gilesdavies
Posts: 2274
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:36 pm

Hi Guys

I was just reading in another thread that British Caledonian operated flights to Hong Kong and also had 747's which were both a big surprise to me...

British Caledonian were taken over by BA when I was till very young and to this day have never really knew a great deal about this airline...

I do remember seeing some very cheesey advert on YouTube, where the cabin crew are in these aweful tartan uniforms and the passengers are singing some god aweful song!  crazy 

I did however love the livery and remember when BA turned the brand into Caledonian Airlines a chater arm of the business, and thought the aircraft looked stunning. Even to this day, I don't think it can be beaten and those Tristars looked awesome!

What was the airline like to fly on and how did they compare to their rivals of that day?

Also what did their fleet consist of and how large was it? What destinations did they fly to?

Many Thanks
Giles
 
nycaross
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:43 pm

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:58 pm

In 1972 I took British Caledonian from GOA to LGW. It was a BAC-111. It was an ok flight.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8152
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:09 pm



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Also what did their fleet consist of and how large was it?

- Not sure of the exact numbers, would need to dig into my reference books in the garage, but the fleet at time of BA takeover was:-

Bac 111
DC-10-30
747-200 - GE Engines

On Order:-

A320
MD-11

BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

Hope that is of some interest.

Mark
111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
 
mainMAN
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:19 pm

If you do a search about BCal there's loads of information knocking around.

I know very little, but they were awarded the route licences from LGW on many routes which BA weren't permitted to fly from LHR - from the top of my head, and possibly not too accurately they flew to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Rio, Sao Paulo, Monrovia, Lagos, Kano, Accra initially and later got rights to Hong Kong.

They also flew 1-11s on the main UK domestic routes MAN, GLA, EDI, JER, NCL I think, but I don't remember there being ABZ or BFS flights. They also operated to Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and as Nycaross has indicated, they were the only airline to operate from the UK and Genoa.
 
ddbonf
Posts: 17
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:28 pm



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
What destinations did they fly to?

When I worked for BCAL they had a large network..

For your three letter codes...all from London Gatwick

Africa
NBO/SEZ/EBB/LUN/TIP/CAS/FNA/BJL/ACC/LOS/ROB

Middle East
JED/RUH/DXB/DMM

Far East
HKG

USA
NYC/LAX/IAH/DFW/ATL
and SJU

Europe
AMS/RTM/BRU/PAR/GOA/FRA/LIS/LPA/TCI

UK
EDI/GLA/BFS

South America
REC/RIO/SAO/BUE/SCL

I've propbably missed some
 
Viscount724
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:56 pm

My only longhaul flights on B.Cal were LAX-LGW-LAX soon after they started service to the USA in the mid-1970s, initially using the 707-320C before switching to the DC-10-30 after the first year or two. Service on my two 707 flights was excellent, even in economy class.
 
scrumpy492003
Posts: 70
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:58 pm

British Caledonian was WAY better than BA at the time.

customer service was great,
snacks were better than BA (BA, Amsterdam to heathrow, after a flight on Canadian Pacific from YYC to AMS, was stale sandwiches and orange juice!!) Caledonian served hot drinks!!

Treated me very well from Heathrow to AMS way back in late 70's.

Peter
peter b95 c-ghfu
 
rleiro
Posts: 219
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:03 pm



Quote:
South America
REC/RIO/SAO/BUE/SCL

I've probably missed some

Add CCS to the list. British Caledonian used to come to CCS in a DC-10.

Saludos,

Roberto.
A proud SVZM Spotter!
 
OceansWorld
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):
747-200 - GE Engines

And Pratt & Whitney too.


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Edit:

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):
- Not sure of the exact numbers, would need to dig into my reference books in the garage, but the fleet at time of BA takeover was:-Bac 111DC-10-30747-200 - GE Engines

DC-10-30 : Eight brand new + two second hands (ex. YA-LAS + 9Q-CLT)

B747-2D3B(M) : two - former RJ aircraft.
B747-211B : two - former Wardair aircraft.
B747-230B : one - former N611BN & and D-ABYG

B747-148 : one, leased from EI Oct. 1978 - Feb. 1979.

