B742
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NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:39 pm

Just received an email from Flying Blue to say that KLM/NWA will begin a joint venture from London Heathrow.

Quote:

Northwest Airlines, in cooperation with its joint venture partner, KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, is pleased to announce three new daily non stop flights from London Heathrow Airport to Detroit, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Seattle.

Beginning in the spring of 2008 and operating from London Heathrow Terminal 4, KLM Northwest's new non stop services will conveniently connect London Heathrow with more than 250 destinations throughout the United States for customers travelling via Northwest's Detroit and Minneapolis/St. Paul hubs, and Seattle gateway.

World Business Class travellers can enjoy an array of features including 60 inches of space between seats, 110-volt personal laptop power port, cycling lumbar support, a six-way adjustable headrest and four seat-back storage pockets. An on demand in-flight entertainment (IFE) system is available in both cabins, offering travellers a choice of 40 movies, four short-subject video programs, 56 different audio selections, six games, shopping and in-flight information.

Effective 30 March (first inbound flight commences 29 March):
Minneapolis/St Paul
NW 103 London Heathrow/Minneapolis 1425/1725
NW 104 Minneapolis/London Heathrow 2145/1215 +1

Effective 2 May (first inbound flight commences 1 May):
Detroit
NW 101 London Heathrow/Detroit 0850/1230
NW 102 Detorit/ London Heathrow 1750/0705 +1

Effective 2 June (first inbound flight commences 1 June):
Seattle
NW 105 London Heathrow/Seattle 1830/2055
NW 106 Seattle/London Heathrow 2220/1615 +1

In addition to the London Heathrow services, Northwest will also continue to operate daily round-trip flights between London Gatwick and Detroit, giving customers two great options from the South East. All flights are now on sale.

More flexibility. More opportunity to earn Flying Blue Miles from London Heathrow!

KLM and Northwest Airlines have also joined forces to offer you more destinations than ever to the USA from London Heathrow, giving you more opportunity to earn Flying Blue Miles.

To find out more, or to book flights, visit the KLM website at www.klm.com.

Rob!  wave 
 
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DocLightning
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:44 pm

Anyone know what planes they're using for these routes?

I would suppose it's a 330 given the IFE in both classes.
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B742
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Interesting to note that LGW will retain DTW flights. However will they continue to be A333 or will they move to 757 flights?

I assume DTW/MSP will be the A333 with SEA being the A332 into Heathrow?

Rob!  wave 
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Good news to hear.

This helps to explain some of the shuffle in NW's Trans-Atlantic fleet for next summer, hence why we will see a NW 744 & KLM pick up one of the DTW-AMS flights to allow for the A330's to pick up the net-new TATL flying next summer which will be PDX-AMS, SEA-LHR, MSP-CDG, and DFW-AMS (KLM)

Also explains that the focus next summer will be on the additional A330 flying, and table the additional 757 flying for another year.
 
HUYfan
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:03 pm

Does this mean an end to Eindhoven or Rotterdam flights?

Regards

Mike
 
United777
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:20 pm

WOW!! Great for SEA. I always thought it made sense for NW to create SEA a focus city for international flights. Hopefully the A333 will be used than switched to the 787.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:26 pm



Quoting United777 (Reply 5):
Hopefully the A333 will be used than switched to the 787.

Does the A330-300 have the range for SEA-LHR ? Just assumed it would be a -200 series.
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azjubilee
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:33 pm

Wow, nothing like trumping the press conference in Seattle. I bet we'll find out the equipment details when the announcement is made stateside. If I had to predict though, 333s for MSP/DTW-LHR. 332 for SEA-LHR and 75A for DTW-LGW. Though being a shorter flight from SEA-LHR than SEA-AMS we just might see a 333 on the new LHR service. I would have thought MSP would still continue to see LGW service, but that might have proven to be too much capasity to London, even if it were on a 757.

Also, interesting to note, the flight numbers are no longer the traditional double digits. I had a feeling that when they renumbered all the PHX flights that used to be in the low 100s, something was up. There are still a handful of double digit flight numers available, but I suspect that will go for Asia expansion. I wouldn't rule out more 75A flying however.


AZJ
 
roseflyer
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:35 pm

I think this might be the final straw that sends a lot of UA's frequent flyer pool in SEA over to NW. There was an announcement expected about a new international flight from SEA and now we know. Two airlines competing to LHR. That's good news. In a year SEA will have doubled its number of flights to Europe.

