ctrav11
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:03 pm

SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:16 am

Just found out from my travel agent that SQ has decided to pull the 777-300ER from its North American routes in the months of January and February. SQ corporate told my travel agent it was a "financial decision". I had booked SQ 28 SIN-LAX VIA TPE on 1/24 specifically so I could experience the new products. A few days ago SQ alerted my travel agent of the change. What a disappointment!

Not sure how long this is supposed to last but maybe someone out there in the know has a better idea of what's going on.

Respectfully Submitted,
CR
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:18 am

Thats odd. I wonder where these birds are going to be used then?? Will these routes then be used with 744s??

Can anybody shed light on this situation
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:28 am

Ctrav11, I am sorry to hear of your disappointment that you have been transferred to a Boeing 777-200ER flight instead of your intended Boeing 777-300ER flight.

From 11 January 2008 until March, there are aircraft rotation adjustments with the Boeing 777-300ERs which require that aircraft to serve another route. This means that SQ28/SQ27 will be downgraded to a 4x weekly service operated solely by the Boeing 777-200ER.

SQ28/SQ27 resumes a daily service with Boeing 777-200ERs and Boeing 777-300ERs from 01 March 2008.

From 31 March 2008, SQ28/SQ27 becomes a daily Boeing 777-300ER service.

I hope this answers your question and I do wish you a pleasant flight despite this turn of events.

[Edited 2007-12-03 16:32:39]
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:32 am



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2):
From 11 January 2008 until March, there are aircraft rotation adjustments with the Boeing 777-300ERs which require that aircraft to serve another route. This means that SQ28/SQ27 will be downgraded to a 4x weekly service operated solely by the Boeing 777-200ER

Interesting thanks for the info. Where are these 77Ws being used?? On just intra asia routes??
 
avek00
Posts: 3157
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:56 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 am

To be clear, the 77W is NOT being pulled from SFO-ICN-SIN, only LAX-TPE-SIN for the time period mentioned above.
Live life to the fullest.
 
9V-SPJ
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 1:51 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:58 am

I just check on www.singaporeair.com and SQ27/28 is operating on T,W,F,Sat, Sun. This must be the first time in a long time that it is not a daily flight!!!!

9V-SPJ
 
Carfield
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:49 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:50 am

I think the temporary pull out of the 77W is to place the aircraft on the daily SIN-MXP-BCN flights... according to sqtalk.com

But I have to say it is surprised that SQ will reduce frequency during a traditional busy time at Taiwan, (Chinese New Year is on FEB 7), and flights to and from HK, Taiwan, China, Singapore, and Malaysia can be busy...

Carfield
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:09 am

The LAX-TPE-SIN has been downgraded in recent years. Singapore used to run two daily 747-400 flights to Singapore from Los Angeles, one routed LAX-NRT-SIN flt #11 and one LAX-TPE-SIN flt #27.

Flt #27 was made famous (or infamous) when a pilot made a wrong turn at TPE and tried to take off on runway 5R which was being rehabilitated. It crashed into some construction equipment on 31/10/02.

Then Singapore introduced the nonstop LAX-SIN flt #37 using A340-500 which usually charges higher fares than either the other two one-stop flights.

The non-stop has a better schedule leaving LAX at 20:00 and arriving at 6:20 and the one-stop via TPE leaves LAX at 23:20 and arrives at 11:50 taking 2 hrs 10 mins longer. Plus the non-stop has executive economy which has more legroom and wider seats.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
198467
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:34 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:25 am

The plane that crashed at TPE was SQ 006, operated from SIN - TPE - LAX, if I recall correctly.
When you play, people stare. When you work, people don't care.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:46 am



Quoting Carfield (Reply 6):
But I have to say it is surprised that SQ will reduce frequency during a traditional busy time at Taiwan, (Chinese New Year is on FEB 7), and flights to and from HK, Taiwan, China, Singapore, and Malaysia can be busy...

SQ are not reducing frequency overall; they are shifting capacity to where it is most needed.
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 4828
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:30 am



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 2):
you have been transferred to a Boeing 777-200ER flight instead of your intended Boeing 777-300ER flight.

