jmc757
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Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 4:54 pm

Just noticed on the Jethro's fleet site that Monarch are to withdraw two of their 757s in the 3rd quarter of 2008. The 2 aircraft are G-MONB and G-MONE, their first flights were 1983 and 1985, meaning 'NB will be 25 years old when she retires. The Jethro's site says they are both to be parted out  Sad


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Sad to see these two aircraft retiring, the 757 fleet have been great workhorses for Monarch, and are also a credit to Monarch Engineering as they are still in such good shape. Guess it comes down to economics.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting Jmc757 (Thread starter):
Sad to see these two aircraft retiring, the 757 fleet have been great workhorses for Monarch

Should be interesting to know how many flying hours and cycles they'll have logged by then.

Edit:

Monarch was the fourth airline to order the 757 (to replace the 720s), and the second European after BA.

[Edited 2007-12-08 09:07:45]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:19 pm

yeah, I can see the reasoning. they likely have high cycles and are not as efficient as 757s built 10 years later. i think you'll see some other carriers part out the 25 year old 757s due to age in the near future, as long as they have a viable replacement coming in for their needs.
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Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:33 pm

We discussed this in detail recently. I dont see what MON are going to replace them with. The 321 is payload and range restricted on routes like Sharm el Sheik or Gibraltar. What are they going to replace the 757s with???/ Newer ones?
 
Revo
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:35 pm

The same day they announced they are taking 2 757s out of service with MON, they also listed 3 new A321 on order
 
jetset7e7
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:43 pm



Quoting Revo (Reply 4):
The same day they announced they are taking 2 757s out of service with MON, they also listed 3 new A321 on order

They haven't ordered any new A321's. They are getting 3 second hand one's:

G-OZBP - Ex G-TTIB of GB Airways (cn 1433)
G-OZBR - Ex N586NK of Spirit Airlines (cn 1794)
G-OZBS - Ex G-TTIA of GB Airways (cn 1428)

(New Registrations to be confirmed)

All -231 series which is the same as the rest of the A321 fleet

Also A320 G-OZBJ is to be WFU by end of February 2008

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:46 pm

The 321 wont serve as an appropriate replacement for Monarch 757s. GIB for example, this route is served by 757 and 321 cannot carry full payload from there. Same with some Greek destinations operated on charters.

Also long routes to the Egyptian resorts and Eilat wont be possible with a full 321 from manchester or points North and the 757 can.

Two good examples of the 757s importance to Monarch. they need some newer 757s.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:47 pm



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 1):
Should be interesting to know how many flying hours and cycles they'll have logged by then.

Slightly out of date, but up to 31st December 2005,

G-MONB had accumulated 77319 hours
G-MONE had accumulated 75391 hours

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
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Vasu
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:47 pm



Quoting Jetset7E7 (Reply 5):
G-OZBP - Ex G-TTIB of GB Airways (cn 1433)



Quoting Jetset7E7 (Reply 5):
G-OZBS - Ex G-TTIA of GB Airways (cn 1428)

So, will EZY not be operating A321s out of LGW?
 
jetset7e7
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:50 pm



Quoting Vasu (Reply 8):
So, will EZY not be operating A321s out of LGW?

Not including TTIA and TTIB they have 4 more in the fleet, and 5 more on order, but maybe BA will take them off EZY's hands when the take over it complete? They may keep the existing 4 for the time being, and give the ordered one's to BA?

Not sure on that

Mark
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BCAL
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:54 pm



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 3):
The 321 is payload and range restricted on routes like Sharm el Sheik or Gibraltar.

Don't know where you get your information but the A321 has a range of 3,000 miles, well within the 2,400 miles between LGW and SSH. GIB is only 1,066 miles and the A321 could do the outbound and inbound flight without refueling at GIB, although it might be too heavy for GIB's runway.

Be great if MON donated one of the 757s to Manchester AVP. It could replace the DC10 front section.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:01 pm

321 cannot be got out with a full payload out of Gibraltar, hence it is rarely used on that route.
 
jetset7e7
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:02 pm

I will miss G-MONB and G-MONE, they have been based at MAN this last summer, and have been tech free!! They have been a pleasure to work with!
Again as mentioned above, without the work of Monarch Engineering these workhorses may have withdrawn earlier!
Lets hope more 757's are on the way!

