B752OS
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Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:33 am

Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick and a delegation of 40 people are over in China on a trade tour and it has been mentioned that an announcement of direct service between Boston and China could be announced.

Patrick did an interview with NECN (New England Cable News) and he said “We will have some news, I hope, to announce with respect to direct air service between Boston and Beijing and Shanghai. We have some details to work out."

Also to note, Governor Patrick shared a dinner with the Chairman of Hainan Airlines. Undoubtedly, a topic of conversation will be the air link between Boston and China. Accompanying Governor Patrick on the Trade Mission is the CEO of the Massachusetts Port Authority Tom Kinton who oversees the operation of Logan Airport.

Last week, a member of the Governor's Commission on Asian American Affairs reaffirmed that flights between BOS and PEK were planned for launch sometime in 2009.

This may finally be something to mention in regards to BOS finally getting non-stop service to Asia. It has been brought up before, but only on speculation that perhaps NW would start BOS-NRT or NH would do BOS-NRT.

Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China, that doesn't even take into account ICN, SIN, NRT, KIX, TPE, KUL and India.

Hopefully Patrick can get something done, Boston Mayor Menino had announced service almost 2 years ago, but that never happened, perhaps now something will get done.
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:22 am

Just found this

http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2007/11/26/daily28.html

Also posted here http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/11/report-boston-t.html

Yangtze River Express, which I believe is affiliated with Hainan, started 3 x weekly cargo flights to Shanghai from BOS
 
eghansen
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:31 am



Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
BA747400
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:37 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:38 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

That is a good question. I would guess no as Hong Kong is not technically part of China. I think it's a safe assumption that with a non-stop option, the numbers would increase a great deal as people who would normally go say PVD-ORD-PEK (I know several people whop do this 8-9 times a year) they could simply go BOS-PEK.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:56 am

Guess they forgot the memo that China has already decided all new USA-China routes on Chinese carriers through the next two years. Service between Boston and China between now and the end of 2009 is impossible.

A lot of cities - Miami, Boston, Houston - host these "trade missions", but they don't end up with anything. The best opportunity for Boston and other large cities without Asian service like is definitely not China, it's a major connecting hub like Seoul. Nonetheless, trade missions to China are in fashion these days.

[Edited 2007-12-10 20:59:45]
a.
 
iwannagothere
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:33 am

Doesn't AA have the largest presence at BOS? I know this is a tad off topic, but what airlines have the most flights or passengers out of BOS?
 
eghansen
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:38 am



Quoting Ba747400 (Reply 3):
DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.

I suppose it is possible, but you basically have to go northeast before traveling northwest. Kind of as if I traveled to China from California by flying to Chicago first. It is the long way around.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
Viscount724
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:54 am



Quoting B752OS (Reply 4):
as Hong Kong is not technically part of China.

Actually Hong Kong (and Macau) are technically part of China. They're officially known as Special Admininstrative Regions (SARs) of China. They of course have the ability to make their own decisions in various areas including bilateral air agreements.
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:47 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
Does that include HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777, and Boston does not make a good hub being further east than anywhere in the US.

BOS may not make a good hub in the US, but PEK makes a pretty good hub for Asia. The new PEK terminal due to open in time for the Olympics is looking fantastic. If the choices were BOS-SFO-NRT-SIN, or BOS-PEK-SIN what would you chose?
 
jcarv
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:17 pm



Quoting B752OS (Reply 1):
Yangtze River Express, which I believe is affiliated with Hainan, started 3 x weekly cargo flights to Shanghai from BOS

Unfortunately, this service quietly disappeared back in the summer. June or July.
 
Rcardinale
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:24 pm



Quoting JCarv (Reply 10):
Unfortunately, this service quietly disappeared back in the summer. June or July

Yea I was gonna say I used to see their 747's fly over my house every week but I haven't of lately. It used to fly China-JFK-BOS-ANC-China. What happened?
 
zrs70
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:53 pm

Remember, "direct flight" often means one flight number with a change of planes.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:42 am



Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 12):
Remember, "direct flight" often means one flight number with a change of planes.

