B757capt
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Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:41 pm

Virgin America just annouced service begining 3/18/08 3 flights a day to each city.
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seabosdca
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:02 pm

This ought to shake things up a bit! Something that needed to happen, especially in the LAX-SEA market.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:08 pm

 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:17 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
especially in the LAX-SEA market.

LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

If anything SFO-SEA might need the service more as its not only a larger market but served by two carriers AS-UA if you dont want to count all the SWA flights across the Bay.

Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:26 pm



Quoting Seabosdca (Reply 1):
This ought to shake things up a bit! Something that needed to happen, especially in the LAX-SEA market.

I will absolutely try this one.  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:29 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

If anything SFO-SEA might need the service more as its not only a larger market but served by two carriers AS-UA if you dont want to count all the SWA flights across the Bay.

Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

 checkmark 

Not sure the logic of any of their network frankly. Seems like it's to go into mostly crowded markets and hope for the best. They seem to be under the impression that since they offer PTVs (and plugs as their website frequently reminds us) everything will be fine. B6 has some logic behind its past growth, VX - so far, not so much.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:39 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

There aren't really a lot of markets that can fill multiple A320's a day and don't already have substantial competition. Pretty much every route VX launches is going to be a route that is already pretty well served.

I thought MIA was supposed to be the next market, but I guess not. I wouldn't be surprised if VX is a little anxious about announcing another transcon route with fuel prices as high as they are.
 
searpqx
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:47 pm



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 5):
Not sure the logic of any of their network frankly. Seems like it's to go into mostly crowded markets and hope for the best. They seem to be under the impression that since they offer PTVs (and plugs as their website frequently reminds us) everything will be fine. B6 has some logic behind its past growth, VX - so far, not so much.

There's not much doubt that the SEA-LAX/SFO markets are fairly well served, but in this case I think VX is hoping to capitalize on perceived discontent w/ service levels. AS has had some well publicized service burps over the last couple years, and no matter how big a fan you are of AS (like me), you can't deny that the service is no where near what it was a few years ago.
My prediction is that many people will try it, some will make the switch, but AS will compete well on price, and in the end, price rules for the vast majority of travelers, meaning that just as they did with WN, AS will hold its own, and the two airlines will co-exist. I think if anyone takes a hit in these markets it will be UA. With their declining share in the region and no other strong Star partner here in Seattle, incentives to stick w/ United are lacking.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
greenguy01
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:00 pm

Isn't it odd that there is no press release and they are selling tickets and have updated their website?

I can't wait to see what the WN response will be. I think that VX is definetly stirring the pot with WN.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:08 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7):
but AS will compete well on price,

UA and AS have the nearly the same fares on the route. Sometimes, UA is even cheaper. UA has a vast international and domestic network out of SFO, along with many, many domestic destinations that AS and VX cannot match. UA will do just fine. Maybe a loss of some price-sensitive very low yield occasional O & D fliers, but otherwise they'll do fine with their Star Alliance members and their own huge Mileage Plus following.
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MAH4546
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):

I thought MIA was supposed to be the next market, but I guess not. I wouldn't be surprised if VX is a little anxious about announcing another transcon route with fuel prices as high as they are.

Miami's coming. They've already hired a station manager. It has more to do with lack of aircraft right now. Though, obviously, if fuel prices keep going higher that might give them second thoughts about adding new trans-cons to any market.
a.
 
United777
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:16 pm

As a frequent flier from Seattle to SFO i'm EXCITED!! I've always loved AS for the last 15 years even QX as they are adding more flights to the Bay Area thruogh PDX but I just don't have anymore faith in AS service anymore. It's all gone downhill for AS. Virgin America is going to do great in SEA!!
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:55 pm



Quoting Greenguy01 (Reply 8):
I can't wait to see what the WN response will be.

More likely what the AS response would be since SEA is their BIG backyard rather than WN's response.