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 6):
Does the A330-300 have the range for SEA-LHR ? Just assumed it would be a -200 series.

NW has operated SEA-AMS with the A333, but I've heard that there were weight restrictions sometimes. SEA-NRT/AMS/LHR are all about the same length with SEA-AMS being the longest. Some A330 maintenance is done in SEA as a plane sits in the hangar for about 24 hours each day, so it wouldn't be surprising to see more A330s rotating through.
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jacobin777
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Nice to see some more A330's at SEA.. bigthumbsup 

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burnsie28
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:58 pm



Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 6):
Does the A330-300 have the range for SEA-LHR ? Just assumed it would be a -200 series.

Yes, in fact it did use to fly SEA-AMS for a short time.
 
burnsie28
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:06 pm



Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
This helps to explain some of the shuffle in NW's Trans-Atlantic fleet for next summer, hence why we will see a NW 744 & KLM pick up one of the DTW-AMS flights to allow for the A330's to pick up the net-new TATL flying next summer which will be PDX-AMS, SEA-LHR, MSP-CDG, and DFW-AMS (KLM)

Thats true, now it looks as if NW could use more A330's already. There are still a lot of untapped cities they could make work. Such as Munich, Madrid, Rome (Again), Moscow, etc.

Quoting HUYfan (Reply 4):
Does this mean an end to Eindhoven or Rotterdam flights?

Quite possibly, but remember NW and KL share transatlantic revenue 50/50 so the LHR transatlantic routes are likely to make a lot more money. But this raises the question, could they move Eindhoven and Rotterdam to LCY?
 
MAH4546
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:14 pm

Seattle-Europe is getting overcrowded. Yields are going to start to suffer, and somebody is going to bite, although I don't think it will be NW's LHR route.
a.
 
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:24 pm



Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
NW 105 London Heathrow/Seattle 1830/2055
NW 106 Seattle/London Heathrow 2220/1615 +1

Is it just me, but these times are awful, figuring customs time in SEA, won't connections be limted?
 
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Vasu
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:28 pm

Interesting that they're also keeping LGW-DTW! Will there be enough demand from LON (bear in mind BA ending direct flights), or will we see mostly connecting passengers?
 
kl591
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:31 pm

What slots will KLM be giving up at LHR to start these flights, or is NW getting the slots from elsewhere?

KL591
 
threepoint
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:36 pm

Well that answers the questions in this thread: Seattle New International Service? (by Alexinwa Dec 7 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Many posters had this advance info, and the speculation is that SAS and/or BA may see yields from Seattle fall as a result. We shall see.
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ANother
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:55 pm



Quoting HUYfan (Reply 4):
Does this mean an end to Eindhoven or Rotterdam flights?

See my post here.
 
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:59 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Is it just me, but these times are awful, figuring customs time in SEA, won't connections be limted?

But what connections would they try to capture? The Hawaii flights are not well-timed to connect to/from Europe even if the flight arrived SEA earlier.
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ANother
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:03 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
But what connections would they try to capture?

BLI? IIRC Skybus has identified a large market there  duck 
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:07 pm



Quoting ANother (Reply 19):
BLI? IIRC Skybus has identified a large market there

Geez, I forgot all about BLI. What's wrong with me? Perhaps NW should purchase some 380s to dedicate to SEA-BLI (along with MKE-ORD, PGD-RSW, and SGJ-JAX).
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting Vasu (Reply 14):
Interesting that they're also keeping LGW-DTW! Will there be enough demand from LON (bear in mind BA ending direct flights), or will we see mostly connecting passengers?

Im surprised they are keeping Gatwick. NW is the one airline I expected to leave Gatwick completely. However I presume they must have a fair few passengers for whom Gatwick is their prefered choice (such as those living or working in South London) and can therefore justify keeping Gatwick as well
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MAH4546
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:12 pm



Quoting Threepoint (Reply 16):

Many posters had this advance info, and the speculation is that SAS and/or BA may see yields from Seattle fall as a result. We shall see.

That's not speculation. Other airlines will see yields fall in Seattle. It will happen naturally. The speculation is how far they will fall.
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roseflyer
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:16 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Seattle-Europe is getting overcrowded. Yields are going to start to suffer, and somebody is going to bite, although I don't think it will be NW's LHR route.

I'm thinking that we'll be seeing BA reduce some frequency because of the competition. We'll probably see them drop to a single daily flight. With the number of people that fly to ORD/JFK/DTW/PHL and other European gateways for connections, I don't think that the routes will suffer too much. However load factors will be low in the winter. Hopefully yields will stay up with the steady supply of business traffic on the route.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Is it just me, but these times are awful, figuring customs time in SEA, won't connections be limted?

