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readytotaxi
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BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:59 pm

BA time table for April now offers a second flight to MCO from Gatwick, BA2038 BA2039, B777, have they pulled this from a less profitable route in the US and are they chasing the Virgin market share, presume it will be the same class config with no First class available. Perhaps the weak dollar long term makes BA spot a revenue opportunity.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
KLMA330
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:08 pm

I was in Orlando twice this year visiting family that lives there. It's Little Britain alright! LOL
 
B752OS
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:15 pm



Quoting Readytotaxi (Thread starter):
BA time table for April now offers a second flight to MCO from Gatwick, BA2038 BA2039, B777, have they pulled this from a less profitable route in the US and are they chasing the Virgin market share, presume it will be the same class config with no First class available. Perhaps the weak dollar long term makes BA spot a revenue opportunity.

Which route did they pull this from? I assume this 777 they are sending is going to be in the 2-class layout of the existing 777 that flies LGW-MCO.
 
usairways85
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:23 pm

Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW and 1x from MAN all on 744's and don't they fly GLA-MCO during the winter?

I think it will be hard for BA to take much of a market from VS.
 
theginge
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:27 pm

They haven't pulled anything. They will have moved the IAH and DFW to LHR so it frees up a bit of space at Gatwick, hence why they have added the additional Orlando.

I think the 777's to do this will be partly funded by a 777 coming up from LGW and also some moving around of the existing LHR fleets.

[Edited 2007-12-13 09:29:25]
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:00 pm



Quoting B752OS (Reply 2):

The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
gkirk
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:06 pm



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):
The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Don't BA have some 4 class out of LGW doing the BGI flights for example?
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:32 pm



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):

I think they do on that route, but no First to Orlando or I would be on it.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
speedmarque
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:33 pm

Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):
The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Thats Club World,World Traveller Plus and World Traveller!  

[Edited 2007-12-13 10:34:15]
 
B752OS
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:44 pm



Quoting Readytotaxi (Reply 5):

Quoting B752OS (Reply 2):

The B777 out of Gatwick is 3 Class, Club, Premium Economy, and economy

Let me rephrase that then. Are they going to be in the same setup as the existing MCO flight, where there is club, traveler plus and traveler? Or for example on LHR-JFK there is First, Club, Traveler Plus and Traveler.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:44 pm

British Airways is not doubling flights to MCO. The new frequency is 3x weekly.
a.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:40 pm



Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 3):
Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW

VS scaled LGW - MCO back to 2x daily quite a while back.
 
elmothehobo
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:02 pm



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 6):
Don't BA have some 4 class out of LGW doing the BGI flights for example?

As well as Houston, Dallas and Atlanta IIRC.
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:20 pm

I think BA are trying to add more frequency to MCO because it is quite a profitable route for them now. The premium cabins are nearly always full also.
Ive also heard that a lot of VS traffic is in Y. Bearing in mind that BA are to send x2 777's on some days makes sense. Ive heard that VS dont make much money on the MCO route because they sell so many seats in Y. This may be the reason they put x2 flights on a day so that they can get more premium pax out to MCO.
BA sending x2 777's on some days means that they can sell more premium seats and to MCO and although sending more Y pax it isnt costing as much as VS. A 747 costs more to fly than a 777

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:48 pm



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 13):
I think BA are trying to add more frequency to MCO because it is quite a profitable route for them now. The premium cabins are nearly always full also.
Ive also heard that a lot of VS traffic is in Y. Bearing in mind that BA are to send x2 777's on some days makes sense. Ive heard that VS dont make much money on the MCO route because they sell so many seats in Y. This may be the reason they put x2 flights on a day so that they can get more premium pax out to MCO.
BA sending x2 777's on some days means that they can sell more premium seats and to MCO and although sending more Y pax it isnt costing as much as VS. A 747 costs more to fly than a 777

It's the entire opposite. Orlando has traditionally been a money-losing operation for British Airways, but it is a very important destination to serve given how huge a how huge a market it is from the United Kingdom. I don’t know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Virgin Atlantic has always done extremely well at MCO. They fly there with planes configured in an extremely high density configuration with very little premium seats (Miami and Boston, for example, have significantly less Virgin Atlantic capacity than Orlando, yet have slight more Upper Class seats) that make it easy to profit.
a.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:45 am



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
It's the entire opposite. Orlando has traditionally been a money-losing operation for British Airways, but it is a very important destination to serve given how huge a how huge a market it is from the United Kingdom. I don’t know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

It would go totally against the principles of operation at BA to expand a poor yielding route. All the BA decisions you see on this board are primarily to do with financial performance. Their big aim is to acheive a 10% operating profit. Quite how you compensate for poor yield on a route by increasing capacity escapes me; I feel that if the yield was poor on LGW - MCO BA would be reducing capacity, not increasing it
 
sam1987
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:51 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
British Airways is not doubling flights to MCO. The new frequency is 3x weekly.

...which makes 10 weekly BA flights between LGW and MCO - not bad.

How long until the BA leisure destinations that are still at LHR move down to LGW? Could NAS, for example, sustain a 777 from LGW?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
VS scaled LGW - MCO back to 2x daily quite a while back.

Without meaning to sound rude, I think BA and VS serve different markets - thus they complement each other on many routes.
Next flights: LGW-LBA-LGW, LHR-SIN-SYD, SYD-BKK-LHR, LGW-GRO, GRO-CIA, CIA-MAD, MAD-LGW
 
bobnwa
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:07 pm



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
know how the flights have been doing as of recent, but the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Please explain how that works. Is that like the old retailing joke about losing money on every transaction but making up for it in volume?
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:38 pm



Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):

Without meaning to sound rude, I think BA and VS serve different markets - thus they complement each other on many routes.

