bobnwa
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PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:35 pm

The Pittsburgh Tribune Review reported on Dec 13 that Pittsburgh was on the "short list" of NW/KL for service to AMS. The article quoted the Regional Air Service Partnership which was encouraging top executives to write to Douglas Steenland CEO of Northwest saying they would support the service.

Not sure how long the short list is, what the chances are, or what aircraft would do the service.

[Edited 2007-12-15 15:36:31]
 
Flighty
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:35 am

NW does have some additional 757s to deploy for 2008.

Then again, so does US Airways. PIT-FRA is a lengthy flight, but very possible.
 
azjubilee
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:20 am

There is still plenty of time for NWA to announce their plans for the Atlantic 757s. With slack in the 744 and 333 fleets, I suspect more announcements to come in the near future.


AZJ
 
Flighty
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting RW170 (Reply 2):
They say nothing but how unprofitable PIT has been for them, and now that they have cut service from PIT so much, there aren't even as many opportunities to bring connecting passengers in to fill up international flights from PIT.

?? Then why would NW do PIT-AMS...

PIT has some ability to support a 757 Europe flight. Will NW be the one to do it, I guess we'll wait and see. Back when US pulled down its PIT-Europe flights, it did not have any 757-winglet birds. Now it does. I give US PIT-FRA 25% chance, NW PIT-AMS 35% chance, and nothing, a 40% chance. People are eager to see what markets the 757 can rejuvenate... so PIT might get a bone here.
 
RW170
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:50 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
?? Then why would NW do PIT-AMS...

I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package. As far as US, it's not going to happen, at least not under the current ownership. Since Parker and Kirby have taken over, they have done nothing but deemphasize PIT. US has been consistently and dramatically reducing service from the city, and is now closing the PIT crew bases and laying off ground employees. Each time they speak publicly or in employee newsletters and videos of future international expansion, they continue to emphasize that all transatlantic and transpacific routes will be added from PHL with a possible few exceptions added in CLT, PHX, and (least likely) LAS in a few years. It's simple logic. Why would an airline continue to cut service and emphasize growth from other cities and then add a nonstop transatlantic flight from a former hub that is now barely a focus city (if that). The only crazy way I could see it happening would be if a Pittsburgh corporation or corporations signed a deal offering US guaranteed revenue and profitability on a route similar to what AA has in RDU.
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pitops
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:02 am

This has been talked about alot in the Whats Going on at PIT Part 3 thread. Check it out.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:15 am



Quoting RW170 (Reply 5):
I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package.

...and we have a winner. PIT-AMS is well within the range of a 75A. BDL was a nothing in the NW system prior to the AMS flight, but NW saw an opportunity. It's no different in PIT.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Flighty
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:04 am



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
PIT-AMS is well within the range of a 75A

And this may be the main reason why US might let NW take PIT-Europe. Otherwise, if AMS makes money, FRA would make money, and US could run such a flight. Would they, well their PR trends suggest no.

It comes down to a slight operational advantage for NW, being that they already have 757s at AMS to route into PIT. The same is not true for US at FRA. Plus, the range issue.
 
jawake
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:17 am



Quoting RW170 (Reply 5):
I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package.

Ex

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
...and we have a winner. PIT-AMS is well within the range of a 75A. BDL was a nothing in the NW system prior to the AMS flight, but NW saw an opportunity. It's no different in PIT.

I would agree with RW170, if BDL-AMS can work, why not PIT?

And is this not what Boeing predicted with the arrival of the 787? And surprise surprise, NW is a 787 customer. Now I agree, a 757 makes sense with PIT. I think it is obvious NW agrees with Boeing, point to point is what folks want. PIT-AMS has a great chance of happening. AMS is a great hub, and NW is taking on 787s and will have room to grow.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:17 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
It comes down to a slight operational advantage for NW, being that they already have 757s at AMS to route into PIT. The same is not true for US at FRA. Plus, the range issue.

A 752 would have trouble with FRA-PIT in the winter and,unfortunately, business traffic doesn't tolerate seasonal cuts well. That's the biggest obstacle for US. Bridging a TATL 752 in from PHL wouldn't be that big a deal.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
pitops
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:00 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
And this may be the main reason why US might let NW take PIT-Europe. Otherwise, if AMS makes money, FRA would make money, and US could run such a flight. Would they, well their PR trends suggest no.

US will not run international flights from PIT in the distant future. Hell they are barely running domestic flights now.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
bobnwa
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:02 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 3):
?? Then why would NW do PIT-AMS...