Quoting Greenguy01 (Reply 8):
I think that VX is definately stirring the pot with WN.

Disagree. I think VX is going after AS rather than WN. I hope this is a huge wake-up call for AS since the service on AS has been declining as of late. Flame me all you want for that, but there are numerous threads on this already.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:29 pm



Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 9):
UA has a vast international and domestic network out of SFO, along with many, many domestic destinations that AS and VX cannot match.

AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:30 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.

Yep. You can even earn elite quallies on AS for CO. I always forget this fact...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:35 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
AS codeshares with a slew of OneWorld and SkyTeam members.

 checkmark  True.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
You can even earn elite quallies on AS for CO.

 checkmark  Again, True...

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
I always forget this fact...

Dude, that is what a pen and paper is for...write it down to remind you next time! LOL!  rotfl 
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Mason
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:44 pm



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
LAX-SEA is far from a non competitive market. The route has 3 airlines already with nonstops by AS-UA-DL while folks like SWA also offer quite a few seats one-stop via the Bay Area.

I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route. They were first using RJs, then switched to a 738, I believe. Every time I check the schedules, it seems that UA is less and less dedicated to the LAX-SEA flights, some days, only offering three flights. On another note, has WN made mention of flying into SFO from SEA?
 
ScottB
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:51 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
Though, obviously, if fuel prices keep going higher that might give them second thoughts about adding new trans-cons to any market.

Perhaps that's true, but many of the features they offer to differentiate their product probably won't drive purchase decisions for most travelers on stage lengths under 90 minutes. How much value do TV, movies, food-for-sale, or first class add on routes like SFO-LAX, SFO-SAN, or SFO-SEA? How much more will factors like frequent flyer programs and better schedules give an advantage to incumbents like UA, AS, or WN?

Moreover, the number of dense short-haul routes (<1000 mi) that exist from SFO are in total about a dozen (including the alternate L.A. Basin airports), and they pretty much would be stuck in a fight with both UA and WN (from OAK/SJC) on all of them.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Like VXs other route selections they walk into the middle crowded and well served market.

Not just that, but also well-stimulated in terms of low fare availability. I don't see them growing these markets significantly, and as I said above, I don't believe the on-board amenities will win in these markets over fares and schedules.
 
B757capt
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:28 pm

The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:29 pm

I just saw on King5 tv in seattle that they said VX will start and fly up to 7 flights each day between SEA and SFO / LAX. I don't know where the discrepancy is, but 7 flights is a lot.

I'm really curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest markets. AS didn't do much to DL's 3 RJs between SEA and LAX, but other than that AS lives in a happy medium by dominating UA on the SEA-LAX route and being very comparable to UA on SEA-SFO.

[Edited 2007-12-12 12:52:46]

[Edited 2007-12-12 12:56:56]
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:39 pm



Quoting Mason (Reply 16):
I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route.

Running 2x ERJ.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest routes.

 checkmark  From a previous post of mine. AS top-10 O&D markets -- 6 of 10 are SEA-SoCal or SEA-Bay Area

City / Daily one-way O&D pax / Avg. Yield
1 Las Vegas - Seattle/Tacoma 842 / 13.2
2 Los Angeles - Seattle/Tacoma 750 / 13.7
3 Seattle/Tacoma - Santa Ana 611 / 14.1
4 Seattle/Tacoma - San Diego 588 / 14.4
5 Phoenix - Seattle/Tacoma 553 / 11.2
6 Seattle/Tacoma - San Jose 550 / 14.6
7 Seattle/Tacoma - Spokane 508 / 35.1
8 Oakland - Seattle/Tacoma 476 / 14.8
9 Seattle/Tacoma - Sacramento 408 / 16.7
10 Seattle/Tacoma - San Francisco 395 / 17.1
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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SANFan
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:49 pm

It looks to me like the VX route strategy is starting to take shape and it's no surprise that SFO and LAX appear to be "the" hubs -- this was fairly clear from the first flight announcements. Perhaps JFK was also to be at least a focus city but that may have already changed due to the congestion issues developing there. Maybe when MIA comes on board, we'll be able to tell more about that as we see exactly where they fly from Miami: what a choice -- either already-congested JFK or fuel-guzzling trans-cons to California!