[Edited 2007-12-15 15:11:03]
 
edina
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:36 pm



Quoting Scrumpy492003 (Reply 6):
Treated me very well from Heathrow to AMS way back in late 70's.

Only BR flights from LHR were the helicopter shuttles.............all fixed wing flying was from LGW.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2565
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:21 am

Those ads were fantastic, catchy and everyone knew the words, i.e. it was a hugely successful ad campaign, probably as successful as the Cinzano ads aired at roughly the same time (and funnily enough, one of which I think was filmed on a Caly '10, bottom link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8q9zOUMdtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS2Pfnr_3dA

and just the first one on this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CjfueaRpSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICmjZXf3lto&NR=1

Shamu
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:20 am

Used to enjoy watching their DC-10s at DFW. Nice looking aircraft. When they transitioned to BA livery, also became what I thought to be the best looking DC-10s in service.

BCAL ran a wide variety of aircraft. DC-10s, 747s, A-310a, (who got those after BA merger?) and BAC-111s.
 
ualcsr
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:28 am

I flew them in the late 80s from MCO to LGW. Not sure if this was a regularly scheduled flight or charter. We stopped in Bangor, Maine where we were allowed to get off the plane and walk around the tarmac.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:06 am

I remember when they flew to STL for a few years. Ozark had some kind of marketing promotion with BCal for awhile, at least until they went from a STL-LGW to a STL-ATL-LGW routing.

I sure miss seeing those 10's at STL, pretty rare as TWA had the L1011 and the only other 10's were the occasional Sun Country, FedEx and NW MAC charter.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
scrumpy492003
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:01 pm

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Scrumpy492003 (Reply 6):
Treated me very well from Heathrow to AMS way back in late 70's.

Only BR flights from LHR were the helicopter shuttles.............all fixed wing flying was from LGW.
-------------------
That was 30 years ago, and I was going from London to Amsterdam, to connect with Canadian pacific 747 for the return trip to YYC.

I went to Heathrow, was informed that I was at the wrong airport, though nothing on the ticket said that, and I flew INTO Heathrow a couple of weeks before, Maybe I went to The Caledonian Desk as the ticket said, BUT anyway, I had a staff member race me through whatever security there was at the time, and a plane was delayed just a couple of minutes for me! Perhaps that was a trip of an hour on KLM, I don't remember now, BUT that service was good.

I will always remember the stale sandwiches and orange juice!!

Even on a 1/2 hour flight in those days from YYC to YEG, Hot coffee was served by PWA, BUT not by BA on a 1 hour flight!!

Peter
peter b95 c-ghfu
 
andz
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:11 am



Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 12):
When they transitioned to BA livery, also became what I thought to be the best looking DC-10s in service.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/andzz/BADC-10.jpg
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
antonovman
Posts: 426
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:21 am



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 14):
I sure miss seeing those 10's at STL, pretty rare as TWA had the L1011 and the only other 10's were the occasional Sun Country, FedEx and NW MAC charter.

British Caledonian did not have L1011's. Youre confusing British Caledonian with Caledonian
BCAL was a seperate private company operating out of LGW, running BAC1-11's, DC10 and B747
They were bought out by BA and the aircraft painted in BA colours. BA then changed the name of their own charter
arm from British Airtours to Caledonian and eventually the L1011's from BA made their way to Caledonian
The 1-11's were due to be replaced by A320 but were delivered after the "merger" or buy-out and were painted in BA colours, I donbt think they ever flew with BCAL colours on but I may be mistaken.
BCAL at the time were a very good airline the tartan uniforms were a classic
 
mainMAN
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:21 am



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 17):
The 1-11's were due to be replaced by A320 but were delivered after the "merger" or buy-out and were painted in BA colours, I donbt think they ever flew with BCAL colours on but I may be mistaken.