Because NW has a huge hub on one end of the flight, AMS that works very well collecting connections from all over Europe, Middle East and Africa.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
It comes down to a slight operational advantage for NW, being that they already have 757s at AMS to route into PIT. The same is not true for US at FRA. Plus, the range issue.

NW has no aircraft based in AMS. All are US originating turnarounds.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 11):

NW has no aircraft based in AMS. All are US originating turnarounds.

No, but they do already bridge 75As through AMS.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bobnwa
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:03 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 12):
No, but they do already bridge 75As through AMS.

But all are turnarounds. None based in AMS.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 13):
But all are turnarounds. None based in AMS.

No aircraft are based in AMS, but they aren't all turnarounds. They bridge aircraft through AMS to BOS and BDL. The rotation in the current schedule is DTW-AMS-BDL-AMS-BOS-AMS-DTW.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bobnwa
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:17 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
No aircraft are based in AMS, but they aren't all turnarounds. They bridge aircraft through AMS to BOS and BDL. The rotation in the current schedule is DTW-AMS-BDL-AMS-BOS-AMS-DTW.

If an aircraft goes from the US to Europe, then turnaround and flies back to the US it is a turnaround. It doesn't need to go back to the same city to be labeled that. An aircraft either 1. goes through a city, 2. turns-around in a city, or 3. is based in that city.

Crews may call a turnaround flying back to the same city, but the movement of aircraft are not labeled that way.
 
icna05e
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting Jawake (Reply 8):
point to point is what folks want. PIT-AMS has a great chance of happening. AMS is a great hub

Funny series of sentences...you are almost contradicting yourself here, even if I see your point. And you are totally right, it's just the way you expressed it!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:49 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15):
An aircraft either 1. goes through a city, 2. turns-around in a city, or 3. is based in that city.

 Confused The difference between going through and turning around being...?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jawake
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:29 pm



Quoting Icna05e (Reply 16):
Funny series of sentences...you are almost contradicting yourself here, even if I see your point. And you are totally right, it's just the way you expressed it!

Agreed, I was a little excited at the time, with the possibility of a PIT-AMS route. Your point (no pun intended  Smile) is true enough. Point to point is not the right way to say it. This would be better expressed as a long distance thin route, a 787 type route.
 
steeler83
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:19 am

I realize this is already talked about in the PIT thread, but what the heck, I also think NW service to AMS could work. US may have more aircraft coming to them in the next couple of years, but are they going to "waste their time" with PIT-Europe flights? I really do not think so...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
bobnwa
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:03 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
The difference between going through and turning around being...?

Well if NWA has a flight that originates in the US to AMS and then continues on to Bombay it goes through a city. If BA has a flight that originates in LHR to DTW and then continues on to IAH, it goes through a city. Various cities in Asia are through cities out of NRT for NWA flights that began in the US. Need anymore?
 
gilesdavies
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:30 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 1):
Then again, so does US Airways. PIT-FRA is a lengthy flight, but very possible.

You can keep hoping mate!

But US Airways, Trans-Atlantic flights ain't coming to PIT for the forseeable from this airline. They ruled them out in there latest batch of cuts at the airport.

Giles  Smile
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:51 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Thread starter):
Not sure how long the short list is, what the chances are, or what aircraft would do the service.

As it stands right now the short list includes:
PHL
BWI
PIT
DEN
IND
CMH
RDU

This includes markets where NW / KLM has shown an interest or where the airport / local government has approached NW/KLM. Not saying that all are feasible due to demand, nor the right aircraft type (particularly DEN which could work with a 75A but never with an A330). PHL is not an if, but a when will in restart with a 75A ('09 is looking more likely than '08 at this point). The others on the list are wild cards if the right incentive package is put together then the potential becomes more likely)

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 2):
There is still plenty of time for NWA to announce their plans for the Atlantic 757s. With slack in the 744 and 333 fleets, I suspect more announcements to come in the near future.

As of now with the recent LHR announcements, the A330-200's are fully allocated, potentially one more available -300 for next summer, and 1 or 2 75A's available.

