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First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:12 am

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/photos/01ARJ21.jpg

The first prototype of the ARJ 21 developed by China. Its first flight scheduled is for next year.

Source: http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=4295

More info: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/

 
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lindy field
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:26 am

Well, look at that. Guess the DC-9 or 717 isn't dead after all. Has Northwest considered ordering any of these?

Apparently the Chinese are using tooling provided by McDonnell Douglas for the MD-90 trunkliner program. It's no coincidence that the nose, tail, and cross-section of this aircraft look so familiar.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:31 am

Looks like a Boeing 717 and Fokker 70 / 100. Did they have help from Boeing to build this aircraft?

Regards,

Gerard
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BrianDromey
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:38 am



Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 2):
Looks like a Boeing 717 and Fokker 70 / 100. Did they have help from Boeing to build this aircraft?

Just what I was going to ask. If you look at the aircrafts homepage they have some cabin shots. The a/c looks very, very, very like the 737NG family, in terms of ceiling panels, lockers and sidewalls.

Brian.
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F9Animal
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:46 am

I really like it! I have always loved the DC-9 line, and this looks pretty close to it. I hope it does good in sales.
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extspotter
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:20 am

I wish it does well, the same with the Sukhoi, but I worry that airlines in the west will not buy it because of the media and people assuming that it cannot be safe because it is Chinese/Russian.
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Beaucaire
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:24 am

are there any budgetary pricings floating around ? Have not found any indications on the web?
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kappel
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:27 am



Quoting EXTspotter (Reply 5):
I wish it does well, the same with the Sukhoi, but I worry that airlines in the west will not buy it because of the media and people assuming that it cannot be safe because it is Chinese/Russian.

I think it's success outside of China will have less to do with perceived safety (it will have to be certified by the JAA and FAA anyway if it wants to fly in the west), but more with after-sales support. And of course efficiency, purchase price and maintenance. That's what killed most Russian project so far IMHO, lousy after sales support.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:28 am

They'll sell a ton of them in China...that'll keep production tied up for a very long time.
What the...?
 
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Vasu
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:35 am

Any idea about operating economics vs. its competitors?
 
miamix707
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:38 am



Quoting Lindy Field (Reply 1):
Well, look at that. Guess the DC-9 or 717 isn't dead after all. Has Northwest considered ordering any of these?

^^haha

the DC-9 is still alive, no way!

beautiful.. but how long has this project being going on for?

I had no idea this aircraft model existed..
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:46 am

It looks just like a DC9/ MD80/ MD90/ 717. But the nose is different.

Anyone knows how many orders the type has?
 
FCKC
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:31 am

The DC9 is reborn ! Maybe NW will have a look at it !
 
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Revelation
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:58 pm



Quoting Kappel (Reply 7):
I think it's success outside of China will have less to do with perceived safety (it will have to be certified by the JAA and FAA anyway if it wants to fly in the west), but more with after-sales support. And of course efficiency, purchase price and maintenance. That's what killed most Russian project so far IMHO, lousy after sales support.

 checkmark 

The average traveller can't tell you where the ATR/EMB/ERJ/CRJ/etc they are flying on is made, so unless there is some sort of scandal that emphasizes the plane's origin in a negative way, it should be fine.

As its Wikipedia site says, it has MD90 tooling, an Antonov-designed wing, GE power and Rockwell Collins avionics. Think of it as an outsourced MD90++!  Smile

I agree the key to sealing the deal with airlines outside of China will be the support network. Of course, one hopes there is enough quality in the product to not need extraordinary amounts of support, but in any case, there will always be a need for routine support.
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sibille
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:11 pm

Lao Airlines is the first export customer. They have two on order.
 
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 14):

A launch order has been received for 35 aircraft, for Shandong Airlines (ten), Shanghai Airlines (five) and Shenzhen Financial Leasing (20). In November 2006, Shanghai Electric Leasing (SE Leasing) signed a memorandum of understanding for 30 aircraft, and in August 2007, Lao Airlines of Laos signed an MoU for two aircraft.

The project started in 2002. I believe Bombardier is a partner in the programme (especially the engines resemble that of the CRJ) since this year, if I'm correct, it was announced at the Paris Airshow.

