TP343
Topic Author
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 9:01 pm

JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:51 pm

Hello!

I've just read (the article is below) that a JAL 747 airliner with 377 on board suffered an engine desintegration (!) an hour ago right after the take off from Jakarta, Indonesia bound to Tokyo, Japan. The left exterior engine (no. 1) was the one involved in this incident and it happened in an altitude of 300m, right above the runway.

I've just searched in Yahoo! News but I couldn't find any mention to this incident.

Anyone has details or more news about it?

Regards,


TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.

The article:
"Motor de Boeing se desintegra em pleno vôo"

Quarta, 06 de setembro de 2000, 07h53min
Um Boeing 747 da Japan Airlines (JAL) com 377 pessoas a bordo, que partiu hoje de Jacarta em direção a Tóquio, teve de retornar, pois um de seus quatro motores se desintegrou logo depois da decolagem, informou o ministério japonês dos Transportes.

Os passageiros escutaram um ruído seco quando o motor número um, situado sob a asa esquerda, se desarticulou por um motivo ainda não determinado a cerca de 300 metros de altura, logo depois de o aparelho ter deixado a pista. Várias partes do motor se separaram.

Nenhum dos 377 passageiros e tripulantes foi ferido, e o avião conseguiu retornar ao aeroporto de Jacarta.
Copyright 2000 AFP

Source: Terra Networks and Agence France Presse.
 
tim
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 12:25 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 4:54 pm

Well I cant even read that article!
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 5:43 pm

Let me translate (Bear in mind I speak Spanish not Portugese, but I will try and translate anyway.)

Wednesday September 6th 2000, 07:53

"Engine of Boeing airplane disintergrates in flight"

"A Boeing 747 of Japan Airlinews with 377 passengers on board which departed Jakarta en route to Tokyo, was forced to return when one of the engines disintergrated, reports the Japanese Ministry of Transport."

"Passengers heard a noise as engine number one, situated on the left wing, slowed down for a moment at only 300m above the runway, then fell to the ground. (I THINK) Multiple pieces of the engine separated and fell to the ground."

"None of the 377 passengers were injured, and the plane consequently returned to the Jakarta Airport."

Source: Terra Networks and Agence France Presse.

Hope this helps!

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
Guest

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 6:21 pm

Was it a 747-400 with GE CF6 engines? I'm not surprised by this incident after the FAA ordered all US airlines to inspect CF6s manufactured before 1995 for cracks in the spools.
 
n949wp
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 3:45 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 8:11 pm

Does the incident occurred on the night of Sept. 5th? I've just checked JAL's flight schedules site http://www.cargo.jal.co.jp/FLT_DSPe.htm . It shows that flight JL726 originally scheduled to depart Jakarta (CGK) at 2330 on Sept. 5th has had a ship change, from JA8178 to JA8166 (both are 747-346 with PW JT9D-7R4G2 engines). Expected arrival time into NRT will be delayed by almost a full day.

Looks like it's JA8178 that'll be stuck at CGK for a while. It's not exactly a very good month for JAL's 747s. Last week, JA8161 (742) struck a lamp post while taxiing at Shanghai, taking out a chunk of its right wingtip (including the entire right outboard aileron).
 
D L X
Posts: 11699
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Tedski

Wed Sep 06, 2000 8:48 pm

TEDSKI, what is it with you and GE engines?
 
Guest

DLX

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:15 pm

Well, after what someone who use to work for GE told me about what their engineers knew about hidden problems with the engines makes me think twice about flying on aircraft powered by those engines.
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:23 pm

TEDSKI:

Why do you continue to show your ignorance by flaunting your bias again GE every time there is an engine failure?

Engines fail all the time, whether they are GE, RR, or PW.

In any case, the engine on this JAL aircraft was a Pratt & Whitney JT9D-7R4G2. So you are wrong again, my friend.
 
Guest

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:30 pm

I bet that P&W engine had a bird or seagull sucked into it which caused it to come apart.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 9:48 pm

What type of engine was on the KLM 747 that lost several large pieces on the beach after a bird strike on departure from LAX last week?
 