Hey - RR instead of GE!  bigthumbsup 
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:20 am



Quoting Avek00 (Reply 4):
To be clear, the 77W is NOT being pulled from SFO-ICN-SIN, only LAX-TPE-SIN for the time period mentioned above.

Phew, was ready to jump out of my skin considering I am flying SQ 15 on Jan 2nd.

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Hey - RR instead of GE!

 rotfl 

Noone else can get away with that.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:25 am

what a drag! the 777-300 is a beautiful bird.......It is frustrating out of BNE to SIN as well how they thrash the 777-200 on that route...it is always full. You hop off to connect with BKK and getting onto the 773 is just magic!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
SQA350
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:15 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:39 am



Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 12):
what a drag! the 777-300 is a beautiful bird.......It is frustrating out of BNE to SIN as well how they thrash the 777-200 on that route...it is always full. You hop off to connect with BKK and getting onto the 773 is just magic!

But the B773 to BKK is not the B77W...
"No more window seats in business class, sir!" "Any in economy? Yes? Then downgrade me!"
 
albird87
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:15 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:31 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
Then Singapore introduced the nonstop LAX-SIN flt #37 using A340-500 which usually charges higher fares than either the other two one-stop flights.

This is another thing i find odd about the A345.... Singapore have it flying nonstop to LAX but still have two other ways to get there (Via ICN or TPE) and charge more.
I would presume that the A345 would be more for biz passengers but when the other routes have the new biz class, I know that i would rather pay less and spend more time then onboard the 77W!! (I mean for all a.nutters..... if someone said that they would buy you a biz class ticket for SIN-LAX, which way would you go!!)

I can understand using the A345 on routes that singapore have no other services to or where the range is used to serve another city that they would like to serve but i guess where would they do that!!
 
as739x
Posts: 5001
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:44 pm



Quoting Ctrav11 (Thread starter):

North America or LAX? Sabre still shows the 77W operating flight (16/15) SIN-ICN-SFO r/t. So your title of pulling them from N. America is incorrect. SFO ( pending a MAJOR earthquake ) is still in North America. Now pulling them from LAX, correct.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:56 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
(I mean for all a.nutters..... if someone said that they would buy you a biz class ticket for SIN-LAX, which way would you go!!)

I'd take the non-stop unless the product is significantly overrated. After so many years of flying every week, the stop-overs get old at least for me.

I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I think business class on the 77W is overrated. Maybe the regular SQ J class flyers like Zvezda can help me out here but I think the J class on the 744's is better comfort-wise than that on the 77W.

Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
can understand using the A345 on routes that singapore have no other services to or where the range is used to serve another city that they would like to serve but i guess where would they do that!!

I am pretty sure they know what they're doing.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 15):
North America or LAX? Sabre still shows the 77W operating flight (16/15) SIN-ICN-SFO r/t. So your title of pulling them from N. America is incorrect.

 checkmark 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
ag92
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:23 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:23 pm



Quoting 198467 (Reply 8):
The plane that crashed at TPE was SQ 006, operated from SIN - TPE - LAX, if I recall correctly.



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
LAX-TPE-SIN flt #27.

It went from 006 to 027 or something like that

There are also rumors on SQtalk that the SIN - LAX non-stop will be dropped and will go from SIN - IAD instead

Regards
Ag92
 
boacvc10
Posts: 469
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:31 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Ag92 (Reply 17):
There are also rumors on SQtalk that the SIN - LAX non-stop will be dropped and will go from SIN - IAD instead

I searched through SQtalk, but couldn't find any articles readily. Do you have any information on this or a URL where some facts / possibilities are being discussed, please ?

I would think that US-Singapore relations are really so compatible and the number of transit passengers already going somewhere/SIN/LHR/VS-IAD and also SIN/EWR and SIN/FRA/JFK -> Northeastern United states and vv in both directions, that it would make sense to add SIN/IAD direct if possible.

Note EWR is a convenient airport if you are willing to take a long train journey/car journey after you land from a very long flight. (SIN/EWR = 18 comfortable hours), then EWR/DC = 3.5 uncomfortable hours by car, 3.0 hours by train. Or, EWR/ACY or EWR/NYC etc = 2 hours by car.