ARJ21 and DC9 compared:




[Edited 2007-12-15 08:30:36]
 
osiris30
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:34 pm

erfff.. the 900 looks like a potential tail strike victim on a regular basis.. is that thing even lower than the ol' maddogs?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
As its Wikipedia site says, it has MD90 tooling, an Antonov-designed wing, GE power and Rockwell Collins avionics. Think of it as an outsourced MD90++!

Love to get a better shot of the wings.. see what Antonov cooked up for it. hard to go wrong with GE power and RC-av
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KFLLCFII
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:41 pm

Heck, it even has the same nose...The lines are identical, except they dropped the center cockpit window for two larger Captain / FO panels...

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4590/01arj21uw8.jpg


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © DAD - Baires Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Borut Smrdelj



The front exit matches perfectly in its position, and so does the longitudinal line "joining" the upper and lower fuselage "halves" at floor-level.

This really is the second coming of the Mad Dog, folks...
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KarlB737
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:34 pm



Quoting PlunaCRJ (Reply 11):
It looks just like a DC9/ MD80/ MD90/ 717. But the nose is different.

Specifically it looks to me like a DC9-10 with a more pointed nose and of course updated engines. Now what do we know about the manufacturing company, and its production reliability, and the cost of this aircraft.

Most of all regarding Northwest I hope A-Net member Favre chimes in on this one. I wonder if Northwest even knows that this aircraft exists.................
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:39 pm

I do not know where you folks have been living, but it looks like an old design and as far as I am concerned reverse engineering by the other side of the political system is alive and well as far as aircraft goes. I guess in this politcally correct and global economy, we now call it co-operation and partnership.
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:44 pm



Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 19):

At least it's an improvement to the other Chinese manufactured aircraft, such as this one:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter de Jong



It's a government business, so it will be difficult to find out the real price of this aircraft.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:45 pm

I love it. The plane looks so beautiful. Hopefully other airlines examine it while they look at the CRJ and ERJ.

Hunter
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AirframeAS
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:55 pm

I wonder what the folks in the Boeing legal department have to say about the similarity in the design since the Chinese have no respect for copyright laws....
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LTU932
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:59 pm

It definitely looks like a reverse engineered DC-9 to me. So much for the ARJ21 being an original design...  Yeah sure
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:02 pm

At least it's an improvement to the other Chinese manufactured aircraft, such as this one:



It's a government business, so it will be difficult to find out the real price of this aircraft[/quote]

Quoting ENU (Reply 20):

My point exactly, where is the competition fairness when we are dealing with a wholly owned government corporation and how can you get the figures, surely not through financial statements, or the demands of stockholders like Boeing, and Airbus have to contend with, I do not think there will be any public discussions about the need for this aircraft and whether it will be profitable, I do not think it matters too much in the business model in China.
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Cingularity
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:03 pm

It is absolutely clear that the Chinese have "learned" a lot from their Truckliner program with McDonnell-Douglas.
However, in a lot of cases, whenever the Russians develop an aircraft, there is this rabid insistence by some that if it has the same number of engines, in the same position, with the same number of wheels as a western airliner, it must be that the Russians copied the engineering. A lot of people claim the Tu-204 is a "copy" of the 757. The only thing they have in common is basic configuration (two wing mounted engines and a long narrow body). The same people claim the Tu-154 is a copy of the 727. The two have absolutely nothing in common besides having a narrow body and three tail mounted turbofans (and other such "details"). The Russians aren't a bunch of inbreed idiots who have no brain power. They can design an aircraft on their own.
I don't remember anyone accusing Boeing of copying the An-74 when they were developing the YC-14. Yet those two have the just as much in common as the above mentioned Russian analogs. Oh, wait, I forgot! It must be that the Russians were able to obtain the Boeing plans from a mole and build it with slave labor and cheap materials quicker than Boeing. Yes, I'm sorry, I almost forgot the Russians couldn't do anything but copy drafting papers.
The same people that make those claims are probably the same people that think that aliens build the pyramids because, after all, the Egyptians couldn't possibly do it themselves.
These are also the same people who will claim the new Aviat 200 is a direct copy of the Mad Dogs.
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elmothehobo
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:07 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
It definitely looks like a reverse engineered DC-9 to me. So much for the ARJ21 being an original design...  

