WINGS
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Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:58 pm

Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

I have decided to start a new thread so that all members can keep better track of what is happening with the 748 program in regards to orders. If I have failled to mention something, please feel free to inform.  Smile



On November 14, 2005, Boeing launcheed the 747-8 Family, the 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter, with orders from Cargolux and Nippon Cargo Airlines. Since it's launch Boeing has gathered a total of 103 orders/commitments, with 98 frames firmed up.


Boeing 748-8i


Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 2
Lufthansa German Airlines x 20

Total: 25 frames.


Boeing 748-8F



Atlas Air x 12
Cargolux Airlines x 13
Cathay Pacifc Airways x 10
DAE Capital 5 (*pending)
Emirates x 10
Guggenheim Aviation Partners x 4
Korean Air x 5
Nippon Cargo Airlines x 14
Volga Dnepr Airlines x 5

Total Firm: 73 frames.
Total Pending: 5 frames.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:27 pm

Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

[Edited 2007-12-10 12:28:00]
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flysherwood
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:39 pm

This is good news for those that would like to continue seeing the 747's around for the next 20-30 more years.
GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:44 pm



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

At this time, that seems to be the case.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:17 pm

Who are the next likely customers for the 8I since BA decided to order the A-380?
One Nation Under God
 
Alessandro
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:26 pm



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

[Edited 2007-12-10 12:28:00]

Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Dougloid
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:39 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

How many do they number?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
aa1818
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:40 pm

How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
na
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:50 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

Not for 80% of the business. The Antonovs are build to last just half the number of cycles a 747 can and needs twice the crew. Also I doubt that an AN-124 could sustain the high utilisation rate of 15 hours per day 24/7 of a Jumbo-Jet.
The Antonovs are impressive special freighters with aging technology and serve their small market well, but hardly a threat for the 748F. Technologically you can compare it with a 747-200F, but not with the far more advanced 748F.

The 747 has proven to be THE ideal large freighter, and even the A380F by concept will not change it either. Whatever Airbus says, I guess the market for the A380F is not big enough to justify its development.
 
phishphan70
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs?

i believe ever since we all saw the 380F go down the drain we knew this would happen. the freight market is only going to grow, and grow fast at that, so airlines in areas of the world on the verge of an economic renasance....(KA and CX and many more) need aircraft that can move their loads effectively and efficiently. currently flying, there is no plane that can compete with the 747-400F for versatility, operating economics, and for most airlines, fleet commonality to your freighters. i have a feeling that we will eventually see an 8i order from CX at least, if not more from the list of already firm freighter orders. CX already has a bunch of 744's (even though they are cutting 744s off some routes and replacing them with smaller 77W's) but with slot restrictions at HKG, CX will always have a Very important VLA roll in their organization i believe.
i think everyone would agree that the 747-8F is going to be a successful aircraft and will find itself in an important roll after EIS. good luck to Boeing and all those already committed to the program, and here's to more firm orders to keep the Original Queen of the Skys in her rightful home!
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:57 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126
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na
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:58 pm



Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):
How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?

744 production started with line-no.696, now we are at line-no.1395. Subtracting a few dozen 742s and 743s built after the first 744 that should be 650+ 744s alltogether, of which nearly 500 are pax aircraft. Thats just rough out of my mind, like you I am a bit lazy to check the exact numers which surely are available somewhere.
 
Alessandro
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 7):


Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

How many do they number?

+50 built AN-124s, 4 crashed, some of them are in military use.

Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Not for 80% of the business. The Antonovs are build to last just half the number of cycles a 747 can and needs twice the crew. Also I doubt that an AN-124 could sustain the high utilisation rate of 15 hours per day 24/7 of a Jumbo-Jet.
The Antonovs are impressive special freighters with aging technology and serve their small market well, but hardly a threat for the 748F. Technologically you can compare it with a 747-200F, but not with the far more advanced 748F.

The 747 has proven to be THE ideal large freighter, and even the A380F by concept will not change it either. Whatever Airbus says, I guess the market for the A380F is not big enough to justify its development.