I kind of agree with this, I think Virgin could operate a 747 on this route offering only Premium Economy and Economy and still fill the seats.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:35 pm



Quoting Sam1987 (Reply 16):
How long until the BA leisure destinations that are still at LHR move down to LGW? Could NAS, for example, sustain a 777 from LGW?

Nassau is a premium leisure destination. I don't think it will move.

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 15):
Quite how you compensate for poor yield on a route by increasing capacity escapes me; I feel that if the yield was poor on LGW - MCO BA would be reducing capacity, not increasing it

You can always compensate for poor yield by making up for it in volume. The yield doesn't get better, but the operation can get more profitable, when you take into account things like fixed operating costs for running the station.
a.
 
David_itl
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:04 pm



Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 3):
Considering VS already has 3x day from LGW and 1x from MAN all on 744's and don't they fly GLA-MCO during the winter?

MAN-MCO operates up to 9 or 10 weekly in summer, and up to 8 weekly in winter. GLA-MCO only operated about 6 times this year but will be around 15 or 16 times this coming summer (note: this service causes them to drop the MAN-MCO service by 1 flight a week when it operates)
 
Sketty222
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:14 am



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
the new flights could be simply an opportunity to make up for poor yield with more capacity.

Virgin Atlantic has always done extremely well at MCO. They fly there with planes configured in an extremely high density configuration with very little premium seats (Miami and Boston, for example, have significantly less Virgin Atlantic capacity than Orlando, yet have slight more Upper Class seats) that make it easy to profit.

How do you make up for poor yield with adding another flight? this would mean having poor yeild on at least two aircraft instead of one.
You hit the nail on the head when you say that VS have very few Premium seats but this is were BA make they're money. You have to sell a lot of Y seats to make a profit on a lfight whereas you dont have to sell anywhere near a smany Premium seats to make the same kind of cash. BA dont have the aircraft at LGW to add extra capacity Premium seats to an aircraft at LW so they must therefore add another aircraft. I would like to think that with Florida growing even more in the next few years BA could start to go TPA daily and maybe add extra frequencies to the MCO route maikin it a double daily flight........... if it doesnt work then yes, pull the extra frequencies and try to add them eslewhere......................................Cash is King after all


Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:39 am



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 21):
How do you make up for poor yield with adding another flight? this would mean having poor yeild on at least two aircraft instead of one.

Again, more flights, more seats to sell, it lowers the fixed costs, poor yields are made up for. I didn't say yields get better, but there are other parts of the operation that can become more profitable through additional capacity, allowing the overall performance of a route to improve. Plus, there is possible additional cargo revenue, and when you offer more cargo capacity, you become more attractive to the heavier shippers.
a.
 
L1011dal
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:06 am

I thought I read BA was pulling out of DTW and that provided more capacity for another market - MCO and somewhere else.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:16 am



Quoting L1011dal (Reply 23):
I thought I read BA was pulling out of DTW and that provided more capacity for another market - MCO and somewhere else.

Not related. Detroit was served out of Heathrow with the Heathrow-based fleet. Orlando is served from Gatwick with a Gatwick-based fleet. BA is transferring Houston and Dallas flights to Gatwick, leaving only Atlanta, Orlando, and Tampa. Though I'm not really sure where the capacity is coming from, because DFW and IAH, IIRC, used the low-density planes with first class, while Orlando (and Tampa) does not.
a.
 
alangirvan
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:23 am

In the Economy part of the Cabin, how do BA and VS operate against all the UK IT carriers who are flying in the same market? Do BA and VS sell a lot of seats through wholesalers, or do they sell a lot of seats direct to the public? Is a high density VS 744 a better experience than a very old 747 flown by some carriers? Are the Premium Economy passengers travelling to holiday units that they own?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:47 am



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 25):
In the Economy part of the Cabin, how do BA and VS operate against all the UK IT carriers who are flying in the same market? Do BA and VS sell a lot of seats through wholesalers, or do they sell a lot of seats direct to the public? Is a high density VS 744 a better experience than a very old 747 flown by some carriers? Are the Premium Economy passengers travelling to holiday units that they own?

Many of the VS passengers flying to MCO have booked via Virgin Holidays, which provides VS with a good feed on both their USA leisure orientated routes and the carribbean as well.
With regard to premium economy. last time I flew with VS to MCO, there appeared to be a fair bit of selling upgrades from economy to premium economy at check in. If this is the case I would assume that these upgrades would be less expensive than the book in advance price; never the less premium economy seemed to be a far larger operation for VS on these routes than for BA, for whom WTP is always a relatively small cabin.
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA Double Flights To MCO Starting April.

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:55 am



Quoting Alangirvan (Reply 25):
Are the Premium Economy passengers travelling to holiday units that they own?

A lot of the premium economy passengers on VS' MCO flights are upgrades from economy. Likewise, a lot of the Upper Class passengers on VS' MCO flights are upgrades from Premium Economy.

There is barely any premium demand in the Orlando-UK market. Hence the high-density configurations and cheap premium fares in the market. Just for comparison, Virgin's Upper Class fares to Orlando start at $2,800, compared to $4,520 for Boston, the next cheapest, and $5,225 for nearby Miami.
a.

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