Because it IS reverse engineered MD-90. McDonnell Douglas sent MD-90 production to China where they built the "Trunkliners" for Chinese carriers. They kept the tooling and some of the designs and voila, you have a shrunk down MD-90.

In 2020 we'll be seing reverse engineered A320s too. Advice to any company with a sensitive design - Don't send your production to China!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
It definitely looks like a reverse engineered DC-9 to me. So much for the ARJ21 being an original design...

I could not agree with you more about this aircraft.
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EI321
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:10 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
It definitely looks like a reverse engineered DC-9 to me. So much for the ARJ21 being an original design

Its being built on the Chinese licenced MD-90 production line, using the old MD-90 assembly equipment, so the Fuselage is the same. It looks like the Tail assembly is straight off the MD-90 also. The wings are a new russian design. And of course the engines are different to the MD-90.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:23 pm



Quoting Cingularity (Reply 25):

I am afraid that you have alot to learn about aircraft design and how it is done, on the other side of the political spectrum, let us say to be polite that it was common practice to (lift information) and I am sure it still is. As I said in the thread (Cessna in China) what was once obtained by covert measures is now being freely handed over in the name of (Trade) that magical word that will undue our side of the political spectrum if we do not wise up. I suggest you start reading up on some of these issues since World War 2 until the present day. Global trade is a commercial venture to us, with slight political overtones, I am afraid the other side uses it for polical reasons as their first priority and the money gained gives them the ability to challenge our system and that is the important point that you miss.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
nucsh
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:34 pm

So what do you get when you pair a CRJ's wings and motors with a DC-9's body...?  Yeah sure





[Edited 2007-12-15 10:42:39]
If landing is about "kissing" the ground, you just about raped it.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:38 pm



Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
In 2020 we'll be seing reverse engineered A320s too. Advice to any company with a sensitive design - Don't send your production to China!

If only the greedy trade at any price group would take your advice, but we know what is important,(cheap labor) If only the people losing their jobs would wise up and stop advocating this trade to get those cheaply made products because they cannot afford anything else because the cheap labor products have driven down the wages. Oh the mystery of it all, this is not rocket science here. No jobs, no money, no money, no cheaply made products.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:46 pm

A rather unsophisticated prestige design with limited economic potential.  yawn 
 
nucsh
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:50 pm

I'm curious to see what the flight deck will look like.
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gabo787
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:57 pm

The real problem for Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and even the Russians, will be when the Chinese starts building this airplanes in massive numbers and star selling them really cheap. I mean even I'm going to be able to start my own airline with this airplanes  Silly
 
flyf15
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:02 pm

So now its been established that this thing is a blatent rip-off (and probably a horribly manufactured one) of the DC-9 series of jets.... even using the same designs, tooling, etc. What I want to know is, is this a legal use of these or illegal? If China is illegally using these plans and tools and designs, I hope that both Boeing and the US government go after them like crazy. You can't just "borrow" another company's design.

China has a long history of not being able to come up with much of anything on their own as far as aviation and most other stuff goes (sure, they have a few home-grown designs, but also many stolen ones) and just ripping off other countries instead.... its gotta stop.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:15 pm



Quoting Gabo787 (Reply 36):

I wonder what kind of benefits package these Chinese Aircraft workers have? Surely they have health care, they must have holiday treatment(overtime for working holidays) I am sure they have vacation according to seniority in the company. I know they have a defined pension plan, I think the 401s are coming. I hope they get day care for the children while they are working for the, hmm now shall we call it the company or the government? It sure looks like they have outsourced the design of this aircraft, it looks so familiar.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
flyf15
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:31 pm



Quoting Gabo787 (Reply 36):
The real problem for Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and even the Russians, will be when the Chinese starts building this airplanes in massive numbers and star selling them really cheap. I mean even I'm going to be able to start my own airline with this airplanes Silly

You mean selling their own interpretation of a Douglas airplane really cheap?