Are the B742F stage3?
Well, upgrades are made for the AN-124 to extend their service life, AFAIK none AN-124 has been scrapped due to
number of cycles/hrs.

[Edited 2007-12-10 14:10:40]
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
na
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:00 pm



Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
Quoting AA1818 (Reply 8):How many 744 pax and original 744Fs were sold?
747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126

According to Wikipedia 493 744 pax were built (incl. -Ds and -ERs).
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:19 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 14):
According to Wikipedia 493 744 pax were built (incl. -Ds and -ERs).

When in doubt... Check... www.boeing.com.
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:28 pm



Quoting Alessandro (Reply 6):
Don´t forget the Antonovs, AN-124 and the sole AN-225 also compete with the B748F.

In a very narrow niche. That is why the largest An-124 operator - Volga-Dnepr - will also fly the 747-8F and why the An-124 has sold 36 units versus 239 744F/744ERF/748F units.
 
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United787
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:48 pm

What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i? Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:56 pm



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 2):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.

I don't think so. All of the A-380-800Fs (24?) that were ordered were cancelled, then the program assentially was cancelled.

But, would you say the B-747-8i has the BBJ/CJ market over the A-380-800? Boeing has sold 5 B-747-8iBBJs while Airbus has sold only one A-380-800CJ.

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
Boeing 748-8i


Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 1
Boeing Business Jet x 2
Lufthansa German Airlines x 20

Total: 25 frames.

Doesn't LH also have 20 B-747-8i options? Or are the options included?

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
Who are the next likely customers for the 8I since BA decided to order the A-380?

Who said BA will not order the B-747-8i? But, I believe that BA, NW, CX, JL, NH,UA, QF, and AF will eventualkly order the airplane, too. Sometime in there LH will exercise it's options into firm orders.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126

I thought there was also 4 B-747-400ERFs built, all going to CX.
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Doesn't LH also have 20 B-747-8i options?



Quote:
The Boeing Company and Deutsche Lufthansa AG today announced the carrier ordered 20 747-8 Intercontinental jetliners plus 20 purchase rights.

Source: boeing.com

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i?

Both the F and i have reached firm configuration, which means that the design is mostly complete.

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?

Take a look here  wave  :
Flightblogger post about the 748
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:29 pm



Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 3):
those that would like to continue seeing the 747's around for the next 20-30 more years

Count me in  bouncy  I love the 747....

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 2):
Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 1):
Is it just me, or does it appear that Boeing and Airbus have (inadvertently?) split the VLA market nicely between them, with the B748 for cargo VLAs, and the A380 for passenger VLAs

You would be correct in that assumption.

....although I doubt that it was a friendly agreement....just happened by circumstances....and could change drastically any day... smile 
 
aa1818
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:13 am



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 15):
When in doubt... Check

Thanks for the info!

AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:55 am

also believe that
SQ, Yes
KL, 50/50
AZ, dout it
MX, not sure
AR, 50/50
AC, dout it, 777's and 787's
IB, 50/50
SA, nope
NZ, dout it , 777's and 787's
LA, nope
AA, why??!!
CO, why ??!!
Vietnam time..
 
dl767captain
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:03 am

I think the 748 is just selling slow for now, I expect it will eventually have its place just like LH believes. These are the orders I expect...
BA: they didn't sound interested, but unless they plan on only filling their A380 with around 480 they will need a plane a little larger than the A350-1000 to fill the gap, while it is a slim chance it could still happen.

Biz jets: I find it strange that all the sudden that many biz jet 748 orders would be placed, I think it could be a govt order to replace the 2 air force ones and the E-4B, before people tell me those planes have cycles left in them just remember, they are less efficient 742s in a time of "green", plus theey wouldn't even be delivered until around 2010 and then have to go under their extensive defense modifications etc. So by the time that was done it would be time for some new planes.

