Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2036
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Will Lufthansa Ever Fly To Yul?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:02 pm

I think there is great need for another flight to FRA from YUL. Think about it, only 2 daily flights with AC and they are using 767s! That's horrible, they should be using A340s, if not, I think Lufthansa should start flights here, they are one of the biggest airlines on the planet and I think they should now focus on flying to Montreal-Dorval. Our city is booming and I don't think there will be another referendum in Quebec for a long time. So, what do you think?
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Will Lufthansa Ever Fly To Yul?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:08 pm

As long as AC and Lufthansa are members of the Star Alliance and they flight from FRA-YUL is a code-share using the AC A340, I don't think Lufthansa will fly to YUL. Plus, I don't think there is the demand for flight to Frankfurt from YUL like there is to Paris for example (with 3 sometimes 4 flights a day), so Lufthansa probably wouldn't add a flight in addition to AC's. GUess we'll have to wait and find out
-wes
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Frankfurt-Calgary?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:18 pm

Hello,

About the LH/AC cooperation:

Is that true that both airlines operate FRA-Calgary in summer under code-share agreement with an A340-300 please?

Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Frankfurt-Calgary?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:24 pm

No, YYC is operated only by AC's 340's. YVR is operated only by LH's 340's. In years past LH flew into Calgary, but that was when they were partners with CP. I believe they used 747's on that route at the time, but it's been some time since LH left, the last time I remember seeing them at YYC was around '92 or so.

I believe that the YUL-FRA route is currently one daily 330 on AC. But don't forget that the charter airlines also offer flights to German destinations...

As far as LH to YUL, perhaps, but really there's no reason why they have to. LH and AC are partners, they share flights, it doesn't really matter which one operates the route in terms of their ability to serve it.
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

AC183

Sat Sep 09, 2000 9:29 pm

Hello AC183,

Were the LH operations regular in the early 1990s, under the code-share (?) of CP?

What about the more recent YYC-FRA flights? Only during summer?

Would you have the frequence per week please?

Thank you,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: AC183

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:01 pm

YYC-FRA is currently an Air Canada operated year-round A340 daily route.

I'm not 100% sure about whether it was CP code-share, but I do remember that CP had some sort of partnership with LH at the time (before they went to BA), so I think it was a code-share. It was twice weekly 747's, I believe. The route actually ran from sometime in the late 70's, I believe, until LH pulled out in the '90's. After that AC and LH formed a partnership, and AC added YYC-FRA and code-shares on LH's YVR service (AC had previously flown YEG-FRA, which is no longer in operation although Edmonton is trying to get European service back).
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

Yeg?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:16 pm

Hello,

So YYC-FRA started in summer 1997 or so, isn't it? I assume it must be thrice weekly or so, isn't it?

What is YEG please?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
LH423
Posts: 5869
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: Will Lufthansa Ever Fly To Yul?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:19 pm

Lufthansa used to fly to Montréal-Mirabel using, I believe, A310s. I reacall seeing pictures of this flight, but I have no info on this flight.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Yeg?

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:20 pm

I don't remember for sure when YYC-FRA started, but it's 7X weekly.

YEG (Edmonton) hasn't have FRA flights for a few years now. AC gradually transitioned them over to YYC.
 
Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2036
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

Stop!

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:23 pm

Guys, stop talking about YYC and YEG. I don't know if you noticed, but the title of this message says "Will Lufthansa ever fly to YUL?", so stop posting things on YEG and YYC please.

Thank you.
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

YMX-FRA

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:24 pm

Hello,

Thank you for these pieces of information LH423 and AC183.

I'll try to contact Lufthansa to know more about the FRA-YMX route.

Was the A340-300 operating the YEG-FRA route please?

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

PS: Please have a look at "European airlines @ Nagoya", it also envolves stories of LH A340  
 
Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2036
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: YMX-FRA

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:26 pm

No, Lufthansa never flew to YEG or YYC.

Please stop with the YYC and YEG questions.

Thank you.
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Stop!

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:30 pm

I rather though the YYC and YVR route sharing was relevant to YUL's potential for LH. Sorry.

To briefly answer the question of AFa340-300E, the YEG-FRA route was L-1011-500 service, and I believe it was operated by 767's for a while after the 1011's were retired.
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

FRA-YUL This Time

Sat Sep 09, 2000 10:38 pm

Hello,

Sorry Noise about 'diverting' a bit.