First off, Boeing should be getting a portion of the profits from this thing. Secondly, they should be getting a huge lump sum for the illegal use of one of their designs. Third, no doubt the Chinese managed to take this fine airplane and turn it into a complete piece of garbage.... its not going to sell well in developed first world countries.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:40 pm



Quoting Nucsh (Reply 34):
I'm curious to see what the flight deck will look like.

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/arj21/arj215.html
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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lightsaber
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:41 pm



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 33):
A rather unsophisticated prestige design with limited economic potential.

I have to agree. This plane has three competitors:
E175: Weighs less, similar range
MRJ: ok, the MRJ is going to weigh more, but thanks to the GTF's will have less fuel burn and lots more range.
C-series (not direct, due to being larger: same as above.

I see nothing other than manufacturing costs that makes this ARJ21 stick out. So only political pressure will get it going. Ok, it does have enough range to make a central chinese hub work. Say CTU or Chungking (sp? couldn't find airport code).

Quoting Kappel (Reply 7):
I think it's success outside of China will have less to do with perceived safety (it will have to be certified by the JAA and FAA anyway if it wants to fly in the west), but more with after-sales support.

Post-sales support and fuel burn. This is a 2002 project that now must compete in a $90/bbl environment. I think fuel burn will kill the program outside of China.

Quoting ENU (Reply 15):
The project started in 2002. I believe Bombardier is a partner in the programme (especially the engines resemble that of the CRJ)

Nyet. The engines are CF-34's though. So hence the nacelles would look similar. However, this is another tail mounted engine design. Why does that matter? The weight penalty of the structure to get the engine thrust to the main source of drag: the wing.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):

In 2020 we'll be seing reverse engineered A320s too. Advice to any company with a sensitive design - Don't send your production to China!

True. But by then planes made of beer can will no longer be of interest for purchase by western airlines.  Wink

Technology progresses. This design is being made at about a 1995 level of technology. Ok... but we have a few circa 2005 designs coming down the pipeline (MRJ, C-series) that the ARJ21 will have to compete against. Planes only have a 15 year sales life before they need an improvement. Now some lines, (A320/737) have been so improved they just keep selling. But since multiple competitive airframes will be out for the ARJ21 to compete against... I really cannot get any emotion worked up over it. Why? If the Chinese make it so that their airlines won't buy western designs, there will be a bit of a trade war. Then again, I strongly believe the GTF's time is here and we'll all see how that 'game changing' technology changes the airframe market.  spin 

Lightsaber
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Beaucaire
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:41 pm

Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:46 pm

The only customers it will have will be with airlines who would otherwise buy used...it won't hurt any western aircraft manufacturer. Nobody who builds an airline with these could afford anything being offered by anybody else.

Besides, most of the production will be for the domestic market.
What the...?
 
rampkontroler
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:12 pm



Quoting Cingularity (Reply 25):
It is absolutely clear that the Chinese have "learned" a lot from their Truckliner program with McDonnell-Douglas.
However, in a lot of cases, whenever the Russians develop an aircraft, there is this rabid insistence by some that if it has the same number of engines, in the same position, with the same number of wheels as a western airliner, it must be that the Russians copied the engineering. A lot of people claim the Tu-204 is a "copy" of the 757. The only thing they have in common is basic configuration (two wing mounted engines and a long narrow body). The same people claim the Tu-154 is a copy of the 727. The two have absolutely nothing in common besides having a narrow body and three tail mounted turbofans (and other such "details"). The Russians aren't a bunch of inbreed idiots who have no brain power. They can design an aircraft on their own.
I don't remember anyone accusing Boeing of copying the An-74 when they were developing the YC-14. Yet those two have the just as much in common as the above mentioned Russian analogs. Oh, wait, I forgot! It must be that the Russians were able to obtain the Boeing plans from a mole and build it with slave labor and cheap materials quicker than Boeing. Yes, I'm sorry, I almost forgot the Russians couldn't do anything but copy drafting papers.
The same people that make those claims are probably the same people that think that aliens build the pyramids because, after all, the Egyptians couldn't possibly do it themselves.
These are also the same people who will claim the new Aviat 200 is a direct copy of the Mad Dogs