I can't find one on here, but you can find a picture of a B Cal 320 on google images. It can't have flown for very long before being either returned to Airbus or re-painted in BA colours.
 
LASoctoberB6
Posts: 1936
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:56 am



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 8):
DC-10-30 : Eight brand new + two second hands (ex. YA-LAS + 9Q-CLT)

Those are cool tail #s..
[NOT IN SERVICE] {WEStJet}
 
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sibille
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:57 am



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):
- Not sure of the exact numbers, would need to dig into my reference books in the garage, but the fleet at time of BA takeover was:-

Bac 111
DC-10-30
747-200 - GE Engines

On Order:-

A320
MD-11

BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase

What about the VC-10?
 
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OzarkD9S
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:14 pm



Quoting Antonovman (Reply 16):


British Caledonian did not have L1011's. Youre confusing British Caledonian with Caledonian
BCAL was a seperate private company operating out of LGW, running BAC1-11's, DC10 and B747
They were bought out by BA and the aircraft painted in BA colours. BA then changed the name of their own charter
arm from British Airtours to Caledonian and eventually the L1011's from BA made their way to Caledonian
The 1-11's were due to be replaced by A320 but were delivered after the "merger" or buy-out and were painted in BA colours, I donbt think they ever flew with BCAL colours on but I may be mistaken.
BCAL at the time were a very good airline the tartan uniforms were a classic

Perhaps I should have typed out DC-10 instead of "10". I could have saved you alot of typing.
Coast to Coast and Border to Border, Ozark Flies YOUR Way!
 
Vanguard
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:51 pm

Don't forget they also used to fly to NYANDLA.....  wink 
 
vc10
Posts: 1342
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:04 pm



Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 19):
What about the VC-10?

They had I believe 4 VC-10s which were inherited from BUA , and they operated them up to about 1974.

When people comment about BA only operating out of London and ignoring the rest of the UK as far as long routes go , there was never any comment that this so called Scottish airline operated also from London, all be it from Gatwick .

littlevc10
 
VC-10
Posts: 3546
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:33 pm



Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.

If you looked carefully, with the light at the right angle, you could see the outline of the BCAL lion on the Vert stab under the BA paint scheme.



For the record, in their time BCAL also operated 4 VC10's, about 11 B707's & 2 Navajo Chieftans.
 
AApilot2b
Posts: 451
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:45 pm

B CAL was a great airline with service that spanned the globe. We were sad to see her washed away in to BA.
 
ltbewr
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:50 pm

I believe B-Cal operated from LGW to EWR in the early to mid-1980's, using limited rights under agreements for UK service to/from EWR. These rights were later taken over by VS.
I also recall on one of my early trips to the UK (1983-1984?) of travel shop ads using a theme playing on the old Beach Boys song "California Girls" with the tag line of something like "Caledoian Girls". Obviously very sexist ads one wouldn't see today.
 
VC-10
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:54 pm



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 25):
I believe B-Cal operated from LGW to EWR in the early to mid-1980's, using limited rights under agreements for UK service to/from EWR.

No, BCAL flew to JFK. Laker Airways Skytrain flew to EWR, it was this service VS took over
 
AApilot2b
Posts: 451
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:55 pm

 
ddbonf
Posts: 17
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.


The A310 were certainly in BCAL colours. I went on one when I worked for them.

Among other routes they were used to Tripoli
 
OceansWorld
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Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:00 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 23):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):

BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.

Sorry VC-10, but on this one you are wrong. Both aircraft were with BCal between March 1984 and May 1986.


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[Edited 2007-12-16 06:02:20]
 
OceansWorld
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:07 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 26):
Laker Airways Skytrain flew to EWR,

Really ?