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:03 pm

Yes lets. Can Samos or Mykonos be operated with a full 321?? The 757 can due to its excellent short field performance
 
mhodgson
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:35 pm

It is quite possible that due to the age of the 757s and the maintenance they now require, that is has been determined to be more cost effective to operate payload reduced flights with the A321 as opposed to the 757.
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purplebox
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:38 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
I can see the reasoning. they likely have high cycles and are not as efficient as 757s built 10 years later.

Is this really true? If so why?

PurpleBox.
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Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:43 pm

Dont forget MON 757 are ETOPs qualified and for many years offered transatlantic/|Florida charters from regional airports like NCL. The 321 cant do that either!
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:47 pm

Sad to see that ZB are starting to get rid of the 757s, but it had to happen sometime.

Yes the A321 can replace the 757 on a few routes but not all of them. They may have the range for the longer short-haul routes but can they do it year round and more efficiently than the 757 plus with little to no compromise on payload? Definitely not on the GIB route at least.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 10):

Be great if MON donated one of the 757s to Manchester AVP. It could replace the DC10 front section.

Go one better and donate an entire airframe...if they have the space! Wink
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:48 pm

Maybe with D checks, these birds can be sold to Fed Ex for conversion into freighters. Why part them out, when other carriers are scrambling for any 757s they can find.
Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:53 pm

Talking of 757 disposals, Jethro's also has Thomsonfly's G-BYAF and G-BYAR for withdrawal in April (one of which to FedEx), but has it down as April 07???? And it also says that G-BYAJ will follow G-BYAN to TUIFly Nordic.

[Edited 2007-12-08 10:56:52]
 
jetstar
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:08 pm



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 7):
Slightly out of date, but up to 31st December 2005,

G-MONB had accumulated 77319 hours
G-MONE had accumulated 75391 hours

Probably by now they have turned 80,000 hours, I would say the got their money’s worth from these 757’s
 
mhodgson
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:16 pm



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
Dont forget MON 757 are ETOPs qualified and for many years offered transatlantic/|Florida charters from regional airports like NCL. The 321 cant do that either!

Which may no longer fit in with Monarch's business plan, so there is no need to retain the 757s.

Plus they will have 787s for long-haul work in a few years.
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ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 16):
Dont forget MON 757 are ETOPs qualified

Err no - by no means all of the fleet are ETOPS qualified. NB, NC and ND certainly aren't as they were never built with the ETOPS requirements including extra fire housing around the APU and wiring insulation. I'm not sure about G-MONE and G-DAJB but I seem to remember from my days in dispatch that both are heavy-weight aircraft (113 tonnes MTOW whereas NB/NC/ND are 108t) but not ETOPS. NJ and NK are heavyweight and ETOPS.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:40 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
Probably by now they have turned 80,000 hours, I would say the got their money’s worth from these 757’s

No doubt about it.

I have been told, but didn't quote it earlier because I can't back it up, that NB has accumulated almost 85,000 hrs.

Shamu
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Crosswind
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:44 pm



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 6):
The 321 wont serve as an appropriate replacement for Monarch 757s. GIB for example, this route is served by 757 and 321 cannot carry full payload from there. Same with some Greek destinations operated on charters.

Not really true - in my 3 years of working with the A321 I only recall a couple of occasions where takeoff performance was ever a problem, and I think both times were out of Bristol when the pressure was low. We did have some payload restrictions with the A321 when the range of the aircraft was pushed to it's limits but takeoff performance restrictions - almost never. The Greek Islands and Gibraltar are not a problem for the A321. Gibraltar is particularly problem-free for the A321 - it's sea level, has no obstacles on the climbout and isn't far from the UK.

With an increase in MTOW to 93T and the ACT the range of the A321 becomes far more comfortable with Egypt-UK sectors. MyTravel use the A321 on similar routes, seemingly without any major issues.

Quoting BCAL (Reply 10):
Don't know where you get your information but the A321 has a range of 3,000 miles, well within the 2,400 miles between LGW and SSH.

That range would probably be for a 93T MTOW aircraft with the ACT, and operating in a scheduled-airline configuration with approximately 180 seats.