With all due respect to Governor Patrick, I would be surprised if he knew that when he made the comment  Smile
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:22 am



Quoting Ba747400 (Reply 3):
DL and US both have large operations at BOS, what about codeshares/connections through BOS? What about pax who dont want to transfer through JFK or ORD...not to mention, it could be cheaper and/or more convenient.

well to tell you the truth IF DL could get MASSport to put in Customs in the Delta terminal then i could see DL going for BOS-PEK/PVG(after ATL,LAX,JFK get PEK/PVG and maybe CAN with CZ joining SkyTeam) but i think it could happen(but by the time it happens we will have an open skies with China)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
BA747400
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:52 am



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14):
well to tell you the truth IF DL could get MASSport to put in Customs in the Delta terminal

lol dont get me started on massport....IF massport cooperated in the first place, BOS might have been the host for many of the now-JFK-to-europe flights....what with their multi gazillion dollar terminal and all. Ah well, guess those gates will just have to be rented out now. greatttttt
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:37 am



Quoting BA747400 (Reply 15):
lol dont get me started on massport....IF massport cooperated in the first place, BOS might have been the host for many of the now-JFK-to-europe flights....what with their multi gazillion dollar terminal and all. Ah well, guess those gates will just have to be rented out now. greatttttt

rolmao........i don't know about replacing JFK but it would be a hub now (and would probably have LHR flights on its way)
but thanks again MASSport at least Delta will get money for subleasing those gates out.......maybe someone should show this to the mayor(even though BOS would still be 15-20 years away from getting PEK/PVG out of Delta but they would get some big cities in Europe and Latin America)
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:29 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 2):
HKG? Because 68,000 is only 186 pax per day, barely enough to fill a single 777

So instead of daily service, how about 2-3 flights per week. Then they could possibly fill a 777.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:53 pm



Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
rolmao........i don't know about replacing JFK but it would be a hub now (and would probably have LHR flights on its way)

BOS does not have the runway capacity/layout to make it a hub no matter how good the terminal facilities may be. BOS will always be predominantly a O&D market, and a very strong one at that. The last thing BOS needs is a bunch of RJ/Turboprop feeder flights. It's unfair to blame Massport alone for lack of FIS in terminal A. If the Feds aren't willing to staff it (which they said they wouldn't), what's the point of building it? Have you ever been on an inbound International flights at terminal E? It's never staffed at more than 1/3 capacity? What makes you think they would eventually agree to staff another facility at terminal A?
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL take over one of AZ's flights to Milan or Rome as soon as next Summer but service to china/Asia will not come from DL for sure. It will come from an Asian carrier first and NW second.
 
jcarv
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:38 pm



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
BOS does not have the runway capacity/layout to make it a hub no matter how good the terminal facilities may be. BOS will always be predominantly a O&D market, and a very strong one at that. The last thing BOS needs is a bunch of RJ/Turboprop feeder flights. It's unfair to blame Massport alone for lack of FIS in terminal A. If the Feds aren't willing to staff it (which they said they wouldn't), what's the point of building it? Have you ever been on an inbound International flights at terminal E? It's never staffed at more than 1/3 capacity? What makes you think they would eventually agree to staff another facility at terminal A?
I wouldn't be surprised to see DL take over one of AZ's flights to Milan or Rome as soon as next Summer but service to china/Asia will not come from DL for sure. It will come from an Asian carrier first and NW second.

Finally, someone speaks the truth instead of blaming just Massport. CBP is the one who is restricting international flights to Terminal E. They restrict other airlines from coming in due to their staffing issues. They refused to staff overnight shift which forced TACA to pull out. Massport has a gate space issue in Terminal E and I'm sure they would like to get rid of the American, Delta, jetBlue, and US Airways international arrivals to free some up during busy times.
 