NW and UA: both need a 748 for Asia routes while the A380 is too big for them (unless either airline merged with another one, then they might need an A380 for the extra capacity. NW would use the new 748s for pax and move their 744s to cargo to replace the 742

SQ/QF: not gonna happen they are happy with just the A380
Air France/ klm: air France might need it, it depends on how large of a gap there is between their A380s and 773s. Klm doesn't need it, most of their 744s are combo versions so unless Boeing offers that it won't happen
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:36 am



Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
What is the status of the design and production of the 747-8F and 747-8i?

Firm configuration was in early November, which means they are working detailed design now.

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
Has a production schedule been made public yet? Roll-out, First Flight, EIS?

First delivery is set for late 2010, so production should start sometime in 2009. As you'd expect this early in the project, there is no roll-out or first flight prediction yet.

Quoting Brendows (Reply 19):
Both the F and i have reached firm configuration, which means that the design is mostly complete.

That is not what firm configuration means. Firm configuration means they've pinned down the gross dimensions, performance targets, and architecture. Firm configuration means detailed design can *start*, not that it's complete.

Tom.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:03 am

What happened with EK ordering the B748i? Did Boeing reject their request for a shorter version of the 748i?

I am somewhat surprised at the lack of customers . The Airbus A380 has been getting a lot of press, which is good for the airlines. But Boeing has the reputation of the B747 family which airlines can rely on. The A380 is fantastic aircraft and it will change the airline industry. A lot of the previously mentioned airlines could directly replace their fleet of B744s with B748s while also adding the A380.

It's going to be great seeing a new 747 roll out of Everett!

KrisYYZ
 
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ER757
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:17 am



Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 5):
Who are the next likely customers for the 8I since BA decided to order the A-380?

I think CI or CX. Down the road a bit would be NW and UA IMHO. Outside shot of BA needing some, their non-order of recent times notwithstanding. Going way, way out on a limb, maybe IB and JL.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:32 am



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
747-400 =442
747-400ER =6
747-400F =126

I thought there was also 4 B-747-400ERFs built, all going to CX.

AA1818 only asked about the 744 and 744F nothing more...

Therefore you can void, cast out, ignore every other type.

744ER
744ERF
744D
744M

I only answered what he asked about and that was the 744 & 744F only...

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
I thought there was also 4 B-747-400ERFs built, all going to CX.

No... Far from.

Air France Cargo
China Cargo
Cathay Pacific Cargo
KLM Cargo
GECAS
ILFC
JADE Cargo
Guggenheim Cargo
Korean Cargo
Load Air Cargo

All have placed orders for the 747-400ERF.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
JRDC930
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:50 am

This is going to be a very inactive thread if we go on developments; nothing new for several months and a 2% probability of more orders makes me think the only action we'll see here is on 748F's. Face it no one is interested in the passenger version; its either too big or too small for most airlines, and certainly too much of an investment for airlines like UA and NW that barely are recovering. All the potential customers (i.e. 744 operators) have gone or are going A380 or A350/777 size aircraft for their fleets. This so called niche plane has no niche. Should be a very quiet thread for quite a while considering there haven't been any orders in about a year. Hopefully though the much more promising 748F will pick up some more orders soon. At least we have that to talk about.  bouncy 
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
Mike89406
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:06 am

This thread could potentially turn in to this thread
Short Question : Will The 747-8I Ever Be Built? (by Beaucaire Nov 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=3698447&searchid=3702555&s=JRDC930#ID3702555

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 35):
This is going to be a very inactive thread if we go on developments; nothing new for several months and a 2% probability of more orders makes me think the only action we'll see here is on 748F's. Face it no one is interested in the passenger version; its either too big or too small for most airlines, and certainly too much of an investment for airlines like UA and NW that barely are recovering. All the potential customers (i.e. 744 operators) have gone or are going A380 or A350/777 size aircraft for their fleets. This so called niche plane has no niche. Should be a very quiet thread for quite a while considering there haven't been any orders in about a year. Hopefully though the much more promising 748F will pick up some more orders soon. At least we have that to talk about.

