IAHFLYR
Topic Author
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

"Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:47 pm

Found this article on "Air Traffic Dangers" and some interesting things caught my attention:

http://www.wrex.com/News/index.php?ID=24604

First thing that comes to mind, if both the aircraft mentioned in the article at JFK were in fact landing on the runways the video shows, 13L and 22L, then I'm curious what else might have been going on as these 2 runways do not intersect even though the extended centerline of 13L does cross 22L......but that in it self does not constitute a need for a go around, it is presumed that the arrivals normally stop before the end of the runway IIRC!  Confused

Next, an emergency meeting has been requested by NATCA....excellent now let us hope that things are put on the table and address the issues, something that should have been been done many years ago.

Then, the NTSB is disappointed in the FAA slow response! That should not be a surprise, been that way for years.

Anyone else have information from this event that might shed some light on things the article brings up, primarily the reason for the go- around?

Thanks
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ATCGOD
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:24 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:10 pm



Quoting IAHFLYR (Thread starter):
Next, an emergency meeting has been requested by NATCA....excellent now let us hope that things are put on the table and address the issues, something that should have been been done many years ago.

Then, the NTSB is disappointed in the FAA slow response! That should not be a surprise, been that way for years.

Anyone else have information from this event that might shed some light on things the article brings up, primarily the reason for the go- around?

Unfortunately, nothing will change. The FAA is the epitome of what Americans have come to believe about their government.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:31 pm

The problem is, and everyone knows it, is that to "fix" the problems would require time, effort, and money, and NOBODY is willing to admit that there is a problem. It's easier to maintain the status quo and pass the problem on to someone else down the line than it is to stand up and take charge.

What is needed is a COMPLETE overhaul of the air traffic system, from ATC to airspace vectoring to the needed redesign of certain cities' airspace to overscheduling beyond capacity (even on perfect days!) to multiple hour delays on the tarmac to inclement weather problems to dealing with NIMBY's. Even on the best of days, the system barely works. Throw in ANY complications at all - from weather to a misunderstanding between perfect English speaking pilots and ATC personnel - and we're just one mishap away from a catastrophic failure.

Some things, such as TCAS, have helped tremendously, as has "Cockpit Resource Management Systems" (eliminating the Sky Gods concept) as has ground & Doppler radar - but the human element remains in there, with very little if anything being done to address that.

On NBC's Today Show, they demonstrated the problem between the Eva Air 747 and the American Eagle RJ and how both avoided a collision at the last second. In doing so, they pointed out the problems that we a.netter's know all too well - overworked ATC, overscheduled airports, overtaxed systems, and overcrowded airspace.

I am reminded of a twist on an old saying - "well, yes, the Emperor has no clothes on, but now it's fashionable to be naked!". The passengers know the system is broken, the airlines know the system is broken, the ATC knows the system is broken, congress knows the system is broken - but it's the 800 pound gorilla in the room that no one talks about. I pray that it will not take bodies to wake the country up that something needs to be done, but I'm not hopeful.

(thunk, thunk) That's me climbing down off my soapbox. Thanks for reading my rant.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
IAHFLYR
Topic Author
Posts: 3944
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:37 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
That's me climbing down off my soapbox. Thanks for reading my rant.

Rant on pal.......you won't get any disagreements from me!

I'm still curious about the reason the reported go-around was even issued, something else had to be taking place.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:51 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
The problem is, and everyone knows it, is that to "fix" the problems would require time, effort, and money, and NOBODY is willing to admit that there is a problem. It's easier to maintain the status quo and pass the problem on to someone else down the line than it is to stand up and take charge.

The problem is that it will probably take a true near miss, the planes will not miss but actually collide, before anything is done. Nothing motivates action like a high body count.  Sad
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
ATCGOD
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:24 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:56 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
overworked ATC, overscheduled airports, overtaxed systems, and overcrowded airspace.

Checkmate. Very well said.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
Nothing motivates action like a high body count.

True, and it's coming to that. We keep putting more and more planes in the air and less and less ATC'ers doing more work with an antiquated system and it equals disaster. Sooner or later it'll happen.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 2):
and NOBODY is willing to admit that there is a problem.

Well, NATCA knows there's a problem. They'll be in great bargaining shape if a disaster happens.
 
speedbird128
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:30 am

RE: "Air Traffic Dangers" Article?

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:56 am



Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 5):
They'll be in great bargaining shape if a disaster happens.

And the buck will probably stop at the controllers desk...

This attitude towards safety is a world-wide problem within ATC management... It's appalling at the end of the day - there is no F1 button for help, or ESC to start the game over... They just don't get it...
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