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czbbflier
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Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:31 pm

I've noticed here at YVR that Philippine Airlines' A340s are registered in France. I've never seen this sort of an arrangement before and doing a Wikipedia search I see that Philippine Airlines has both French and American registrations for their aircraft in addition to a few Philippine-registered A/C. (Their A-330s and A-340s are registered as F-O" and the B-747s have N numbers.) Wiki Article: Scroll to "Fleet"

How and why is it that Philippine Airlines flies with foreign registered aircraft? Are the aircraft operated under Philippine law or under French and American laws depending on the A/C?
 
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yowza
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:18 pm

This is very common. If aircraft are leased or financed they are often registered in the home countries of the leasing/financing companies who are involved.

YOWza
 
COSPN
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:06 pm

Easier to Reposess the Aircraft , under Philippine law it is almost impossible.. the planes just sit FOREVER there are many exaamples in MNL CRK SFS rotting away.. One GrandAir is still in CRK rusting away ... There was a US marshall show a few years back where the Marshall "arrested" a PAL 747-400 at the gate in LAX untill the bill was paid..
 
leamside
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
Marshall "arrested" a PAL 747-400 at the gate in LAX untill the bill was paid

Let us not forget that PAL sued and a US COURT ORDERED the return of the 747 to PAL.

[Edited 2007-12-17 12:13:07]
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:15 am

Does that mean the aircraft and crew must conform to French and American laws depending on the country of registration? If so, how does that work? Are the air crews French and American?
 
jasp25
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:48 am



Quoting Czbbflier (Reply 4):
If so, how does that work? Are the air crews French and American?

Philippine Airlines crew personnel are all Filipinos. (Correct me if I am wrong)

-jasp
-peace and chicken grease!
 
COSPN
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:36 am

Nothing to do with the Crews but the A/C has to be maintained according to the French or US Airworthiness regulations not really a problem as most of the rules are almost the same...and many PAL A&P's hold US FAA Licenses also....Its more a paperwork and Records issue than anything else there are many N and F-0 (French Overseas) operating world wide also EI (Ireland) and P4 (Aruba) are popular...

Im glad PAL got thier plane out of Hoc and back in the air...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:13 am

These are probably short term Leases,so not needed to Register them in the country.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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czbbflier
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:25 pm

Thanks all for the info!
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:40 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
These are probably short term Leases,so not needed to Register them in the country.

No, they are PAL regular aircraft.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
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LTU932
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:14 pm

However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).
 
jasp25
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:22 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).

You're probably talking about certain units that were purchased by PR.

-jasp
-peace and chicken grease!
 
extspotter
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:48 pm

sounds a bit like Alitalia, their MDs and some A320s are Italian registered, but some A320s, 767s, 777s and MD11Fs are Irish registered - EI- instead of I-
AF BE BY FR MV PD SZ U2 VZ DHC6, 8-3/4Q, 732/8, 763ER, A319, A380
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:49 pm



Quoting Jasp25 (Reply 11):
Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
However, PR is slowly re-registering certain aircraft with foreign registrations and is giving them Filipino registrations (RP-C****).

You're probably talking about certain units that were purchased by PR.

-jasp

None of the A330/340 or B747 have been re-registered.

A320 series have been delivered with RP-C regos, the ex-CP 744 likewise. Only re-registered aircraft might have been the B737s (1 left) from EI to RP-C, though not sure about that.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
rfields5421
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:58 pm

One of the problem of registering certain aircraft in a country such as the Philippines is certification of the aircraft.

Basically the Philippine version of the FAA has to hire or train enough expertise locally to be able to inspect and verify the aircraft meet standards. For many types it's just a whole lot cheaper to have the registration and certification remain in another country.

While a country can just register any aircraft without having that expertise, it can run into problems with their certification being not recognized in other countries. In some cases, national pride requires local registration - and they have to establish complex agreements to have a nation with expertise supervise and run their aircraft certification programs. Australia does this for several small nations in Oceania - at a healthy profit I'm sure.

No disrespect to the Philippines intended or implied. You just have to have a certain number of aircraft to justify the expense.

I don't remember the specific model - but there is one of the Boeing B737 series which cannot be registered in Canada I've been told. That is why the only Canada based model of that aircraft is registered in Aruba. (Though that story always seemed a bit fishy to me)
 
Viscount724
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:20 am



Quoting YOWza (Reply 1):
This is very common. If aircraft are leased or financed they are often registered in the home countries of the leasing/financing companies who are involved.

Another example is Aeroflot. All their current Boeing and Airbus aircraft are registered in Bermuda to avoid high Russian taxes on foreign-built aircraft imported to Russia. If memory correct, their A310s (no longer in service) were registered in France.
 
Devilfish
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RE: Philippine Airlines: Why Foreign Registration?

Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:21 am



Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 13):
None of the A330/340 or B747 have been re-registered.

While the A330/A340s are likely on lease, this 744 originally ordered by PR but delivered instead to Canadian - finally got its Philippine registration.....

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