 
AF022
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:06 am

What kind of difference in performance is there for the B747-8 over the B777-300ER? I am guessing only that the B747-800 has more capacity? Isn't the fuel burn much worse? And can someone compare the cargo capabilities of the pax-version? I think the -300ER has tremendous cargo volume.

Is there a list price of the B747-8, and is it comparable to the B777-300ER?

Quoting Phishphan70 (Reply 10):
CX already has a bunch of 744's (even though they are cutting 744s off some routes and replacing them with smaller 77W's)

What are they doing with the B744s they are cutting?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:13 am



Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 32):
What happened with EK ordering the B748i? Did Boeing reject their request for a shorter version of the 748i?

I do not believe EK was ever serious about ordering it. But even if they were, they evidently didn't want enough of them to make it worth Boeing's money to build the shorter model.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 37):
What kind of difference in performance is there for the B747-8 over the B777-300ER? I am guessing only that the B747-800 has more capacity? Isn't the fuel burn much worse? And can someone compare the cargo capabilities of the pax-version? I think the -300ER has tremendous cargo volume.

The 747-8I will have better range and likely a bit better payload over range thanks to the extra engine thrust. However, the 77W has four more LD3 positions then the 747-8F and carrying less passengers can dedicate more of those positions to revenue cargo.

So I expect the 747-8I will really only appeal to airlines:

  • flying right out to 8000nm;
  • flying at MZFW and they need the maximum range they can get;
  • who need to carry more passengers then a 77W/A346/A3510 can, but not as many as an A388 can.
  • who need to carry more passengers then a 77W/A346/A3510 can, but need more revenue cargo space then they could get flying the A388 (which is about 8+ LD3 positions short).
 
JAM747
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:54 am



Quoting NA (Reply 12):
Subtracting a few dozen 742s and 743s built after the first 744 that should be 650+ 744s alltogether, of which nearly 500 are pax aircraft

Why did they still build -200s and -300s after the -400 was in production?

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Reply 11):
747-400F =126


How many of these are 400ERF? I was hoping that Boeing would have sold more 400ER passenger versions to more airlines and not just Qantas. I thought that maybe JAL could have used some for flights to Brazil or BA to far routes in Asia etc.

I am very confident the 747-8i will sell very well and that we will see more dual A380/748 operators. I think we will be quite pleased how it performs when in service and that operators will be happy.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:12 am



Quoting JAM747 (Reply 40):
How many of these are 400ERF?

There is a difference in F and ERF.

F =4445 nautical mile range.
ERF =4970 nautical mile range.

Again...

744 =442
744D =19
744ER =06
744F =126
744ERF =40
744M =61

All this info is easily available @ User Defined Reports
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:55 am



Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
If I have failled to mention something, please feel free to inform.

What about a listing of Option Conversions and outstanding Options and Purchase Rights for each operator that took them out?

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
members can keep better track of what is happening with the 748 program in regards to orders.

That is what this thread should be about, potential and upcoming RFP's and sales campaigns for the 747-8i / 747-8F program. In addition to any Unidentified Orders that Boeing may book too. Please keep on topic. Thank you.
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:32 am



Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 25):
What happened with EK ordering the B748i? Did Boeing reject their request for a shorter version of the 748i?

EK wasn't specifically demanding a shorter version, they were demanding more range (Dubai-LAX both ways, I think), and Boeing wasn't willing to meet that. However, with EK it's always hard to tell if they actually want what they demand or they're just trying to play the OEM's against one another.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 25):
But Boeing has the reputation of the B747 family which airlines can rely on.

That's true but, until the A380, there really wasn't anything comparable so there was no benchmark for the 747. I fully expect the A380 to kick the 747-400 to the curb as far as reliability goes.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 30):
What kind of difference in performance is there for the B747-8 over the B777-300ER? I am guessing only that the B747-800 has more capacity? Isn't the fuel burn much worse? And can someone compare the cargo capabilities of the pax-version? I think the -300ER has tremendous cargo volume.

