777gk
Topic Author
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 5:56 pm

I was not impressed today while browsing through photographs of Delta's 767-400ER's.



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Photo © Ryan Gaddis

No PTV's like CO


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Photo © Ryan Gaddis

No BizElite

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Photo © Winston Whitlock

Not to mention no legroom (1st Class!)

Compared with what will be CO...


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Photo © Craig Murray

Coach Class


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Photo © Craig Murray

BusinessFirst

DL is NOTHING!

 
Guest

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 6:19 pm


Wow, these CO pics really look great. Looks like DL is a little behind !!!
Will CO use the 764 on Northatlantic routes ?? I think that'd be the perfect configuration for a longhaul. 2-3-2 in coach. Very nice.


B737-700
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 6:21 pm

First off, Delta's 767-400s and Continental's 767-400s are going to perform very different tasks.

The CO version will do transatlantic (cash-rich and high-competition) routes that are long and high-paying.

Delta's aircraft are NOT primarily going to be long-haul aircraft... the only long-haul route will be Hawaii - and Hawaii is notorious for being a non-profit route as people usually use Frequent Flyer Miles to get there, so no major airline uses transoceanic equipment for the Hawaii flights as it would not pay to do so... AA operates special DC-10s with 40" first class seats, same with UA, and Hawaiian, and Delta. No United First, no American First Suite, no BusinessElite. And this applies to all the major carriers. (I must confess I am not sure about the CO HI routes.) Delta's aircraft will be used primarily for flights to cities like Ft. Lauderdale - effectively up and down the east coast and occasionally trans-cons to LAX etc. (and of course the Hawaii ones) The aircraft will NOT be flown to London / Rio etc. Who needs a PTV on these routes? And PTVs are VERY overrated anyway. Ever heard of a good book? On a two hour flight to Ft. Lauderdale you don't need 60" of space, and you don't need PTVs in Coach.
Besides, the way that BusinessElite works, if you had BusinessElite in the aircraft, the fares would be around $4500 - a non-flexible price for a totally flexible ticket. Delta does not offer ANY discounted seats in BusinessElite on any of their official routes. The only ones where they do are the 777s & MD-11s running to Florida in the midst of their transatlantic services. If I was either to pay $4500 for a return in BusinessElite, and $1300 for a standard First Class, I would take the standard First Class! And this is the mentality of the general flying public too.

In CO service however, the aircraft will be flying DC-10 routes, to London, Rio, Paris etc. - a very different purpose for an airliner, with a whole different market structure. The aircraft will have far less cycles on their books than the Delta version in ten years time.

And secondly, the aircraft about that you call a CO aircraft is actually a DELTA aircraft that has been mocked-up in BOEING'S configuration for the world Tour. The First Class seats are NOT Continental's BusinessFirst product, altho they are remarkably similar. The Coach seats however, I conceed, are CO seats. But this aircraft will eventually end up in service refurbished with DELTA. And the Continental configuration may vary.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



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777gk
Topic Author
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 6:57 pm

The seats that were said to be Continental ARE Continental's! The CO BusinessFirst configuration is to be 2-1-2 and 2-3-2 in coach on 767-400s. N863DA, I would not have posted that if I wasn't 100% sure that it was a Continental seat. The bottom line is, the CO 767-400ER experience is going to be much better than the one on DL.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:17 pm

Yes, CO's 764s are nicer than DL's, but as stated in the previous post, they will serve very different markets. DL ordered them to replace their remaining L1011s which now only fly domestically. They will be used on low-yield routes to FLA and Hawaii. Very different to CO's intentions.
 
Guest

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:02 pm

777gk, for USA domestic use only the DL 767-400 is very nice. It is not to be used for international service period. All of DL's 767's are purchased in the ETOPs configuration for flexibility. Some go into international service with BusinessElite and others Ships 1700 and up go into domestic configuration. The plan is if international growth is needed then a ER can be pulled from domestic service and reconfigured for International service. Also the 767-400er/767-300er in domestic interior configuration will fly Atlanta - Anchorage and Atlanta - Honolulu, no trouble with wieght restirctions and all the freight they can carry. So, you see 777gk their is a reason for the difference between DL's domestic 767-400 and CO's international 767-400.
 
Airbus A3XX
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:07 pm

777gk,
The photos that you mentioned to be Continental's is acutally Boeing's demostration aricraft which would be delivered to Delta later
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:18 pm

Airbus A3XX... LOL!!! you are right! Those pictures are the 764 that Boeing has... That is going to be delivered to Delta! HAHAHA!!! N863DA, VERY well said! You are so right! Continental "need to get a life". Just my personal opinion... CO sucks! CO will never come close to being as good as Delta!