I'm guessing the flight will be almost exclusively O/D. NW has nothing to connect to, and AS already codeshares with BA, so I don't think they are too worried about them. Connecting traffic could boost the load factor some, but I'm guessing that NW already has a good feel for how much the AS feed helps since they've operated the SEA-AMS route for years.
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Stitch
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:20 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 13):
Is it just me, but these times are awful, figuring customs time in SEA, won't connections be limted?

SEA is AS' main hub and they partner with NW and KL (as well, ironically, BA), so this new route may be depending on AS and QX connections to help support it.
 
AlexPorter
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:25 pm

There could be some short-haul late evening Alaska/Horizon connections in that area. However, I think most of it will be O&D as SkyTeam is going to be co-located at LHR which should make for more connections there. So more people will be flying (Europe/Africa/MidEast)-LHR-SEA than LHR-SEA-(West Coast).
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threepoint
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:26 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
That's not speculation. Other airlines will see yields fall in Seattle. It will happen naturally. The speculation is how far they will fall.

That is speculation. Other airlines will likely see yields fall in Seattle. It may happen naturally. The speculation is whether or how far they may fall.

I'm sure that's what you intended to write, unless you are speaking to us from the future. Ever heard of market stimulation? Sure, the established carriers serving Europe from SEA will likely see a smaller slice of the pie, but the pie may also grow. Nothing in life is certain, and commercial aviation is often among the least predictable industries.

[Edited 2007-12-10 10:31:49]
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:27 pm



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
Nice to see some more A330's at SEA..

Yes, to point out the obvious, NW is really getting serious about SEA. SEA-China is probably in the cards.
 
rwsea
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:29 pm

Good to see NW's plans to LHR. I'm still not convinced LHR will be the goldmine that everyone thinks it will be, but more power to 'em.

Even though I would prefer that NWadded service to Asia (e.g. KIX or HKG), I'm still encouraged to see NW adding more international service from SEA. This gives me a little hope that SEA might yet get some expansion when the 787s. With all the cutbacks in recent years, I thought that NW was slowly abandoning SEA.

With that said, MAH is right that the SEA-market is getting really crowded. I think we'll see BA trim frequencies and maybe the loss of SK. With respect to LHR, I think BA will still be the better choice for premium pax as their business class is far superior to WBC. For coach passengers though, I'd opt for NW given the 2-4-2 seating, full miles on AS (vs 25% on BA), and the ability to select a seat in advance.

I just hope BA keeps the 747s on SEA-LHR through the Spring - I'm booked in the new J class and am looking forward to trying it out!
 
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Stitch
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 27):
Yes, to point out the obvious, NW is really getting serious about SEA. SEA-China is probably in the cards.

Shanghai Air will fly SEA-PVG once they get their 787s in 2009, so if NW does SEA-PEK, that would be quite nice.
 
Mason
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:39 pm

Does NW plan to offer connecting options in LHR, and if so, on AF or what? What sorts of connections are available on AF out of LHR? Or perhaps they're aiming at pax terminating in London, in which case, I don't see loads on BA dropping that much (a lot of their traffic is connecting to India/Europe). Next summer will be interesting.
 
Humberside
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting Mason (Reply 30):
Does NW plan to offer connecting options in LHR, and if so, on AF or what? What sorts of connections are available on AF out of LHR?

AF's only LHR service is to CDG
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roseflyer
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:59 pm



Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 25):
I think most of it will be O&D as SkyTeam is going to be co-located at LHR which should make for more connections there. So more people will be flying (Europe/Africa/MidEast)-LHR-SEA than LHR-SEA-(West Coast).

What connections can be offered from LHR that NW doesn't offer already through AMS? It looks like Oneworld will keep LHR as its only Europe destination from SEA, Star will have CPH and FRA with FRA being a huge transit hub, but CPH being a niche market, but skyteam will have AMS, CDG and LHR. European service goes to Skyteam.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 28):
With respect to LHR, I think BA will still be the better choice for premium pax as their business class is far superior to WBC.

It's very true that BA offers a far superior product to NW in business class. BA also has first class on top of that. However lots of companies choose an airline based on price and think all business class is the same, including some big ones in SEA. However BA has a pretty small economy section compared to NW, so we'll see how that goes.

Quoting Mason (Reply 30):
Does NW plan to offer connecting options in LHR, and if so, on AF or what? What sorts of connections are available on AF out of LHR?