It looks (at this point) like any further expansion from LAS and SAN is unlikely. I'm disappointed that there is no SAN-SEA service announcement -- a market with currently only 1 n/s carrier -- and surprised that Virgin has not entered the LAX-LAS market.

As has been mentioned in this thread, and many before it, a/c delivery delays are an important factor in VX's growth (or lack thereof) and I'm sure the fuel prices are affecting their plans as well. I imagine their primary goal right now is to add cities to their route map, even under pretty tough circumstances. I continue to hope that after an initial surge of such expansion activity, perhaps they will go back and fill in some P-2-P markets between exisiting stations.

bb
 
MAH4546
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:57 pm



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
Maybe when MIA comes on board, we'll be able to tell more about that as we see exactly where they fly from Miami: what a choice -- either already-congested JFK or fuel-guzzling trans-cons to California!

3x JFK, 2x SFO, 1x LAX was the plan as of last month.
a.
 
eghansen
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:16 pm



Quoting SANFan (Reply 21):
It looks to me like the VX route strategy is starting to take shape and it's no surprise that SFO and LAX appear to be "the" hubs -- this was fairly clear from the first flight announcements.

Sounds like they are emulating the JetBlue strategy. Big hub in a major metro area on a coast.

If you took their route map and rotated 180 degrees, it would look almost like JetBlue in the early years: flights up and down the coast with transcons.
Nowadays, it is hard to tell when the commercials end and real life begins
 
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SANFan
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:17 pm

Also of interest might be the DOT figures (1Q07) showing (for the airports served by VX):

SEA-LAS...2139 O&D pax/day (total/both ways)
SEA-LAX...1898
SEA-SAN...1334
SEA-SFO...1283

Of course Laxintl's post (reply 20) also includes average yeilds (for AS) which are quite interesting too...

bb
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:32 pm



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
I'm really curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest markets

Obviously this will hurt AS' bottom line, but I think that they will compete very aggressively against VX in this market.
Yes, some traffic will shift to VX as people are curious about the inflight service hype.
The question is how long VX will stay in the market if they don't make any money in it.
You can bet that AS will offer the same or lower fare for flights at the same time that VX operates.
If VX thinks that they can just waltz in there and grab a bunch of customers and be profitable doing so, they
are in for a big surprise.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
SpencerII
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:44 pm



Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 25):
If VX thinks that they can just waltz in there and grab a bunch of customers and be profitable doing so, they
are in for a big surprise.

I'm certain they don't think that.. IN fact they know & understand it will take time to develop, although I know for a fact they decided to start this service as they have negotiated contracts from a very large California based company that utilizes these city pairs very very extensively, and the loss is to AS.
 
KELPkid
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
thought MIA was supposed to be the next market, but I guess not. I wouldn't be surprised if VX is a little anxious about announcing another transcon route with fuel prices as high as they are.

Why not? Transcons are money makers (if you can fill the bird with people...). The CASM goes down as stage length increases, because the aircraft is spending more time at cruise (where it is the most fuel effecient). The only worry I could see is if they're worried about sending a 1/2 empty plane across the USA and back.

I suppose if you think like WN, you look at long transcons as opportunities wasted, because you can generate more revenue per seat on the same aircraft selling walkup and last minute tickets on short hops  Wink
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Lono
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:54 pm



Quoting United777 (Reply 11):
As a frequent flier from Seattle to SFO i'm EXCITED!! I've always loved AS for the last 15 years even QX as they are adding more flights to the Bay Area thruogh PDX but I just don't have anymore faith in AS service anymore. It's all gone downhill for AS. Virgin America is going to do great in SEA!!