Any way to put in a request or start a signup campaign to book advance seats on this particular route ?

I just transferred 60+K amex points to SQ Krisflyer miles and want to encourage others also use this method of earning SQ miles from US expenses. I get to go home faster!

BOACVC10
Up, up and Away!
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:56 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
This is another thing i find odd about the A345.... Singapore have it flying nonstop to LAX but still have two other ways to get there (Via ICN or TPE) and charge more.
I would presume that the A345 would be more for biz passengers but when the other routes have the new biz class, I know that i would rather pay less and spend more time then onboard the 77W!! (I mean for all a.nutters..... if someone said that they would buy you a biz class ticket for SIN-LAX, which way would you go!!)

SQ will be reconfiguring the A340-500s with the new business class seats after CNY. Even before that, I'd rather take the nonstop.

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I think business class on the 77W is overrated. Maybe the regular SQ J class flyers like Zvezda can help me out here but I think the J class on the 744's is better comfort-wise than that on the 77W.

Overall, I prefer SQ's new business class (having most recently flown it a few days ago back to Europe from SIN). The only thing I prefer about the SpaceBed is not having to get up to put it in bed mode. However, having done it about twenty times now, I can convert the new seats to bed mode in under 20 seconds without having to think about it, so it doesn't wake me up as much as it used to. I'm happy that the A340-500s will be converted and I hope that newer 777-200ERs will be too.
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:03 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
I would presume that the A345 would be more for biz passengers but when the other routes have the new biz class

No other plane currently in the SQ fleet can do LAX-SIN or EWR-SIN (or IAD-SIN) nonstop. SQ determined that the economics of operating 777-200LRs on the routes (which, if newly delivered, would probably have the new J product) would not be superior enough to warrant prematurely replacing the A340-500 fleet. There are two reasons SQ will not refit the product to its A340-500s: first, they will likely leave the fleet relatively quickly as next-generation aircraft start arriving (and could potentially be replaced by specially configured 787-9s); and, second, they are already on the ragged edge of their payload/range performance and the new J product is heavier than the old.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:18 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 20):
There are two reasons SQ will not refit the product to its A340-500s: first, they will likely leave the fleet relatively quickly as next-generation aircraft start arriving (and could potentially be replaced by specially configured 787-9s); and, second, they are already on the ragged edge of their payload/range performance and the new J product is heavier than the old.

While you made some reasonable guesses, you're actually mistaken on three points:
1) SQ will fit the new business class seats to their A340-500s a few months from now following Chinese New Year,
2) the A340-500s are slated to be replaced by the A350-900s, not by the 787-9s, and
3) the new business class seats are much lighter than the SpaceBeds due to having far fewer electric motors.

The plan is to fit an all business class configuration of about one hundred seats. Due to fewer and lighter seats as well as fewer passengers and bags and six rather than eight lavs, range with a full passenger payload will increase 400-500nm.
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 4962
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:22 pm



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
While you made some reasonable guesses, you're actually mistaken on three points

Thanks for correcting! Clearly I picked up some bad information somewhere along the line...

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
The plan is to fit an all business class configuration of about one hundred seats. Due to fewer and lighter seats as well as fewer passengers and bags and six rather than eight lavs, range with a full passenger payload will increase 400-500nm.

Is there sufficient J demand to allow for decent yields on a very expensive ULH flight with no cargo in this sort of configuration?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:42 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 22):
Is there sufficient J demand to allow for decent yields on a very expensive ULH flight with no cargo in this sort of configuration?

An alternative to flying 400-500nm further would be to load an extra 8 tonnes or so of cargo, beyond that which they carry now. Especially to EWR, SQ always has good loads and yields in business class. LAX is not bad either. Despite about 50% more business class seats, I don't think loads or yields will suffer much because the new seats are very, very nice. BTW, the seats will be those from the WhaleJet not from the 777-300ER.
 
9V-SPJ
Posts: 667
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 1:51 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:14 pm

SQ006 was changed to SQ030 and then SQ028. The aircraft has been downgraded, but the frequency has always been daily.

