airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 3:17 pm

A few weeks ago, someone inquired about the different ways to seat 9 people abreast. I checked some of my timetables and seating charts, and here are my findings:
I checked out DC10, MD11, 777, Ilyushin86, Ilyushin96, Airbus widebodies and TriStars. All these can seat 9, TriStar 10. However, Airbusses usually have 8, and TriStar with 10 is an exception.
(I don´t include Airbusses with 2-4-2, that´s too normal to be mentioned here.)

Aeroflot: 3-3-3 on both IL86 and IL96;
Air France: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Alitalia: 2-4-2 on DC10 (!), 2-4-3 on MD11;
British Airways: 2-5-2 on DC10, 3-3-3 on 777;
Cathay Pacific: 3-4-3 on TriStar;
Condor: 3-3-3 on A310, 3-4-3 on DC10 (!);
Continental: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Finnair: 3-3-3 on A300, 3-4-3 on all DC10 and some MD11 (!), 2-5-2 on some MD11;
Hapag-Lloyd: 3-3-3 on A310;
Iberia: 2-5-2 on DC10;
KLM: 2-5-2 on DC10, 2-4-2 on MD11 (!);
LTU: 3-4-3 on both TriStar and MD11 (but only 2-4-2 on A330!);
Lufthansa: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Sabena: 2-5-2 on DC10;
Swissair: 3-4-2 on MD11;
TWA: 2-5-2 on TriStar;
United: 2-5-2 on both DC10 and 777.

Daniel
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 4:54 pm

Thanks! This is very informative. I would never fly on a DC 10, MD 11, 777, L1011 with 10 abreast or an Airbus with 9. I find even 9 in 10/11/777 or 8 in 330/340 to cramped. I dream about the 1970ies when Swissair only had a 2-4-2 seating in its DC 10.
In my opinion all economy classes of all airlines are horrible regarding seat width and legroom.
 
megatop
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 5:05 pm

Thanks a lot !

Very good information !

Back in 1979, I was on a B747-200 from Northwest Orient, now Northwest, with 2-4-3. Nice space.

But I have also been on a DC10-30 from Finnair, 3-4-3. I will never do that again on a intencontinental flight, Helsinki - Bangkok.

 
n175dz
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 5:16 pm

Great info!

If I may, can I add a couple...

BA have some 777's (I think it's 5) with 3-4-3 seating! (I know that's 10, but thought it was worth a mention)

Continental have 3-3-3 on their 777's.

Delta have 2-5-2 on Tri-star's, MD-11 and 777's (shame!)

2-5-2 seating is only fun if you get all 5 to yourself (never happens!!!)

cheers, Phil.
 
AC_A340
Posts: 2196
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 1999 12:01 pm

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 5:30 pm

Royal has 3-3-3 on their A310's.
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

A310 & A300 9 Abreast?

Tue Sep 12, 2000 6:24 pm

I've flown on CSA's A310-300 and Finnair's A300B4, and neither had 9-abreast seating. CSA and Aeroflot (the only interiors I'v seen of A310s) have 767-style 2-3-2 seating, and Finnair's A300 had 2-4-2. I can't imagine 9 abreast on either of those planes - the A310 is narrower than the A300! That would be hellaciously uncomfortable!
 
ZRH
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Ilyushin96M

Tue Sep 12, 2000 7:09 pm

To Ilyushin96M: the diameter of fuslage of the A 310 and 300 is the same. They only differ in length.
But you are right, I can not imagine an A 300/310/330/340 (all the same fuselage diameter) with 9 abreast. It must be hell, like 10 abreats on a DC 10, MD 11 or 777.
 
killjoy
Posts: 601
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 6:00 am

Correction

Tue Sep 12, 2000 7:49 pm

This isn't anything major, but Finnair has moved at least some MD-11's to a 3-4-2-configuration (or was it 2-4-3, whatever...).

Much better than the awful 2-5-2, although so far I've been lucky enough not to fly in a plane configured like that. I can imagine what the middle seat would feel like, though...

BTW, I've been in one with 3-4-3 seating (HEL-JFK) and I don't think 10 abreast is *that* bad. Legroom is more important IMHO. (Note that I usually have the window-seat, so I might not have noticed some of the problems associated with that config).

Finnair also doesn't have DC-10's or A300's anymore, but I guess you knew that and just posted stats on old planes too. (Speaking of which, who cares if they cramped those busses, they were used for charter-flights   )
 
JumboClassic
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 4:37 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Tue Sep 12, 2000 7:54 pm

Here is one for you:

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Matthew Lee


Doesn't look too bad.