Is there a list price of the B747-8, and is it comparable to the B777-300ER?

B747-8 has considerably more range than the 777-300ER with similar payload. Fuel burn is worse, but not as much worse as you'd think since the engines are about 15 years newer. The 777-300ER has a slight edge on cargo volume.

For prices (pre-discount): http://www.boeing.com/commercial/prices/index.html
777-300ER: 250-279 $MM
747-8i: 285-300 $MM

Quoting JAM747 (Reply 32):
Why did they still build -200s and -300s after the -400 was in production?

1) It's hard to switch production lines cold
2) They had already sold -200's and -300's that they had to deliver
3) Some airlines wanted commonality (there are huge systems changes between the 200/300 and the 400)

They kept building 737-300/400/500 for a while while the 737NG was in production too.

Tom.
 
WINGS
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:23 pm

Now that China Airlines has opted for the A350-900 XWB, to meet its mid-size fleet needs, I think its appropriate for us to discuss which way China Airlines may go for its VLA needs.
China Airlines Sign LoI For Up To 20 A350s (by PanAm_DC10 Dec 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

The way I see it China Airlines have the following options.

1* 748i/748F/A380
2* 748i/748F
3* 748F/A380


Which of the three options do you think that China Airlines will opt for?

Regard,
Wings
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:37 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Who said BA will not order the B-747-8i? But, I believe that BA, NW, CX, JL, NH,UA, QF, and AF will eventualkly order the airplane, too. Sometime in there LH will exercise it's options into firm orders.

BA - never.
NW - possible.
CX - unlikely.
JL - possible.
NH - Never in a million years.
UA - possible.
QF - Not a prayer.
AF - you are joking right?

If you'd said Air China, China Airlines, Air India, PIA, and maybe Thai you may have been barking up the right tree but the above? AF? Seriously?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:38 pm



Quoting WINGS (Reply 36):
The way I see it China Airlines have the following options.

1* 748i/748F/A380
2* 748i/748F
3* 748F/A380

Which of the three options do you think that China Airlines will opt for?

Unless Airbus heaverily discounts the A-380 (which they do regularly), you can through out option #3. China may go the same way LH went, with option #1 (I expect LH to order the B-747-8F soon).
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:39 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 24):
First delivery is set for late 2010, so production should start sometime in 2009. As you'd expect this early in the project, there is no roll-out or first flight prediction yet.

Flightblogger has it more advanced than that - he believes the first components will start to be manufactured in Feb 08 Big grin
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:40 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
(I expect LH to order the B-747-8F soon).

Or convert -8i to -8F.
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:43 pm



Quoting ER757 (Reply 26):
I think CI or CX.



Quoting WINGS (Reply 36):
1* 748i/748F/A380
2* 748i/748F
3* 748F/A380

I think CI is a natural fit for the 748, due to the fact that their 744F fleet (20) is even larger than their 744 fleet (15). The 744 fleet is IMHO not large enough to have the 748F and a380. Cost wise (maintenence/spares/crew) it makes little sense. A combined order of the 748F and 748i seems to be a very good fit for them, just like the 744F/744 combo is right now.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:04 pm



Quoting Danny (Reply 40):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 38):
(I expect LH to order the B-747-8F soon).

Or convert -8i to -8F.

That won't happen. The A-380 is not a good fit on all of the LH routes that requirea VLA, so they ordered 20 B-747-8is and took options on 20 more. IIRC, LH has 12 A-380s on order.
 
columba
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:11 pm



Quoting Zkojh (Reply 22):
SQ, Yes

No, they ruled it out several times. They are very happy with their 77W/A380 mix for now.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 23):
I think the 748 is just selling slow for now, I expect it will eventually have its place just like LH believes

Agreed, I think the same. Hopefully 2008 will be a lucky number for the 747-8I and we will see more orders.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 23):
BA: they didn't sound interested, but unless they plan on only filling their A380 with around 480 they will need a plane a little larger than the A350-1000 to fill the gap, while it is a slim chance it could still happen.

