Flying-Tiger
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Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:14 am



Quote:
Asiana Airlines Inc., South Korea's second-largest carrier, plans to add 20 more aircraft by 2012 as it expands routes to Europe and North America.



Quote:
The carrier is considering Boeing Co.'s 787 and 747-8 as well as Airbus SAS's A380 and A350, the spokesman said. The airline will make a decision as early as March next year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601080&sid=aTnMPrrClqIY&refer=asia

Hard to call IMO - can imagine all options.

[Edited 2007-12-13 23:15:48]
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ikramerica
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:22 am

Well, if they need them by 2012? The 787 is sold out, the 748 is available for a few frames, the A380 is sold out, and the A350 is not available at all until 2014 at the earliest, probably 2015.

So then all it is saying is they are going to order some widebodies sometime before 2012, which is not really much news. I mean, I plan on buying a house somewhere in the USA by 2012. But don't hold me to that.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
centrair
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:05 am

This is a hard one to place. I can't imagine any order of the A380 or 748i in anything more than single digits. The rest of the order would be doubles. I wonder what kind of jump the 744Combi to the 748i and for that matter to the A380 would be for them?

The A350 and 787 are really up for grabs.

Anyone know their long-term plans for expansion? They have been fairly conservative compared to KE when it comes to expansion.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
777ER
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:10 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Well, if they need them by 2012? The 787 is sold out, the 748 is available for a few frames, the A380 is sold out, and the A350 is not available at all until 2014 at the earliest, probably 2015.

I suspect Airbus will come to the party, like they have been recently and give some A330s as temp lift
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:23 am

Could they also be a destination for some of the ILFC A380 frames (or have they been deferred post 2013?)
 
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moo
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:32 am



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Well, if they need them by 2012? The 787 is sold out, the 748 is available for a few frames, the A380 is sold out, and the A350 is not available at all until 2014 at the earliest, probably 2015.

There are at least 8 pre-2013 slots free due to deferrals by other airlines.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:59 am

Since neither OEM has what you could call "the inside track" at Asiana, this is an interesting one. There are no politics involved, and I think thei business model is versatile enough to incorporate the 787 and A350 on similar terms. I've long questioned whether they have a need for a VLA - KE obviously think they do and OZ may feel compelled to respond as it is hard to envisage them retaining market share on their Heathrow and Los Angeles trunk routes using 772 equipment when KE start with their A388s and much, much-improved new product across all classes. I dont think they need a VLA right now, but as so often on here, people are judging current markets and current operators on tomorrow's plane - they may not need it now, but by 2013 that could very well have changed.

Normally you can call it one way or the other, but I seriously think the best plane for the job at the best price will win the day here. Am going to watch this one closely.

My guess is in the next 12 years they are going to need:

A350XWB-900 x 16 w.12 options and 8 x A332s as interim lift.
A320 x 18 w. 10 options.
A388 x 4 w. 2 options.
77W X 7 (think they still have that orphan one on order dont they?)
77F x 5 w. 5 options.
748F x 5

I fancy the A350 and A380 order to be the first ones made, and they should break down to about 20 frames all told. Could just as easily go to 787-9 and 748I though - is so hard to predict.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
LOT767SP-LPA
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:31 pm

What about new destination, i mean if they get new aircrafts, on which routes Asiana use those planes to Europe and North America (except Paris which is already announced), any suggestions? Maybe Warsaw or other Eastern European city?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:57 pm

A tough one indeed...

I am guessing KE is flying 744s to LHR so I am not sure OZ feels they need to match capacity. As such, they may not choose the A380. They are flying 744s to JFK so if KE launches A388 service there, OZ might feel the need to match.

OZ is phasing out at least one 744M, leaving two. The 747-8I would have the non-passenger-bag cargo edge on the A380, especially since OZ flies a higher-capacity config in their 744s so we could see their A388s around 550 seats ala LH. So using LH's 748 and A388 pax numbers, the 747-8I would offer OZ 7 to 8 more LD3 positions for non-passenger cargo.

They seem to use their 77Es with the A333s for short-haul high density, so this might make them a 787-9 and especially a 787-10 customer. They also have 767-300s which would favor the 787-8.

Now they do fly 77Es on long-haul missions, as well, which would favor the A350-900, but perhaps Boeing could offer a killer deal on 77Ls.

[Edited 2007-12-14 07:58:03]
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:40 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Well, if they need them by 2012? The 787 is sold out, the 748 is available for a few frames, the A380 is sold out, and the A350 is not available at all until 2014 at the earliest, probably 2015.

Right now production slots will determine what they can expand with near term. However as Chris points out above, they could accept A332's short term as placeholders before switching to A350's or even A380's.  Wink

77W's could be placed.

As to 748's... Boeing can increase production fairly quickly. So that alone might allow a few 748I's to find their way into the world's fleets.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:50 pm



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
My guess is in the next 12 years they are going to need:

A350XWB-900 x 16 w.12 options and 8 x A332s as interim lift.
A320 x 18 w. 10 options.
A388 x 4 w. 2 options.
77W X 7 (think they still have that orphan one on order dont they?)
77F x 5 w. 5 options.
748F x 5

Hmmmm.........