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Disagree. I think VX is going after AS rather than WN



Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 25):
You can bet that AS will offer the same or lower fare for flights at the same time that VX operates.
If VX thinks that they can just waltz in there and grab a bunch of customers and be profitable doing so, they
are in for a big surprise.

When VX was first announced ..... AS management boys took notice and it was put on their threat list...
When VX was first announced I always thought they would be gunning for AS.... They saw AS niche and also how AS has letting their service levels go down.... I am not surprised to see them in SEA... about time too!!!
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
eva777sea
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:21 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
3x JFK, 2x SFO, 1x LAX was the plan as of last month.

Just like how SEA was only supposed to see service to SFO, right?
 
rwsea
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:23 pm

VX steps in where others continue to stagnate.

As had been mentioned, the service and reliability of AS has been in a downward spiral in recent years. I no longer consider AS to be reliable for short-hops down to SFO when I am under a time crunch.

UA still is doing ok to SFO, but they're cutting some of the LAX flights back to CR7s! This is more a symbol of UA's failure to maintain their west coast position and their shortage of mainline jets than a problem with demand.

DL's LAX service simply isn't competitive. No one is going to pick a 50-seat RJ on a flight shortly over 2-hours when you have 16-18 other daily flights on mainline jets (between AS and UA).

Will be interesting to see what happens.
 
Osprey88
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:35 pm



Quoting Lono (Reply 28):
When VX was first announced ..... AS management boys took notice and it was put on their threat list...
When VX was first announced I always thought they would be gunning for AS.... They saw AS niche and also how AS has letting their service levels go down.... I am not surprised to see them in SEA... about time too!!!

As has been said before, it will be interesting to see how AS responds, and I hope it is in not just cutting prices, but also increasing service levels. AS service has been rapidly deteriorating over the past years, and as you have said, VX is looking to capitalize on this.

I think it would be quite interesting if VX, decided to really attack AS markets and started SFO/LAX-PDX and maybe the odd Mexican route from SAN.
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
MAH4546
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 29):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 22):
3x JFK, 2x SFO, 1x LAX was the plan as of last month.

Just like how SEA was only supposed to see service to SFO, right?

And plans change, right? Of course they do, which is why I said, as of last month.

Just like as of last month, SEA was only set to get SFO, and now they'll also be getting LAX flights.

Airline plans can change on an week-by-week basis.

[Edited 2007-12-12 15:45:21]
a.
 
Mason
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:35 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 27):
Why not? Transcons are money makers (if you can fill the bird with people...). The CASM goes down as stage length increases, because the aircraft is spending more time at cruise (where it is the most fuel effecient). The only worry I could see is if they're worried about sending a 1/2 empty plane across the USA and back.

I've always heard this, so what makes them so efficient in the thin air? I know my car gets better milage and performance at sea level than up in the Utah/Colorado mountains, what is different with a turbofan?
 
threeifbyair
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:00 am



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 19):
I'm really curious if AS will retaliate against VX. VX is now entering 2 of their 5 biggest markets. AS didn't do much to DL's 3 RJs between SEA and LAX, but other than that AS lives in a happy medium by dominating UA on the SEA-LAX route and being very comparable to UA on SEA-SFO.

AS isn't NW by any means when it comes to retalliation, but I'm sure we'll see some good deals to both cities. Not a whole lot else for AS to do - LAX already has so many daily flights that adding another doesn't have a huge effect. I don't think VX will be having a great time on LAX, but fares to SFO have always been more expensive than OAK/SJC by a fair amount. Might be an opportunity there.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:04 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 15):
Dude, that is what a pen and paper is for...write it down to remind you next time! LOL!

Then how do I remember where I put the paper afterward?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
GMUAirbusA320
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:15 am

Man, this is GREAT news! I put in for the Station Sup position at Dulles and got a call back for an interview, sadly, it was right before I left. Now, I'm in Seattle and just put in for the Sup. position as well. Hopefully, I can get an interview for this one!  Smile Perhaps my experience at B6 and DH can be put to good use!