LMAO!!!!!

     
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:42 pm

LOL!!! All of these are from a Delta plane....



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Craig Murray



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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt




Okay... all of these pictures are from a Boeing owned 764... guess who owns the plane now... DELTA!!  

Delta is NOT behind! k?!  
 
777gk
Topic Author
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:53 pm

For the last time, those seats were loaned to Boeing from Continental. I'm not some 13-year-old kid trying to stir up an argument, I am just trying to prove that our 767-400ERs are better to fly on than DL's, and that's it.
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:28 pm

Is there really this much childish bitching between airline executives (and the airlines as a whole) about "our planes are more comfortable than your planes!!"?? Because, if so, I would like to know now before I get into the industry and I can shift to Aviation Journalism right now.

You're comparing apples with oranges. It's like (in fact exactly the same as) saying that the JAL 747SRs are less comfortable than those of the Sultan of Oman. D'uh! They serve wholly different purposes. One flies routes of less than an hour with 500+ people in, the other carries 50 people for 18 hours. NOT EXACTLY THE SAME THING, ARE THEY?!?!?

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



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Delta777-XXX
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:32 pm

                             
 
sv11
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 1999 6:26 am

More Info

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:33 pm

I am looking at two press releases:
1.http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000831/wa_boeing_.html
This one says Continental's 767-400 seats 235, 200 in coach and 35 in BusinessFirst.
2. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000829/wa_boeing__2.html
This one says Delta's seats 287 passengers in two classes: 36 in first and 251 in economy.

Since Delta and Continental seem to have the same first class seats, I wonder how Delta put a lot more economy seats in. Maybe they have less leg room?

sv11
 
Delta777-XXX
Posts: 940
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2000 3:50 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:39 pm

Sv11...

Did you just totatly not read what N863DA said?! If you read it... you'd see why! My point exactly... another CO person!

 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:45 pm

Let's just reiterate the whole point just incase some people don't understand.

The Delta configuration offers 36 DOMESTIC First Class passengers at 6-abreast at a 40" seat pitch, and 251 Economy Class passengers at 7-abreast at a 32" seat pitch. 36 seats / 6 abreast is 6 rows, at 40" pitch each, therefore 240" of front-to-back space being required, resulting in 180" more space to put in extra coach seating at 32" pitch.

The Continental configuration offers 35 TRANSOCEANIC BusinessFirst passengers at 5-abreast at a 58" seat pitch, and 200 Economy Class passengers at 7-abreast at a 32" seat pitch. Now 35/5 is 7, so CO has 7 rows at 58" each... resulting in roughly 420" of front-to-back space being required. - hence less space for Coach Class passengers, hence less Coach Class passengers.

Do the math, y'all!

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



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N863DA
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:55 pm

And for what it's worth, if Delta did set up their 767-400ERs in a BusinessElite / Economy configuration, you would end up with

48 BusinessElite at six-abreast in the front cabin ahead of doors 2L & 2R, at a 60" pitch, and 201 Economy Class passengers located behind doors 2R and 2L. For a grand total of 249 seats, the difference because of the 6- and not 5-abreast seating in the DL BUsinessElite section. There. Now we are comparing like for like.

Admittedly, the 5-abreast compared to 6-abreast Premium section makes a difference in capacity, but the net result would mean that Coach Class passengers would have exactly the same amount of space on both airlines, (and because you all seem so neurotic about them, every passenger would even have a PTV!!!!) and Delta BusinessElite passengers would have more space front-to-back but slightly less from side-to-side, with most of the slack being taken out of the aisles.

FLY DELTA JETS and sail UNITED STATES LINES



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fanoftristars
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RE: DL's 764's

Sat Sep 09, 2000 11:29 pm

My favorite pictures are the ones that show the A330-340 cross section. I didn't realize that the side cut in so much and that the overhead bins were so low on the A330-340. These 764s with the new interiors are great, PTV's or no!
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
Guest

RE: DL's 764's

Sun Sep 10, 2000 2:06 am

You guys really have to get a life!
 
Adam84
Posts: 1368
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: DL's 764's

Sun Sep 10, 2000 5:51 am

CO does have BizFirst on their Hawaii services, The Hawaii and Guam planes have 282 seats, and the non-hawaii planes have 242 cause they have more bizfirst seats.

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