IAD787
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:39 pm



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
With all due respect to Governor Patrick, I would be surprised if he knew that when he made the comment

He knows what he's talking about. He used to be on the board of United.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:31 pm



Quoting IAD787 (Reply 20):
He knows what he's talking about. He used to be on the board of United.

That's not saying much  Smile
 
eghansen
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:51 pm



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 9):
BOS may not make a good hub in the US, but PEK makes a pretty good hub for Asia. The new PEK terminal due to open in time for the Olympics is looking fantastic. If the choices were BOS-SFO-NRT-SIN, or BOS-PEK-SIN what would you chose?

Neither. I would choose BOS-EWR-SIN or BOS-LAX-SIN.

I don't think any chinese airports will be major hubs until they open up their visa restrictions. Americans and Europeans can travel through most Asian countries without any visas. When I traveled to Shanghai, I had to send my passport to a company in Washington to obtain a one-time visa. The whole process tied up my passport for three weeks and cost $110 including visa charge, processing fee and Federal Express mailing. I don't see how Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou can be major hubs until this is liberalized.

I know someone will tell me that you don't need a visa to connect, but if you miss your connection, or are sick and want to continue on a later flight, or want to have a cheap stopover, then you have to go through a great hassle to leave the airport and go to a hotel.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 17):
So instead of daily service, how about 2-3 flights per week. Then they could possibly fill a 777.

There are problems with crew scheduling on flights that are not daily. The plane returns back to the US the same day, but the crew must overnight for 24 hours. Delta does operate a 4x per week JFK-Kiev, but the pilots and flight attendents have to spend two nights in a hotel waiting for their return flight.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 pm



Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick and a delegation of 40 people are over in China on a trade tour and it has been mentioned that an announcement of direct service between Boston and China could be announced.

what a waste of time..no US carrier will fly it and thus use up precious China frequencies to fly market that would never win DOT approval and also it wouldnt be connected to teh airline's main network...ie HUB.


A chinese carrier might fly it but theyll be lucky to ahve a 50% LF.


Gov Patrick is probably on a junket to meet 19 yr old Chinese girls
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:22 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 22):
Neither. I would choose BOS-EWR-SIN or BOS-LAX-SIN.

But I didn't give you those options. My point is, the great majority of the passengers traveling between Boston and Singapore do not use those routes. Instead they are using one of the cheaper 2 stop routings. In general, if I need to go to Asia, I would trade a change of planes in ORD/SFO/LAX/JFK for a change of planes in PEK/HKG/ICN, any day. And I suspect many other people whould do that too but unfortunately right now that is not an option.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 23):
what a waste of time..

I'm sure they're talking about a lot more than flights to Boston.
 
LH423
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 17):
So instead of daily service, how about 2-3 flights per week. Then they could possibly fill a 777.

The problem with that is that it kills yields. Business travellers want flexibility. When you only have 2-3 flights a week, you chase away potential travellers to other airlines since, if they're going to have to make a stop anyway, there's less of an incentive to book with your airline on the non-stop.

Also, it doesn't really help numbers flying fewer flights a week. Most people travel on a schedule and aren't going to say "Well, we want to fly this day, but if we wait an extra two days there's a non-stop.", unless there's a significant cost savings (and there goes your yields). So, fewer flights a week may only boost the numbers slightly on those days but generally those aren't the travellers that airlines are chasing. In order to capture business traffic on long, thin routes like BOS-Asia, you need at least 5 weekly flights, preferably daily. The market will build itself, especially if you fly to an airport with good regional connections.

Anyway, this is hardly news. The mayor of Boston announced planned service with Hainan last year. We've seen what happened with that. Different politician, same results.

LH423
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airportugal310
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:02 pm



Quoting LH423 (Reply 25):
The problem with that is that it kills yields. Business travellers want flexibility. When you only have 2-3 flights a week, you chase away potential travellers to other airlines since, if they're going to have to make a stop anyway, there's less of an incentive to book with your airline on the non-stop.

