airmale
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Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 12, 2000 3:29 pm

with most countries opting for single major carriers, shouldnt the same be done in India, just might strengthen AI to face competition both locally and abroad.
.....up there with the best!
 
jaysit
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 12, 2000 11:31 pm

That would be too logical.
But for that to happen, two large, inefficient, generally corrupt, and bloated government sector entities would have to be merged with the usual layoffs and streamlining that goes with the process. You just can't do that in India given its draconian labor laws.

Also, that would mean fleet rationalization which is a concept that is only now being addressed. Plus, Indian is based in Delhi (with all the usual connections to the government) and Air India is based in Bombay.

The airlines could merge, thus allowing for seamless connections to all parts of India. Make Bombay and Delhi hubs for intra-India and International East-West and north-south traffic to compete with foreign carriers. But that would also mean building new terminals in Bombay and Delhi (currently the International and domestic terminals are miles apart).
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Wed Sep 13, 2000 7:41 am

This has been discussed many times, but is unlikely to ever happen as long as AI and IC remain even quasi-governmental entities.

One prime reason for this is pay-scales. AI crew are paid tremendously better than IC crew (and in US dollars to boot). AI crew would never take a pay cut, and if IC crew were brought up to parity, it would be economic suicide.

A better system than a merger would be co-ordinated scheduling, etc... This has been in place (theoretically) for many years now. However, as long as the terminals remain 15 mins apart from each other, it is but a pipe dream as far as effectiveness goes.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
airmale
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Wed Sep 13, 2000 2:46 pm

id read once in the news that there enough traffic on the Karachi-Mumbai sector to facilitate 747 services, is that true? is the political aspect affecting such a service?
.....up there with the best!
 
jaysit
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Wed Sep 13, 2000 6:55 pm

I think that India-Pakistan could be the source of scores of daily flights if the political situation were ever resolved. The Bollywood industry alone could export millions of dollars of film stock to Pakistan if trade policies would allow that.

I believe that 10 years ago, PIA operated a daily A300, IC operated a near daily A300, and several european airlines and PanAm operated Bom-KHI services which did very well.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
thud
Posts: 202
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Thu Sep 14, 2000 8:48 pm

I know PIA flys almost thrice weekly between Lahore and Delhi but do IA return the compliment? I remember seeing HS748's in IA's colours in the 70's!! It used to take off, fly circles over Lahore to gain height and then whizz of towards the border.
 
airmale
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Thu Sep 14, 2000 9:11 pm

i think more airlines should be allowed to operate between the two countries.
.....up there with the best!
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 2:54 am

WHo wants to get hijacked! With these Pakis u never know!
 
jaysit
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 3:33 am

Damning a whole country just because of the activities of a few people isn't befitting of this board. Currently India does more non-petroleum related trade with Iran than it does with Pakistan, partly because of restrictive trade barriers (primarily imposed by Pakistan) between the two countries. Over the past few years, this trade has dropped off even more. Since traffic on air routes closely follows trade patterns, I am not surprised at the drop-off in India-PK traffic.

Of course, the perceptions in India of poor security levels in Pakistan combined with a fear that potential hijackers are in cahoots with the military and/or the Afghan taliban doesn't help any. Apparently security concerns for western carriers is the driving factor for suspension of flights into pakistan. The only airlines lacking those concerns are the Arab carriers and Swissair (self-anointed neutral country).
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 12:24 pm

Jaysit - I strongly believe that AI/IC have very valid reasons to avoid flying to Pakistan. Sadly, IC is forced into it, but AI won't touch it with a bargepole.

A few years ago, an AI 744 en route BOM-LHR had to divert to KHI to offload a pax in cardiac arrest. I spoke to the captain about the experience, and he told me that although the Pakistani ground personnel were very professional, he would not let anyone other that the medics on board and could not wait to get the aircraft off the ground.

AI has very specific procedures to be followed in the event of a hijacking to Pakistan (as opposed to hijackings elsewhere). As long as the countries remain mortal enemies, a valid atmosphere of distrust will always permeate the air and inhibit regular operations.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
IndianGuy
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 4:36 pm

When i said 'Pakis' I meant the Pakistani Politicians and the Satanic Pakistan Army. These guys are total fanatics. These guys are almost sub-human, if i may use that term.

I have read books on the hijackings of 3 Indian Airlines hijackings, and the behaviour of these Pakis during these crises shows their fanaticism. Remember how the Pak army blew up an IC fokker in 1971, AFTER the hijackers had surrendered? Remember how they behaved when another IC A300 was hijacked to Kandahar?