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AApilot2b
Posts: 451
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:20 pm

Here is the answer to the "tri-jet question:"

B CAL operated DC-10s; BA operated L1011s. When B CAL and BA became one entity, the Caledonian name was carried for a while but only as a charter airline. Interestingly, BA retained the DC-10s in full BA livery but retired the L1011s to the Caledonian charter section.
An interesting DC-10 in B CALs fleet was G-MULL. This airplane was originally delivered to Ariana Afghan Airlines and was struck by a SAM (surface to air missile), but managed to land safely. This great survivor than passed in to the hands of British Caledonian Airways and continued to fly the world's air routes first under the B CAL colors and then in BA's livery. Today, she still flies with Centurion. I flew on her twice in 1998 when she was still wearing the Landor scheme (BA's best).


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CV990
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:32 pm

Hi!

First of all, my tribute to BCAL showing you the first, last and only flight I did:

Date: 1980/09/29
Flight: LGW/AMS
Airline: BR
Airplane: Bac 1-11-500
Registration: G-AXJM
Duration of flight: 0:55 minutes


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When I flew BR Bac 1-11 I wasn't that happy at all!!! I was originally booked on Braniff flight from LGW to AMS and that was a very excited moment but...the flight came delayed from DFW so they cancelled the rest of the flight from LGW to AMS. BN did the best to find me a way to get to AMS and they got me flying BR!!! Now 27 years latter, I still regret " a bit " that I never had the chance to fly BN, they ended latter, etc. etc. but infact I think now that I was lucky to fly BR, they also ended latter and I never had the chance to fly again in a Bac 1-11 ( BN flight was supposed to be in a 747...) so I pleased I did it!
Now regarding BR flights here in LIS, well most of the South American flights they had passed via LIS, always with the 707, very nice time, see a BR 707 arriving at LIS. I still have my JP Airline Fleets from 1980 and here are the 707's I saw passing via LIS:

G-ATZC - 707-365C
G-AXRS - 707-355C
G-AYEX - 707-355C
G-BDLM - 707-338C

When BR started using the DC-10 on those routes I knew that their days in LIS would be over, but at one point UK airport authorities wanted to move iberian airlines from LHR to LGW, and if in one way TP was willing to do that IB didn't so Spain suspended all UK airlines that used Spain on transit to stop there...so, suddenly we see again BR passing in LIS with the DC-10. I have vivid memories of seeing a BR DC-10 passing on the shortest LIS runway ( RN36 ), very low and it was a fantastic moment!!! BR also at one time flew to LIS from UK with the Bac 1-11, and I had the chance to see them joining the "restrict" UK airlines group that operated to LIS with the nice Bac 1-11... the others were Monarch, Dan-Air, Laker!!! And at last I CANNOT forget when Scotland came to play against Portugal ( with Dalglish, McQueen and other great players...) they came in a BR Bac 1-11-500 saying "The Scottih Football Team" tittles in Black over the gold line of the livery!
The Portuguese aviation enthusiasts will NEVER forget BR passing in LIS!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Door5Right
Posts: 691
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:05 pm

Fabulous airline. Fabulous,. fabulous, fabulous and greatly missed!

They were a joy to fly on their BAC 1-11s between LGW and BFS, GLA, EDI with superb in flight service and those wonderful girls.

Once I had occasion to complain about something on a GLA-LGW flight. I complained direct to the Managaing Director at that time and, to my amazement, got a four page letter back with a detailed explaination. I was so stunned I wrote and thanked him. He wrote to thank me back because he welcomed genuine feedback. I then wrote to thank him, ending by saying " added to which I could never abandon an airline which allowed the crew to wear the BLANK tartan, a magnificent sight at 33,000'..." The tartat was, of course, my family tartat, one of the dozen the girls were able to choose from.

Some months later, when I checked for a LGW-GLA flight, I found a stewardess in the tartan waiting for me. It turns out she had been dedicated to flying that flight JUST to look after me! She whisked me off to the Clansman Lounge; a car later took usto the foot of the aircraft steps; the emergency row for three had been held for the two of us. When the meal service began she served me and no-one else. Then I was taken to meet the flight deck crew and stayed there for the landing. When we landed I was asked to wait until everyone else was off the plane. Then the crew, including my very own BCAL girl, lined up to say good bye. Needless to say by this stage I had several gin and tonics inside me.