Let's start with the B-777-300ER/A-350-900/A-330-200 question. If they were going to order the B-777-200LRF, why wouldn't they also take the B-777-300ER, too? That way they can get their airframes earlier than the A-350-900, which isn't available until 2015 at the earliest, and they don't need the "interim lift" of the A-330s.

The same question with the B-747-8F. If you are going to take the -8Fs, why wouldn't you also take the B-747-8i? Putting the A-380 in that mix makes no sense at all from a fleet prospective.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
A tough one indeed...



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
They seem to use their 77Es with the A333s for short-haul high density, so this might make them a 787-9 and especially a 787-10 customer.

Wouldn't that make them a potential B-787-3 customer?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
I am guessing KE is flying 744s to LHR so I am not sure OZ feels they need to match capacity. As such, they may not choose the A380. They are flying 744s to JFK so if KE launches A388 service there, OZ might feel the need to match.

If OZ does not feel they need to match airplane capacity with KE to LHR, why would they feel they need to match airplane capacity to JFK? OZ could just choose the B-747-8i for both routes and have a slighly different product than KE.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:59 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
Wouldn't that make them a potential B-787-3 customer?

It could well do, is there any news on the 787-3 as it doesn't seem to be getting much traction as a variant with moderate sales and not being certified in Europe.
 
aa1818
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:27 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
They seem to use their 77Es with the A333s for short-haul high density, so this might make them a 787-9 and especially a 787-10 customer. They also have 767-300s which would favor the 787-8.

Now they do fly 77Es on long-haul missions, as well, which would favor the A350-900, but perhaps Boeing could offer a killer deal on 77Ls.

Couldn't they also use the -9 on long haul. I think Boeing would be shocked to see their 787-9 not counted as a long-haul mission. The -9 should have more range than the 77E, although less capacity, which might point to the proposed -10X.

I hope this one goes Boeing!

AA1818
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Stitch
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 10):
Wouldn't that make them a potential B-787-3 customer?

Could be... Most of Japan and Western China along with a good chunk of Southeast Asia is within the 1250nm MZFW range of the 787-3 from ICN.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 12):
Couldn't they also use the -9 on long haul.

They certainly could, but they'd give up some capacity.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:17 pm



Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 11):
is there any news on the 787-3 as it doesn't seem to be getting much traction as a variant with moderate sales and not being certified in Europe.

I see DL as a potential B-787-3 customer.

Why isn't the B-787-3 going to be certified in Europe?
 
BP1
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:20 pm

Glad to hear this. Asiana is a fantastic carrier and a well kept secret here in the USA. I sincerely hope Asiana adds either additional frequencies to Seoul from the USA or adds more US cities. Perhaps the talks with North Korea are continuing in progress and OZ knows something we don't. Regardless, a fantastic carrier with the most attentive cabin crew I have ever experienced.

Hello Phoenix - Perhaps? With the Star Alliance tie in, maybe OZ could team up with USAirways at PHX and feed traffic through USAirways' PHX hub.

Cheers,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
 
kith
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:26 pm

Anyone have any insight on their new F, J and Y that is apparently flying on one of their 744's?
 
airbazar
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:30 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Well, if they need them by 2012? The 787 is sold out, the 748 is available for a few frames, the A380 is sold out, and the A350 is not available at all until 2014 at the earliest, probably 2015.

"The carrier has not yet decided whether it will buy or lease the planes"
If they want them by 2012 they will have to lease them, it's that simple.
Now it's a matter of figuring out which leasing companies have what aircraft available for lease starting in 2012  Smile
 
BP1
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:55 pm

Hi KITH,

I recently flew LAX-ICN-SYD on the 747 from LAX and 777 from ICN to SYD in Business. The 747 had the old seats, but as you probably already know, the service from the crew more than makes up for the seat. The 777 with the (2) cabin configuration with the Cocoon seat in Business Class and the AVOD is fantastic. I recently flew on THAI in their cocoon Business Class seats and it just was not the same as Asiana.

The color scheme on the 777's interior is peaceful, clean and crisp. The cocoon seat is really the way to go - - can't wait until those seats are installed on the 747.

Cheers,
BP1
"First To Fly The A-380" / 26 October 2007 SYD-SIN Inaugural
 
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Stitch
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:25 pm



Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 14):
Why isn't the B-787-3 going to be certified in Europe?

At this time, Boeing has no customers for the model in Europe. While normally this would not matter, EASA wants more money or something to certify the 787-3 and Boeing is balking.

If an EU operator wants the plane, Boeing will pay the extra money to certify it, but until that time, they feel it is not worth the expenditure.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Asiana To Order 20 Planes

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:27 pm

There was a news article in Korea about Asiana's future fleet delivery. It was a major newspaper, but not very accurate since 767 is also there..

2007: 1 320, 3 321, 1 767, 2 772, 1 330
2008: 3 320, 1 772
2009: 3 320, 1 772
2010: 4 320, 1 74F
2011: 2 320

So, in 2007, apparently 1 321 and 1 767(!) are left. And 15 more fleets to come between 2008-2011. Anyway I hope the news in this thread involves some of 350/380/787/773/748.

Also, the CEO of Asiana said that they may announce about new order in Feb 2008 at OZ's 15th year anniversary.