9V-SPJ
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
Posts: 11619
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2000 4:06 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:39 pm



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
An alternative to flying 400-500nm further would be to load an extra 8 tonnes or so of cargo, beyond that which they carry now.

An extra 8 tonnes of cargo?! If I recall correctly, that's more than double what they carry now! (4 - 8tonnes?)
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:41 pm



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 25):
An extra 8 tonnes of cargo?! If I recall correctly, that's more than double what they carry now! (4 - 8tonnes?)

Yes. Think about the weight of 80 passengers plus baggage.
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:05 pm



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 19):
Overall, I prefer SQ's new business class (having most recently flown it a few days ago back to Europe from SIN). The only thing I prefer about the SpaceBed is not having to get up to put it in bed mode. However, having done it about twenty times now, I can convert the new seats to bed mode in under 20 seconds without having to think about it, so it doesn't wake me up as much as it used to.

I've never flown the old J class but have flown on the new one a few times and actually doing so on SQ 16 next week. I just find the seat to be hard in the sitting position and 'too wide' if there's such a thing but not complaining. I flew SQ 15 and 16 last week and how I wish I had that J seat.  wink 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:45 pm



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
I can understand using the A345 on routes that singapore have no other services to or where the range is used to serve another city that they would like to serve but i guess where would they do that!!

Most business travellers want the non-stop. Stopovers are an annoyance if they go perfectly. Weather happens. Delays happen, etc. So a stopover is anathema to a biz traveller as it's introducing a variable that isn't necessary.

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
I know I'll probably get flamed for this but I think business class on the 77W is overrated. Maybe the regular SQ J class flyers like Zvezda can help me out here but I think the J class on the 744's is better comfort-wise than that on the 77W.

Not sure about new J but I *greatly* prefer the Skysuites to the new F. Gee-whiz features and all that aside, I sleep JUST fine in the 'old' F and the bigger monitor just shows how crappy standard definition TV looks. The seat's too wide and while great for sleeping is awful for sitting. Cathay did a much better job.
 
BRxxx
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:29 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:09 pm

This is amusing, why downgrade a gold route that makes so much money?? Malaysia does KUL-TPE-LAX (744). EVA has 3 x daily TPE-LAX (77W). CI has 2 x TPE-LAX daily (744). Singapore currently does 1 x TPE-LAX daily (772/77W). There is clearly a lot of money made on this route.
Flown on:A320,A332,A333,B737,B738,B763,B744,B77W,B773,E175,E190,MD90,MD11
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:29 pm



Quoting BRxxx (Reply 29):
This is amusing, why downgrade a gold route that makes so much money?? Malaysia does KUL-TPE-LAX (744). EVA has 3 x daily TPE-LAX (77W). CI has 2 x TPE-LAX daily (744). Singapore currently does 1 x TPE-LAX daily (772/77W). There is clearly a lot of money made on this route.

Wait, depends on the definition of the word 'downgrade'. Capacity-wise, the 77W carries 278 passengers in a 3 classes configuration while the 772 carries 285 in a 2 class configuration.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:31 pm

...and the threat title sure is misleading. 'SQ pulls 777ER's from US markets' means they wouldn't be flying any 77W's or 772ER's to the US period but evidently that's not even close to the truth.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 31):
...and the threat title sure is misleading.

It is more than misleading; it is false. SQ are temporarily pulling 777-300ER service from exactly one US market, not from plural US markets.
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:26 am



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
This is another thing i find odd about the A345.... Singapore have it flying nonstop to LAX but still have two other ways to get there (Via ICN or TPE) and charge more.

Trans-pacific to Asia out of LAX is almost all foreign. United has two flights per day: one LAX-NRT and one LAX-HKG, Northwest has one flight per day LAX-NRT and American has one flight LAX-NRT. That is all. By comparison, look at just the service LAX-TPE shown in the quote below operated by four asian carriers.

Singapore and Korean both have a nonstop LAX-NRT. Singapore charges more for the non-stop LAX-SIN, not the one-stops, I believe. At least, that is the case when I pull up flights on their website.

