quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:36 am

Airtran is well known for finding a bargain and making money. Why haven't they gone the route of Frontier and picked up a q400 operation? These aircraft can be parked remotely and do not require individual gates, which would really benefit ATL due to the lack of gates. They burn a 1/3 amount of fuel compared to a 50 seat RJ, but carry 74 passengers. They are about half the price of a 737. They are fast and quiet. Most of all, compare the UA/F9 scenario in DEN to DL/FL in ATL. Both majors dominate small to midsized cities in their area, but the Southeast is so much more densely populated, it is ripe for competition.

I think both F9 and FL could do very well with a prop operation.

Any thoughts?

[Edited 2007-12-06 17:42:18]
 
joeljack
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:49 am

It seems like this would really add to congestion at ATL!
 
cumulonimbus
Posts: 508
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 pm

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:52 am



Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
They are about half the price of a 737. They are fast and quiet. Most of all, compare the UA/F9 scenario in DEN to DL/FL in ATL. Both majors dominate small to midsized cities in their area, but the Southeast is so much more densely populated, it is ripe for competition.

I don't think that is where FL would benefit from the prop operation. I Think FL if they ever decide to try ATRs or Q400s BWI would be the place. Lots of Mid sized citys such as White Plains and Syracuse seem realistic routes for Props and FL.


Mike
 
DeltaAVL
Posts: 1525
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:56 am

Yeah, the daily landing gear collapse on a FL Q400 would do the company a lot of good!  duck 

Quoting Quickmover (Thread starter):
These aircraft can be parked remotely and do not require individual gates, which would really benefit ATL due to the lack of gates.

The problem with ATL is that there really isn't anywhere to remotely park those aircraft:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kevin E. Cook



Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:33 am



Quoting Joeljack (Reply 1):
It seems like this would really add to congestion at ATL!

Runway wise, I thought ATL was ok now that they have the new runway, but gates are a problem.

Quoting Cumulonimbus (Reply 2):
I don't think that is where FL would benefit from the prop operation. I Think FL if they ever decide to try ATRs or Q400s BWI would be the place. Lots of Mid sized citys such as White Plains and Syracuse seem realistic routes for Props and FL.

Good idea.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):
Yeah, the daily landing gear collapse on a FL Q400 would do the company a lot of good!

Wasn't that an isolated issue with the landing gear manufacturer? I thought they had identified the problem to fix (if it hasn't been fixed already).

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):
Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.

Doesn't ASA get 2 or 3 rjs or ATRs per gate on the other side of C? Might be a good trade off if there is the room.
 
Falcon Flyer
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2000 12:10 pm

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:33 am

Actually AirTran does have some limited experience in turboprop operations through what was a limited code-share with Comair out of Orlando just prior to the ValuJet merger in 1997 and billed as the AirTran Florida Connection. Considering its short-lived foray into CRJ operations, I'm not sure I'd hold my breath in seeing an AirTran turboprop, although in this business, anything is certainly possible.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:51 am

I think it will be interesting to see how things work out for Frontier. These new Q's are more like a jet than these older generation props. If the economics and performance are as good as they say, some of the majors might consider them over 50 seat RJs on short hops.

http://www.keloland.com/videoarchive...index.cfm?VideoFile=120507frontier
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2551
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:15 pm

Just realized there were duplicate threads on this topic... here is my post from the other one ( so that one can get deleted)

The one place i think they could do well with the q400 is in florida. WN B6 and FL are each jockeying for position and right now the smallest aircraft is the E190. Only WN does intra-FLA flying. BWI doesnt have the mass, or enough open cities for a connecting q400 operation. ATL just doesnt have the gates.

Heres for the Intra-FLA

MCO to:
JAX TLH PFN VPS PNS EYW RSW APF MIA FLL PBI

TPA to:
PNS VPS PFN TLH DAB MLB EYW MIA FLL PBI

Other:
JAX-PBI
DAB-FLL
PBI-TLH
PNS-RSW

Lower fares + connecting traffic would really solidify FL as they key airline in Florida. Even though some routes have service on DL or WN, the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6185
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:33 pm



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
Lower fares + connecting traffic would really solidify FL as they key airline in Florida. Even though some routes have service on DL or WN, the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.

No offense to your idea, but that sounds like a recipe for disaster. The name of the game right now is revenue and undercutting the competition - when it is WN is not going to generate decent returns. The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

As said, BWI doesn't have enough options, nor does it add much value over connections in ATL in the sense of a Q400 operation.

With the way that FL markets themselves and utilizes the 717's, the need for a Q400 operation at this point in time is minimal.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5288
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:44 pm



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

But most of the intra-florida routes that are proposed are not flown by WN.

With that said, I don't see FL getting into the turboprop business anytime soon. Maybe someday when they have a lot more gates in ATL, but that's a long way away.
 
quickmover
Posts: 2142
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:28 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:53 pm



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 7):
the q400 is the right plane for the competition and will allow for more cities to overfly ATL with the connections being available in FLA.

No doubt about it.

The costs that say DL or AA have flying 737s or RJs intra Florida could be cut to shreads by the Q400. Just a guess, but I'd bet the CASM would be close to half that of a 737 on a short Florida hop. The flight times for routes under 400 miles are virtually the same. FL could cut the fares in a massive way, make money, and build customers for other longer flights.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2551
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:53 pm



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 8):
The Q400 against WN would not be a successful venture.

As stated only a few of those are against WN, but could be supported via connections from places like BMI, ROC, PWM, DAY, CAK, FNT, MEM etc

I think florida is the only place it could be sucessful for them until they get more gate space at ATL (not for a while).

I also dont think this is something FL would do in house, contract it to pinnacle or someone, heck maybe they could even get gulfstream to do it since they already have that kind of network. That netowrk would leapfrog them ahead of WN, B6 and DL as they #1 florida airline at least in terms of routes and access.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:58 pm

FL and F9 have differing business plans. F9 also generally charger higher fares than FL, so a turbo prop operation would be more viable.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Airtran Regional Turboprop Operation

Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:15 pm



Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):

The problem with ATL is that there really isn't anywhere to remotely park those aircraft:

The ramp in front of the the former NW maintenance hangar.

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 3):


Not to mention bringing in the hassle of buses to the already overcrowded ramp area.

They could run them from the end of C. That end of C was originally where Eastern Metro Express operated out of. There was a waiting area at the bottom of the stairs and escalators that are blocked off. Right now, they are using that area as offices. Run the buses out of the area in between C-1A and C-4.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Caz Caswell / AirTeamImages
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Caz Caswell / AirTeamImages

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos