maha
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:24 am

Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:36 am

Anyone know anything about the major announcement Delta will be making tomorrow regarding their PDX International gateway?

All Delta's PDX flight attendants were called today by phone to be present at tommorw's meeting. They were all informed Delta will be making a major International change at PDX??

Any ideas?
 
747firstclass
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 2:45 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:48 am

I feel certain that it will be that DL is suspending all international flights from PDX. DL is very upset with the INS at Portland because of the problems with the very high rate of deportation there. There is a possibility that the announcement will be a public condemnation of the INS operations there, and give a public warning to clean up their act or else. My hunch however, is that DL will announce that they are pulling all international flights from there and reducing schedules to other cities.
 
DeltaAir
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 5:11 am

We've thought this announcement might be comming for a little while now. I suppose it is both good and bad news, but Delta does need the additional aircraft at this time. Maybe they know something we don't.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 5:12 am

BTW, It's called Deportland by Asians.  
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 5:22 am

There were reports last June in the Portland Oregonian that DL was considering curtailing its pacific operations from PDX due to INS problems as well as weak load factors. It'll be interesting what they will say.

Charles
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:13 am

will any other carrier take the gate space. Continental always needed a weastern hub.

Oh boy i am f**ked.  
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:20 am

i'll miss them


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



 
N960AS
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:15 am

Oh is that really true? I hope not. I go to PDX a lot but I've hardly ever seen all the DL gates full. I don't know what time the asia flights leave, but its been pretty empty. I was there in July and during the 3 extra hours I had there (AS cancelled my flight, what a shocker) I only saw a few DLs, I think a 763 and 752 or something. Well for Portland's sake I hope DL stays. Where would they go, SLC? Or SEA? LAX and SFO are so crowded and lots of competition.
Also does anyone know what the biggest airlines at PDX are. I know AS/QX, DL and UA are, but in what order. Thanks...
 
Peter
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:26 am

That's too bad. I hope it doesn't happen. I think that Delta could still make Portland into a good hub. Just add alot of Asian and domestic flights and I think that it would be a good hub.

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto

 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:27 am

Delta is always full from 12 to 1 one day i went there and ther was about 5,000 people jammed in concourse c
i hope someone buys the gate space.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:34 am

If DL leaves PDX, I can't believe someone else won't try to come in -- the city begs for a hub.

PDX has high-tech (Intel, IBM, just to name a few), major ties with Asia and the US East Coast, a highly educated (and wealthy) population, and a great facility that's exceptionally under capacity.

I think it's ridiculous for DL to be making this move. In my opinion, DL has always under-utilized PDX. Rather than being a refueling stop, they need to make it a full-fledged hub for the west coast. DL isn't serious about SLC, and apparently they're not serious about PDX.

So who else would it be?

UA - Good move, but how much west-coast capacity does an airline need?

CO - Would be great, but what about all that space between Cleveland and Portland?

AA - When have they ever been serious on the West coast?

NW - Possible, but they have a lot of presence already in SEA

WN - OK maybe, but they haven't really grown that much from PDX since the Morris Air days

US - Yeah, right

So who then? Such a sad thing to have happen...
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:37 am

I hear and think that all the asia flights will be moved to CVG. Much easier to make future route bids from city that has large feeder system.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7570
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:51 am

I think the long and short of it is that Portland is just not a good hub city. I know there was a post about this before, but Portland just does not have the growth that other markets have on the west coast. Though I would think it to be rather unwise for Delta to leave Salt Lake. SLC is a nice alternate to DEN, and it was the best part of the Western buyout.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
blink182
Posts: 5273
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 1999 3:09 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 7:52 am

if anything,delta should either stay in PDX or transfer the flights to DFW   seriously because I don't think cincinatti or salt lake city are big enough markets for international traffic,If I were delta I would make CVG a domestic hub and make SLC sort of a DFW,the market is big there,and there is a big population,I personally think PDX is a good place to have your asian flights. There is a market promised there and I think Delta should give PDX another chance.
I think AA might move in if Delta really decreases PDX service,AA would be good because they have a lot of focus cities and mini hubs on the west coast but the western most hub is DFW and that is about a three hour flight away from the west coast and AA could also compete with United out of PDX too.
blink182
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 8:00 am

I disagree with the argument that there's no potential for growth at PDX.