In case you care,

Recalling the throng on people every morning at Continental going to Asia, I saw very few business looking people.

Looked more like leisure to me but what do I know...i just worked there.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
eghansen
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:06 pm



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 24):
But I didn't give you those options. My point is, the great majority of the passengers traveling between Boston and Singapore do not use those routes. Instead they are using one of the cheaper 2 stop routings. In general, if I need to go to Asia, I would trade a change of planes in ORD/SFO/LAX/JFK for a change of planes in PEK/HKG/ICN, any day. And I suspect many other people whould do that too but unfortunately right now that is not an option.

Sorry, but I just don't think it is going to happen. The big gateways to Asia are Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York because that is where the market is and because there is a multitude of convenient connections from Boston (and all other US cities) to those gateways. I just don't think Boston-Asia is in the cards no matter how much the residents might wish it.

The airport authorities have been trying to get a direct flight from my town (San Diego) to Asia for decades and it never happens. It is just the way it is.
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B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:40 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 27):
Sorry, but I just don't think it is going to happen. The big gateways to Asia are Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York because that is where the market is and because there is a multitude of convenient connections from Boston (and all other US cities) to those gateways. I just don't think Boston-Asia is in the cards no matter how much the residents might wish it.

The airport authorities have been trying to get a direct flight from my town (San Diego) to Asia for decades and it never happens. It is just the way it is.

I assume you are not talking about ever. Boston is the largest market in the U.S. without current flights to Asia. It will happen wihtout a doubt. The 787 is going to allow carriers to fly from BOS to Asia non-stop profitably.
 
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Pellegrine
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:22 am



Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

That's it? I'm sure they don't mind connecting at JFK/ORD/etc... The best bet for BOS-Asia is NRT on a small plane, 787-8, maybe. Ongoing pax could connex in NRT to China et al.
oh boy, here we go!!!
 
geekydude
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:07 am



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 29):
That's it? I'm sure they don't mind connecting at JFK/ORD/etc... The best bet for BOS-Asia is NRT on a small plane, 787-8, maybe. Ongoing pax could connex in NRT to China et al.

But things are changing fast! As I said in another thread, the US and China recently signed an agreement allowing Chinese tourists to visit the US next year. This could be a potentially very lucrative market for any city and any carrier that has direct flight to China. The majority of the Chinese are not rich yet, but the very small proportion of people who are rich enough to visit the US would inundate current capacity of flights. Just think about how many rich parents would like their little kids to visit Harvard and MIT if nothing else.

Also as a side note, this would help address the trade imbalance between US and China to a very limited extent.  Wink
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QantasHeavy
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:30 pm

I think BOS might see Asia passenger service with the 787, but nothing 'til then.
 
SoBe
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:43 pm

Obviously they would like a nonstop but they have direct service to PEK.

UA897 and 898 on the return through IAD.
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:22 pm



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 29):
Quoting B752OS (Thread starter):
Over 68,000 people a year fly between Boston and China

That's it? I'm sure they don't mind connecting at JFK/ORD/etc... The best bet for BOS-Asia is NRT on a small plane, 787-8, maybe. Ongoing pax could connex in NRT to China et al.

Of course 68,000 seems small when you compare it to LAX or JFK for example. That 68,000 is only to PVG and PEK. That does not include HKG, SIN, ICN, etc. I also think it's safe to say that if there were a non-stop, the numbers would climb as people who would go PVD-ORD-PEK for example, would instead go BOS-PEK. I am not saying there are a great deal of people going PVD-ORD/JFK/IAD-PEK, but when you add those and the people that would connect out of MHT and even BDL, that adds up. Also I think with a non-stop the local market would see a boost as well.

I think for a business traveler, or any type of traveler for that matter, making a connection is a pain. I fly for business on a regular basis and I always fly non-stop, adding a stop adds hours to my trip. Any city in Asia is a long flight and adding an extre 4-5 hours just makes it drag on even more. I have had to fly to NRT, HKG, and PEK for business and usually connect through ORD and that alone adds an extra 5 hours to my trip which to me, is a pain.
 