Like all other airlines, Monarch has had the opportunity to renew their 757 fleet with newer examples, they chose not to. Between 2002 and 2005 First Choice Airways pretty much rolled-over their entire 757 fleet with newer aircraft, Monarch obviously have sound reasons for not doing so when they had the opportunity.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:11 pm

Thanks to Crosswind. I did feel sure those Egypt routes on a 220 seat charter configured 321 would be a bit long for the 321.

I did though read that MON do not use the 321 to GIB as although it can get in, it cant get out with a full payload. Likewise GT never used the 321 to GIB. MON did use 757s though so the capacity was needed but couldnt be done with the 321. I dont recall the source but I did read it.
 
jetset7e7
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 8:18 pm



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 22):
I'm not sure about G-MONE and G-DAJB but I seem to remember from my days in dispatch that both are heavy-weight aircraft (113 tonnes MTOW whereas NB/NC/ND are 108t) but not ETOPS. NJ and NK are heavyweight and ETOPS.

G-MONE is not ETOPS

G-MONB/NC/ND/NE are all non ETOPS

G-DAJB/MONJ/NK are ETOPS

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 25):
I did feel sure those Egypt routes on a 220 seat charter configured 321 would be a bit long for the 321.

Monarch only have 2 A321's configured to 220 G-MARA and G-OJEG, all the rest are 214 config

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:33 pm

Thanks for the clarification Jetset 7E7. I wasn't far off!

The A321 is completely inadequate for Egypt-UK. I lost count of the number of times where MyTravel left all the bags behind or tech-stopped at Rimini whilst doing Hurghada-Gatwick flights with a heavy-weight A321. Even Cyprus-UK sectors were limited at times, where the 757 never had an issue. The 321 also has big issues on airfield performance versus the 757 - just ask anyone who has taken one into INN or JSI. You get the "brake overheat" warning just as you're taxying in, which is trouble for the departure with the gear left extended for any period of time. That aircraft is a stretch too far in every sense of the word. It's right up there with the A340-600 as a lash-up of an aircraft.

[Edited 2007-12-08 13:35:35]
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:03 pm



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 27):
That aircraft is a stretch too far in every sense of the word. It's right up there with the A340-600 as a lash-up of an aircraft.

To be fair, the aircraft does generally what it says on the box.

It is the operators who are trying to make it into a 757, not necessarily Airbus.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:17 pm

I was led to believe that Airbus had tried to position the 321 as a 757 replacement, but they had admitted that it couldn't do 15-20% of the range or performance limiting sectors that the 757 can do. For the vast majority of airlines, the 321 will do the job, but I think that most of the UK charter operators' sectors are amongst the 15-20% of the worldwide 757 fleet which can't easily be replaced by a 321.
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:36 pm

I agree completley with you ZuluTime, so much so Im adding you to my respected users list.

UK charter airlines have been reliant on 757s for years and the 321 just doesnt measure up as a replacement.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 29):
For the vast majority of airlines, the 321 will do the job, but I think that most of the UK charter operators' sectors are amongst the 15-20% of the worldwide 757 fleet which can't easily be replaced by a 321.

Agreed.

Airbus marketed the A321 as typical two-class seating capacity 185 seats with 16 in first class and 169 in economy, while the A321 single-class configuation would seat 199 passengers with 32" pitch.

The operating range offerred was up to 3,000 nm./5,600 km with the maximum passenger payload.

You are so right that for most carriers, it does exactly what is expected of it.

But to go from 199 seats to 220, operating at high weights and on long missions or out of "challenging" airfields for charter carriers was a requirement not engineered into the A321, unlike the 757 which had such operations on the table when Boeing designed it.

And I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in charter config., the A321 is only narrowly behind the B753 when it boils down to seat mile costs.

The 757 and the A321 are both fine aircraft, but, just as the 757 gets abused on 35 minute BA domestics, the A321 also struggles to achieve what is expected of it when carriers place it on routes it wasn't really intended for.

Shamu

[Edited 2007-12-08 14:49:26]
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:53 pm



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 27):
Even Cyprus-UK sectors were limited at times, where the 757 never had an issue. The 321 also has big issues on airfield performance versus the 757 - just ask anyone who has taken one into INN or JSI.