To Ilyushin96M:
I have never heard of 2-3-2 seating on an A310. I 've just checked on www.aeroflot.ru and they show 2-4-2 in economy (only the last 5 rows are 2-3-2 where the fuselage gets narrower) and 2-3-2 in business. Great web site by the way. Since you can read russian, I 'm sure you will appreciate it.
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

That Explains It...

Tue Sep 12, 2000 8:27 pm

Hehehe. The pictures Aeroflot typically shows of its cabin interiors are NOT economy, but business class. So that explains why I only ever saw pictures of 2-3-2 seating on Aeroflot A310-300s.
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 2:56 am

My SU timetable (eff. 30 Oct. 94) even shows 3-3-3 on IL86 Business! 2-4-2 on IL96 Business, but that´s not great, either.
I don´t have so much problems with 2-5-2 either, because, like Killjoy, you´ll find me in the window seat, and I prefer one neighbour over two  
Being tall above average but not wide above average, I concur that legroom is more important...
I´ve indeed flown on Condor´s A310 with 3-3-3, yes it exists, yes it´s quite cramped, but, yes, it´s survivable  
Thanks, Phil, for the info; these are the carriers who don´t put seating charts in their timetables.
No need to dream about SR´s 2-4-2 on 70s DC10, ZRH: KLM CURRENTLY have 2-4-2 on MD11  
Finnair: in 94, they had MD11 with 2-5-2/318, 3-4-3/372, 3-4-3/407;
since 95 (with my last timetable eff. 25 Oct. 98): 2-5-2/309 (to JFK, BKK/SIN, NRT, KIX, PEK), 3-4-3/362 (to JFK, MIA, YYZ, SFO, BKK/SIN, PEK); 3-4-3/397 (to BKK).
Megatop, a 747 with 9 abreast sounds just great!

Daniel
 
Ilyushin96M
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 3:15 am

Aeroflot "Business Class"

Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:04 am

Unlike most Western carriers, Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all. The difference between business class and coach seats on IL86 and IL96 is...non-existent. The "new" business class on TU134 and TU154 actually uses something like a first class seat, and to my knowledge, that is mirrored in the first class section aboard the IL widebodies. That would explain the 3-3-3 layout in business class on the IL86. The service is much better, but the seats are the same from cabin to cabin.

I understand Aeroflot is planning on spending quite a bit of money to have modern cabin interiors fitted to its Russian aircraft. Maybe we will see IL86s and IL96s with PTVs, not to mention some ambiance in their cabins.
 
USAirways737
Posts: 986
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 7:20 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:24 am

I don't get why some people are thinking 10 seats per row in a 777 is bad! The seats are the same exact width, 17in. as in other aircraft in normal seating arrangement(except itself in a different seating arrangement).
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:33 am

KLM doesnt have a 2-4-2 arrangement. It is 2-4-3 as you can see in these pictures!

Click for large version
Click here for full size photo!

Photo © Miguel Snoep




Avion
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 3:41 am

Uh oh, didn´t take long to destroy my credibility (no offence taken, just kidding); if anyone else discovers a mistake, feel free to correct me, I hope it´s the only one, though...
Daniel
 
Guest

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 6:49 am

Lauda and Emirates has 3-4-3 seating arrangement in their B777. Just wondered why so many people still praise Emirates B777 so much.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 1:48 pm

USAirways737: 10 abreast in a 777 is hell! Also 9 abreast in a MD 11 is to much. All economy classes in our days are uncomfortable regarding seat width and legroom. If I can afford I don't fly economy, it is worse than a cattle carrier.
 
RIX
Posts: 1589
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Wed Sep 13, 2000 8:12 pm

"Aeroflot's Russian planes have only two classes: business and coach. On some of the widebodies serving international destinations, SU has a first class section, but not on all." - that is not correct: I flew at least twice on Aeroflot Soviet-built narrowbodies, Il62M (CDG-SVO, 1991, Business) and Tu154M (EVN-SVO, this May, First) which had all three classes. Yes, business class seats there were the same as economy, with much more legroom and much better service. One more detail: during Soviet time on domestic flights there were no first or business, only economy, with service level comparable to, say, AA domestic economy, but with no meal choice.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6877
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: 9 Abreast Seating

Thu Sep 14, 2000 6:40 am

Delta has 2-5-2 seating on its' 777, MD-11, and L-1011. Personally, I prefer the 3-3-3. American is also 2-5-2 on its 777, DC-10, and MD-11

Jeff