Guest

EyeSky

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:22 pm

It was a GE CF6-50 series.
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:28 pm

TEDSKI:

Okay, when it's a P&W engine it must be a birdstrike, but when it's a GE engine it's bad engineering.

Again your hypocrisy amazes me.

Let's wait for the accident report to come out before any judgments are made, okay?
 
Guest

AKelley728

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:50 pm

When I think of a GE CF6 engine, it reminds me of the United 232 Sioux City incident and the early 1970s incident where a National Airlines DC-10's CF6 engine on one of it's wings came apart inflight debris hitting the fuselage sucking a passenger out. And yes, I know about the incident where a P&W JT8D engine on a Delta MD-88 came apart inflight killing two people sitting near the engine. Maybe poor maintenance is to blame for all of these incidents where they don't follow the manufacturer's maintenance procedures.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:59 pm

Airline maintenance folks have long complained about how susceptible the GE engines are to FOD damage. Back in the mid 70's (while there was much debate going on surrounding the early DC-10 crashes and incidents) I saw an interesting comparison on FOD tolerance between the GE CF6 series and the RB-211 series. The RR engines could really take a good sized chunk thought their fans while the GE engines were quite easily damaged.

The changes that RR (somewhat unwillingly) had to put into the early RB-211 was what almost put them out of business. Maybe that is what makes them so tough ... ?
 
Guest

EyeSky

Wed Sep 06, 2000 11:43 pm

Maybe GE doesn't use heavy duty types of titanium on the fan blades to save on weight. I know that on the GE90 they have composite materials on the fan blades to save on weight.
 
EyeSky
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 4:52 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Wed Sep 06, 2000 11:52 pm

The RB-211 was originally designed with the same type of low weight composite fan blades. They found out during desert testing that sand abraded the blades and caused a dramatic loss in thrust. That was what led to the expensive redesign.

I'm not sure what GE did to avoid the same problems. I seem to recall something about a microscopic metal coating on the fan blades, but I could be wrong.

Anybody know?
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:46 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 4:55 am

This is the third such incident in such a short time. That incident at LAX, then Eva Air Cargo loses bits and pieces of engine while taking of at HKG and now it's a JAL jet losing engines. They happen to be all 747's. I wonder what's causing those break-ups as it doesn't seem to be an isolated case anymore.
 
TWA717_200
Posts: 1410
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 1999 3:51 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:42 am

Things seem to happen it 3s. Maybe this is the last of it for a while.
 
OH-LGA
Posts: 1253
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 1999 1:42 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 7:25 am

So TEDSKI:

With your bias against GE, I assume you will not be flying any of the following aircraft:

Boeing 737-300/400/500/600/700/800/900/
Boeing BBJ
Boeing 777-200X/300X
Airbus A319/320/321
Airbus A340
Canadair RJ 100/200/700/900
ERJ-170/190
728JET, 928JET
SF340

because the Boeing planes are all manufacured with CFM engines, a joint company of GE and Snecma of France (Concorde engines anyone?) and most orders for Airbus planes get the CFM56 series. Same for the other manufacturers. Geez, GE accumulated over 50% of engine orders for planes in the 1990's, I think that shows a bit of trust eh?

And oh yeah, Air Force One is powered by CF6 engines, if the US government feels safe placing their president on a plane with CF6 engines, I would feel safe flying any plane with GE/CFM International engines.

Moi,
Kai
Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
 
Guest

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 8:11 am

Anyone ever heard of lowest price. How else do you think GE gets the business. The lowest price meeting spec's almost always wins. Would love to see some PW/s hung from the 737NG series. Would be an awsome alternate choice from the anglo/french match-up.
 
D L X
Posts: 11699
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 11:00 am

Hey, TEDSKI, what breed were those engines on the Cathay jets that caused the fleet to be grounded? Throw in the RRs, and I guess you'll be taking the train, huh?
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

Evergreen NOT Eva Air!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:22 pm

It was a Evergreen 747 (USA) not a EVA Air 747 (Taiwan)

N754PR
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 2:32 pm

That would be the second Evergreen aircraft to shed an engine in flight.

There was one about 4 years ago up here in ANC that dropped an engine into the mudflats on takeoff. A couple of F-15's actually saw the thing come loose.

