bahadir
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Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:09 pm

I just saw this youtube video of a Freebird airlines making an approach into IST/LTBA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPHlyahTx44

[Edited 2007-12-11 04:14:18]
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LHR777
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RE: Poor Airmanship? A Case Of

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:14 pm

There seems to be a lot of unnecessary people in the cockpit, for a training flight. How can the trainee pilot concentrate with all that going on around him? Whatever happened to 'sterile cockpit'?
 
bahadir
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:15 pm

Exacly my point.. Besides, too many non essential chit chat going on..
Earthbound misfit I
 
musapapaya
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:22 pm

Not good! Thats why I choose to fly with airlines based in countries with 'Good Discipline"!
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ACFA
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:26 pm

Is it just me or the camera angle? or was he off the centerline quite a bit?

I agree, way too many people in the cockpit and definately not in line with the sterile cockpit concept.
 
bahadir
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:39 pm

ACFA,
it says that it's a training flight.. So, being off center, being low of glidescope and not retarding the power are all the errors i can see here. Then again, you'd expect a candidate with adequate amount of sim training wouldn't have all these mistakes back to back.. I bet this was a training flight right after the sim training. Flying sim and the airplane are two different things.
My concern is not adhering to the sterile cockpit procedures.. and having too many non essential people in the fligt deck..
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:54 pm



Quoting LHR777 (Reply 1):
Whatever happened to 'sterile cockpit'?



Quoting Bahadir (Reply 5):
My concern is not adhering to the sterile cockpit procedures..

That is an FAA thing. Is that required overseas?
What gets measured gets done.
 
bennett123
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:20 pm

I am amazed that they could get 5 people into the cockpit.
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:07 pm

Its obviously a training flight, and the other people in then flightdeck are most likely other trainees.

When you've done a new typerating and are doing the circuits it's normal that the airline will load a small group of new pilots onto the aircraft so they can do their circuits on the same training mission - saves the company money. While someone is flying, it's normal for the rest of the group to observe.

This isn't necessarily indicative of how this particular airline would operate a revenue flight.

In actual fact, after watching the video, the trainee had control taken off him during the flare when he was not being positive enough about getting the aircraft down. Embarassing for him undoubtedly, but it's very likely that was the first time he'd ever landed an A320. I'm sure the next one was better - under JAR it's a requirement to complete 4 to 6 landings with a TRE/TRI before you can apply to have the aircraft added to your license and begine line training on revenue flights.

That said there is a lot of chatter, but not speaking Turkish I have no idea if some of it is relevant to the operation of the flight or the training, or not... Can't have made it easy for the guy in the hotseat, don't think I'd have been happy!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
Boeing744
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:28 pm



Quoting Crosswind (Reply 8):
In actual fact, after watching the video, the trainee had control taken off him during the flare when he was not being positive enough about getting the aircraft down. Embarassing for him undoubtedly, but it's very likely that was the first time he'd ever landed an A320. I'm sure the next one was better - under JAR it's a requirement to complete 4 to 6 landings with a TRE/TRI before you can apply to have the aircraft added to your license and begine line training on revenue flights.

Yeah, it sounds like the pilot in the left seat said "I have the controls" during the long flare.
 
N766UA
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:18 pm

How about this one?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6070d_4807

Anyone have any idea what's going on here?
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KELPkid
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:22 pm



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
That is an FAA thing. Is that required overseas?

 no  It is also a CRM (Crew Resource Management) thing.

Ever wonder why the accident rate today worldwide is but a fraction of what it was in the '80s?  eyebrow 
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David L
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:03 pm



Quoting N766UA (Reply 10):
How about this one?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6070d_4807

Anyone have any idea what's going on here?

It was discussed in some depth here:
TU-154 Landing Video. What A Contrast (by Balandorlivery Jan 14 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
N766UA
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RE: Poor Airmanship? Freebird Airlines

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:45 am



Quoting David L (Reply 12):
t was discussed in some depth here:

Thank you sir.
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