The Portland metro area has as many people as the Denver metro area, similar demographics, and the same if not better business mixes.

I agree that INS needs to be shaken up there, but DL's problem came from misutilizing PDX.

If they had their heart in it, PDX would be a great hub for them...
 
N960AS
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 8:11 am

Oh DL is big from 12-1, I see. I'm usually there in there 9-10 or 4-7. Also I almost always fly AS.
Nike is in Portland too. They must create a need for some travel.
Why would DL move flights to CVG, you can't really distribute passangers to the west coast.

Also AS/QX could expand at PDX. They are pretty big there now but they could always grow larger, although probably not now, with all their problems.
CO would be good and Houston is between PDX and CLE. I doubt UA, between DEN, SFO and LAX (even SEA) they are pretty big on the west. Yeah AA never really seems to care about the west, from PDX they just fly to DFW, ORD and SJC. I hope it is not WN, PDX could really use a larger carrier with more global or longer flights. Portland is such an underserved city I hope a new airline moves in if DL does leave.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:38 am

what about a cathay or sia or a other asian airline.
there is a nice area to expand on the west side.

And thanks for ponting out that we have alot of busniess around here the people in the other fourm were implying we were just a bunch of farmers with no technolagy but i guess they never went to hillsboro or beaverton.
 
Guest

What Domestic Routes Will They Cut

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:46 am

which domestic routes will delta stop flying to from pdx
 
maha
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:24 am

RE: What Domestic Routes Will They Cut

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:05 am

They'll probably stop ATL, JFK, LAX, CVG to name a few - basically all the Japan feeders from the East Coast I would imagine.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7570
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: What Domestic Routes Will They Cut

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:31 am

Better question... What flights other than to the hubs does DL have at PDX?
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
N960AS
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:56 am

Boeing in pdx, well sure Portland isn't a huge metropolis and I've been to hillsboro and beavorton but I thnk Portland is impressive. Lots of business and technology. Seems to be educated people and Powell's books...I hope PDX does get an airline that can use it as a hub.
 
nycank
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 6:47 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 1:24 pm

Flights from PDX that DL serves are - ATL,BOS,CVG,LAS,LAX,NGO,JFK,SLC,SFO,SEA,NRT,YVR

DL currently serves NRT from ATL. For any foriegn carrier to pick up the slack left by DLs PDX-NRT
PDX-NGO flights will have to have a code-share partner at PDX to disperse its pax.

One of the problems mentioned are the behaviour of the INS folks in PDX. I doubt there are enough O&D pax from Japan to warrant multiple US & foriegn carriers.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:07 pm

Delta has a respectable presence at SEA. With all of the renovations and expansion that are planned here through 2008 I wouldn't be surprised to see them expand their service to and through SEA in the future.

True, the weather sucks at times, but what major west coast airport doesen't have to contend with weather? Plus the new runway will give the "new" SEA a real kick in the pants.
 
ishky15
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue May 30, 2000 12:02 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:25 pm

Maybe CO could move in to PDX. I mean, are they really gonna put 250 or so RJs in LGA, EWR, CLE, and IAH? They could fly them to all those small communities in eastern Washington and Oregon and northern California. There's also that emphasis for a west coast hub.

If DL abandons the Japan routes from PDX, do they lose the rights to serve those cities? Can they transfer those flights to anpther city, or are they permanently for PDX? If they abandon those flights altogether, can another American carrier pick those up? If so, can they move them to another city.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:29 pm

If DL does leave PDX, I think any airline that wants to beef up its West Coast/trans-Pacific presence may seriously look at that airport.

The only airline that might be interested is CO; because CO is buying a fairly large fleet of 772ER's, CO could set up feeders from most of the western states (e.g., possible Continental Express operation?) into PDX for PDX-NRT and PDX-HKG flights using 772ER's. Given that CO is planning to buy a massive fleet of Embraer ERJ135/145 regional jets, my suggestion may not be so far-fetched.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5447
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:06 pm

You might be interested in reading what the local newspaper in Portland had to say (The Portland Oregonian):

Delta may ground PDX-Asia flights
 
nycank
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 6:47 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Wed Sep 06, 2000 11:01 pm

Here is another interesting backgrounder to put US-Japan Airroutes

http://www.bts.gov/ntl/data/jatww3-2matthews.pdf
 
ben88
Posts: 1037
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 4:49 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 12:49 am

"True, the weather sucks at times, but what major west coast airport doesen't have to contend with weather?"

LAX
 
johnboy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 1:16 am

Sorry, but I've never thought Portland made much sense as a DL hub. Just a bit too small. It might have the same demographics as Denver, but how many Asia flights do you see departing DIA everyday? And that being UA's second-largest hub! Not enough population surrounding it also.

It would be nice to hear CVG getting nonstop Asia service, as this is a hub into which DL has put forth effort. Possible Beijing nonstops, which would complement the Japan nonstops snatched from PDX. Possibly SEL flights in the future also. Lots of Japanese auto manufacturers in the surrounding states also (Toyota plant a mere 70 miles from CVG). Makes SO-O-O-O much more sense.
 
darrell
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 4:19 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:33 am

The Port of Portland spent ALOT of money to make DL happy. They practically built a new terminal for them at PDX. It's disturbing that a major airline would pull out of a city after so many Japan/Oregon business connections have been made as a result of DL being here. There are many Japanese companies in Beaverton/Hillsboro now that were built (in part) to PDX having nonstops to Asia. I hope DL stays...but if they don't; good riddance. A few years ago, PDX was in talks with China Airlines. You can bet those talks will resume if DL leaves. Korean Cargo flies to PDX. They might be interested. JAL also....We'll have to wait and see...By the way....Oregon is one of Japan's major tourist markets....3rd only to Hawaii and California.
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
papatango
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 1999 10:32 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:35 am

has anyone heard what came out of the 1345 pst meeting delta had in pdx with their employees ?
 
maha
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:03 am

It looks like they're moving NGO to LAX, NRT to JFK.
 
dadoftyler
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 4:16 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:06 am

It's official--DL is dropping PDX-NRT/NGO in favor of JFK-NRT (!) and LAX-NGO on 4/1/01. No word on domestic feed, but I seriously doubt if they keep any of it.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000906/ga_delta_f.html
 
darrell
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 1999 4:19 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:10 am

see ya Delta...your loss
those who have no vices have very few virtues
 
maha
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:24 am

BYE BYE PDX

Thu Sep 07, 2000 3:12 am


Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto

 
DeltaAir
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 4:41 am

Official.......

Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:24 am

Well its official now. There will be a lot of empty terminal space at PDX once this is all said and done with. The JFK flight was a surprise, but not unlikely, espically if Delta gets the rights to the new flights to China. These new flights mean that some more long range planes will need to be ordered soon, since the MD-11s will be out of here in 3-5 years tops. This move makes since and will enable Delta to go after the big boys.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:47 am

Well, DL passed up another golden opportunity, and frankly I don't think that another airline will come in right away. PDX will be awfully empty with that beautiful new Terminal... DL could have had itself a good presence in the Northwest but they gave up.

The only savior in the short term IMHO could be WN, and that wouldn't be as good as landing a "real" hub.

AS is a hub, but so what? They don't go anywhere...

I guess I should use my DL SkyMiles to PDX in a hurry...  
 
sn330
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:38 am

RayChuang is right. Continental should step in to fill the void with the large amount of regional jets. I would rather hope for AA, since that's my hometown airline but they have SJC. Continental definitely should think about using it as a regional hub, and maybe expanding it internationally to Asia once the hub is developed enough.
I knew it was gonna happen. It just doesn't make much sense to put Japan flights at city that only gets service from cities that already have Japan service.
 
maha
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:24 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:46 am

Why even keeping PDX as a "hub"? Seems like DL should just close down PDX altogether. Without any Asian flights, what purpose does PDX serve?
 
Peter
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:47 am

Delta's domestic flights at Portland will go from 12 cities, to 5. The 5 cities that stay are Atlanta, Cincinnati, Salt Lake City, DFW, and Seattle.
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:51 am

In fact, I won't be surprised within a few months Continental CEO Gordon Bethune will announce they will seriously inquire about setting up a West Coast hub operation at PDX.

The reasons are simple:

1. Despite all the grousing about "no growth" in the Portland, OR area, it -is- still Oregon's largest metropolitan area with many, many jobs. This gives CO an immediate base of passengers to service--and CO could easily advertise "why bother going through crowded Seattle or San Francisco when you can go through less-crowded Portland?"