Quoting BRxxx (Reply 29):
This is amusing, why downgrade a gold route that makes so much money?? Malaysia does KUL-TPE-LAX (744). EVA has 3 x daily TPE-LAX (77W). CI has 2 x TPE-LAX daily (744). Singapore currently does 1 x TPE-LAX daily (772/77W). There is clearly a lot of money made on this route.

Point well made, although I believe EVA has 2x day and China has 3x day. China Airlines runs complimentary bus service from Monterey Park to LAX for its passengers.

People forget that Southern California has 20 million people with about 12% of asian descent. Asia is a really big market for Los Angeles.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
laca773
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:42 am



Quoting Albird87 (Reply 14):
This is another thing i find odd about the A345.... Singapore have it flying nonstop to LAX but still have two other ways to get there (Via ICN or TPE) and charge more.
I would presume that the A345 would be more for biz passengers but when the other routes have the new biz class, I know that i would rather pay less and spend more time then onboard the 77W!! (I mean for all a.nutters..... if someone said that they would buy you a biz class ticket for SIN-LAX, which way would you go!!)

I can understand using the A345 on routes that singapore have no other services to or where the range is used to serve another city that they would like to serve but i guess where would they do that!!



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 20):
No other plane currently in the SQ fleet can do LAX-SIN or EWR-SIN (or IAD-SIN) nonstop. SQ determined that the economics of operating 777-200LRs on the routes (which, if newly delivered, would probably have the new J product) would not be superior enough to warrant prematurely replacing the A340-500 fleet. There are two reasons SQ will not refit the product to its A340-500s: first, they will likely leave the fleet relatively quickly as next-generation aircraft start arriving (and could potentially be replaced by specially configured 787-9s); and, second, they are already on the ragged edge of their payload/range performance and the new J product is heavier than the old.

I remember sometime ago, there was much discussion and I know this is old news on how SQ wasn't "thrilled' with the performance/economics of the 345 and there was talk of them switching to a 77L. Is SQ going to receive any 77Ls?

How are the load factors and yields on SQ's LAX-TPE? Do they make equipment changes between the two 772ER and the 77W depending on loads and first is needed on certain days and not others?

Is SQ's LAX-SIN nonstop going out full every night or close to it? I've always wondered how well that flight did considering the length of it and there being no Premium first cabin.

Thanks for your help in answering these questions.
Best
LACA773
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:21 am



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 34):
I remember sometime ago, there was much discussion and I know this is old news on how SQ wasn't "thrilled' with the performance/economics of the 345 and there was talk of them switching to a 77L. Is SQ going to receive any 77Ls?

No, SQ apparently decided the benefit of keeping the A345's until the A350/787's arrive is greater than dumping them and buying the 77L which is a pretty expensive bird.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 34):
Do they make equipment changes between the two 772ER and the 77W depending on loads and first is needed on certain days and not others?

They just started getting the 77W's delivered so no they haven't been switching between the two except for this Jan-March switch which I doubt has anything to do with loads.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 33):

That's why the real Pacific Gateway is San Francisco.  duck 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:14 am



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 34):
Is SQ going to receive any 77Ls?

It's most likely too late. It would have made sense a few years ago if SQ could have sold their A340-500s for a good price, but they were unable to. While the 777-200LR offers good operating economics compared to the A340-500, it's operating economics are quite poor compared to the 787-9 or A350-900.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 34):
Is SQ's LAX-SIN nonstop going out full every night or close to it?

Yes, at least in business class. Even as a PPS member, I've never managed to clear that waitlist.
 
laca773
Posts: 2033
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:04 am



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 35):

No, SQ apparently decided the benefit of keeping the A345's until the A350/787's arrive is greater than dumping them and buying the 77L which is a pretty expensive bird.



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 36):
It's most likely too late. It would have made sense a few years ago if SQ could have sold their A340-500s for a good price, but they were unable to. While the 777-200LR offers good operating economics compared to the A340-500, it's operating economics are quite poor compared to the 787-9 or A350-900



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 36):
Yes, at least in business class. Even as a PPS member, I've never managed to clear that waitlist

Norcal773 & Zvezda, Thanks for the information. I learned someting tonight and find that to be very vital. I apreciate you guys answering my questions. I wish SQ had purchased the 77Ls. It might have allowed them to offer more ULRs with the better economics the 77L has over the 345s but it makes complete sense what you're saying.

