FLY777UAL
Topic Author
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Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:40 pm

Weight aside, would plexiglass doors between cabins (a la Virgin America's plexiglass bulkhead between F and Y) that could be stowed for takeoff and landing still be permissible under TSA/FAA regulations for direct view access? Just a thought outside the box and away from the mesh curtains...

Thanks,

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

edit: to reiterate, yet again, weight not being an issue. The issue is: will it comply with FAA regulations?

[Edited 2007-12-20 10:13:47]
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:55 pm



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):

I dont think any airline would go for this because plexiglass weighs more than mesh curtains do. Everything nowadays has to do with saving fuel as much as possible.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:57 pm

So you would like the idea of flying behind a wall that isn't a bulkhead?! So you'd like to block off the airplane to insult everyone in coach like they have SARS?
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:05 pm

I think this idea has some merit, but I don't think you'll see it. Really only of use in limited places. You might see it on a carrier like EK in the future, but that's just a guess.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 2):
So you'd like to block off the airplane to insult everyone in coach like they have SARS?

I guess all those people on the TGV and ICE trains are insulted on the mixed 1st/2nd class pullmans with plexiglass divider doors?

Insecurities about your own self worth are nobody's problem but your own...  Wink
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LY4XELD
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:06 pm

That'd be extremely hazardous in the event of a fire. At least with a mesh curtain you have a *chance* of seeing it through smoke or at least can break through it. It'd be hard to break down plexiglass in an emergency. Not to mention, it probably doesn't meet any fire resistant/retardant requirements.
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justplanenutz
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:12 pm

Thinking of segregating the kiddies, are we?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:13 pm



Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 4):
It'd be hard to break down plexiglass in an emergency. Not to mention, it probably doesn't meet any fire resistant/retardant requirements.

We are talking about a door that slides out of the way during T/O, landing and any emergency. The door would lock open, then be manually controlled during flight. If it were to become inop, it would be locked open during flight as well.

VX and others already have plexiglass dividers between F and Y seats, but not a door that slide across the aisle. That is what is proposed here. Further, there is no need it be full floor to ceiling and likely wouldn't. It would like only be the height of the bottom of the bins, leaving plenty of air space above for ventilation and to hear crew instructions and such.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
pmk
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:20 pm

Well I look at it this way, why add another maintenance item?

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lincoln
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:43 pm



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
The issue is: will it comply with FAA regulations?

I beleive the FARs prohibit doors in passenger cabins without jumping through hoops... When I get home from work...eh, never mind...

For example, 14 CFR 23.813 ("Emergency Exit Access") (b)(3) through (b)(5):
(3) If it is necessary to pass through a passageway between passenger compartments to reach a required emergency exit from any seat in the passenger cabin, the passageway must be unobstructed; however, curtains may be used if they allow free entry through the passageway.

(4) No door may be installed in any partition between passenger compartments unless that door has a means to latch it in the open position. The latching means must be able to withstand the loads imposed upon it by the door when the door is subjected to the inertia loads resulting from the ultimate static load factors prescribed in §23.561(b)(2).

(5) If it is necessary to pass through a doorway separating the passenger cabin from other areas to reach a required emergency exit from any passenger seat, the door must have a means to latch it in the open position. The latching means must be able to withstand the loads imposed upon it by the door when the door is subjected to the inertia loads resulting from the ultimate static load factors prescribed in §23.561(b)(2).

So...my read is that the a door could be used if the latch to hold it open can survive crash loads...which would in turn increase weight and maintenance... and you'd likely have to find somewhere to store the door during take off and landing because unless you were really clever with your galley/lav/door coordination, the door would probably block access to one or more seats in the open position, meaning it wouldn't fly (excuse the pun) from a safety perspective. Remember, for example, that if a tray table is stuck in the down position that seat (and possibly that row if it's an asile seat) can't be sold because the tray table impeads evacuation)

My thoughts...

Lincoln
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dl767captain
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:54 pm

Would definately look nicer, but i don't think they would really weigh enough to really be a problem
 
Jasondn
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:03 pm



Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
would plexiglass doors between cabins

The only real solution I could think of, would be a roller door from the roof to the ground. The problem with a regular door is obviously trying to get it to work within the galley and the lav. A sliding door could also work, but might restrict the recline of the seats in the forward part of the cabin.
 
srbmod
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curta

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:03 pm



Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 4):
That'd be extremely hazardous in the event of a fire. At least with a mesh curtain you have a *chance* of seeing it through smoke or at least can break through it.

I'm getting the visual of a bird flying into a picture window or a glass sliding door.

I don't think that a plexiglass cabin "curtain" divider would fly. It works fine in regards to bulkhead walls, but in such an application as suggested by the thread starter really isn't practical. Besides the obvious weight issue, where the heck (or how the heck) are they going to stow it when not in use? I don't think having it on a track like a window would work because some a/c really don't have the "attic" that other planes have above the cabin. And hinging it and swinging it into position probably would be practical.

The mesh curtain that is being used by some airlines (Not all airlines use them, preferring to not have any sort of curtain divider at all. In addition, not all a/c in an airlines' fleet has had them installed.). is the best solution to having some sort of "wall" between cabins.

Hey, it could be worse, it could be a beaded curtain......  duck 
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:08 pm

it will clearly comply with regulations as cited by Lincoln...

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 8):
No door may be installed in any partition between passenger compartments unless that door has a means to latch it in the open position.

seems rather simple. no hoops to jump through. just the same kind of latches used on storage doors, lav doors, etc. or possibly a kick stop that pops up and prevents the door from moving.

Quoting Jasondn (Reply 10):
The only real solution I could think of, would be a roller door from the roof to the ground.

actually, I would imagine something with full extension glides and no track on the floor. the real issue is that if it were to be motorized like on a train, that is a lot of weight and complexity. but a manual door with a handle would be rather simple. latching it open would also be very simple.

it's the weight that's the issue, but we aren't supposed to consider that as per the OP request...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
LY4XELD
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:40 pm



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
Hey, it could be worse, it could be a beaded curtain...... duck

As Pam Ann said "We don't do doors."  Smile
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Plexiglass Door/Dividers In Lieu Of Mesh Curtains?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:06 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 3):
I guess all those people on the TGV and ICE trains are insulted on the mixed 1st/2nd class pullmans with plexiglass divider doors?

That is nothing like the US airline industry and I'm sure there is an FAA regulation that outlines why this has not been done.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!

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