A330-200
1 SEA-NRT
2 SEA-AMS
3 SEA-LHR
4 PDX-NRT
5 PDX-AMS
6 SFO-NRT
7 AMS-BOM
8 NRT-BKK/ICN
9 NRT-PEK/SIN
10 SEA-NRT (additional weekly frequencies) / spare
11 maintenance / spare

A330-300
1 DTW-AMS
2 DTW-AMS (note 3 additional daily DTW-AMS flights operated by 744, 75A, & KLM A330)
3 DTW-LHR
4 DTW-CDG
5 DTW-FRA
6 MSP-AMS
7 MSP-AMS
8 MSP-AMS
9 MSP-LHR
10 MSP-CDG
11 MSP-HNL
12 MEM-AMS
13 BOS-AMS
14 HNL-NRT
15 HNL-NRT
16 HNL-KIX
17 NRT-GUM
18 NRT-SPN
19 MSP spare / maintenance
20 DTW spare / maintenance
21 ????

757-200A
1 DTW-AMS
2 DTW-LGW
3 DTW-DUS
4 BOS-AMS
5 BDL-AMS
6 EWR-AMS
7 EWR-AMS
8 ???
9 ???
10 ???

Quoting Bobnwa (Thread starter):
The article quoted the Regional Air Service Partnership which was encouraging top executives to write to Douglas Steenland CEO of Northwest saying they would support the service.

If the incentive package is sweet enough, NW may bite.

Quoting RW170 (Reply 4):
I didn't say they would or wouldn't. They obviously thought BDL-AMS would work, and it's still around, so maybe they will add PIT if they get the right incentive package

You said it.
 
azjubilee
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:38 pm

PSU - good points... but I noticed some flaws in your a/c listings. This is what I've compiled for the summer:

744 - LAX-NRT-HKG
744 - HKG-NRT-LAX
744 - MSP-NRT-MNL
744 - MNL-NRT-MSP
744 - DTW-NGO-MNL
744 - MNL-NGO-DTW
744 - DTW-KIX-TPE
744 - TPE-KIX-DTW
744 - DTW-NRT-HNL
744 - HNL-NRT-DTW
744 - DTW-NRT-SHA
744 - SHA-NRT-DTW
744 - DTW-AMS-DTW
744 - NRT spare /NRT-MSP-NRT 14/3
744- DTW RON spare
744 - spare
16 total

332 - SEA-NRT-ICN
332 - ICN-NRT-SEA
332 - PDX-NRT-SIN
332 - SIN-NRT-PDX
332 - SFO-NRT-BKK
332 - BKK-NRT-SFO
332 - SEA-AMS-BOM
332 - BOM-AMS-SEA
332 - PDX-AMS-PDX
332 - NRT-PEK-NRT
332 - SEA RON spare
11 total but where does SEA-LHR-SEA come from?

333 - DTW-AMS-DTW
333 - DTW-AMS-DTW
333 - DTW-FRA-DTW
333 - DTW-LHR-DTW
333 - DTW-CDG-DTW
333 - MSP-AMS-MSP
333 - MSP-AMS-MSP
333 - MSP-AMS-MSP
333 - MSP-LHR-MSP
333 - MSP-CDG-MSP
333 - BOS-AMS-BOS
333 - MEM-AMS-MEM
333 - MSP-HNL-KIX
333 - KIX-HNL-MSP
333 - HNL-NRT-HNL
333 - NRT-SPN-NRT
333 - NRT-GUM-NRT
333 - NRT spare/NRT-SEA-NRT M,TH,SA
333 - spare
333 - spare
333 - spare
21 total

75A - BOS-AMS-BOS
75A - BDL-AMS-BDL
75A - DTW-DUS-DTW
75A - DTW-AMS-DTW
75A - DTW-LGW-DTW
75A - EWR-AMS-EWR
75A - EWR-AMS-EWR
75A - spare
75A - spare
75A - spare
10 total

Per my lists it seems there is at least room for another 744 flight, at least 2 333s, at least 2 75As and zero 332s. The biggest question to me is where the 332 for the SEA-lHR is coming from? THe 2007 75A routes weren't announced until early 2007, therefore I believe there is still time for June/July launches.


AZJ
 
pitops
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:20 pm



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 21):
But US Airways, Trans-Atlantic flights ain't coming to PIT for the forseeable from this airline. They ruled them out in there latest batch of cuts at the airport.

Exactly. US had no plans of doing much of anything from PIT but cutting more flights. Another round "rumored" to be happening in March.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
MAH4546
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:29 pm

FWIW, I've heard that the new 752 trans-Atlantic routes will be from Detroit, but that was two months ago and things change fast.