AF already operates SEA-CDG on a A332. I can't imagine anyone going via LHR to connect to AF.
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B752OS
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 pm



Quoting United777 (Reply 5):
WOW!! Great for SEA. I always thought it made sense for NW to create SEA a focus city for international flights. Hopefully the A333 will be used than switched to the 787.

I don't see NW putting a 787 on the SEA-LHR route. I am sure they are panning on using the planes to either open up ne routes, or fortify existing routes out of DTW, namely to Asia and some routes out of MSP. I for one am hoping they start BOS-NRT( But that may be some wishful thinking)

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Seattle-Europe is getting overcrowded. Yields are going to start to suffer, and somebody is going to bite, although I don't think it will be NW's LHR route.

I agree and you were right, you mentioned in the thread a few days ago that NW would start SEA-LHR. I think BA and their added second daily flight will take a fall as a result.
 
Kohflot
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:00 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 29):
Shanghai Air will fly SEA-PVG once they get their 787s in 2009, so if NW does SEA-PEK, that would be quite nice.

Hainan starts SEA-PEK next summer.

The next Asia route needed from SEA is HKG, which may be compelling for NW with the 787. But like NW adding LHR, I wonder if they can add Asia routes without taking traffic from already-established carriers. Can United, Northwest, Asiana, Korean, EVA, China Airlines, Hainan, and Shanghai (and we'll even throw in the rumored Phillippines) all co-exist at SEA? Dunno....
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incitatus
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:33 pm

SEA-LHR is only getting service because Seattle is the only city NW can serve into LHR at 4pm with more than a remote chance of making money. It all boils down to slots! It will not last. During the Winter Northwest will lose buckets of money in the route. It will ultimately axe SEA-LHR in favor of another frequency DTW-LHR when it is able to swap its 4pm/arrival 6pm/departure slot into something more desirable. And at that time it will shutter service to LGW too.
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:35 pm



Quoting Kohflot (Reply 34):
The next Asia route needed from SEA is HKG, which may be compelling for NW with the 787. But like NW adding LHR, I wonder if they can add Asia routes without taking traffic from already-established carriers.

Another routes we keep hearing about is the return of LAX/SEA-KIX, and a KIX-SGN route in the coming year. The SGN route is one NW has wanted to start for quite a long time
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elmothehobo
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:58 pm



Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 6):
Does the A330-300 have the range for SEA-LHR ? Just assumed it would be a -200 series.

In short, yes, but it'll be one of the longer A330-300 routes. SEA-AMS was the longest scheduled A330-300 flight.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 31):
AF's only LHR service is to CDG

They aren't going after connecting passengers on the LHR side, and, with the schedule they're offering, not too many on the Seattle side either.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 32):
AF already operates SEA-CDG on a A332. I can't imagine anyone going via LHR to connect to AF.

Skyteam seems to have Seattle in the bag - connections to their two biggest hubs and to Europe's biggest business center.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:11 pm

NW's official press release is right here: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071210/20071210005960.html?.v=1

On a side note: In the press release, Steenland mentioned a "forthcoming announcement" regarding "Northwest's campaign for a healthier environment". Could it mean another aircraft order, like an EMB-195 or A319 order to replace the remaining DC-9s and an A380 order to replace the 747-400s?
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Junction
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:28 pm

Good grief. This makes at least 7 SEA-Europe flights a day next summer:

NW 34 SEAAMS 100P 740A 1 332
AF 49 SEACDG 205P 850A 1 332
LH 491 SEAFRA 230P 925A 1 333
BA 48 SEALHR 640P 1145A 1 744
SK 938 SEACPH 650P 115P 1 343
BA 52 SEALHR 1005P 305P 1 777
NW 106 SEALHR 1005P 415P 1 332
 