That flight was listed as a JAL flight since it was an JAL flight being flown by a chartered Evergreen one. That may be the same deal that is going on with the EVA air flight. But I don't know enough about that incident to saw for sure.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
Guest

OH-LGA

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:27 pm

To tell you the truth, I have flown on a CFM56 powered 737-300 & 400, CF-34 powered CRJ and CF6 powered 767-300.
 
Navion
Posts: 1055
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Tedski Apology

Thu Sep 07, 2000 5:31 pm

TEDSKI, you jumped all over GE for the Gulf Air A320 crash recently, and now (as Aviation Week Online is reporting this morning) it turns out the engines WERE WORKING PERFECTLY. Seems you're really full of it!!!! You did lambaste GE for that crash when initial reports said there was an engine problem. Now you say (in the post before this) that you fly CFM powered aircraft. Given all of the PW surge problems and the RR Trent groundings (twice on A330's) I still believe your GE attitude is sorely misplaced.
 
Guest

Navion

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:00 pm

Hey Navion, at least engine surge problems are not as severe as an engine coming apart inflight like the GE CF6 engine did on United 232 and in the early 70s on that National Airlines DC-10 where a passenger was sucked out!
 
User avatar
sammyk
Posts: 1560
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 1999 11:31 am

RE: N754pr & Evergreen

Thu Sep 07, 2000 6:47 pm

Actually EVA Air is owned by the Evergreen Group of Taiwan, but you're right, there is an Evergreen International based here in the United States. A cargo company. I don't think there is a connection, there might be, or might have been.

Sammy
 
akelley728
Posts: 1968
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 1999 12:35 pm

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 7:18 pm

TEDSKI:

In the National Airlines' crash the aircraft's no.1 engine exploded after overspeeding caused by the crew's experimenting with the auto-throttle system.

In the United Airlines' crash, the NTSB determined that "the probable cause of this accident was the inadequate consideration given to human factors limitations in the inspection and quality control procedures used by United Airlines' engine overhaul facility which resulted in the failure to detect a fatigue crack originating from a previously undetected metallurgical defect located in a critical area of the stage 1 fan disk." Side note: the fan disk was built by VOLVO in Sweden.

So TEDSKI, in both cases it was human error, not necessarily a problem with the GE CF6. In the Sioux City case with the metallurgical defect, that could've happened to any fan disk, any engine, any airplane.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: JAL 747 Engine Desintegrates As Of The Take Off!

Thu Sep 07, 2000 7:46 pm

Just a quick correction.... (sorry to knitpick) but the National Airlines DC-10 incident involved the No.3 engine... not the No.1.

As to the original topic, it's about a JAL 747 and now we're all arguing about what types of engine power DC-10s? Weird.


FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



N 8 6 3 D A
 
TP343
Topic Author
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun May 23, 1999 9:01 pm

RE: Is It True? And A Note To N949WP.

Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:28 am

Hello!

First of all, thank you for all the inputs made here.

However, nobody actually confirmed the incident! Not even searching in Yahoo! News and here in the airliners.net news section I could find mentions about it!

What's wrong? Is the information given by the AFP/Terra Networks' article inaccurate?

Regards,


TP343, São Paulo, Brazil.


P.S.: N949WP (About the time): The incident presumely occured in the second half of the afternoon (local time: 5pm?) of September 6th, hence, begining of the morning here (7am) in São Paulo, late of the night (3-6am) in the USA.
 
n949wp
Posts: 1398
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2000 3:45 pm

To TP343

Fri Sep 08, 2000 7:37 am

From the JAL online flight schedule, the departure/arrival information for flight JL726 on Sept. 5th looks like this:

Dep Denpasar (DPS) Sept. 5 21:43
Arr Jakarta (CGK) Sept. 5 22:14
Dep Jakarta (CGK) Sept. 6 22:48
Arr Tokyo (NRT) Sept. 7 07:58

JL726 is the only daily flight JAL has from Jakarta to Tokyo. Base on the huge delay in the departure from CGK to NRT, I'd say the incident occurred on the night of the 5th.

'949

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos