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Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 5:42 am

The Australian Financial Review (AFR) has a report today discussing the future of Oneworld. The basis of the report appears to be that AA is very unhappy with BA and the whole Oneworld alliance and now sees its future with Swissair and Qualiflyer. Unfortunately the report is not available on the AFR website.

The report is based on a report in a Belgian newspaper in which the AA MD of Alliance Development stated this intention as well as saying AA believes more in Sabena/Swissair than in BA. AA is also believed to be unhappy with BA's courting of KLM.

Has anyone else heard of where this will all end up? I guess the obvious conclusion is that most of Oneworld (AA, MH, EI etc) will join Qualiflyer whilst those members of Oneworld closely aligned with BA (BA and QF) will join with KLM and Northwest in a new alliance called "Wings" I guess. Oneworld would cease to exist.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am


Everybody keeps saying "oneworld this" and "oneworld that", always plotting it's downfall. The jist of it is... it's not likely to happen.

IF BA & KLM merge, they become a single entity, that's all. They still need a US partner no? Yes there's Northwest, but who really wants to hub out of MSP and DTW (i seem to think everybody's opinion of DTW is not good right?) when you've got the second largest airline in the world, hubs in big cities like New York and Chicago, is held in high regard, and so on?

I also seem to remember ramblings about AA and NW in the same type of talks that BA/KLM are going into, perhaps oneworld has figured out a way to beat by that dumb DOT who refuses to let AA/BA codeshare... I mean come on they let UA/LH do it, they are just as big, if not bigger!!!

If I were in charge... things would be different. But #1 would be to update the oneworld's website's image... needs an image change AND FAST!

But, honestly folks, i think all this is a little premature, at least for the foreseeable future oneworld will remain oneworld, maybe gain a few members, but no more than 10, Star's just a jumbled mess, I'd never try connecting through them.

Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:16 am

I can't believe this report. The far more likely scenario would be AA to Qualifier and oneworld to then pick up MH,NW and KL. MH is almost certain to join oneworld. Wings will be the alliance that will cease to exist. AA/BA instability does not mean the end of oneworld. It is a very dynamic business these airline alliances and there will be changes and some airlines will change camp but this report is a bit hard to believe. There is some chance also of an AA/NW merger that could make oneworld very strong in North America. QF are extremely close to AA and have huge code-sharing relationships with them that they would be very loath to give-up. I, for one don't think the BA/AA problems are terminal.
However, I believe almost anything could happen in the airline industry but the scenario spelled out in the Belgian press is extremely unlikely to occur.

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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:19 am

Airlines seem to change their alliances about as often as I change my socks! Just about every month we read that someone has jumped ship with oneworld and linked up with Star or Skyteam and vice-versa.

To say one alliance is dying today could be exaggerated as two more entrants may sign up tomorrow. Call it the "Alliance Tango."

The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:46 am


Where did you get the idea that just about every other month another airline is "jumping ship" from oneworld?

You may recall, Canadian was the ONLY member to leave the oneworld alliance, and not because it wanted to, but because they were bought out by the competitor. Since then, oneworld has gained members, not lost them. This is a fact, not fiction.

I personally don't see AA withdrawing from the oneworld alliance. As a founding member, they've invested too much time, money and technology to the cause. Besides, why would they withdraw? What major setback have they experienced being a part of the oneworld alliance. Exactly, they haven't. AA and the rest of the oneworld members are only gaining by being a part of the team.

Oneworld will survive and flourish. I also totally support the fact that they (oneworld) selectively choose their members, unlike other airline alliances, who let just about anyone join.

oneworld, the one airline alliance that REVOLVES AROUND YOU.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:45 pm

One more reason to stick with the stability offered by the STAR Alliance.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:39 am

who ever said that this was true? there is just a little turbulance but SN and SR would not have allianced with AA if they found aer lingus or british airways as a threat. I am sick of people dissing Oneworld,to be honest with you,I am not so sure Star will get off the ground.Oneworld is a good alliance and I have made a connection from BA to AA and had no problem with it,and this was after Oneworld was created. I seriously doubt BA and KLM will merge.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:01 am

If AA is SO unhappy with oneworld - which again - there is still no hard evidence that this is true...it may leave the alliance if it so wishes. AA has FAR more to lose by leaving oneworld than any of the other carriers who are IN oneworld.