I wouldnt want our airlines to fly to Pak.
 
nycank
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 6:47 pm

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 6:52 pm

Indianguy: What has that got to do with the "topic"   - The merger

If any Govt., makes it difficult to protect
other country's property - i.e aircraft,
then the insurance costs for flying into that country rise
multi-fold. Which forces the airline to evaluate
the bottom-line on the route.

 
airmale
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 8:49 pm

this was the last time ive discussed anything related to india.
.....up there with the best!
 
Guest

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 9:51 pm

why are you so touchy, the topic is about merging air india and indian airlines not the political aspects of the two countries.
 
jaysit
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Fri Sep 15, 2000 11:05 pm

Lets not use the term "pakis," OK?
Its a pejorative that's equally applied to everyone from the subcontinent, and has precious little to do with aviation.
As far as Indo-Pak. tensions are concerned, volumes have been written about it. It is obvious that the lack of trade, flights, etc between the two countries are a result of the political imbroglio, but each year thousands resist the political ramifications and make the trip across the border to meet with loved ones, etc. It is sad that these trips become fewer in number as the older generation dies off.

When I visited Pakistan for the first time (flying PanAm), I was a bit tense, but was lucky to get a rather kindly customs & immigration official at Karachi airport who ushered me in and allayed any fears I may have had. However, the mostly Indian cabin crew on that flight stated unequivocally that they had horror stories galore concerning Pakistani airport personnel, and so Pan Am stopped crew layovers in Karachi.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
IndianGuy
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Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Sat Sep 16, 2000 1:07 am

Jeeez! Some people can get so touchy!

It was Airmale who bought up the topic of traffic bet. India-Pak.

I am trying to prove that they are other forces at play here.
 
thud
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 12:22 am

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Mon Sep 18, 2000 2:14 am

The word 'Paki' is extremely derogatory, on par with 'Nigger'. My friend Sunil had the crap beaten out of him by a bunch of thugs, and fact that he was Indian did'nt really matter to these morons. I suppose I am touchy as Sunil, a real extrovert is now scared of leaving his house and is off work.

I maybe off to India this winter, probably landing at Indira Gandhi airport. What's it like, and what happened to Palam
 
jaysit
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Mon Sep 18, 2000 7:33 am

Palams' the domestic terminal.
IG International handles international traffic only.
Like other airports run by the IAAI, it's somewhere between abysmal and merely satisfactory, depending on when you get in. Its a damn sight better than International Terminal 1 at bombay, although I hear that the Air India terminal 2 at Bombay is much better - I've never used that one.

Last year, a 10 yr old kid got sucked into a malfunctioning escalator at Delhi International and the authorities had no clue what to do. A passenger eventually called the medics on her cell phone. This caused a big broo ha ha in the Indian press. It appears that the Indian government that runs IAAI (badly - as it does everything else) has decided to auction off management rights of the airports to the private sector - or something to that effect. The divestment plans change in both scope and design every week. Sean (747-437B) probably knows more about it.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Guest

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Mon Sep 18, 2000 9:14 pm

hey thud, so youre pakistani also great i thought airmale was the only other one here, well i agree with you the term Paki is extremele derogatory can compare it Japs foe japanese, its considered really rude by them too, and jayasit theres news that Pakistani airports are also to be privatised , but again that keeps changing too.


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Pakistania
 
thud
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 19, 2000 2:01 am

Jaysit,
That rather tragic incident made it into every newspaper I think.

I understand teh IAF also operates out of Palam?
 
thud
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 12:22 am

RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 19, 2000 2:13 am

Pakistania,
Thanks for your kind regards.
 
jaysit
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 19, 2000 3:03 am

Palam and IGI have the same runaways, taxiways, etc. The terminals are just situated miles apart from each other, much like the CDG1 and 2 at Paris.

I guess the IAF operates out of Palam. I saw a few An-25 transport carriers at Delhi, although the fog was so thick, it could have been a giant turtle for all you know.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Shouldnt Air India & Indian Airlines Be Merged

Tue Sep 19, 2000 11:16 am

I haven't flown out of IGI in over a year, so I really can't comment on that. However, the new AI Terminal in Mumbai (Terminal II-C) is quite spectacular. I especially liked the new Maharaja lounge there which is the equal of ANY lounge in the world.

As of right now, any privatization is stalled bigtime until there is a proper evaluation of the assets of AI and IC.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada