Finkenwerder
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Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:51 am

Heard that AB has 10 Dash 8-400's on order for delivery in '08 any confirmation of this ? and what routes would they use them on ? HAM-SXF perhaps ?
 
eghansen
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:19 am

These are the routes they operate Dorniers on, so I would assume they could use Dash 8-400s on the same routes.

Dortmund-Berlin Tegel: 3x daily Do228-200 service (replacing earlier Tempelhof service by LGW)
Dortmund-Stuttgart: 3x weekdaily Do228-200 service
Dusseldorf-Hanover: 5x daily Do228-200 service
Dusseldorf-Saarbruecken: 4x daily Do228-200 service

I would think they could use mainline jets from HAM-SXF. Pan Am used to run A300's on similar routes in the 1980's and the traffic should have grown since then.
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Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:10 am

There is absolutely no point in HAM-BER services unless they serve as feeder flights considering the high speed railway link between the two cities. I do not think AB can generate enough connection traffic via TXL just yet to justify such flights.
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PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:54 am



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 1):
I would think they could use mainline jets from HAM-SXF. Pan Am used to run A300's on similar routes in the 1980's and the traffic should have grown since then

I've flown HAM-THF on both BE and PA many times, but those were the days when there was an iron curtain between the two cities and road or rail traffic was a hassle

The trains takes 90 minutes city center to almost city center Berlin. There is absolutely no point for an air service between these cities.
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Viscount724
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:41 am



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
The trains takes 90 minutes city center to almost city center Berlin. There is absolutely no point for an air service between these cities.

There hasn't been any air service between Hamburg and Berlin for a few years, since the high speed rail service began. My first of many flights on Pan Am was on a 727-100 HAM-THF in 1970 when LH wasn't permitted to serve Berlin.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:57 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

There hasn't been any air service between Hamburg and Berlin for a few years, since the high speed rail service began. My first of many flights on Pan Am was on a 727-100 HAM-THF in 1970 when LH wasn't permitted to serve Ber

LH operated 2 or 3 flights a day in the early 90s and they ceased those operations long before the HSR rail started.

As you can see from my name, I have some relation to Hamburg and I have not only flown PA 727-100s and 200s but also BEA Bac 1-11-500s and Viscounts on that route.
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columba
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:08 am



Quoting Finkenwerder (Thread starter):
Heard that AB has 10 Dash 8-400's on order for delivery in '08 any confirmation of this ?

It is rumor floating around for awhile that Germania has ordered 10 Dash 8 Q400 to replace the F100. Have not heard any confirmation yet.

Quoting Finkenwerder (Thread starter):
what routes would they use them on ? HAM-SXF perhaps ?

As said above the rumor is that the Q400 will replace the F100 so it will be used that currently see the F100.
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Finkenwerder
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:36 am

1. So no confirmation of this order then ?

2. The rail link is 2 hours min most days, it's expensive for business travelers the service is sketchy and recently subject to union disruption.

3. I can name dozens of cities pairs with high speed rail links, that have air shuttle services.

4. I feel sure that when they close TXL If I turn up at HAM I will have the option of connecting to SXF and vice versa ? ok I have 3 years to wait for it I know  Sad
 
columba
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:47 am



Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 7):
1. So no confirmation of this order then ?

As far as I can tell you there is no confirmation yet. But I would love if the rumor comes true. With 737s, A320s and the new regional aircraft such as the Ejet, CSeries, Superjet and MRJ all looking very much the same it is good to see some aircraft that sticks out of the rest. Also a prop is much more environmental friendly as a jet.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
ZakHH
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:12 am



Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 7):
2. The rail link is 2 hours min most days, it's expensive for business travelers the service is sketchy and recently subject to union disruption.

The overall travelling time to Berlin will not decrease when flying (unless you live / work right next to the airport, maybe). Flying is usually not cheaper (unless you book some time in advance, but then railways also offers discounts). Service on inner-German flights is close to non-existent (let alone for a free newspaper and a tiny soft drink, maybe). And the union strike is practically over.

I am certainly not a fan of Deutsche Bahn, but there is absolutely no need for an air link between HAM and Berlin these days.
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PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:46 am

There is at least one ICE train per hour and an additional EC or ICE train almost every hour between HAM and BER.

1st class unrestricted is Euro 104,00 for ICE and 82,00 for EC train and second class unrestricted is Euro 65,00 / 52,00, all one way. Douible for return and if you have a Bahncard it is 50% of the above.

There are advance booking offers available. Even the full fare first class unrestricted without Bahncard could not be matched by an airline. I am an advocate of air travel, but where rail has a better product, I use it.

No need for any kind of air service on that route, even after SXF will eventually be the sole airport forBerlin. The line gpoing from HAM comntinues via Berlin to Dresden or Leipzig and will call in SXF. Add about 20 minutes to the Main station times and you arrive at about 2 hours transit time.

No ,match by air,time wise as well.
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TriStar500
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:39 pm

I suppose this was all written without knowldge of the German geography and transportation networks, so...

Dortmund-Berlin Tegel: 3x daily Do228-200 service (replacing earlier Tempelhof service by LGW)

A low-volume niche route due to extensive and attractive competiton with the high-speed rail network. Flying a Dash8 would be capacity overkill.


Dortmund-Stuttgart: 3x weekdaily Do228-200 service

Considering AB's four and LH's about four or five daily flights from nearby DUS and C9's three daily flights from equally nearby FMO, I doubt there is anything but a niche market on this route.


Dusseldorf-Hanover: 5x daily Do228-200 service

This route is purely for slot retention and will most likely be gone by summer 2008.


Dusseldorf-Saarbruecken: 4x daily Do228-200 service

This route is chiefly for slot retention and will most likely be gone by summer 2008.


I would think they could use mainline jets from HAM-SXF. Pan Am used to run A300's on similar routes in the 1980's and the traffic should have grown since then.

In times of extremely attractive and fast rail and Autobahn connections between the two cities, there is no meaningful market for an air service left.


And most importantly, there is no AB order of Dash-8's of any version.
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vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:13 pm

In November, DUS-SCN flights had on average 3 pax. Certainly no need for a Q400.....
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:23 pm

I have used the 1st class ICE Hamburg Berlin twice a week for last 3 years....It's NOT THAT GOOD ! It's a pain to find a seat ! and it is expensive.

If WOW can charge 60 Quid return BRS to PLH which has very low business numbers, I'm sure AB or someone could do the same HAM SXF I'm inclined to think it's German lack of initiative thats holding it back.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:38 pm

What are you talking about? There is no service to PLH and who is WOW, other than that (in)famous slogan on certain MD11s.?

If you don't find a seat on an ICE train in 1st class that draws 3 conculsions :

1.) you travel at peak times
2.) you do not make a seat reservation, which, with a Bahncard with Bahn.comfort should be no problem
3.) the train is very popular on that city pair.
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sevenair
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:21 pm

PLH = Plymouth? WOW = Air Southwest. Plymouth being served by Air Southwest??
 
dazeflight
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:07 pm



Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 13):
It's a pain to find a seat !

Travelling first class but no money left for a seat reservation?  eyepopping 
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):

http://www.airsouthwest.com/

You

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
What are you talking about? There is no service to PLH and who is WOW, other than that (in)famous slogan on certain MD11s.?

If you don't find a seat on an ICE train in 1st class that draws 3 conculsions :

1.) you travel at peak times
2.) you do not make a seat reservation, which, with a Bahncard with Bahn.comfort should be no problem
3.) the train is very popular on that city pair.

Search is your friend

http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/aptcoderes.asp PLH EGPH Plymouth

http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/airlcoderes.asp WOW

http://www.airsouthwest.com/

Quoting Dazeflight (Reply 16):
Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 13):
It's a pain to find a seat !

Travelling first class but no money left for a seat reservation? eyepopping


The issue is lack of choice.......

[Edited 2007-12-11 10:26:47]
 
Humberside
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:38 pm

Not worth having a new thread, but do LGW still do DTM-Nuremburg?
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PanHAM
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:46 pm



Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 17):
Search is your friend



Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 17):
PLH EGPH Plymouth

I know PLH, The flights are not listed in the OAG and when it's not in the bible.....

Air Southwest is noit listed under "WOW" in the July A-Z issue either.
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TriStar500
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:49 am



Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Not worth having a new thread, but do LGW still do DTM-Nuremburg?

No, the route was disbanded with the change to the current winter schedule.
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sevenair
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:03 am



Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
know PLH, The flights are not listed in the OAG and when it's not in the bible.....

Air Southwest is noit listed under "WOW" in the July A-Z issue either.

There's this thing, called Google??????
 
vfw614
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:14 am

PLH-BRS is not a standalone product. The PLH-BRS flight meets the NQY-BRS flight and continues to MAN, while the other flight goes to LBA. So three reasons for these flights that do not apply for HAM-SXF:
- BRS being a stop, not the end destination, with most passengers not travelling to BRS
- BRS being part of a mini-hub to destinations that otherwise are not served from PLH and NQY
- BRS being necessary as a stop because of runway limitations at PLH.


But now back to Air Berlin....

I shall hasten to add that nowhere has anything semi-official been published on the rumour, so we may all be living in a dreamland here.....
 
Humberside
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RE: Air Berlin Dash-8 Routes?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:03 pm



Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 20):
Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Not worth having a new thread, but do LGW still do DTM-Nuremburg?

No, the route was disbanded with the change to the current winter schedule.

Surprised at that. Thought with AB's hub at NUE they would retain it
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