I'm also a little surprised that Northwest/KLM ignores Florida from AMS, although they've tried it (both MIA and MCO) in the past. Martinair Holland (50% owned by KLM) will be up to 8x weekly MIA-AMS in March, but why doesn't KLM just code-share on it? It gives them easy access to the Florida market, and no need to risk the low-yields that are typical on AMS-MIA (that MP is able to sustain based on their leisure model and their MIA cargo hub).
a.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:05 pm



Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
IND
CMH

Is NW thinking that the 75A has the legs for these two?

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 20):

Well if NWA has a flight that originates in the US to AMS and then continues on to Bombay it goes through a city. If BA has a flight that originates in LHR to DTW and then continues on to IAH, it goes through a city. Various cities in Asia are through cities out of NRT for NWA flights that began in the US. Need anymore?

So if it goes BOS-AMS-BDL, doesn't it go through AMS?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
bobnwa
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:14 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
So if it goes BOS-AMS-BDL, doesn't it go through AMS?

if it went AMS-BDL the long way around, then yes it would be a through flight. The way the flight is now, it is a turnaround.
 
BAKJet
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:36 am



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
As it stands right now the short list includes:
PHL
BWI
PIT
DEN
IND
CMH
RDU

I'm not questioning you but , where did you get this list from because it would be great if it were true that these airports were on the shortlist (especially, for me, IND)  Smile
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:00 am

The short list is based upon cities that NW/KLM has publicly expressed an interested in, or for cities where the airport /local government has expressed an interest and publicly mentioned and interest in having NW/KLM service to AMS.

IND, CMH, PIT, and RDU are markets where the airport administration has talked to NWA regarding AMS service. These are markets where the right type of incentive package could intice NW to start service, but markets where NW would likely not do so on their own without a significant marketing incentive guarantee.

PHL & BWI are ones that NW/KLM has expressed an interest in and could start/return with minimal local incentives.

DEN is one they'd like, but it is not feasible under any current means.
 
BAKJet
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:17 am

Thanks for the info PSU.STW.SCE, and to IND I say, Please offer the right incentive package!!!  Smile
 
jawake
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:45 am



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
As it stands right now the short list includes:
PHL
BWI
PIT
DEN
IND
CMH
RDU

So any idea how short this list will get? Are we looking at only one city? 2?, 3?, 4?

My vote is for PIT, IND, CMH
 
Indy
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:13 am



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 29):
IND, CMH, PIT, and RDU are markets where the airport administration has talked to NWA regarding AMS service. These are markets where the right type of incentive package could intice NW to start service, but markets where NW would likely not do so on their own without a significant marketing incentive guarantee.

Do incentive packages usually come from the city or the airport authority? Can an airport authority offer perhaps credits on lease fees for offering international service? Or is this the least likely incentive?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Cubsrule
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:16 am



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 27):
if it went AMS-BDL the long way around, then yes it would be a through flight. The way the flight is now, it is a turnaround.

So DTW-SDF-MSP is a turnaround but DTW-SDF-MEM is a through flight?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
phlwok
Posts: 439
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:39 am



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 29):
PHL & BWI are ones that NW/KLM has expressed an interest in and could start/return with minimal local incentives.

It would be nice to have another European option out of PHL. PHL-AMS peaked in the late '90s when NW ran a DC-10-30 (though it might not have been daily - can't remember) and US ran a 767-200ER. Both NW and US later dropped service, then US restarted it shortly thereafter with the 762. Currently, just US runs either a 762 or 752 depending upon the season.

With AF, BA and LH all seeming to do reasonably well here, and the horrid state of business class on US, it would seem there's some market opportunity for NW to at least give it a try with a 757. It would be nice to have another viable connecting option in Europe.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:16 am



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 23):
332 - SEA-NRT-ICN
332 - ICN-NRT-SEA
332 - PDX-NRT-SIN
332 - SIN-NRT-PDX
332 - SFO-NRT-BKK
332 - BKK-NRT-SFO
332 - SEA-AMS-BOM
332 - BOM-AMS-SEA
332 - PDX-AMS-PDX
332 - NRT-PEK-NRT
332 - SEA RON spare
11 total but where does SEA-LHR-SEA come from?



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
A330-200
1 SEA-NRT
2 SEA-AMS
3 SEA-LHR
4 PDX-NRT
5 PDX-AMS
6 SFO-NRT
7 AMS-BOM
8 NRT-BKK/ICN
9 NRT-PEK/SIN
10 SEA-NRT (additional weekly frequencies) / spare
11 maintenance / spare

The additional weekly SEA NRT frequencies will be operated with A333 next summer, and will increase to 3 weekly from last year's 2 weekly. These flights are fed from NRT, rather than from SEA, and as such operate NRT SEA NRT on days 1, 4 and 6.