It sounds like SQ ULR from LAX-SIN is doing very well. Do they need to offer more J seats?

LACA773
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:15 am



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 37):
Norcal773 & Zvezda, Thanks for the information.

No worries.

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 37):
It sounds like SQ ULR from LAX-SIN is doing very well. Do they need to offer more J seats?

I could be wrong but I remember reading somewhere they might retrofit the LAX A345's with business class only. Personally, I'll believe it when I see it but it could happen.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:01 pm

Doesn't surprise me that they are pulling some 77W's off the LAX>TPE route. In fact, this is old news as when I booked the flight months ago the 77W/772ER sub was in there depending on what day you flew. Im on that flight in early January and it still is showing a 77W for my day of travel (thankfully). I imagine the reason for pulling the equipment off LAX>TPE was for the SIN>MXP>BCN flight which will go daily from the 14th of January...aircraft have to come from somewhere, and the new 77W's are not arriving till February if I am correct, so they can go back to the LAX>TPE route then.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:48 pm



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 37):
It sounds like SQ ULR from LAX-SIN is doing very well.

SIN-EWR nonstop does even better.
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:25 pm



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 40):
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 37):
It sounds like SQ ULR from LAX-SIN is doing very well.

SIN-EWR nonstop does even better.

As has been discussed many times on this forum, from a $ perspective the flight on the whole looses money which is why SQ is looking at options with the ULH routes now (latest I have observed on here is going to an all premium business class cabin with the new business class seats).

It will be sad to see executive economy go by the wayside if and when it does happen, I really enjoy the product...
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2502
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:46 pm

A 777-200ER seems rather small for LAX-SIN.

Is SIN-JFK staying as A345?

Whats the word on SIN-YVR?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
QantasHeavy
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:47 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:49 am

I fly SQ business class on 4-8 sectors each month. While the space bed is indeed comfortable, I would have to say the new J product is outstanding. I am 6'2" and have no problems sleeping or reclining. The video system and the USB ports that turn your wide screen into a PC you can load files onto is simply incredible.

On my last SIN-MEL trip on the 77W it honestly felt like it was a 3 hour trip. I sat next to the engine and it was very quiet. I find the 77W to be an extremely smooth flying airplane. I would be happy to ride the 77W to the US with the stop-over. A345 is a nice plane and space beds are great -- but the new product really makes the flight productive, relaxing and enjoyable (of course, the SQ service helps all of that too!).

Funny thing is that SQ is CHEAPER to Asia from SYD/MEL than Qantas. I am booked in J on the A380 and 77Ws for about $1,500 less than Qantas.

However, going to Singapore on a QF A330-300 is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than SQ 777-200/300 non-ER product series (yes I know that "technically" all SQ 777-200s are supposedly ERs but I am referring to the 777s which have the old regional business class seats... which are no fun for medium-long flights) which they use to MEL (1 flight per day), PER, BNE, and ADL. Although now QF have put some 763s back onto SIN and HKG, so would opt for the SQ 772/3 in that case.

Wonder if/when the new SQ product will go to JFK? A380 via LHR or 77W via FRA? Hmmm.... maybe A345 to EWR will be first new J into NYC once converted. New J product in the 345 would be great for the SQ non-stops to the US!
 
eghansen
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:33 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:24 am



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 35):
That's why the real Pacific Gateway is San Francisco.

But it isn't, except for United. LAX handles more international passengers than any other airport in the US, including SFO, JFK and EWR. It is true that in New York the international passengers are split between two airports.

The service to SFO doesn't even compare.

Example for January:

Qantas
SYD-SFO, one per day
SYD-LAX, two per day

Cathay
HKG-SFO, two per day
HKG-LAX, three per day

China Airlines
TPE-SFO, one per day
TPE-LAX, two per day

Eva Air
TPE-SFO, one per day
TPE-LAX, two per day

Some airlines like Thai and Malaysia fly only to LAX and do not fly to SFO at all.