2. Because CO has a massive order for Embraer regional jets, that means they could assign a number of them to fly from various states in the Pacific Northwest to the PDX hub without having to beg and plead with another local regional airline.

3. CO is getting a good number of long-range planes, including the all-important 777-200ER. CO could use them to fly from PDX to NRT, TPE, HKG, PEK, etc.

In short, DL may be making a -big- mistake in leaving PDX. With CO being the best-rated airline in the USA in many polls and rating services, they will be welcomed to PDX with very open arms.
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:01 am

If the largest airline in the world (pax wise) doesn't think PDX is worth it, why would any other airline?
 
N960AS
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:09 am

Well if CO moves in they code-share with AS, so that could be helpful to them. Plus NW is pretty big up at SEA. I hope someone fills the void.

Also LAX does have weather, FOG! Its not like SFO but LAX does get shut down because of fog, its right on the ocean.
 
debn
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 4:41 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:39 am

The fact is, Portland is not suitable for a regional hub. Why? There aren't just enough people in this area.
Geographically, pacific northwest is pretty big in size, but most people live in seattle and portland metro area. The rest is allmost empty. There aren't many small cities/towns around portland that can feed some traffic into PDX. And I don't think those farmers in bend or pendleton, care much about flying.
 
Trvlr
Posts: 4251
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2000 9:58 am

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:52 am

How often does LAX get shut down from fog? At SAN where I live it only happens maybe once every quarter of a year or so.

Aaron G.
 
Guest

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 7:00 am

They could use SEA and run the MD-11.

Alex
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:13 am

It's a pity DL is pulling out. I hope when staff numbers are reduced, I hope they will be re-assigned. I'm guessing DL's flight attendant base will be closed as a result.

Having transpacific flights out of PDX has been very good for the local economy, and I hope someone else takes up the slack.

As for being a hub, it's a possibility someone else like CO could move in. They are in need of a west coast presence somewhere to fill a hole in their route system. Size of city or population is not such a consideration for a hub, because the primary function for a hub is to take people from point A to hub B and then take them from hub B to point C. People who board flights from the hub are an added bonus.

I'm not sure moving the DL flight out of Seattle (if that's indeed what you meant Alex) would be viable either. SEA-NRT is already served by AA, UA (both with 777's) and NW (with 742's). I'm wondering if the market is big enough for another carrier on that route. Still, if there was room I'd like to see JL re-establish service, or even NH or even SQ (I know, dream on)

Charles
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
desertjets
Posts: 7570
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

Why Drop PDX-JFK?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:25 am

This is the part that confuses me, why are they dropping the service to Kennedy Airport and keeping a short hop to Seattle.

My understanding is that the non-stops from the smaller western cities to JFK was primarily to feed the trans-atlantic flights and it would seem would have decent O&D.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
desertjets
Posts: 7570
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Delta Canceling Japan Flights At Pdx?

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:30 am

As for who comes into fill DL's void is anyones guess. The problem with a city being a on coast is that it doesn't neccessarily make a great hub, unless you can make a lot of north-south traffic. I will have to agree with Debn about there not being much of a regional market there. With Horizon and UAExpress much of the cities are already covered well from PDX. While cities like Eugene would like more air service I'd think they'd want something else besides another RJ or turboprop to Portland. While there are a decent number of cities in that region to feed from they may not be suited to RJ service, unless you start flying into Idaho or Montana or Northern Cali. As much as I would like to be able to fly Continental from PHX or TUS to Oregon I doubt it will happen.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

Desert Jets Re. JFK

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:57 am

A look at DL's timetable on their web-site indicates the following flights from PDX to JFK:
DL 1970 Dep. PDX 1:00pm Arr. JFK 9:10pm NONSTOP connecting with Japanese flights (this flight disappears after 4/01)
DL 1068 Dep. PDX 6:20am PDX Arr. JFK 4:27pm ONE STOP via SEA connecting with transatlantic flights (this flight remains intact after 4/01)

Seems logical enough to me.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], blueflyer, carljanderson, CM767, Exabot [Bot], flyabr, Gasman, Gemuser, hummingbird, jwadsworth, malcolmtucker, mattDC5R, Okie, PJ01, PSU.DTW.SCE, qwerty, raedgar, SWADawg, withak, YYZflyboy and 402 guests