I couldn't agree more! I've said it before, but it always seems to fall on deaf ears. At least YOU understand!
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:13 pm



Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):

( A bit of a trade war)

I do believe we are in that now, trade is a weapon in this world we inhabit. I would like to know how we survived all these years without being beholden to the Chinese as we now seem to be, How many airliners can they purchase? you folks talk like they are the largest customer in the world, well they are not and will not be anytime soon, their plans are to outproduce us and more cheaply, and they have no intentions of becoming the largest cousumer of foreign products, they will produce their own products and ( this is an amzing economic theory) keep the wealth in their banks and in the pockets of their citizens unlike us gullible free traders. How much of the wealth will end up in the citizens pockets is a big ? mark. they have to purchase raw material from all over the world and that is a weakness for any country, but, in the name of free trade we are falling all over ourselves to sell it to them for profit. I wonder why they are trying to manufacture aircraft? surely it is for the good of the global economy and pigs will fly.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
planemaker
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:14 pm



Quoting ENU (Reply 15):
I believe Bombardier is a partner in the programme (especially the engines resemble that of the CRJ) since this year, if I'm correct, it was announced at the Paris Airshow.

Not on the -700 model. The agreement was for a $100-million cash investment by Bombardier on the -900 programme. BBD would be responsible to provide technical know-how and assist ACAC earn overseas certification. I return, BBD would be paid by AVIC I for services and earn a royalty for every ARJ21-900 sold.

The -700 will never be sold in the west... it just would never meet FAA certification requirements (mainly paperwork - the devil is in the details). And that is where BBD would critically come in on the -900 by helping ACAC meet FAA reqs.

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):
I have to agree. This plane has three competitors:
...
C-series (not direct, due to being larger: same as above.

Interestingly, the ARJ21-900 would compete with the C-110 to some degree as the target seating is 105-pax. However, when BBD announced the investment in ACAC, they said the following about the ARJ21-900 & CSeries:

ACAC and Bombardier will jointly design a new fuselage and interior for the ARJ21-900 and will include more composites than the ARJ-700;

ACAC and Bombardier would look to achieve some commonality between the ARJ21-900 and CSeries, including: fuselage cross-section, amenities and "systems approach, e.g. FBW system".

BBD would strive to find commonality in suppliers between the CSeries and ARJ21-900.

This means the Canadian aircraft maker could aim to select suppliers for the CSeries that are already on the ARJ21-900 programme, rather than vice-versa.

The CSeries fuselage would be built by AVIC I's Shenyang Aircraft of Al-Li.
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:22 pm



Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 44):

Let us say then that the Russians just reversed engineered those aircraft for expediancy, seeing how a man named Stalin was watching and that could be very dangerous. I guess that may still be the case for certain aircraft engineers.
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Viscount724
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:31 pm



Quoting EI321 (Reply 28):
Its being built on the Chinese licenced MD-90 production line, using the old MD-90 assembly equipment, so the Fuselage is the same.

I believe the fuselage is slightly wider than the DC-9/MD-80/90. That was mentioned in a recent Aviation Week & Space Technology article.
 
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WarRI1
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:48 pm



Quoting Planemaker (Reply 46):

Shenyang Aircraft, I think that this is such a wonderful idea to have a government owned producer of front line fighter aircraft that are produced to the highest standards for military aircraft, (just kiidding) produce civilian aircraft for us. what a noble undertaking in the name of trade. I wonder if anyone has pondered the use of these fighter bombers, I am sure it is a purely defensive aircraft, don't you? I know that is the use of fighter bombers,(just kidding) and I know that there is a varient of both fighter and fighter bombers in most inventories. I know that the free trade and global economy have made this a wonderful world to live in and we have do not have to fear the transfer of wealth and possible technology concerned with military aircraft.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
FlyMeToTheMoon
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:11 pm

Hopefully it will not be painted with lead paint  Smile
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KarlB737
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RE: First Picture Of ARJ21 Prototype

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:16 pm



Quoting Nucsh (Reply 30):
So what do you get when you pair a CRJ's wings and motors with a DC-9's body...?

Interesting perspective,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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