KarlB737
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Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:16 pm

I am excited about the prospect of this new service since it will utilize fuel saving aircraft on applicable routes. For the sake of an airline's balance sheet and fuel expenditures I hope more airlines will seize this golden opportunity. Like all of you I am fully aware of the dislike by most passengers of any turboprop aircraft. However costs are a reality of our times and I am sure that some of the smaller regional cities would rather have this type of service than no service at all.

Courtesy: Rocky Mountain News

Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...loser-to-ok-for-turboprop-service/
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:21 pm

Wonder if it's too late to catch some of the upcoming ski traffic? Perhaps it doesn't take that long to set up a station in places like Aspen or Steamboat.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
Wonder if it's too late to catch some of the upcoming ski traffic?

I could be wrong, but I suspect Frontier has given up on most of them for this season. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they did announce the big one - Aspen.

Maybe.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:56 pm

What exactly is the hold up? FAA head-up-arse?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
stapleton
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:15 pm

My guess is that they announce Lynx service to mostly existing cities, ELP, OKC, TUL plus the previously announced, BIL, ABQ, RAP, ICT, SUX and then add COS with mostly Lynx service (then adding one daily mainline RON once the maintenance base opens.) This would account for approximately 30 departures per day out of DEN (just over 3 round-trip operations per aircraft with an operational spare.) Then they can use some of the E175 to augment longer range markets.
 
tsra
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:17 pm



Quoting Stapleton (Reply 4):
My guess is that they announce Lynx service to mostly existing cities, ELP, OKC, TUL plus the previously announced, BIL, ABQ, RAP, ICT, SUX and then add COS with mostly Lynx service

I would also guess some new stations announced in January and February when the rest of the aircraft arrive.
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:20 am

Surely they could do more than 30 dailys with 6 aircraft on these short hops. They need to rush an ASE opening ASAP. Lots more money to be made flying up there than Billings.
 
N1120A
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:29 am



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 3):
What exactly is the hold up? FAA head-up-arse?

The combination of a brand new certificate and perhaps some issue over the Q400's recent problems with SAS
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
bok269
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:33 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):

The combination of a brand new certificate and perhaps some issue over the Q400's recent problems with SAS

From what I have read, the gear issues haven't been a problem as these are new-build aircraft. IIRC the only hurdle is obainting the certificate.
"Reality is wrong, dreams are for real." -Tupac
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 4:48 am

I wonder if Express jet is signed up for a certain period of time or just until the Q's start flying?
Also, where will they park these birds? I'm assuming they can't use a jet bridge. It's amazing that even with the extra UAL gates they picked up, things are already getting crowded again.
 
flyboy80
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:21 am

I was out there a while ago, and the lynx aircraft were parked over on F9s regional concourse it shares with lakes. Infact If I remember right it was quite the site Republic E170, Lynx Q400, Horizon CR7, Express Jet ERJ, Horizon CR7. Lynx Q400, Express Jet ERJ.
 
ytib
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:30 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 9):
I wonder if Express jet is signed up for a certain period of time or just until the Q's start flying?

Their contract is through January 2008 and can be extended if needed.
 
Brick
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 10):
I was out there a while ago, and the lynx aircraft were parked over on F9s regional concourse it shares with lakes. Infact If I remember right it was quite the site Republic E170, Lynx Q400, Horizon CR7, Express Jet ERJ, Horizon CR7. Lynx Q400, Express Jet ERJ

Yep, I saw a Lynx Q400 on Monday at Concourse A when I took a Continental flight out of the same concourse. The aircraft was very backlit, so I couldn't catch the reg.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:15 pm

Kinda off topic but what do the E145's being flown by XE look like? any pics?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
drewwright
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:36 pm



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 13):
Kinda off topic but what do the E145's being flown by XE look like? any pics?

The F9 routes are being flown by charter aircraft in the standard ExpressJet colors.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:41 pm

Kinda off topic but what do the E145's being flown by XE look like? any pics?

Quoting Drewwright (Reply 14):
The F9 routes are being flown by charter aircraft in the standard ExpressJet colors.

The Xjet.com colors?

Thanks,
Matt
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
ytib
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:24 pm



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 15):
The Xjet.com colors?

Correct. I saw one while crossing the concourse A bridge at Denver a few of weeks ago.
 
tsra
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:44 pm

Mariner, didn't you say it only takes about 48 hours to get a certificate after proving runs? That means it is possible there will be Q400s with passengers flying in them by weeks end!

Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
However, it wouldn't surprise me if they did announce the big one - Aspen.

How many flights a day to Aspen do you think?
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:58 pm



Quoting TSRA (Reply 17):
Mariner, didn't you say it only takes about 48 hours to get a certificate after proving runs? That means it is possible there will be Q400s with passengers flying in them by weeks end!

I said it here in another thread, but it didn't come from me, it came from Frontier, in the article linked in the OP:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...loser-to-ok-for-turboprop-service/

"The carrier expects to being flying the planes roughly 48 hours after receiving certification."

Exactly that happened in Australia with Tiger Airways, who were revenue flying within 48 hours of getting their certificate.

Quoting TSRA (Reply 17):
How many flights a day to Aspen do you think?

Oh, I dunno, I don't even know that they are going to announce Aspen. But I do have a (small) side bet on it.  Smile

My guess - if it happens - would be for 2 or 3 flights a day, much like ICT.

mariner
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denverdanny
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:20 am



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
Wonder if it's too late to catch some of the upcoming ski traffic? Perhaps it doesn't take that long to set up a station in places like Aspen or Steamboat.

Most of the ski resorts aren't even open or fully open yet (no snow). Plus they run well into March and beyond. We are just getting a big storm in the mountains right now bringing 1-3 feet of snow. So, the resorts are just going to be getting going this following week. i have a friend who teaches snowboard up at aspen/snowmass, and there was no work for him around thanksgiving (traditional opening time for resorts) because no snow = no people. So, I feel there is plenty of time for Frontier to do it if they want.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:24 am



Quoting Mariner (Reply 18):
Oh, I dunno, I don't even know that they are going to announce Aspen. But I do have a (small) side bet on it.

My guess - if it happens - would be for 2 or 3 flights a day, much like ICT.

mariner

I would guess 5 to 6 on the ASE routes. The nice thing is that they can meet the banks at DEN, and really make a good chunk of change during morning and evening flights from business flyers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:46 am

What does everyone think would be the best mountain town profit wise? ASE is a given but Telluride and Durango have alot of potential too.
 
CarsAir04
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:56 am



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 21):
Telluride and Durango have alot of potential too.

just by chance i was looking for flights last night from Denver to Durango for next week. Cheapest flights $961 round trip, at least for the times we were looking. I looked into Telluride and it was $550-600. Lynx could really go into both of those markets and hold their own. I believe Telluride would be a great location, not only for skiing, but for summer activities in that area. I just don't think they are on the radar though. I have a feeling it will be more popular skiing destinations Aspen being one of them. Though Telluride is popular, it is at least 5-6 hours of driving from Denver and last I heard, they were getting up to 5ft of snow today. Not bad for skiing.
 
Transpac787
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 21):
ASE is a given but Telluride and Durango have alot of potential too.

Indeed, ASE is a given. Our UAX flights to ASE constantly go full. I haven't seen our winter schedule to ASE yet, but I think we're running them every 45 minutes between the CR7's and DH2's.

A flight to TEX might not be the best idea though, especially if started during winter. Great Lakes currently has the only DEN-TEX service, and is only run during daylight hours as all IAP's into TEX are authorized during daylight hours only. Also, TEX does not have a precision approach, they only have a GPS, LOC/DME, and VOR/DME, all of them with extremely high minimums .....2000' MDA, 2sm visibility...... or higher.

With any adverse winter weather, most all TEX flights are forced to divert.....and would not be the best introductory flight for Lynx. TEX would be best suited to be started in the summer, if at all.

[Edited 2007-12-01 19:51:07]
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:47 am



Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 22):
just by chance i was looking for flights last night from Denver to Durango for next week. Cheapest flights $961 round trip, at least for the times we were looking. I looked into Telluride and it was $550-600.

UAL sure seems to be taking advantage of the route. On 12/14, I count 7 nonstops on DEN-DRO.

Interesting that they have a dash 8-200 flight at 8:55 pm and a crj200 departure 10 minutes later at 9:05. The crj200 gets to DRO 10 minutes sooner than the dash 8 (FWIW).
 
ytib
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:14 am

They have code share service to TEX already, so why would they impact that relationship when the aircraft could be used elsewhere. Also Telluride does not allow flights after dark as well.

It was stated that ski season has not even started yet, however people buy their tickets ahead of time and with a mid-March Easter in 2008 the ski season will not extend in April that much since spring break will be in March for most schools.

In terms of the start-up immediately for a ski area and especially a difficult airport like ASE, while it may seem easy to do it here you would want some better weather for those initial flights to get your operations going. As I heard from someone don't expect the ski resorts this winter as it is just too late at this time.
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:22 am



Quoting Ytib (Reply 25):
In terms of the start-up immediately for a ski area and especially a difficult airport like ASE, while it may seem easy to do it here you would want some better weather for those initial flights to get your operations going. As I heard from someone don't expect the ski resorts this winter as it is just too late at this time.