VictorKilo
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:53 pm



Quoting B752OS (Reply 28):
Boston is the largest market in the U.S. without current flights to Asia. It will happen wihtout a doubt. The 787 is going to allow carriers to fly from BOS to Asia non-stop profitably.

I think a NW 787-8 flight BOS-NRT is the best bet for Boston-Asia service, and would allow connections at NRT to most major Asian markets. Maybe it could even be routed as a direct BOS-NRT-PEK flight for a "direct" flight to China.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:44 pm



Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 31):
I think BOS might see Asia passenger service with the 787, but nothing 'til then.

100% agreed. In fact, I think that Boston-Japan happens before Boston-China does...no matter what Massachusetts' governor and his 40-person boondoggle to China might want to suggest to the media. My bet is on either Northwest or All Nippon.

In the end, the 787 is the great enabler. It is and always has been touted as a plane designed for those long-and-thin routes. But the fear I have is that airlines getting this plane will simply insert it into routes already served by other planes. So instead of opening up new routes such as Boston-Narita, the 787 will be used on existing nonstops to/from Asia because it will be seen as a 'flagship' aircraft for the 'plum' city-pairs that already exist.
 
geekydude
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:17 pm



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 22):
I don't think any chinese airports will be major hubs until they open up their visa restrictions. Americans and Europeans can travel through most Asian countries without any visas. When I traveled to Shanghai, I had to send my passport to a company in Washington to obtain a one-time visa. The whole process tied up my passport for three weeks and cost $110 including visa charge, processing fee and Federal Express mailing. I don't see how Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou can be major hubs until this is liberalized.

Agreed. Unfortunately I don't think this problem can be solved anytime soon. Visa handling is reciprocal. Chinese citizens need to go through a lot more hassle getting a visa of any sort to travel to any Western country. In the case of a US visa, an applicant must purchase a prepaid phone card and place a reservation call about 20 days in advance if he's lucky enough to get time slot; then the applicant must travel to the US visa issuing post (there are only 5 of them in China as far as I know) to apply in person with a non-refundable 100-dollar application fee. If the visa is not rejected outright (a lot of them are), a lot of people will still have to wait up to 8 weeks for a background check and so on and so forth. By comparison, 110 dollars and 3 weeks for a Chinese visa sound a like real bargain.

If Beijing/Shanghai/Guangzhou can't become real major international hubs, then I wish them luck handling the exponential growth of domestic traffic, which is already a daunting task.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:39 pm

NW could make BOS-NRT work well with the 787
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:09 pm



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 35):
Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 31):
I think BOS might see Asia passenger service with the 787, but nothing 'til then.

100% agreed. In fact, I think that Boston-Japan happens before Boston-China does...no matter what Massachusetts' governor and his 40-person boondoggle to China might want to suggest to the media. My bet is on either Northwest or All Nippon.

In the end, the 787 is the great enabler. It is and always has been touted as a plane designed for those long-and-thin routes. But the fear I have is that airlines getting this plane will simply insert it into routes already served by other planes. So instead of opening up new routes such as Boston-Narita, the 787 will be used on existing nonstops to/from Asia because it will be seen as a 'flagship' aircraft for the 'plum' city-pairs that already exist.

I also believe that the first service to Asia from Boston will be to NRT with a 787 on either NW of NH. Although JL could also be a carrier that would fly the route. I still think there is a pretty good chance Boston will get flights to PEK in the next 2-3 years on Hainan thanks to their purchase of the 787.

