oxygen
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 1999 12:27 am

Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Fri Sep 01, 2000 9:09 pm

Well, sorry if this question is asked before.
Why does Qantas uses GE engines, RR engines, and PW engines on their 767s ? Wouldn't it make them less-economical ?
I seldom see an airline using all three types of engines in the same class...... wouldn't it be better if they have an all GE fleet, all PW fleet or all RR fleet ( together with the 747s ) ?

thanks
james
 
tim
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sat Sep 02, 2000 7:08 am

They dont have a choice on some of them.
When they buy new, they choose GE CF 6-80C2B6 engines for their 763's.
The 762's (as you mention) are equipped with P & W JT9 D-7R4E powerplants.

But when they aquire planes from other airlines they just get what they are given.
For instance the 7 763's from BA (of which they currently have 3 of) are RR powered.

Tim
Australia

 
Guest

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sat Sep 02, 2000 4:47 pm

When QF ordered the original 7 767-200ER's with P&W engines this WAS to streamline the number of engine types in the fleet. At the time QF operated 747's with P&W and RR engines only and the RR was not available on the 762 back in '84. Since then QF ordered GE for all its 763's except the ex-BA a/c which are of course RR powered (BA's choice not QF's)

Similarly the QF 747 fleet is all RR, except for the 3 GE powered a/c ex MH and OZ.

But i think it makes Qantas the only airline to operate all 3 engine types on the 747 and now the 767!!

Cheers 
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sat Sep 02, 2000 5:49 pm

Saw VH-ZXC (one of the ex BA 767-336ERs) in CNS last Monday on a domestic service. Looked and sounded pretty good.

Certainly good variety for people modelling Qantas aircraft.

Another question would be "How much longer will QF operate the 767-238s?" Candidates for RAAF Tanker / Transports so that the 707s can be retired?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sat Sep 02, 2000 6:49 pm

XQF,
Qantas never operated all 3 engine types on the B747 simultaneously. The early PW powered aircraft were long gone before the GE powered aircraft arrived in 1998.

However, in the late 1980s, British Airways did operate all 3 engine types on their B747 fleet;
PW engines - B747-100s
GE engines - B747-200s (ex British Caledonian)
RR engines - B747-2/400s.

Qantas in taking the RR powered B767-300s have made no difference to the powerplants they operate, as the same engine already powers most of their B747-400s. So they are already very experienced with the engine, except there are now some minor changes because it is attached to a 767. Same as when Qantas took the Asian GE-powered B747-400s, almost the same engine is found on their 767-300s, so it would require almost no extra work to introduce these aircraft into their fleet.

Regards
JET SETTER
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sat Sep 02, 2000 10:42 pm

I don't think there is a problem with Qantas having 767s with 3 different engines as long as they have other aircraft like their 747s that are powered the same engines so they can share spare parts.
 
wingman
Posts: 2792
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:03 am

Ted Ted Ted,

for someone who defends engine commonality with such vigor, I'm surprised to hear you say that it's quite acceptable to operate three separate engine types on both the 747 and 767. Believe me, QF operations staff and accounting must vomit every time they order parts in low volume and never receive the discounted pricing enjoyed by the carriers operating a single type.

Then again, QF finance must surely have done the calculations and decided that buying used regardless of engine type was cheaper than buying new with a single engine type. Still, it must be a fine line in total cost over 5-10 years between the two options when factoring in depreciation and cost of ownership.

If we're all still alive someday, we may actually see QF order brand new planes all by themselves. Naah, who am I kidding. I have a vision now of QF ordering second-hand A350s from Emirates in 2017...
 
Guest

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:17 am

Wingman,
Qantas didn't buy used aircraft (they are leased anyway) regardless of engine type.

The same engine that powers 23 of Qantas' B747-400s also powers the 7 British Airways B767-300s on lease. That's a total operational fleet of 106 RB211-524G/H engines, plus 52 earlier RB211-524D4 engines that power the B747-2/300s. So I doubt Qantas ops and accounting staff are vomiting every time they order parts from RR in low volume and never receive the discounted pricing enjoyed by the carriers operating a single type.

I'd say they made a sensible decision to take some very well maintained, modern aircraft, completely compatible with their existing fleet on lease at an advantageous rate on lease from one of their major shareholders.

Yes, they really do throw their money away at Qantas  
 
v jet
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 9:04 am

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sun Sep 03, 2000 4:42 am

Gee Wingman I'm glad you're not running QF! Sounds like you'd be running out buying every new acft type there is. 300 seaters and A3xx are under constant evaluation. As QF management says unless there is a very strong business case to support the introduction of a new type then it wont happen until their is. To me that is very good news to both shareholders and employees. Seeing I'm both then I'm very happy with that view. I get good returns on shares and also get great pay and conditions. That can only be supported by a healthy business as witnessed yet again by the record profit announced by the Qantas board a couple of weeks ago.
My $.02c AUD incl GST.  
 
TSV
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 12:13 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Sun Sep 03, 2000 5:08 pm

Sad to see yet another Australian absorbing the GST!

Anyone have any news on the much talked about but yet to be announced (unless I missed it) 777 order?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
tim
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Mon Sep 04, 2000 8:25 am

Jetsetter,

Just correcting what you say at the top. QF only have 21 RR powered 744's. VH-OJA - VH-OJU. The other two VH-OED, VH-OEC (ex MH and Asiana) are either P&W or GE powered, cant remember which one.


Cheers
Tim
Australia
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Mon Sep 04, 2000 9:20 am

QF have stated that they are keen to retire their 762's within 2 years so people who are appalled by QF's fleet decisions will not have to worry much longer.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
 
Guest

RE: Tim

Mon Sep 04, 2000 1:22 pm

Just correcting your correction   Qantas has 24 747-400.....

The RR powered....VH-OJA,OJB,OJC,OJD,OJE,OJF,OJG,OJH,OJI,OJJ,OJK,OJL,OJM,OJN,OJO,OJP,OJQ,OJR,OJS,OJT,OJU ...plus....3 GE powered a/c VH-OEB,OEC,OED.

plus...
6 x 747-300
4 x 747-200 &
2 x 747-SP

all in all a fleet of 36 747's.....not bad!! 

Cheers!  
 
tim
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:54 pm

Roger that!

So 21 x 744 RR
& 3 x744 GE

 
Guest

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Mon Sep 04, 2000 9:45 pm

Yes, 21 RR powered 744s!
Sorry, I just rechecked JP Airline fleets - must have miscounted first time around 
 
wingman
Posts: 2792
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

RE: Qantas 767 With RR,PW,GE

Mon Sep 04, 2000 11:04 pm

Easy there mates. I was being a little facetious and getting impatient with QF's delay in announcing their new purchases. I keep hearing about 777s and 350s but nothing ever seems to be official.

Sometimes Ted annoys me with his morbid fixation on engines. But that's my problem. I'm also glad I'm not running QF or any other airline. I have enough heartburn as it is.