I don't ever recall any operational issues with LOWI or LGSK with the A321. It's true that Cyprus-UK sectors occasionally required bags to be left behind when headwinds were particularly strong, but that was always due to the fact that FCA had the ACT removed on all A321s (89T and 93T versions) to save fuel costs from the overall weight reduction. The reasoning was that the fuel savings from the weight reduction were more than outweighed by the occasional performance restriction. The performance problem from those flights always arose from the fact that you'd reach max fuel (18.9T IIRC) well before MTOW, so even though you were nowhere near MTOW, you couldn't load enough fuel to get home without the ACT.

As for the 757 "never having an issue" with Cyprus-UK flights, it depends on the individual aircraft. Some with the lower 104326kg MTOW would sometimes struggle, whereas the 108T and 113T were always fine.One of the most important tasks of an ops department is to allocate the most appropriate aircraft to each flight! By the same token the airline has to get the right balance of heavyweight aircraft - these always changed seasonally, as there is a greater demand for heavyweights in winter as the flying programme changes coupled with the Canadian leases.

The 757 is a fantastic aircraft, and I prefer it to the A321 from an ops perspective, but at the same time the problems with the A321 are far overstated on these forums, while the efficiency advantages underplayed!
Whether we like it or not, regarless of year of maufacture, the 757 is becoming an old lady!

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CROSSWIND
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:05 pm

Old but in a revival mode. Ask US carriers. UK charter airlines will struggle to find a succesor to the 757.
 
ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:28 pm

The problem with the 757 is that it is destined to become an even older aircraft because nothing can replace it for a lot of the missions that it undertakes. Not many carriers had 757s with MTOWs below 108t - I think quite a few Thomsonfly and FCA aircraft were operated with MTOWs below 108 but that was for weight-saving on Eurocontrol charges rather than because of structural limitations relating to the aircraft's build. The most recent 757s go up to 115t which give them awesome capability when you combine the 34.4t max fuel load with a full payload. The 321 max fuel load isn't a patch on that, even with the aux tanks.

The aux tanks are something of a blessing and a curse in equal measure. You need the ACT to fly Egypt/Cyprus-UK non-stop with a full charter load of 220, but you then don't have enough room in the holds for all of the bags due to the extra fuel tank taking out part of the hold space. It's a nasty combination and I remember quite a few tight squeezes to get all of the bags on the 321 - much more than on the 757 with a full 233 or 235.
 
ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:33 pm

PS - the answer is for Airbus to offer an A322. Existing A321 fuselage (there's nothing wrong with the 321 fuselage) but bigger wing. The larger wing would increase lift to help performance at marginal airfields and also increase fuel tankage quite significantly so that you could really rival the 757 for performance - both at airfield level and on sector length.

I reckon it would get Airbus another 800+ orders over 10 years though - one to replace every 757 still going. Of the top 20 757 operators, eight (who account for more than 25% of the 757s still in pax service) are also A320/321 operators. Just think of the savings that they could achieve with a 757 replacement with crew and engineering commonality with the rest of their fleets.

I'll stop dreaming now.

[Edited 2007-12-08 15:38:19]
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:37 pm

I think an A332 would be a good idea and bring it on fast. Larger wing and more powerful powerplants to increase payload, field performance and range. Also the hold needs to be bigger. IT charters have a lot of luggage with everyone going on hols with suitcases, buggies etc etc.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:54 pm



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 36):
I think an A332 would be a good idea and bring it on fast. Larger wing and more powerful powerplants to increase payload, field performance and range. Also the hold needs to be bigger. IT charters have a lot of luggage with everyone going on hols with suitcases, buggies etc etc.

So now we're going to throw millions into a redesign for what is, essentially, the small market of UK charter carriers...? They afterall are the only airlines, with perhaps the exception of US, who have tried to place the A321 on routes it wasn't designed or intended for.

Larger wing and more powerful powerplants = a whole redesign of wing, box and new main undercarriage.

If you want a bigger hold, you need to stretch the fuselage, because there is NO unused space below in an A321.

Stretch the fuselage, and the new gear probably also needs to be lengthened.

All those changes mean a whole new certification programme. $$$$$$$$$$$

Millions, upon millions upon millions would be poured down the drain, because right around the corner will be the next generation narrow bodies, with CFRP, new flight decks and all sorts of bells and whistles....as well as the fact that some carriers will be using their 787s on what have previously been 757 missions anyway.