When I descended the steps a man in a suit was waiting for me. I was not at all sure who he was but smiled anyway. He simply looked at me and said; "The Managing Director would like to know if you have any complaints this time...?"

What a superb lesson in customer service! What neither the airline, nor myself, knew at the time was a year later I moved to a position in a company where I was heavily involved in chartering aircraft to move a company around. If the quotation was close enough I always gave BCAL the business because I rem,embered how welll I had been looked after on that one special flight. And never once did the airline let us down.

Sir Adam Thompson built up a truly great airline - it was so, so sad when British Airways gained control in 1987 and that was the end, alas.
My soul is in the sky...
 
David L
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:18 pm



Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
British Caledonian operated flights to Hong Kong and also had 747's which were both a big surprise to me...

Though, like many others, I did the 1-11 flights between GLA and LGW a few times in the 70s, I'm afraid my memory extends back further. My first flight with them was in about 1965, when they were still Caledonian Airways (before they bought British United) - HKG-LGW on a Bristol Britannia. I think there were five stops but I can't remember all of them. They included Bahrain and Istanbul. Bombay might have been one of them but I may have that confused with an outward trip a couple of years earlier or a couple of years later.
 
by738
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:20 pm



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 29):
Sorry VC-10, but on this one you are wrong. Both aircraft were with BCal between March 1984 and May 1986.

He meant A320
 
Viscount724
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:45 pm



Quoting VC10 (Reply 22):
Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 19):
What about the VC-10?

They had I believe 4 VC-10s which were inherited from BUA , and they operated them up to about 1974.

Except for this one which was written off after a heavy landing at LGW on a ferry flight from LHR in 1972. It was the first VC-10 built (apart from two static test airframes). It made the type's first flight in June 1962.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19720128-0

Although it initially appeared in BOAC livery it was never operated by BA.


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ddbonf
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:03 pm

Except for this one which was written off after a heavy landing at LGW on a ferry flight from LHR in 1972. It was the first VC-10 built (apart from two static test airframes). It made the type's first flight in June 1962.

registration G-ARTA

I have a piece of it. After the break up, the engineering apprentices made bits of it into into memorabilia placques mounted on bits of wood.
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1259
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:52 pm



Quoting MainMAN (Reply 17):
I can't find one on here, but you can find a picture of a B Cal 320 on google images. It can't have flown for very long before being either returned to Airbus or re-painted in BA colours.

I found this:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=297693

which includes 2 pictures in post #3.

This plane was the second A320, and, from memory, it was at first painted one side in AF colors, and the other in BR. Don't ask me the reference, I read it, well, 20 years ago, I'm afraid...

Very nice looking machine.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
otnysaslhr
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 4:48 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:53 pm



Quoting VC-10 (Reply 26):
No, BCAL flew to JFK. Laker Airways Skytrain flew to EWR, it was this service VS took over

Laker definitely flew to JFK. - Now there was a low cost carrier!! LGW-JFK UKL49.00 Dinner UKL1.50 Tea UKL0.50.
BCAL operated to Jersey
They also operated the Gatwick Heathrow Airlink by S61N on behalf of British Airports Authority until the M25 Orbital road opened between th M4 & M23
oTny
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19056
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:05 pm



Quoting OtnySASLHR (Reply 39):
Quoting VC-10 (Reply 26):
No, BCAL flew to JFK. Laker Airways Skytrain flew to EWR, it was this service VS took over

Laker definitely flew to JFK. BCAL operated to Jersey

Both Laker and BCAL operated LGW-JFK. As I recall, neither carrier ever served EWR.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8152
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:26 pm



Quoting SIBILLE (Reply 19):
What about the VC-10?

- These were not operated by BCAL when BA took them over.

Quoting Ddbonf (Reply 28):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):



[quote=VC-10,reply=23]Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.

- Wrong, they were delivered in BCAL c/s.