I'm not so sure about that. It's not like they just decided last week to fly to ASE some day. I would bet they have been working with the airport for sometime now. The lease with the airport is probably ready to go, and facilities are picked out. The planes are the last piece of the puzzle short of marketing the route.
 
denverdanny
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:30 am



Quoting Ytib (Reply 25):
It was stated that ski season has not even started yet, however people buy their tickets ahead of time

I'm gonna disagree with this. Sure, people buy their tickets ahead of time for normal travel... but ski resorts are something a bit different. Whenever we have a blizzard here and it gets national news attention, within days the airport is flooded with skiers. They pay attention to news of snow happening out here and come accordingly, cause there is no reason to come if there isnt snow. And I'm not so sure the people who are coming out to fork over huge amounts of dough for lift tickets/hotel for the great snow are gonna worry so much about planning ahead for price reasons.
 
CarsAir04
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:35 am

According to the aspen website, closing date is mid April. Assume the date given in the article, Dec. 7th for approval. Then give another 60 days to get a station open, that puts an opening of ASE around mid February with another 2 months for skiing. I agree with Ytib, I have my doubts that any ski destinations will be announced, but I have been wrong in the past.
In my opinion, I see lots of aircraft movement. Lynx cities getting the new aircraft, additional cities getting Lynx service, mid range cities getting some E170 aircraft, some cities getting both mainline and E170 service. All this seems to be what Menke is doing with routes.
All 10 Lynx aircraft should be here by years end (at least that was the plan when first announced). This can mean, as mentioned above, adding lynx to existing cities for now, or adding new cities and utilizing the aircraft until those cities are opened.
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:40 am



Quoting CarsAir04 (Reply 28):
Then give another 60 days to get a station open, that puts an opening of ASE around mid February with another 2 months for skiing. I agree with Ytib, I have my doubts that any ski destinations will be announced

I just can't see why it would take 60 days to get a station open. Surely some of the early work is already done. 30 days maybe.
 
flyboy80
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:00 am

The Lynx plane looks very nice, are all the tails going to have baby animals on them?
 
CarsAir04
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:14 pm



Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 30):
The Lynx plane looks very nice, are all the tails going to have baby animals on them?

no. The first couple did, but there are adult animals on them now.
 
tripleboom
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:10 pm



Quoting Super80DFW (Reply 33):
Uhh... There is Frontier Mainline to OKC, so I doubt they would replace a 319 with Q400.

A good reason for that is probably the lack of Q400 a/c currently. With 8 E-170s flying for Frontier right now, No QX CRJs anymore, and no Q400s, the mainline fleet has had to step into some markets, or get stepped up in some markets, to complete F9's obligation to run flights to the future Q cities. SUX, RAP, BIL, and ICT are taking up a lot of those E-170s now and so the A318/9s have to help pull the weight of the rest of the regional city's schedule.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:01 pm

Update to original topic: Certification could hit today.

Courtesy: KWCH-TV

Frontier's Regional Turboprop Operation Could Start Thursday

http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=7451108
 
ytib
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:13 pm

Actually service starts on Friday afternoon (today).

Details here: Lynx Aviation Receives Approval! (by Tripleboom Dec 4 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
slider
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:35 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 9):
I'm assuming they can't use a jet bridge.

Actaully, they can with a jetbridge adaptor, similar to RJs with airstairs that drop down.
 
tripleboom
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:27 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 38):
Actaully, they can with a jetbridge adaptor, similar to RJs with airstairs that drop down.

Yup. Boarded via JetWay in Sioux City yesterday. Watch your head on the entry through that main cabin door. It might be 6'4" in the aisle, but it's like 5'10" at best through that door!
 
quickmover
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:09 pm



Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 39):
Yup. Boarded via JetWay in Sioux City yesterday. Watch your head on the entry through that main cabin door. It might be 6'4" in the aisle, but it's like 5'10" at best through that door!

How was the ride? Did it seem like the plane climbs as fast as advertised? Is it quiet?
 
tripleboom
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RE: Frontier Closer To OK For Turboprop Service

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:43 pm



Quoting Quickmover (Reply 40):
How was the ride? Did it seem like the plane climbs as fast as advertised? Is it quiet?

Compared to similarly sized aircraft I found the noise level no louder than a CRJ, and a few rides toward the back of a CR7 I found to be noisier than the Q I rode on. (I sat about four or five rows behind the prop on the left side) The CA said we cruised at about 24,000. It wasn't a terrbily aggresive climb out from SUX, but it didn't feel like it could probably do a failry aggressive climb. It was fun watching the still training FAs (all four of them!) read off their cue cards as they went over the safety briefing (which of course lacked the O2 mask demo-I was so scared Fox News!) It was also a neat sight for me to see the Q's landing gear retract. I had pictured the gear retracting forward into the cowling, but it was more of a two step hinged process. The seats were DEFINITELY narrower than F9 mainline seat and I guarantee you that will be one of the first general complaints of the aircraft. Also when I reclined, rather than then straight back action normally experienced it felt more like the seat was cantilever in design. That is it felt like the hinge point of the seat was not at the base of the seat. I thought it felt like the seat was ever so slightly jabbing my lower back. Not uncomfortable, but just kind of unusual.