I wish we had SFO's new terminals with BART connections instead of LAX which I think is the worst big airport in the world. The cramped ticket areas and long lines waiting outside on the sidewalk are truly terrible. The security can take more than an hour and customs/immigration at Tom Bradley is very third world. Not to mention the connecting buses to hardstand international flights, the terrible commuter terminal for American, the miserable traffic on Century Boulevard, etc. If Los Angelenos were not so used to sitting and waiting for everything, there would be riots.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:09 am



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
The plan is to fit an all business class configuration of about one hundred seats. Due to fewer and lighter seats as well as fewer passengers and bags and six rather than eight lavs, range with a full passenger payload will increase 400-500nm.

Very interesting information. But why not F and J, with the weight savings from the Y+ deletion it might be possible? Of course only SQ know what is best economically.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 43):

However, going to Singapore on a QF A330-300 is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than SQ 777-200/300 non-ER product series (yes I know that "technically" all SQ 777-200s are supposedly ERs but I am referring to the 777s which have the old regional business class seats... which are no fun for medium-long flights) which they use to MEL (1 flight per day), PER, BNE, and ADL. Although now QF have put some 763s back onto SIN and HKG, so would opt for the SQ 772/3 in that case.

I know what you mean, we had the oldest SQ 772 in the fleet on HKG>SIN last night, complete with "arctic camo" raffles seats and no avod...felt like stepping back in time!

also saw a QF 763 at HKG before departing last night.

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 42):
A 777-200ER seems rather small for LAX-SIN.

Is SIN-JFK staying as A345?

Whats the word on SIN-YVR?

777-200 ER is not a small aircraft for the LAX>SIN run considering they use that aircraft LAX>TPE>SIN (not a non-stop flight). For the non-stop its the A345 which is plenty spacious.

SIN>JFK remains a 744 via FRA, the A345 doesn't go to JFK but EWR for the non-stop.

SIN>YVR will remain as is, maybe maybe maybe will see the 77W but doubt it. Even with the new bilateral with Canada, SQ won't increase the frequency to YVR because ICN is heavily restricted and they cant increase capacity, hence why it will stay the way it is...

[Edited 2007-12-06 20:16:59]
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
sq452
Posts: 994
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:49 am

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:22 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 45):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
The plan is to fit an all business class configuration of about one hundred seats. Due to fewer and lighter seats as well as fewer passengers and bags and six rather than eight lavs, range with a full passenger payload will increase 400-500nm.

Very interesting information. But why not F and J, with the weight savings from the Y+ deletion it might be possible? Of course only SQ know what is best economically.

I think SQ is insane for not putting an F product on the non-stop flights to the USA...I'd bet you that most everyone taking the J product is authorized by their companies to take F, plus with the length of the flight, it just makes much more sense in my opinion...maybe 6 F seats pulled from the 77W, or hell, if its not too heavy (probably is), the F suites...those would sell like hotcakes especially for a prime market like New York City...

...sometimes SQ's decision making process is "perplexing"
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:28 am



Quoting SQ452 (Reply 47):
I think SQ is insane for not putting an F product on the non-stop flights to the USA...

There is an issue with floor loading on the 345.
Fly fast, live slow
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: SQ Pulls 777ER'S From US Markets In Jan

Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:21 am



Quoting SQ452 (Reply 46):
SIN>YVR will remain as is, maybe maybe maybe will see the 77W but doubt it. Even with the new bilateral with Canada, SQ won't increase the frequency to YVR because ICN is heavily restricted and they cant increase capacity, hence why it will stay the way it is...

ICN-YVR is restricted to 3x weekly. I expect SQ to introduce nonstop 777-200ER service SIN-YVR either on the other four days or daily.

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 47):
I'd bet you that most everyone taking the J product is authorized by their companies to take F

You would lose that bet. Few business travelers are authorized to take international F when J is available.

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 48):
There is an issue with floor loading on the 345.

Indeed, though the F on the 777-300ER is relatively light for F. Is there any chance that something like it could be fitted in either a 1-2-1 or 1-1-1 configuration? I suspect though that an all J configuration would be more profitable for SQ on those routes.