I agree with Delacary - should AA go it may even pave the way for an easier BA/KL merger and with that pick NW and MAS up. Not only that - with KLM onboard - oneworld gains Kenya Airways and Jet Airways.

oneworld with BA, KL, QF, CX, MH, KQ, LA, IB, AY and Jet. - seems to have the world pretty well covered to me with access to some of the world most populous areas....well apart from maybe Finland  

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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:27 am


I have managed to get my hands on a copy of the article, which is quite an interesting read and seems very real. A quote from the article is:

"The Managing Director of alliance development for American Airlines, Mr Robert Britton, said the US carrier was considering switching from Oneworld to the Qualifier group, in which Swissair and the Belgian carrier Sabena are the key members.

The claims, made by MR Britton in the Belgian national financial daily newspaper L' Echo, have not been challenged by his airline."

Most of the problem seems to surround BA, particularly with reference to its want to merge with KLM. It appears that even James Strong from QF is talking with BA over "the direction of the alliance should BA proceed with the merger..."

If someone can tell me how, I will scan the article and post it up here.

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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Thu Sep 07, 2000 7:05 am

Hey MAS777:

AY (Finnair), while Finland only has 5 million people, it's domestic route system is pretty wrapped up (it is the densest domestic air route system in the world), Finnair is poised to attack SAS at a crucial point: Swedish domestic services.

Having aligned with Flying Enterprise and Golden Air (Golden Air flies from Helsinki to small destinations in Finland like Savonlinna and Varkaus with ex-Finnaviation/Finnair SF340's) and second to SAS in terms of flights at Stockholm-Arlanda. SAS was attempting to do the same to the Finnish domestic market with their purchase of KF (Air Botnia), but instead KF seems to be flying mostly international routes now.

Being on the great circle routes, Helsinki is actually a really good hub: bright, modern, connection times as low as 15 minutes, and connecting through Helsinki is a breeze. Ranked among the top five (#1 twice) airports in the world, I would say oneworld should focus their Northern Europe hub there (ie AA drop ORD and go for HEL!  )

Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:48 am

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--AMR Corp.'s (AMR) American Airlines has no plan
to leave the Oneworld Alliance with British Airways PLC (BAB) and
Australia's Qantas Airways Ltd. (A.QAN), the second-largest U.S. carrier
said Tuesday through a spokesperson.
Speculation that American Airlines will withdraw from the alliance to
join SAirGroup's (Z.SAG) Swissair's Qualiflyer group mounted after a
media report quoted American's managing director of alliance
development, Robert Britton, as being keen to leave the union in favor
of a link with Swissair and Sabena (B.SAB) of Belgium.
But "Mr. Britton did not make these comments," said American spokesman
Chris Chiames, adding that "there is a lot of interest in really
Global alliances have become important to airlines in recent years as
they allow passengers to use frequent-flier miles on partner airlines
and enable companies to increase revenue without boosting capital
-By Sonoko Setaishi; Dow Jones Newswires; 201-938-4148;

04:08 PM

'nuf said.
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Thu Sep 07, 2000 10:04 am


I wasn't speaking specifically about oneworld when I posted that, I was talking about the industry in general.

True CP has left oneworld for Star, also:
AZ and KL had a messy divorce earlier in the year.
SQ has moved from whatever DL's alliance was (now Skyteam) to Star
AF have moved from an alliance with CO to Skyteam
VS moved from DL to CO a few years back, and is now in bed with SQ and is rumored to be joining star in the future.

That's all I can recall at 12 midnight...


The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Sun Sep 10, 2000 7:30 pm


No offence...Its just that Finnair is probably one of the smallest carriers with the smallest population served within oneworld. I wasn't taking the p***

RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Sun Sep 10, 2000 7:51 pm

HEL is indeed a very easy and convenient place to connect. It is also the only airport I can remember seeing my plane from the check-in (BA 757)!

It's really not that busy, so you don't get massive crowds.

ANYWAY, I hear that with a new CEO, BA are likely to make a few unexpected decisions in the future...
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RE: Oneworld On The Skids

Mon Sep 11, 2000 2:07 am

I see annother possibility: BA leaves Oneworld because of the merger with KL (Northwest) and then Oneworld merges with Qualiflyer.

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