A very little chance, since they did not mention it anymore as an alternative.

Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 23):
NW and UA: both need a 748 for Asia routes while the A380 is too big for them (unless either airline merged with another one, then they might need an A380 for the extra capacity. NW would use the new 748s for pax and move their 744s to cargo to replace the 742

Don´t know if the A380 is too big for them but I think for NW the best choice is the 747-8I, they could replace their 747-200Fs with 744BCF/747-8Fs and their 747-400s with 747-8Is from a cost perspective this would be a much better choice than a cargo 747 fleet and A380 for passenger service.

Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 25):
What happened with EK ordering the B748i? Did Boeing reject their request for a shorter version of the 748i?

They are still interested as well as in the 787-10. The main issue of the 747-8I with EK is not the size but the range.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 36):
Which of the three options do you think that China Airlines will opt for?

747-8F and 747-8I CI is too small for a mixed A380 and 747-8F fleet.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 18):
Sometime in there LH will exercise it's options into firm orders.

Last month there was an interview with the chief pilot of LH´s 747 fleet and he said LH could use up to 50 747-8Is.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:11 pm

I feel United will order a dozen or so 747-8i in the next few years to remain competitive in the Pacific market. The airlines lack of recent aircraft deliveries and improving financial health make the case for a decent sized order for the long-time 747 customer. I realize this isn't a earth-shattering number of aircraft, but UA will be needing this plane to stay relevant, and to cycle through older airframes.
I love dem planes....
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:35 pm



Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 28):
This is going to be a very inactive thread if we go on developments; nothing new for several months and a 2% probability of more orders makes me think the only action we'll see here is on 748F's. Face it no one is interested in the passenger version; its either too big or too small for most airlines, and certainly too much of an investment for airlines like UA and NW that barely are recovering. All the potential customers (i.e. 744 operators) have gone or are going A380 or A350/777 size aircraft for their fleets. This so called niche plane has no niche. Should be a very quiet thread for quite a while considering there haven't been any orders in about a year. Hopefully though the much more promising 748F will pick up some more orders soon. At least we have that to talk about.

I wish I could log all of the people saying comments like these a few years from now. The 748i WILL get more orders, period. Not everyone needs a VLA at this time.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 34):
That is what this thread should be about, potential and upcoming RFP's and sales campaigns for the 747-8i / 747-8F program. In addition to any Unidentified Orders that Boeing may book too. Please keep on topic. Thank you.

 checkmark 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:49 pm



Quoting Dl767captain (Reply 23):
Air France/ klm: air France might need it, it depends on how large of a gap there is between their A380s and 773s.

Why is people hare at A.net som focused on the gap in seat capacity? That has nothing to do with airliners fleet planning!
 
columba
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:57 pm



Quoting Someone83 (Reply 46):
Why is people hare at A.net som focused on the gap in seat capacity? That has nothing to do with airliners fleet planning!


Because that is one of the reasons why LH decided to order the 747-8I and LH will not be the only airline that might feel the gap between A346/77W and A380 is too big.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:36 pm



Quoting Zkojh (Reply 22):
also believe that
SQ, Yes
KL, 50/50
AZ, dout it
MX, not sure
AR, 50/50
AC, dout it, 777's and 787's
IB, 50/50
SA, nope
NZ, dout it , 777's and 787's
LA, nope
AA, why??!!
CO, why ??!!

Now why would Mexicana order any Boeing 747s? They have never had this type in their fleet.
Meet George Jetson
 
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RE: Boeing 747-8i/8F Order Thread.

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:43 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 31):
I do not believe EK was ever serious about ordering it. But even if they were, they evidently didn't want enough of them to make it worth Boeing's money to build the shorter model.

With all the A380s that Emirates has ordered, I can't imagine that they would need more VLAs like the 748i. I have no idea how they plan on filling all these A380s in the first place.
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