You're asking Airbus to develop what would be an obsolete aircraft before it even came off the designers' table!

So, do Airbus pump millions into an albatross, or do we just bear the pain of seeing the 757s slowly bow out whilst we wait impatiently as both Boeing and Airbus prepare to bring their exciting next generation offerrings to the table?

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:58 pm

I was with ZuluTime in dreaming! But really, there ought to be a 757 replacement available. US airlines demand them for transatlantic and IT carriers for sunspots.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:09 am



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 38):
But really, there ought to be a 757 replacement available.

I couldn't agree more !!  highfive 

But I do think it's just around the corner.

I have a feeling (and many have flamed me in the past for it, so feel free !), that the 787 won't necessarily be the game changing aircraft some people would have us believe.

In what context?

In the sense that I don't see all of a sudden new routes opening up with the 787 like GLA-LAX or LPL-SIN. It simply ain't gonna happen!

I think the reality is that the 787 will be "abused" in the same way the 757 was, and whatever route it gets put on, the economics will put the 757 in the shade, so the airlines still win with the new aircraft. The 787 will be used by the carriers we're referring to as a 757 replacement as well as a replacement for their widebodies until (and if) a true replacement to the 757 is ever offerred, I am sure.

Time will tell if I'm right or not.

Shamu


 highfive 
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
mhodgson
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:13 am



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 38):
I was with ZuluTime in dreaming! But really, there ought to be a 757 replacement available. US airlines demand them for transatlantic and IT carriers for sunspots.

Perhaps why the 787 has been built?
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Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:16 am

A widebody to replace a single aisle aircraft. Think the 787 may be too much capacity for some airlines, especially configured in an all charter configuration.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:20 am



Quoting Orion737 (Reply 42):
A widebody to replace a single aisle aircraft. Think the 787 may be too much capacity for some airlines, especially configured in an all charter configuration.

They said that when Britannia (sigh) went from an all B737-200 operator to operating the B762 and B757. The nay-sayers said they'd lose market share and were throwing away their niche routes.

History has an awful habit of repeating itself and occassionally proving the pundits wrong !!!

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:25 am

But when they did switch to the 757, they often had to subcharter smaller aircraft such as the 320 and regional airports were served with Spanish/Turkish charter carriers as the 757 was so much larger then the 732. They had a need for a smaller aircfraft, maybe hence the 738 order.
 
ZuluTime
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:29 am

The 787 is way too big for a 757 replacement for most operators with the 757.

And I don't agree that it would need a fuselage redesign. The 321 is OK as long as you don't have the aux centre tanks - if you can get more fuel in the wing, it would get rid of the need for the ACT.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:34 am

Absolutely, if Britannia can be faulted for anything, it would be for the fact that they dumped their 130 seaters too quickly. The market wasn't ready for 757s throughout the system.

That's one reason why your namesake did so well with 733s and was ultimately absorbed into Britannia (I was on a jump seat ride with a mate who was a captain for Orion when he opened his first pay slip with Britannia written on it !)

The market is constantly evolving and developing though, and demand is insatiable.

I don't think using the 787 on shorter haul charters tomorrow will be any different to the scandinavian charterers who used the A300s many years ago or the likes of Laker and Caledonian Charter who used DC10s.

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:37 am

High density holiday routes and longer hauls would suit the 787 but flights to small Greek airfields and winter sun destinations, I think it will be too large to replace the 757 in charter service.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:38 am



Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 45):
The 787 is way too big for a 757 replacement for most operators with the 757.

But a 787-8 will seat 250 in one class config., won't it not?

Is a 15 seat jump really a jump too far ??

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
Orion737
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RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:49 am

Ask the charter airlines or tour ops. Will the 787 carry more than 250 on charter airlines, particularly UK ones! many UK airlines wouldnt buy the slightly larger 753, so it does seem every seat/increase in size is important.
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

RE: Monarch To Start Retiring 757s

Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:08 am



Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 48):
Is a 15 seat jump really a jump too far ??

Yes when you're already struggling because 233 is a bit too much. 220 on the A321 is actually a better fit for today's market, assuming that you can fly the 321 with a full 220 and aren't payload restricted at huge cost!!