The 787 is a godsend so to speak for an airport like BOS where the lack of runway length cripples an Asian airline from profitably serving Boston. Look at KE, as it has been mentioned, they were never able to run a fully loaded 744 out of BOS due to runway length and that killed the performance of the flight.
 
airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:36 pm



Quoting LH423 (Reply 25):
The problem with that is that it kills yields. Business travellers want flexibility. When you only have 2-3 flights a week

Tell that to SQ. they just announced 4x weekly service to IAH and many airlines offer non-daily long haul routes. These days with airline alliances, that is not longer an issue. You can take the non-stop in one direction and the one-stop with a partner airline on the return. No big deal.

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 22):
I don't think any chinese airports will be major hubs until they open up their visa restrictions.

Generaly speaking, only US and UK citizens require a transit Visa for transiting anywhere other than Shangai. US citizens don't need a transit visa for Shangai. I suspect that PEK will too have it's transit visa requirement lifted after the new terminal is built.
Here's the official wording from the Chinese consulate:
Visas are not required of aliens (except citizens of the United States and the United Kingdom), who hold final destination tickets and have booked seats on international airliners flying directly through China, and will stay in a transit city for less than 24 hours without leaving the airport.
Visas are not required of Citizens of the following countries, who transit through Pudong Airport or Hongqiao Airport of Shanghai, provided they hold valid passports, visas for the onward countries, final destination tickets and have booked seats, and stay in Shanghai for less than 48 hours
Republic of Korea, United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Austria, Greece.
 
LH423
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:39 am



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 39):
Tell that to SQ. they just announced 4x weekly service to IAH and many airlines offer non-daily long haul routes

I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all rule. Look at BA. They profitably fly to LUN 1x weekly. Or, in your case IAH is known to be a profitable destination because of the oil money. However, generally speaking, routes that rely more on business traffic than VFR need to be more than a few times a week to be profitable.

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 26):
Recalling the throng on people every morning at Continental going to Asia, I saw very few business looking people.

Well, in that case, there's no solid grounds for BOS-Asia to ever happen. If there's no business traffic then there's no chance BOS-Asia would ever survive a season. However, often business travellers dress more casually for these long flights. Do you really want to be in a suit for up to 20 hours on a plane?

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 7):
I suppose it is possible, but you basically have to go northeast before traveling northwest. Kind of as if I traveled to China from California by flying to Chicago first. It is the long way around.

yeah but LAX is very far south so if I was in say ohio it would be very out of the way probably more so than bos. it is kind of interesting when it comes to routings. I would have guessed BOS and SEA would make great international gateways being there location but not so much the case. You can infact go as far west as STL and still have a shorter flight through bos verse the typical LAX route.

[Edited 2007-12-13 18:17:07]
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Flighty
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:01 am



Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 35):
787 will be used on existing nonstops to/from Asia because it will be seen as a 'flagship' aircraft for the 'plum' city-pairs that already exist.

But it is a little small for that. It's smaller than a 777-200 (speaking of the 788 here), so it would hardly be the plane to put on DTW-NRT, for example.

I see what you saying, but have no fear, BOS will get 787 service to Asia without much doubt, before 2010 or so.
 
bagoldex
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:09 am



Quoting LH423 (Reply 40):
Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 26):
Recalling the throng on people every morning at Continental going to Asia, I saw very few business looking people.

Well, in that case, there's no solid grounds for BOS-Asia to ever happen. If there's no business traffic then there's no chance BOS-Asia would ever survive a season. However, often business travellers dress more casually for these long flights. Do you really want to be in a suit for up to 20 hours on a plane?

Not to mention that with Continental's minuscule Boston presence a throng is probably about five people.
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:52 am



Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 43):
Quoting LH423 (Reply 40):
Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 26):
Recalling the throng on people every morning at Continental going to Asia, I saw very few business looking people.

Well, in that case, there's no solid grounds for BOS-Asia to ever happen. If there's no business traffic then there's no chance BOS-Asia would ever survive a season. However, often business travellers dress more casually for these long flights. Do you really want to be in a suit for up to 20 hours on a plane?

Not to mention that with Continental's minuscule Boston presence a throng is probably about five people.