Also, it is not possible to operate NRT-BKK/ICN and NRT-PEK/SIN with one aircraft, as all of these routes need an own aircraft. As such the A332 utilization looks as follows on a sector basis:

1. SEA NRT
2. PDX NRT
3. SFO NRT
4. NRT SIN
5. NRT BKK
6. NRT PEK
7. NRT ICN
8. SEA AMS
9. SEA LHR
10. PDX AMS
11. AMS BOM

SEA, nevertheless, needs an RON in the current schedule setup, so we are short one aircraft. It is therefore likely that one A332 rotation in the above list (SEA NRT, AMS BOM or one of the intra Asia rotations from NRT) will be swapped from A332 to some other equipment.
 
bobnwa
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Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:08 pm



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
So DTW-SDF-MSP is a turnaround but DTW-SDF-MEM is a through flight?

I think you have got it now. Remember I said this was aircraft not crews.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:27 pm



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 36):
I think you have got it now. Remember I said this was aircraft not crews.

Thanks; I was thinking of it from a crew perspective, and it wasn't making much sense (for DTW-AMS-BOS is crewed the same way as DTW-AMS-BOM)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3402
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:50 pm

HB-IWC - exactly, see my list. The interesting bit about the extra sections NRT-SEA-NRT on the 333 is that it seems NWA intends to keep a spare 333 sitting in NRT. Currently and for the summer (as we know it) there are 3, 333 operations. NRT-HNL/GUM/SPN. Two spend the night while one does the NRT-HNL-NRT rotation/bridge back to the US. This leads me to believe now, that another 333 will be used for the interport system. There is no practical (IMO) need to have a spare for 3 flights a day, especially when 2 already RON...unless you add flying.

Since a 332 is needed for SEA-LHR-SEA and to continue the 332 RON for mx (interestingly the new LHR flights give NWA more flexibility in RON a/c for SEA) something will upgauge. It will either upgauge to a 333 or 744. My initial bet was on a 744, but now I revise my educated guess to a 333. In reality they could do what many other airlines around the world do and assign "EQV" to the a/c type for the NRT-ICN/PEK/BKK/SIN flights. NWA would then have the flexibility to use a 333 when needed for these sectors. Or, they could just officially make one of these a 333 and swap when needed like they did with AMS-MEM and occasionally with NRT-SEA.

With the slack in the 333/744 fleets, they can get creative. I still think we'll hear more about the 75A fleet and see some 333/744/332 shuffling and hopefully a 744 cabin refurb announcement.


AZJ
 
A330323X
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:08 pm



Quoting PHLwok (Reply 34):
Both NW and US later dropped service,

US never dropped PHL-AMS service. PHL-BRU was the only PHL route to be dropped (and later resumed).
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:50 pm



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 38):
Two spend the night while one does the NRT-HNL-NRT rotation/bridge back to the US. This leads me to believe now, that another 333 will be used for the interport system. There is no practical (IMO) need to have a spare for 3 flights a day, especially when 2 already RON...unless you add flying.

As of right now there appears to be some question about the number of NRT-HNL flights for next summer. Last summer NW flew 3 daily NRT-HNL flights (2x 333, 1x 744). In 2006 it was 2 daily flights (1x DC-10. 1x 744). Right now they are showing only 2 for next summer, but a 3rd daily flight may allocate another A330.

I doubt we will see anymore brand new A330 routes for next summer, but perhaps some additional frequency changes, swaps between NW/KLM, equipment switches between 332/333/744 like you say. However, there sure looks like there could be some new 75A flying to be announced.
 
azjubilee
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:17 pm

PSU - Agreed. That 3rd daily HNL-NRT flight only operated for 2 months... I guess we'll see if it returns. Plenty of time to sort out the schedule.


AZJ
 
phlwok
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RE: PIT-AMS On NW/KL?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:35 pm



Quoting A330323X (Reply 39):
US never dropped PHL-AMS service. PHL-BRU was the only PHL route to be dropped (and later resumed).

I didn't think I was dreaming on this, and it has been a while, but after searching a bit I am correct in that US did indeed drop AMS in 1999 and resumed it in April 2001:
Why Did US Airways Pull Out Of AMS (by ContinentalEWR Jun 6 2000 in Civil Aviation)
PR for resumption: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200008/ai_mark06014664

I recall thinking it odd at the time PHL went from a DC-10 (NW) and 767-200ER (US) service to nothing in a short period of time, but US resumed AMS after a relatively short hiatus.