Cheers,
GMUAirbusA320
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:21 am

Is UA flying RJs on LAX-SEA?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:29 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 35):
Then how do I remember where I put the paper afterward?

That is what a date book is for, you have one of those......right??  rotfl 

Back to the thread, I wonder what Billy Boy Ayer is going to do right now. Seems like the Alaska 2010 plan might get backshelved for a bit.... If AS starts losing customrs to VX, AS is going to feel a pinch...a VERY painful pinch.

We'll have to see how AS responds. I hope they respond quickly, efficiently and correctly. AS cannot afford to screw this up!!!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
baw716
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:36 am



Quoting Mason (Reply 16):
I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route

No, DL is still operating this route with RJs. (EMB145s).

Virgin America coming to Seattle is a good thing. It won't affect AS too much, but it will hit UA pretty hard. In the SFO-SEA market, schedule is everything; VX will have to do better than a few flights a day to compete with AS and UA...

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
Lono
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:37 am

Lets hope they don't use menzies for their ground handling.... !!!

The service issue is what VX is shooting for.... and AS is in their sights.... PDX is on the "Horizon".....

This is going to get very interesting.... AS needed this wake up call...
Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:41 am



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 37):
Is UA flying RJs on LAX-SEA?

With upcoming January schedule change as UA absorbs additional 70 seat ExPlus(3 class F, E+ and Y) CR7s, two of the four daily LAX-SEA flights will be run on the CR7. Similarly all four LAX-PDX flights also become ExPlus in January.

Personally I'd rather fly a clean new ExPlus bird then the tired 737s.

(Dont forget Alaska/Horizon also make use of CR7s between both PDX & SEA to LAX)
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:48 am



Quoting Lono (Reply 40):
AS needed this wake up call...

 checkmark  I fear that AS has slept too long under Billy Boy Ayer's dictatorship.... Time will tell how things unfold, and its going to get very interesting for this market and at Wall Street.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:52 am



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 37):
Is UA flying RJs on LAX-SEA?

UA is mostly mainline, but this winter is going down to just 4 daily flights. You'll see everything on the route. UA has scheduled CR7s, 737s, A320s and 757s between SEA and LAX.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
(Dont forget Alaska/Horizon also make use of CR7s between both PDX & SEA to LAX)

I don't think QX has ever operated a CR7 between SEA and LAX. AS usually has about 12 mainline flights per day. QX doesn't serve much of a purpose.

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 39):
Quoting Mason (Reply 16):
I thought DL pulled out of the LAX-SEA route

No, DL is still operating this route with RJs. (EMB145s).

DL varies between 2 and 3 daily flights. Certain days they will add a mainline flight, but that is rare. It's almost excluslively the RJs, which makes it hard for DL to compete agains AS and UA although frequent fliers might not care. DL's total seats in the market is about 5% of what AS offers.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 am



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 43):
I don't think QX has ever operated a CR7 between SEA and LAX.

Sure they do.

Daily #2606 LAX-SEA 1100-1340lt and flight #2607 SEA-LAX 1420-1659lt on Horizon CR7s.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:04 am



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
Airline plans can change on an week-by-week basis.

This is so important. Folks get bashed on this board repeatedly for providing "bad" information, when in reality, many times the information changes.

What do people here want, the best information at the time, or no information at all? I know I'd take the former every time.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 42):
I fear that AS has slept too long

Slept? Perhaps. Breathed? Absolutely.

I'm sure there are folks who could have done things differently at Alaska and had a better outcome, but I doubt it's you or I. The fact that AS is alive and kicking in 2007 is a testament to the leadership that they have had - whether you agree with that leadership or not.

And yes, I know the come-back is "No, it's a testament to the employees...", which is all well and good, but while saying that sounds nice, and to a degree is relevent, it doesn't equate to running a company as large as AS.