The size of CO at BOS has no weight on how many people connect BOS-EWR-NRT/HKG/PEK. CO operates 13 x daily BOS-EWR flight that can connect to the Asian banks on CO. So throwing out a blanket statement like about 5 people is off base. Your statement does not make any sense.
 
bagoldex
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:06 am

Take it easy there killer, my assertion is that fewer people fly CO to Asia from Boston relative to AA, UA and even DL. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, whoopty-f'in-doo, it's not the first time someone has been wrong on this site. Besides, look at the help's statement about people not looking 'businessy' and thus assuming there are no business travelers on a certain route, talk about not making sense.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:37 am

funny how a simple observation turns into some kind of speculation as to whether a route could happen....

some of you flunked People Watching 101 and how amusing it can be



Edit: I probably flunked it too. who knows...

[Edited 2007-12-13 21:41:49]
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airbazar
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 41):
I would have guessed BOS and SEA would make great international gateways being there location but not so much the case.

BOS is a great international gateway. It may not be a great International hub but a lot of it has to do with the unfortunate layout and space constraints of the airport itself. In a way, BOS is a victim of its own success. Because it is such a strong O&D market we get lots of international service for a city of this size, and that puts off domestic carriers from starting their own international service because they can get better margins by funneling traffic through their hubs. It also doesn't help that NYC/PHL are only an hour away. So as I pointed out before, BOS will forever be predominantely a O&D market. And that's fine by me. I love visiting the International terminal at rush hour. There are few airports in the US where you can see that many International heavies in one place, and it keeps getting better.

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bobnwa
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:59 pm



Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 45):
Take it easy there killer, my assertion is that fewer people fly CO to Asia from Boston relative to AA, UA and even DL. If I'm wrong,

The leading carrier for passengers from Boston to Asia boardings is a close call between UA and NW depending on the month. CO, AA, and DL are well behind.
 
B752OS
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RE: Direct BOS-China Flights

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:36 pm



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 47):
Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 41):
I would have guessed BOS and SEA would make great international gateways being there location but not so much the case.

BOS is a great international gateway. It may not be a great International hub but a lot of it has to do with the unfortunate layout and space constraints of the airport itself. In a way, BOS is a victim of its own success. Because it is such a strong O&D market we get lots of international service for a city of this size, and that puts off domestic carriers from starting their own international service because they can get better margins by funneling traffic through their hubs. It also doesn't help that NYC/PHL are only an hour away. So as I pointed out before, BOS will forever be predominantely a O&D market. And that's fine by me. I love visiting the International terminal at rush hour. There are few airports in the US where you can see that many International heavies in one place, and it keeps getting better.

Well said and I feel the same way. BOS is not that nice of an airport when you look at the quality of the terminals, etc. Massport has done a nice job rebuilding the roadways, ramps, etc (The Ted Williams tunnel is fantastic). Aside from terminal A, US side of terminal B and terminal E, the rest of the airport is pretty dumpy. AA is doing a decent job making some upgrades to their side of terminal B, but the rest is not that great. For some time I have felt that building a new airport would be a great thing for the city and region. Building a new airport away from downtown maybe 9 or 10 miles away would allow a new airport to be built with plenty of room to grow. Logan just isn't setup to support a hub operation and that was never the intention of the airport.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 48):
Quoting BAGoldEx (Reply 45):
Take it easy there killer, my assertion is that fewer people fly CO to Asia from Boston relative to AA, UA and even DL. If I'm wrong,

The leading carrier for passengers from Boston to Asia boardings is a close call between UA and NW depending on the month. CO, AA, and DL are well behind.

I could see that. I have had to fly to Asia quite a few times and since I only fly UA, I would connect through either SFO or ORD for my trips to NRT, HKG and PEK. I know quite a few people that usually fly with UA and live slightly closer to PVD and will go PVD-ORD-NRT for example. They would drive up to BOS if there were a non-stop, but since they know they are going to have to connect either way they rather go closer to them.