maxfly
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LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:10 pm

as per LH website: LH will start serving Luanda starting April 1, 2008 with one weekly 3-class A343
Tue: LH 560, dep FRA 8.30pm, arr LAD 03.55am (+1) 343
Wed LH 561, dep. LAD 8.40pm, arr. FRA 06.05am (+1) 343
 
swissgabe
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:24 pm

Not really surprising. Is a layover of 14-15h enough for a crew rest?
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:26 pm



Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 1):
Not really surprising. Is a layover of 14-15h enough for a crew rest?

It is for us. That or it's a week long layover. Not very cost effective.
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swissgabe
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:33 pm



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
It is for us. That or it's a week long layover. Not very cost effective.

SU for example had something like a 24h layover in LAD.

Quite tough to fly 10-11h from FRA to LAD, layover of 14-15h (rest time around 12h) and again a 10-11h trip from LAD to FRA.

Most if not all charter planes from Europe to long haul destinations (eg Maldives) let their crew stay 7 days at the destination. Maybe another fact could also be the destination it self, not much fun staying 7 days in Luanda I assume.
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Hirnie
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting Swissgabe (Reply 3):
Quite tough to fly 10-11h from FRA to LAD

I don't think that it's 10-11h on this leg.It should be around 9h I think. Still a long way to go for such a short layover.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:08 pm

You are also getting crew rest on the flights to/from LAD.

Short layover = productive trip

Long layover = no-so productive
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PanAm747
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:01 pm

I'm sure the fact that it is a once-a-week trip has to do with a very restrictive bilateral agreement, as it seems Angola has with every country.

The plane is scheduled to be on the ground for 16 hours and 45 minutes. How long of a crew rest will that provide?
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:14 pm



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
How long of a crew rest will that provide?

Crew rest can be defined as from time after duty day ends from the arrival at the destination to when the crew is required to be at the aircraft the next day.

For example: (if it were CO) :30 minutes after plane blocks in crew rest starts (0425) to 1740 (time for crew to be at aircraft). Crew rest (which includes travel time, checking into hotel, checking out of hotel, travel to airport - sad but the reality of it) is 15:15.

So 15:15 would be the crew rest (based on if it were CO, which I know it is not).

We have short day layovers in GRU and EZE of 12-13 hours (after a 9-10 hour flight). Other airlines do the same.
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earlynff
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:59 am



Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
How long of a crew rest will that provide?

long enough for LH crews.

I need not look for the exact terms, but schedule times are a clear indication that the same crew will fly back.

Quoting Hirnie (Reply 4):
I don't think that it's 10-11h on this leg.It should be around 9h I think.

Hirnie, make use of your nick! Flight time is not duty time!  Wink
 
Hirnie
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 8):
Hirnie, make use of your nick! Flight time is not duty time!

I know. But Swissgabe wrote that it would be quite tough to FLY 10-11h etc. So I think he meant flight time. If the flihgt is about 2h shorter than he mentioned, than the on duty time will be 2h shorter as well. But it's still a tough trip if the crew has a layover of only about half a day in LAD.
 
Avianca
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:36 am



Quoting Maxfly (Thread starter):
Tue: LH 560, dep FRA 8.30pm, arr LAD 03.55am (+1) 343
Wed LH 561, dep. LAD 8.40pm, arr. FRA 06.05am (+1) 343

why didnt they scheduled the flight a little bit later?
leaving FRA at 10:30pm arriving in LAD at 5:55am

and

leaving LAD at 10:40pm arriving in FRA at 08:05am

cheers
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rb211tristar
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:14 pm

If for some reason the flight into LAD is delayed by an amount which breaks the threshold of the crew rest period, does that mean the outbound is automatically delayed?
 
LXA340
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:16 pm



Quoting RB211TriStar (Reply 11):
If for some reason the flight into LAD is delayed by an amount which breaks the threshold of the crew rest period, does that mean the outbound is automatically delayed?

Theoretically yes, because the airline can get large fines if the cre rest times aren't stricktly respected.
 
flyinTLow
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:21 pm

Also if they fly a 3-man crew (with a Senior F/O), the crew rest times will be a lot less restrictive. That might be a key to it all as well.

JAR OPS I think (if I remember correctly, long time since I last read that) says 12 hours of rest time for a duty time of up to 10 hours. Or was it the other way around? Something like that.
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wilco737
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:22 pm

The German law only needs 10 hour of crew rest! The companies have a little more crew rest, but usually 12 hours is sufficient, in some cases 14 hours... So this trip can be possible with a pretty short layover down there...

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musapapaya
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:37 pm



Quoting FlyinTLow (Reply 13):
Also if they fly a 3-man crew (with a Senior F/O), the crew rest times will be a lot less restrictive. That might be a key to it all as well.

I think they will be doing a 3 man crew? Always thought that anything over 8 hours needs 3 cockpit crew, am i right?
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wilco737
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 15):
ways thought that anything over 8 hours needs 3 cockpit crew, am i right?

Its not about the flight time, its about the great circle distance and it is different for 744 and 343 because of the different speeds! I dont know the exact values. Of course there are some exceptions as well! Some flights which leave in the middle of the night somewhere, they sometimes get a 3rd man (or women) as cockpit crew...
I am talking about LH here! some other airlines may have different rules...

WILCO737 (MD11F)


[Edited 2007-12-18 06:43:50]
 
earlynff
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RE: LH Confirms Flights To LAD

Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:34 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 16):
I dont know the exact values.

at LH, the kicker for 3rd (wo)man is 4200NM for B744. Special rules apply sometimes.