-Dave
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rwsea
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:24 am



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 44):
Sure they do.

Daily #2606 LAX-SEA 1100-1340lt and flight #2607 SEA-LAX 1420-1659lt on Horizon CR7s.

Yes, but that's more of a repositioning flight and there's still 10+ daily AS flights to choose from on mainline. UA is now going to be 50% RJ.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:36 am



Quoting RwSEA (Reply 46):
Yes, but that's more of a repositioning flight

Repositioning flight?

QX does plenty of LAX CR7 flying including 3 PDX flights, so they certainly dont need a SEA flight to swap planes out. Additionally and more importantly 2606/2607 LAX-SEA-LAX is a turn most days with the same plane.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
KELPkid
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:42 am



Quoting Mason (Reply 33):
I've always heard this, so what makes them so efficient in the thin air? I know my car gets better milage and performance at sea level than up in the Utah/Colorado mountains, what is different with a turbofan?

Well, since you're into the car analogies...does your car burn more gas with the cruise set at 65 or while going up a 6-7% grade in the mountains where the car (or you if you own a stick), is constantly downshifting?

As for why an aircraft is more effecient at it's cruise altitude, airplanes have this thing called induced drag (which increases as a square of speed)...when the air is thinner, there's remarkably less of it  Smile (induced drag, that is...), so the engines have less work to do to overcome it. In fact, many airliners have to throttle way back in cruise to avoid going over their Mmo (Maximum operating mach number) speed.

The aircraft is usually at full power, or close to it, during climb, where the aircraft is essentially trading excess thrust for altitude.

Descent often isn't much more effecient in an airliner, either, as many jets have to carry lots of power at certain stages of descent to do things like maintain glideslopes, maintain altitude in landing configuration at low airspeed behind the power curve, comply with ATC instructions, level off after a steep descent, etc.
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laca773
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RE: Virgin America SFO-SEA And LAX-SEA

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:43 am



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7):
capitalize on perceived discontent w/ service levels. AS has had some well publicized service burps over the last couple years, and no matter how big a fan you are of AS (like me), you can't deny that the service is no where near what it was a few years ago.
My prediction is that many people will try it, some will make the switch, but AS will compete well on price, and in the end, price rules for the vast majority of travelers, meaning that just as they did with WN, AS will hold its own, and the two airlines will co-exist. I think if anyone takes a hit in these markets it will be UA. With their declining share in the region and no other strong Star partner here in Seattle, incentives to stick w/ United are lacking.

This brings up many things about what AS might do on these important routes of theirs. How are they going to differenate their product from VX? It seems AS is a lot like WN now minus the F cabin. Service in the main cabin is identical on AS to that of UA & WN.
Will AS bring back complimentary meal/snack service, add PTVs to compete with VX. If they did these things it would also help their product differenation on their transcons and on their flights to Mexico where AM & MX offer a better product.

Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 37):
Is UA flying RJs on LAX-SEA?



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):

With upcoming January schedule change as UA absorbs additional 70 seat ExPlus(3 class F, E+ and Y) CR7s, two of the four daily LAX-SEA flights will be run on the CR7. Similarly all four LAX-PDX flights also become ExPlus in January

UA LAX-SEA
Current 14 December - Future: 7 January 2008
#714/6am/752 ------>6105/8:26a/CRJ
#396/11:03a/319---->396/10:56a/733
#854/3:11p/320------>854/1:05p/733
#244/7:35p/319------>6107/7:45p/CR7
SEA-LAX
#1167/6am/733------>6108/6am/CR7
#123/11:52a/320---->6110/11:41a/CR7
#1175/3:55p/733---->1175/3:32p/733
#703/6:35p/752------>703/5:45p/319

There's definitely some remarkable changes. I thought UA was doing better than it appears they are in the LAX-SEA & PDX markets.

LACA773

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