Quoting Ddbonf (Reply 28):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.


The A310 were certainly in BCAL colours. I went on one when I worked for them.

- This is not what I said, when quoting please use the correct method to quote, this will ensure you don't make errors like this and invent incorrect quotes.

M
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aa1818
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:31 pm

I remember seeing them in TAB but I don't know whether it was pre or post BA involvement.

I believe they flew DC-10s and L10-11s into TAB.


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“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
David_itl
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:35 pm



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 40):
BCAL operated LGW-JFK.

and in 1974, operated a 4 weekly LGW-MAN-JFK service with the 707. Got converted into a 2 daily LGW-MAN 1-11 schedule by the following year due to losses on the route. When BA bought BR, the 4 weekly MAN-JFK service metamorphosed into a daily LGW-MAN-JFK using Dc10s and then latterly 747s prior to the LGW-MAN bit being dropped: they weren't allowed to pick-up passengers routing LGW-MAN


They also were amongst the forerunners of the "franchising" side of operations - Genair operated several domestic routes in the early to mid 1980s are "British Caledonian Commuter" and I think Chieftain Airways had a codeshare agreement for their routes out of GLA and EDI whilst they were still in operation.

The BR route to ATL was for a time in the 1980s became a joint service with Sabena - it was 747s routing BRU-LGW-ATL. Also in the 1980s was a route swap with BA instigated by the UK government
 
BCAL
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:02 pm



Quoting MainMAN (Reply 3):
they were awarded the route licences from LGW on many routes which BA weren't permitted to fly from LHR

In the days of BCal route licences were handed out by the UK Government and BA, then being state-owned, had all the lucrative routes. In the 1960s BA pulled out of the South American continent and the licence to operate was then given to BUA who later merged with Caledonian and became Caledonian/BUA, later British Caledonian. Despite state handouts BOAC lost money on their South American network but BUA, and later British Caledonian, managed to turn the loss-making routes into profitable routes without any state assistance, and with the handicap of being forced to operate from LGW.

There were various shake-ups in UK Civil Aviation during the 1960s and 1970s. The UK Government wanted to create a "second-force" UK airline and there were recommendations that BCal be allowed to compete head-on with BA. However, a change of UK government never saw the plans realised and BCal was therefore only given "chicken-feed" routes. BCal was the UK carrier to South America, West and Central Africa and the LGW-West African routes were very profitable. Another shake-up in the 1970s saw BCal being permitted to operate on routes to Mid USA and this is when BCal started operations from LGW-DFW, HOU and ATL.

BCal also operated LGW-JFK and LGW-LAX. However these routes were suspended after the oil crisis in the early 1970s. BCal applied for permission to restart services in the mid 1970s but were turned down in favour of their LGW-neighbour Laker Airways who had campaigned for years to get his revolutionary Skytrain service airborne.

After the Falklands War there was another swap of air routes between BA and BCal. BA was given the South American routes and BCal was given the Gulf routes and later the right to compete with BA between London and HKG, albeit from LGW. The exchange of routes for BCal was met with opposition from the Saudis (who were 'offended' that the main British airline no longer flew in Riyadh) and the Hong Kong Government who insisted that CX also be allowed to operate a similar number of flights between HKG-LGW. The UK Government did not back BCal in the same way that they backed BA and gave in to the demands of the Hong Kong government.

Quoting Scrumpy492003 (Reply 6):
Treated me very well from Heathrow to AMS way back in late 70's

Like it has already been posted BCal did not operate, and was never allowed to operate any fixed wing flights from LHR. They had the LHR-LGW helicopter service until the M25 opened when helicopter flights were banned by the UK Department of Transport. BCal did, however, have staff based at LHR Terminal 3 to assist transit passengers on their transfers to/from LGW.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 23):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.

BCal operated the A310-200. It was the A320 that was ordered but, by the time deliveries were due, BCal had merged with BA. BCal was the first airline to place orders from the A320, ahead of AF and LH.

Quoting VC-10 (Reply 26):
Laker Airways Skytrain flew to EWR, it was this service VS took over

Laker Skytrain flew to JFK, never EWR. It was Peoplexpress that flew EWR-LGW and VS started on this route (rumour has it that Branson could not get through to the Peoplexpress booking line and hence his decision to enter the airline business).

For a brief period BCal returned as the second UK carrier between London and New York but the merger with BA soon happened. As part of the agreement to allow BA to acquire BCal, BA was ordered to surrender some of the LGW route licences inherited from BCal. LGW-JFK was one such route and VS then became the second designated UK carrier between London and New York.

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 33):
Once I had occasion to complain about something on a GLA-LGW flight. I complained direct to the Managaing Director at that time and, to my amazement, got a four page letter back with a detailed explaination. I was so stunned I wrote and thanked him

BCal's advertising slogan was "We never forget you have a choice" so they listened to all customer feedback and treated any complaints very seriously.

Quoting VC10 (Reply 22):
When people comment about BA only operating out of London and ignoring the rest of the UK as far as long routes go , there was never any comment that this so called Scottish airline operated also from London, all be it from Gatwick .

BUA had always been based at LGW. Caledonian was the Scottish airline but LGW was their main base too. When the two airlines merged the principal shareholders included the British and Commonwealth Shipping Company, 3i and many Scottish businesses. LGW was where the money could be made but BCal never forgot their Scottish origins. They served Glasgow and Aberdeen but could not obtain licences to operate from any other Scottish airport. There was a major maintenance and engineering operation at Prestwick.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
ba319-131
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:10 pm



Quoting BCAL (Reply 44):
Quoting VC-10 (Reply 23):
Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 2):


BCAL had operated 2 A310-200's, but these were sold off prior to BA's purchase.

They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered.

BCal operated the A310-200.

- BCAL, I know they operated the A310, I have been miss quouted by A.NET member Ddbonf with the stupid "They were never operated by BCAL and were in BA colours when delivered." statement, see my original statement in my original reply.

Rgds

Matk
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USADreamliner
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:25 pm

BCal used to fly to Buenos Aires until 1982 (Falklands War). Flights were resumed ten years later, this time by British Airways.
 
BCAL
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:31 pm

From memory the BCal fleet in the mid 1980s consisted of
  • 22 x BAC1-11 in various configurations
  • 8 x DC10-30 + an additional two models that were acquired on the demise of Laker. These models were used for British Caledonian Charter that became CalAir (when the Rank Organisation became a 50:50 partner) and later Novair (when BCal sold out their 50% equity).
  • 2 x A310. The original order was for 3 aircraft plus 3 options. However, only two were delivered and they had a short life with BCal. The aircraft were used principally on routes to Tripoli and the 'thin' long-hauls to West and Mid Africa. However, when flights to Tripoli were suspended under order of the UK Government BCal management found the A310s too big for their requirements and the aircraft were sold.
  • 4 x 747-200 plus a further model leased in for two seasons from Aer Lingus.


BCal was due to become launch customer for both the A320 (6 aircraft plus 6 options) and the MD11 (3 aircraft plus 3 options) but the BA/BCal merger occured before deliveries. BA took up the A320 (having previously been a Boeing customer) and the MD11s were cancelled.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
OceansWorld
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RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:45 pm



Quoting BCAL (Reply 47):
8 x DC10-30 + an additional two models that were acquired on the demise of Laker. These models were used for British Caledonian Charter

The two ex Laker Airways were DC-10-10s and registered G-GFAL and G-GSKY with GK, before becoming G-BJZD...

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...and G-BJZE.



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Both entered service with BCal in February 22nd, 1982.
 
VC-10
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 1999 11:34 am

RE: The British Caledonian Days...

Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:52 pm



Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 29):
Sorry VC-10, but on this one you are wrong. Both aircraft were with BCal between March 1984 and May 1986.

Quite correct, I miss read it as A320's. I know they had 310's as I certified them!