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:33 pm

Internal communique:
To: All XXXXX XXXXXXXXX
From: XXXXX XXXXXXXXX
Date: December 10, 2007
Subject: New Service to London’s Heathrow Airport
I am pleased to tell you that NWA will soon be flying to London’s Heathrow Airport (LHR). As I mentioned in several past e-mails, we have been working with our Joint Venture partner KLM to transfer some of its LHR slots to us. These discussions have concluded, and this afternoon NWA made the announcement worldwide.
There’s more good news for us: not only will our current DTW and MSP to London services switch to LHR, but new SEA-LHR service will be introduced as well. While our MSP-LGW service will be discontinued, DTW-LGW will continue on the Trans-Atlantic 757 aircraft.
Let me try to answer what I imagine is your first question. Yes, we will be working to secure a new layover hotel for the LHR operation. (The current hotel will remain for the DTW-LGW flight). More details on this later.
Here are the effective dates:
MSP-LHR: 29MAR08; A330-300
DTW-LHR: 01MAY08; A330-300
SEA-LHR: 01JUN08; A330-200
Let me also bring you up to date on two other issues that affect our future flying:
􀂃 There are no significant developments on our Anti-Trust Immunity (ATI) requests. The issue is under review with the Department of Transportation (DOT). While we are hopeful of a positive decision by the end of this year, we don’t know for sure when the DOT will decide.
􀂃 We are working with Boeing to determine the impact of the production delays in the 787. There’s nothing new to report at this time. I’ll let you know as soon as we have more definitive information.
It is certainly a pleasure to share this news with you. I’m hopeful that with the award of ATI and the delivery of the 787, there will be many more e-mails like this in 2008.
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jetjack74
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RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:39 pm



Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 38):
On a side note: In the press release, Steenland mentioned a "forthcoming announcement" regarding "Northwest's campaign for a healthier environment". Could it mean another aircraft order, like an EMB-195 or A319 order to replace the remaining DC-9s and an A380 order to replace the 747-400s?

No, just maybe an effort to woooo the public with an enviromentally-friendly campaign to recycle our soda cans on-board the aircraft.
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Transpac787
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:09 pm



Quoting Junction (Reply 39):
BA 52 SEALHR 1005P 305P 1 777 NW 106 SEALHR 1005P 415P 1 332

Is the 332 really an hour slower than the 777 on this route??

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 36):
Another routes we keep hearing about is the return of LAX/SEA-KIX, and a KIX-SGN route in the coming year. The SGN route is one NW has wanted to start for quite a long time

Why KIX-SGN and not NRT-SGN?? AFAIK, the only connections out of KIX are TPE, SPN, and GUM....why not just have Vietnam out of NRT??

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 40):
MSP-LHR: 29MAR08; A330-300DTW-LHR: 01MAY08; A330-300SEA-LHR: 01JUN08; A330-200

Any word on what DTW-LGW will be?? With the addition of another A330 route, I guess we can assume it will be a 75A route??
 
SUPRAZACHAIR
Posts: 474
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:27 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:35 pm



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 37):
with the schedule they're offering, not too many on the Seattle side either.

They'll still have a multitude of conx available on QX throughout WA, OR, ID, and B.C. No such luck to Montana, though...
 
basrabob
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:54 am

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:01 pm

what I think is so ironic is that neither KLM or NW has released a press statement on it , but it is on sale..a strange set of affairs .You would have thought they would have been shouting it from the roof tops!
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:01 pm



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 37):
Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 6):
Does the A330-300 have the range for SEA-LHR ? Just assumed it would be a -200 series.

In short, yes, but it'll be one of the longer A330-300 routes. SEA-AMS was the longest scheduled A330-300 flight.

SEA-AMS was not the longest A330-300 route. KE has been using the 333 ICN-PRG for a few years. That's more than 200 nm further than SEA-AMS. AC also uses the 333 YVR-LHR which is just 67 nm shorter than SEA-LHR.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11664
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:22 pm



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 42):
Why KIX-SGN and not NRT-SGN?? AFAIK, the only connections out of KIX are TPE, SPN, and GUM....why not just have Vietnam out of NRT??

Bilateral issues.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
daron4000
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:17 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:32 pm

IIRC, unless the Vietnam-US bilateral is changed, UA is the only flag carrier that can serve SGN and so it woudl seem that this is not in the cards for NW.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11664
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:43 pm



Quoting Daron4000 (Reply 47):
IIRC, unless the Vietnam-US bilateral is changed, UA is the only flag carrier that can serve SGN and so it woudl seem that this is not in the cards for NW.

That's actually unclear. UA's application for SGN stated that two carriers could serve Vietnam. Regardless, there's a separate issue

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p78/281075.pdf

NW would not have 5th freedom ex-Japan due to the provisions of the US-Vietnam Bilateral.

See http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p102/484135.pdf (the docket number, lest anyone wants to see the rest of it, is 28950)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Transpac787
Posts: 1349
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:47 pm

RE: NWA/KLM To Begin LHR-DTW/MSP/SEA

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:44 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 46):
Bilateral issues.

The biateral issue is the number of flag carriers allowed, not the city pairs.

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