are interpreting that information correctly (as they sometimes don't in emergencies).

It is a scary situation. Uncontained engine failures are major problems, not minor ones. They can - and have - caused all sorts of damage outside of the engine, have killed passengers inside of airplanes and have brought down other airplanes. From a passenger's perspective - even from a pilot's perspective, at the time - there is no way to know everything that may have been affected by an uncontained engine failure. Certainly, if I saw a large hole in an engine from my seat, I would assume there could be other holes elsewhere that I couldn't see. After all, there is no way for passengers to know that a single fan blade separated - all they know is the engine no longer has all of its parts, and at least some of those parts have punched holes in the airplane.

I doubt many of you have gone through anything like this. So you might want to temper your comments a bit about what it was like up there for those passengers, and whether they were right to be scared.

Well said Spacecadet. Aircraft DO crash and when they do we don't discuss on this forum about how everyone overreacted during the crisis on the aircraft. If the Helios 737 hadn't crashed I am sure we would have had people on here saying how the crew had everything under control. Sometimes sadly, things do not work out and we see that there really was a reason to panic on board.
G'day
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:41 am

Going by what Spacecadet has said, Would this officially be classified as an "Uncontained Engine Failure"? Nowhere in the article does it say it suffered an UEF, but it sure looks like it.
Puhdiddle
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:00 am



Quoting Filton (Reply 22):
Also- it looks like it is the acousitic liner that has been punctured, not the fan casing.

Bingo. The fan case is required to contain a fan blade. The inlet/acoustic liner isn't. Which is fine, because for a blade to get from the fan plane to the inlet requires that is expend most of it's energy pinging around in the fan case first.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 29):
I found it interesting how some of the blades are pretty much gone, specially in the 2, 5, 7 and 10 o'clock points.

I guess its pretty obvious that it wasn't a single blade failure.

Not necessarily...in blade-out tests, the departing blade usually takes out a few blades around it. Throw in the obviously lost spinner and you've got enough junk flying around inside the fan case to mess up pretty much the whole fan.

Tom.
 
tcfc424
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:00 am

Some are thinking that the spinner came off and caused this damage?!?

I have to embarass myself here a bit...pilots, I know you don't want rampers screwing with the plane...and rampers, I know you are going to laugh, but after 3 weeks of looking into the engine of a 319 driving the belt loader up to the front cargo door, I just had to see if the "spinner" was as sharp as it appeard...to my complete surprise, IT WAS FOAM! On the Embraer 170 it is solid however...haven't touched the 737 yet though...only buses on my shift.
 
CALMSP
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:03 am

has anyone seen the clip from NBC?? How 'bout that spokesman from Southwest...............she looks pretty good!!  Smile
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:31 am



Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 38):
Would this officially be classified as an "Uncontained Engine Failure"? Nowhere in the article does it say it suffered an UEF, but it sure looks like it.

Did the engine fail? Yes. Was the failure contained within the engine? Hardly. I would call this an uncontained engine failure.



















d
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Its not an "uncontained engine failure" the way the rules and regulations define it.

Just because there is a hole in the stuff wrapped around the engine, doesn't mean the engine itself had a uncontained failure. If you see a hole in the hood of a car do you always assume that the engine exploded? The hood is not the engine. The cowling is not the engine.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:23 pm



Quoting Tcfc424 (Reply 40):
have to embarass myself here a bit...pilots, I know you don't want rampers screwing with the plane...and rampers, I know you are going to laugh, but after 3 weeks of looking into the engine of a 319 driving the belt loader up to the front cargo door, I just had to see if the "spinner" was as sharp as it appeard...to my complete surprise, IT WAS FOAM! On the Embraer 170 it is solid however...haven't touched the 737 yet though...only buses on my shift.

Get outta here...really? Its foam?

Thats very cool indeed
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
Filton
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 4:54 pm

RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:56 pm



Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 44):
Get outta here...really? Its foam?

If the A319 had V2500 engines, then the tip of the spinner is made from rubber. This is a cunning Rolls Royce invention that eliminates the need for anti-ice heating. The idea is that any ice that forms causes the rubber point to flex and the ice to break off before it gets to be a problem.
 
cle757
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:00 pm



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 41):
has anyone seen the clip from NBC?? How 'bout that spokesman from Southwest...............she looks pretty good!!

Yes she does!  cutie 
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
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kearnet
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 11:56 am

RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting Tcfc424 (Reply 40):
I have to embarass myself here a bit...pilots, I know you don't want rampers screwing with the plane...and rampers, I know you are going to laugh, but after 3 weeks of looking into the engine of a 319 driving the belt loader up to the front cargo door, I just had to see if the "spinner" was as sharp as it appeard...to my complete surprise, IT WAS FOAM! On the Embraer 170 it is solid however...haven't touched the 737 yet though...only buses on my shift.

Hmmm, this solves one problem I had with my initial hypothesis, that being if the spinner was metal and separated I would assume the damage would be greater then what we see. (Compare this damage with photos of engines damaged by bird stikes, and the damage level is about the same. A metal spinner should be much greater)

If the spinner is made of foam/rubber or some similar material, then the damage we see makes a more sense (a bird is closer to the physical properties of foam and/or rubber).

For those who may counter argue (Which you may if you like) of the basis that foam/rubber could not make such damage, keep in mind even softer materials will become stiff in cold temperatures, add high velocity and viola!

Another way of looking at this would be to imagine having someone shoot you in the shoulder with a Nerf gun from 200ft away: your probably not going to really notice.
Now do that same thing from 2ft away: you notice, but nothing severe.
Do it again from 2ft away, but this time, use a Nerf projectile thats been frozen to -55F (-48C), Maybe even a little lower to add in the "Wind chill factor": still nothing severe but enough to definitely get your attention.
Do it one last time, 2ft away, frozen, but increase the velocity to let's say 700+ mph (1126.5+ kmh): Have fun at the Emergency Room.

P.S. Unless someone equipped a bloodless, featherless, steroid induced vulture with an oxygen system, this wasn't a bird strike

[Edited 2007-11-28 09:16:57]
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Filton
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 4:54 pm

RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:19 pm

Only the very tip, maybe 2 inches long, is rubber on the V2500s. I'm sure there are some pictures around of this

However this is a CFM-56.

I believe the spinner on a CFM-56 is composite (monolithic aramid?) not metallic.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Southwest 737 Engine Damage

Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:51 pm



Quoting Kearnet (Reply 47):
For those who may counter argue (Which you may if you like) of the basis that foam/rubber could not make such damage, keep in mind even softer materials will become stiff in cold temperatures, add high velocity and viola!

NASA found out that fact the hard way.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!

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