YUL is indeed an attractive market as you stated, however in spite of the alliance AC-LH, there's hardly the same traffic on FRA-YUL and CDG-YUL for example. The latter benefits from the 'French link' (people in Montreal speak French and this added to the fame of the beautiful landscapes in France makes the difference).

Apparently, for now Lufthansa has still some long-haul routes where they need additional capacity (the much discussed new US destination, the additional frequencies on NGO, ...), and Air Canada's code-share seems to satify them, at least for now.

Hope this helps,

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

PS: AC183, could you please contact me? My e-mail is on my profile.
 
Noise
Topic Author
Posts: 2036
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: FRA-YUL This Time

Sat Sep 09, 2000 11:03 pm

But since AC and LH are parters, LH should use their own aircraft because they wouldn't have to be afraid of competition. Why would an AC be in competition with LH if they are both Star Alliance parters. Well, they would, LH could use their own aircraft. They would get money out of it.

What do you think.
 
AFa340-300E
Posts: 2115
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: FRA-YUL

Sat Sep 09, 2000 11:12 pm

Hello Noise,

That's not sure. In a way Air France is also present on FRA-YUL, via CDG. That means that Air France could lower a bit its fares to prevent Lufthansa from accessing the market and taking up a part of their connection traffic.

Also, if the FRA-YUL market has a certain size, adding extra capacities would flood it and bring fares down (in order to keep reasonable load factors). That's not interesting, even more when you have the opportunity to put your aircraft on another, more profitable route.

Best regards,
Alain Mengus
 
Louis
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 6:53 am

You Guys Have It Wrong!

Sun Sep 10, 2000 1:03 am

Sorry for diverting once again. Ok, Lufthansa used to operate in Calgary about 10-12 years ago. It was on their FRA-YYC-YVR route and they used the DC-10. It was flown about 2X a week. This route was stopped about 9 years ago when CP and LH started codesharing. The Vancouver route was made non-stop with 747's. I don't remember the specific details, but I do recall having a LH timetable about 12 years ago that listed that specific routing.
 
C-GRYK
Posts: 728
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 4:55 am

Noise

Sun Sep 10, 2000 2:12 am

You don't really seem to understand the way the AC/LH partnership works... Lufthansa can sell a ticket on the AC flight and still make money, albeit without operating their own a/c therefore saving quite a bit. The question you seem to be getting at is "I want to see Lufthansa planes in Montreal because they are something different to spot." Well, I doubt that's going to happen... AC already provides the flights and Lufthansa flies a daily 744 already into Toronto, meaning a rather easy connection to Montreal, or an offer to take the AC flight direct from FRA-YUL... So, although I know you want to see Lufthansa in YUL (hey, we want Swissair, Sabena, and RAM in Toronto so...) it doesn't look likely unless LH and AC break ties with each other or the Star Alliance... Also, it could be a question of Lufthansa not wanting to go through the process of negitiating slots into YUL and using a valuable FRA slot when AC already has both...
Think before you type!
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

RE: FRA-YUL

Sun Sep 10, 2000 8:12 am

I think I mentioned it before, but I'll say it again: charter carriers are very big in the Montreal market. With Dorval handling around 9 million pax, Mirabel handles just charters and serves another 1.5 million or so pax. When you consider that Dorval's traffic is Canada/US/overseas flights, then Mirabel's share of overseas passengers is pretty significant. In terms of price, and in terms of choice of destinations in Europe, Air Transat and Canada3000 and Royal, as well as Corsair and others are very significant in the Montreal market, although frequency is admittedly not terribly high on any one route.

Noise, just to tie in the YYC/YEG/YVR flights into the YUL discussion, the point is merely that AC/LH share their YYC and YVR flights, as well as their YYZ and YUL flights, and they try to start routes with the idea of complementing each others network, not duplicating it. Also, as to LH going to YUL: rumour has it that Edmonton Airports has some interest from 'a major European carrier to start flights to Frankfurt.' That's not a particularly new rumour, and it is strictly rumour, but FWIW it could affect YUL's chances at a LH route, for better or worse.

Louis, I'd swear to seeing a LH 747 at YYC as late as '92 or '93. I'd have to go through a lot of stuff to find it, but I've got a Calgary Airport flight guide from that time period (after Calgary Airports Authority took over responsibility for the facility from Transport Canada) that lists LH as serving YYC, so LH did fly the route up until 7 or 8 years ago at least...

Alain, I'll get around to e-mailing you later, hopefully within a day or two, don't mind my procrastination at the moment  

Regards,

Matt

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